The Clefairy line are supposed to be Japanese moon fairies Ala Princess Kaguya, and potentially also the moon rabbit based on the ears. Also Clefable's Japanese name is literally Pixie. The moon never had any sort of specific association with Psychic. Moonlight was a Normal move.
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Unpopular opinions
- Thread starter antemortem
- Start date
Theres no type more contrived to me than dark honestly.
I think Dark is the most clear non-elemental type in the game because it's just a bunch of edgy monsters and mean moves. The only contrived part to me is that the English localizers were cowards and decided to call it Dark rather than Evil. I guess also that it's weak to Bug but that's more of a specific cultural context and reference from Japanese being completely lost in other languages.
You'd think it's just the pink version of Shadow Claw or Night Slash but no, Psycho Cut is specifically a projectile attack. It doesn't make contact and it's always depicted as blades of psychic energy being launched at the opponent.
It's actually really simple - It's evil is the wrestling sense adapted to animals, a dirty fighter who will pull out every underhanded trick in the book to win.
Well i say contrived because the whole "evil" thing is kinda a misnomer since this is the same series that also preaches up and down that "no pokemon is truely evil", but more so because the type cant seem to decide if its based on shadow-y moves, general ninja or trickster skills or just flat out "im gonna beat you up so badly your mother won't reconize you" moves. The pokemon themselves dont really help in this regard either.
(how the hell is Arbok, the pokemon that "binds and poisons the frightened victim" Gyarados a pokemon that "has an extremely aggressive nature" less dark than absol a pokemon thats basically a weatherman that no one likes.)
I feel like at this point, because of the level of power a lot of Psychic types are at combined with the devs sheer lack of desire to straight up nerf them, such as Calyrex and NDM, they'd have an easier time adding in a bunch of new attacks and abilities to help buff the weaker Psychic type mons.
Like alot of weaker Psychic types would love to have access to Psycho Boost, an actually good physical attack, or a Freeze dry equivalent for dealing with Steel or Dark types.
Could add in some new abilities to counter Psychic types weakness, like an ability that gives a passive Miracle Eye effect or a resistance to Bug or Ghost types.
Like alot of weaker Psychic types would love to have access to Psycho Boost, an actually good physical attack, or a Freeze dry equivalent for dealing with Steel or Dark types.
Could add in some new abilities to counter Psychic types weakness, like an ability that gives a passive Miracle Eye effect or a resistance to Bug or Ghost types.
I think the idea is that the user is still using their bodies to 'throw' the attack at their opponent vs straight up slashing the target like with Slash or Night Slash
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Also Cresselia, which really should have been updated to at least part Fairy so it actually has a good matchup against Darkrai.
a certain villainous kraken would love this pls game freak
I do agree that game freak is very weird about giving new types to old pokemon, lots of pokemon that shouldve been made dark or fairy that just werent
Cress not being part Fairy I assume was a balancing decision.
But just to change topics before someone brings up luxuray..
I think STAB should be removed from the games.
I think STAB should be removed from the games.
for any VGC knowers was Cress very strong in Gen 4-6 VGC because I don't know if it being Psychic/Fairy would've made it broken or not
I think another issue regarding Psychic's capabilities stems from its intended offensive role: generally speaking, Psychic types are meant to be the trapmasters of Pokemon. You look through the pool of Psychic moves, a lot of their best tools are built around set-ups. Moves like Psyshock, Psychic Noise and Future Sight are specifically designed to disrupt enemy options and bypass potential answers in ways nothing else can (barring some signature moves). You also see this is in a lot of the type's status moves, as Psychic puts a particular emphasis on sacrificing turns to make your allies more threatening. Unfortunately, this emphasis means that Psychic types nowadays are innately harder to use than most other types.
When you give people the choice between high execution set-ups or a powerhouse that can just blow through the opponent, most people will naturally gravitate towards the latter. The easier a Pokemon is to use, the easier it is to get optimal usage out of it. It also doesn't help that Psychic is lacking certain traits to make optimal use of this strategy. Compare it to Dark, the other type that leans a lot into this style of gameplay: Dark has a better defensive profile overall and its offensive tools are more immediately threatening (meaning you don't have to rely on getting a 1-2 punch as much).
Psychic Terrain + Expanding Force is the one obvious exception, granting VGC Psychics an option for ungabunga offense. But while it’s good for Psychic to have this option, I would be disappointed if Psychic leans more in this direction. Normal and Dragon already fill the roll of “brute force offense” since they need high power options to make up for not scoring SE hits; pushing Psychic into this role would diminish the type’s identity. Paradoxically, I fear stuff like EForce and Calyrex might actually hurt Psychic as a whole by being good enough that Game Freak doesn’t think the type needs any buffs.
When you give people the choice between high execution set-ups or a powerhouse that can just blow through the opponent, most people will naturally gravitate towards the latter. The easier a Pokemon is to use, the easier it is to get optimal usage out of it. It also doesn't help that Psychic is lacking certain traits to make optimal use of this strategy. Compare it to Dark, the other type that leans a lot into this style of gameplay: Dark has a better defensive profile overall and its offensive tools are more immediately threatening (meaning you don't have to rely on getting a 1-2 punch as much).
Psychic Terrain + Expanding Force is the one obvious exception, granting VGC Psychics an option for ungabunga offense. But while it’s good for Psychic to have this option, I would be disappointed if Psychic leans more in this direction. Normal and Dragon already fill the roll of “brute force offense” since they need high power options to make up for not scoring SE hits; pushing Psychic into this role would diminish the type’s identity. Paradoxically, I fear stuff like EForce and Calyrex might actually hurt Psychic as a whole by being good enough that Game Freak doesn’t think the type needs any buffs.
Imo, the only types in need of a buff are Ice and Bug. Psychic may be on par with them as a type, but Psychic Pokemon are just so much better than Bug and Ice Pokemon. Look at OU, UU, RU, and probably the rest of the usage based tiers and you'll see that Psychic has a respectable presence, where Bug and Ice usually don't. It just doesn't really matter that Psychic is a weak type for Smogon tiers. And in game it doesn't really matter either.
Why?
I mean, the flaws with Ice and Bug mostly come from how Gamefreak like to build them rather than an inherent issue with the types themselves. Whenever they actually build Ice types like they do other offensive types like Fire and Electric (at least decently fast and strong in one attack stat) they're generally good, the problem is that they like building Ice types as slow, "bulky", mixed attackers or sometimes as just worse Rock types.
Bugs are more hampered by the fact that 90% of them are made deliberately bad on purpose, and any Bugs lucky enough to not get saddled with a BST lower than a mid-stage starter tends to do pretty well in competitive, at least in their original gen.
yea actually now that you mention it that is backwards isnt it. hm.
I think the bug discussion on here is very fair. There are good bugs, but they'd all benefit from NOT being bugs lol. However I would say there is at least one other significant bug attack-bug buzz.
Sub can be annoying, esp with leech seed(looking at 4x bug weak wo chien.) ofc that can tera(ugh,) and there are non weak leeches sometimes like whim and steela, but it's a reasonable move imo.
Edit: love frosmoth, but the type no bueno. Ice is in with bug for issues. I do like ice for sheer cold immunity. In some ways, depending on meta ofc, that's worth more than all bug gets. Yeah bad defensive type, but you're better off eating a big hit than an instant ohko risk with some bulky ices.
Cress was one of the best Trick Room setters in the game, if not the best. It's the C in CHALK.
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I think it's both, and the fact that the types suck limits GF's design space. Ice really only has one good archetype and Bug, like Psychic, requires that the Pokemon be above average in terms of stats/movepool/etc. in order to perform well. The difference between Bug and Psychic, as you say, is that Bugs are designed to be weak. Make more Bugs like they make Psychics and the problem goes away. The same can't really be said for Ice though, because it's essentially limited to a glass cannon role. Buffing the types would be the most effective way to give them more of a presence.
Side note, if they buff Bug and Ice, Grass would absolutely need a buff too, since it's already borderline and is weak to both of those types.
Its hard to explain but Stab feels like more of a hinderance then a benefit since because of how good a 50% atk buff is just for being the same type as the attack, it limits a pokemons options for what they can do in battle or how well they can do their job. (Thats not even mentioning how it gives dual types a general advantage.)
Removing STAB does literally nothing to address this. A system without STAB would put more emphasis on the defensive aspects of a Pokémon's typing, and the best defensive Pokémon are either dual-typed or fat pink blobs.
I think the reason Bug might not have been buffed and is considered one of the worst types (if not the worst) is that maybe it isn't so popular that GF would care about it. I believe they have earned the reputation of being the early-mon that you would always ditch after the warm-up, and unless there has been a major voice about it, it might not change.
For example, Thundurus (Incarnate) form in VGC was a menace, as its Prankster ability gave it the opportunity to spam Thunder Wave + Swagger against its opponents in Gen 5 (didn't help that electric mons were not immune to Paralysis), and that Thundurus was fast and strong. It wouldn't be a coincidence that GF nerfed him by reducing the accuracy to 90%, paralysis speed drop was halved, and Dark Types were immune to status moves set by Prankster. Or how in Gen 5, dragons were a problem since they were too powerful via Outrage + Draco Meteor, and that it had super effective coverage to deal with the frail ice types or passive steel types. That's why GF also dropped the Fairy types to combat the overwhelming fairies. Not saying the changes were perfect: Thundurus' viability in VGC dropped, and that Fairy types may be too powerful (i.e, Xerneas), but the point is to show how Pokémon can be buffed/nerfed if it becomes a problem.
And that's where the problems with bugs are, because I believe they aren't that popular:
Compared to other weak types like Rock and Poison, they get buffed (at least in theory), as the former gets a special defense boost in Sandstorm, whereas the latter are one of the few types that can resist Fairy attacks, get a near-exclusive move in Toxic (and never miss), and absorb Toxic Spikes.
I think if GF wants to buff bug Pokémon, the casual fandom (not competitive, sadly) would need to care about them more. They don't necessarily have to be as popular as Lucario, Charizard, or Mewtwo, but at least popular enough that GF could buff them.
For example, Thundurus (Incarnate) form in VGC was a menace, as its Prankster ability gave it the opportunity to spam Thunder Wave + Swagger against its opponents in Gen 5 (didn't help that electric mons were not immune to Paralysis), and that Thundurus was fast and strong. It wouldn't be a coincidence that GF nerfed him by reducing the accuracy to 90%, paralysis speed drop was halved, and Dark Types were immune to status moves set by Prankster. Or how in Gen 5, dragons were a problem since they were too powerful via Outrage + Draco Meteor, and that it had super effective coverage to deal with the frail ice types or passive steel types. That's why GF also dropped the Fairy types to combat the overwhelming fairies. Not saying the changes were perfect: Thundurus' viability in VGC dropped, and that Fairy types may be too powerful (i.e, Xerneas), but the point is to show how Pokémon can be buffed/nerfed if it becomes a problem.
And that's where the problems with bugs are, because I believe they aren't that popular:
- Pinsir and Scyther - Cool-looking single-stage bugs in Gen 1, but unfortunately, they don't even get a Bug-type move.
- Scizor - One of the most unique Pokémon due to its Steel/Bug typing, but I feel it's more remembered for being a Steel type due to how new the type was and Bullet Punch.
- Heracross - Perhaps not as popular, but it's known for its friendly nature and is a counterpart to Pinsir.
- Ledian - Is a joke
- Shedinja - At least it's unique for its ability - Wonder Guard?
- Volcarona - The Ace Pokémon of Alder, the Unova Champion. However, it might be known more for its fire type, due to how its Pokedex mentions its closeness to the Sun.
- Golisopod - Definitely a popular bug type thanks to ya boi Guzma
Compared to other weak types like Rock and Poison, they get buffed (at least in theory), as the former gets a special defense boost in Sandstorm, whereas the latter are one of the few types that can resist Fairy attacks, get a near-exclusive move in Toxic (and never miss), and absorb Toxic Spikes.
I think if GF wants to buff bug Pokémon, the casual fandom (not competitive, sadly) would need to care about them more. They don't necessarily have to be as popular as Lucario, Charizard, or Mewtwo, but at least popular enough that GF could buff them.
Ice not resisting Flying and Ground is bullshit. Not resisting Dragon even more bullshit. Just having the boon to resist Ground and Dragon would be amazing. Though I can see it harming Flying in practice...
Honestly Flying is in a rough position. Grass and Bug aren't offensive powerhouses to worry about Defensively, and Electric/Rock are common enough to where Flying defensively isn't that good
Honestly Flying is in a rough position. Grass and Bug aren't offensive powerhouses to worry about Defensively, and Electric/Rock are common enough to where Flying defensively isn't that good
I kind of like that Flying is weighted enough towards offense that it can simultaneously be a great help to some mons while also being a needed limitation of others based on movepool differences. If anything, it's a little disappointing that the gimmick mechanics often just end up giving Landorus/Salamence/Gyarados/etc. better Flying STAB.