Metagame Revelationmons [Leader's Choice!]

[NotZzephyr]

the only two things i actually would say are close to banworthy right now are gliscor (sd + flying facade + dark/ground knock on hazstack) and kingdra (water hurricane), everything else feels a lot more reasonable in comparison. you could MAYBE add skewda to that list too but it feels a lot worse this gen in comparison to kingdra thanks to alo, dozo, wellspring, and friends existing and having competition from hisuian samurott.

yeah you could maybe add skewda to the list

 

[Clas]

in my defense it's been a year i also keep forgetting we hit darkrai

and basculegion but that was moreso because of adapt ghost dedge, honestly we could maybe test it in the future after the meta settles a bit more

 

[Ceph]

if youre going to just complain without saying anything and then show one of the worst teams ive seen in this meta for 5/6 replays how am i meant to get anything from this other than "skill issue".

• i havent seen a single sun build succeed after we banned harc. sun isnt bad rn but noone's "broken it open" yet and i highly doubt we'll see anything like it because hisuian arcanine was the only unanswerable sun mon without using hippowdon.
• rain is on the internal watchlist and honestly we might see action on it, most likely on kingdra.
• dozo isn't going, its ting-lu but its utility is unaware instead of ruination + hazards + ww. same with zama-c, honestly that mon is probably worse than base zama right now and im not exaggerating because body press is on everyone's minds rn.
• sp/ptrip users arent really even good outside of corv and thats not hard to deny if you have a well-built team (it takes ages to get going and is just worse than bpress against every team bar dozo stall), one of the replays even showed scale shot krookodile sweeping almost instantly. that shouldnt be sweeping, its not a good mon.
• entei is not on the same level as harc.

ill get a threatlist and answers list up soon, hopefully by the 10th but it might be a little late. ill also make a teamdump of the most recent builds ive used, but the only two things i actually would say are close to banworthy right now are gliscor (sd + flying facade + dark/ground knock on hazstack) and kingdra (water hurricane), everything else feels a lot more reasonable in comparison. you could MAYBE add skewda to that list too but it feels a lot worse this gen in comparison to kingdra thanks to alo, dozo, wellspring, and friends existing and having competition from hisuian samurott no we banned it im stupid lmao no wonder i never saw it.

What're your thoughts on sand teams? if I may ask.

 

[Clas]

What're your thoughts on sand teams? if I may ask.

I havent seen a single sand team succeed, and I even tried using sand myself before just coming to the conclusion that it isn't great. Sand Veil being legal is an oversight that I should put in a fix for tonight, but outside of cheese bs it's just not good. Excadrill isn't "bad" per se but really needs Magnezone AND Smooth Rock to actually put up the numbers worthy of using Sand, and it still just struggles into Dondozo and Alomomola.

If anything I find Sand as an anti-weather and/or fat chip archetype a lot stronger, especially with offensive Tyranitar (I prefer CB). Hippowdon is decent right now but suffers from a lack of good non-Ground moves, so it's only currently worth using on teams that specifically need its utility.

 

[DragonLordDX]

Here’s my thoughts on the Metagame

• Sun is not a problem ,I’m trying my hardest to make a nuke so powerful that the meta crumbles but the omnipresence of Rain has halted efforts.

• Rain is kinda dumb, I thought Blissey would have handled Kingdra but BOOM, Wave Crash, so what do i know

• Can we plz get rid of Gliscor?

• Zama - C is a battering ram that’s only really checked by unaware mons in which case it’s hard walled but this is mostly a problem with Body Press, so I’ll let u decide on it.

And that’s just bout it, Pretty much nothing else seems too problematic, ik it’s annoying to see an Entei clicking Espeed and u being helpless to stop it (i’ve been there) but I don’t think it warrants a ban, it has to run Band to do anything which leaves it to get battered by rocks.

 

[Actual Scum]

Ok so new month of revmons.
I'm gonna be real, the banning of HArc hasn't felt very impactful to the way i play sun. Entei hits stupidly hard too and it's immune to Intimidate to boot. I haven't played against rain much but having Wake/Scream as a crutch usually means Kingdra has to think about what it clicks. Personally i think both weathers are kinda dumb and should be tested (preferrably rain first)

 

[AintTellingUNothing]

I see this set mainly being used to counterlead against Araquanid Webs to put them into backfoot positions immediately or just straight up sweep Turn 1

just realized that w screens this would go even crazier lmao

 

[AintTellingUNothing]

K so testes this w screens and not as powerful as I thought it would be, but that mainly comes down to the fact that i suck at playing screen teams.
That being said, here is the team and some of my fav sets
Gyarados @ Loaded Dice
Ability: Moxie
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Waterfall
- Scale Shot
- Earthquake
- Dragon Dance

Gholdengo @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Good as Gold
Tera Type: Steel
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Psyshock
- Make It Rain
- Dazzling Gleam
- Trick

Bellibolt @ Light Clay
Ability: Static
Tera Type: Electric
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Light Screen
- Reflect
- Slack Off
- Volt Switch

Primeape @ Eviolite
Ability: Defiant
Tera Type: Fighting
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Rage Fist
- Shadow Claw
- Bulk Up
- Stealth Rock

Ceruledge @ Focus Sash
Ability: Weak Armor
Tera Type: Fire
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Shadow Sneak
- Bitter Blade
- Close Combat
- Swords Dance

Electrode-Hisui @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Soundproof
Tera Type: Electric
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Chlor
oblast
- Thunderbolt
- Volt Switch
- Thunder Wave

I think my fav sets here are Ceru and Gyarados, both who snowball teams

 

[PrincessGardevoir]

Revelationmons is pretty fun (when I'm not getting hit with Defiant Kingambit or shit like switcheroo Utility Umbrella Grimmsnarl like what on earth) and I was first messing with TR, but Rain's a bit more fun. Been trying to experiment with some mons I haven't seen talked about much in this thread, namely basically all of my favorite Paradox mons.

Set

Raging Bolt @ Booster Energy
Ability: Protosynthesis
Tera Type: Electric
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 20 Atk
- Thunderclap
- Thunderbolt
- Weather Ball
- Calm Mind

Basically the same as his OU counterpart, but I appreciate the use of Thunderbolt as Dragon STAB with a para chance, and Weather Ball as a fun tool to poke things like Landorus or Excadrill that can come in on Thunderclap. Good set of resistances and solid bulk into the Extreme Speeders and rain cores, it just hates the existence of Grounds that have 0 fear when rain isn't up.

Set

Walking Wake @ Choice Specs
Ability: Protosynthesis
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 244 SpA / 12 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Hydro Steam
- Hurricane
- Flip Turn
- Flamethrower / Hydro Pump

Comedically, I think Wake's much more useful in Revmons than OU, simply because a secondary STAB with good base power that doesn't drop its special attack by 2 stages is a lot more useful than first glance. Hurricane sucks into Sun teams, but I slot in Flamethrower as the last moveslot for running into them. The twice I've run into Gastrodons, Specs Hurricane does a comedic amount of damage to even the most specially defensive ones.
244 SpA Choice Specs Walking Wake [Dragon] Hurricane vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Gastrodon: 213-252 (50 - 59.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
I'm reading a lot about Kingdra being a problem, and I'm sure it is with Swift Swim, but there's just something so perfect about specs Wake 2HKOing what should be a genuinely solid answer to it, y'know?

Set

Slither Wing @ Booster Energy / Life Orb
Ability: Protosynthesis
Tera Type: Bug
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Acrobatics / Earthquake
- Close Combat / Acrobatics
- Flame Charge
- Bulk Up / Morning Sun / First Impression

I so, so, SO badly want this thing to actually work, but I can never find time to get it going with the Acrobatics setup variant. As the only physically offensive Acrobatics Protosynthesis or Quark Drive mon not banished to the netherworld for its sins () it's the only one who can turn 1 without any setup immediately pop that 110 base power drawbackless STAB... and it just never gets the time to click Flame Charge or Bulk Up to actually show its strengths. Acrobatics is really, REALLY strong on it if it ever gets in, the problem is getting in when there's so much weather, scarfers, Landorus-Therian, and Extreme Speed fire types going around.
If nothing else, Fimp is a great tool to have here.

Set

Drednaw @ White Herb
Ability: Strong Jaw
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Crunch
- Earthquake
- Ice Fang
- Shell Smash

Behold, ye almighty, and cower before the funniest mon in the format. Sporting a quad resistance to Fire, passable physical bulk and access to Strong Jaw STAB rain-boosted Shell Smash-boosted Crunch, basically the only things without anything to fear are Dondozo and Gastrodon (who still doesn't like eating a +2 Ice Fang.) Well, and Raging Bolt, or Extreme Speed Lucario/Regieleki. Or... Well, you get the picture. Drednaw is extremely funny on the off chance it manages to actually set up, but like Slither Wing, it never will find the opportunity to do it unless your opponent hands it to you on a silver platter.
+2 252+ Atk Strong Jaw Drednaw [Water] Crunch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Iron Hands in Rain: 553-652 (108 - 127.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
I'm morally obligated to use Drednaw in every OM I can, as he's in my top mons of all time, and while he's very bad, he's also very funny.

 

[Clas]

Ok so new month of revmons.
I'm gonna be real, the banning of HArc hasn't felt very impactful to the way i play sun. Entei hits stupidly hard too and it's immune to Intimidate to boot. I haven't played against rain much but having Wake/Scream as a crutch usually means Kingdra has to think about what it clicks. Personally i think both weathers are kinda dumb and should be tested (preferrably rain first)

The big thing with Entei is that you can actually answer it if you just consider the Sun matchup in builder without much issue, whereas HArc on Sun only had Hippowdon and Dondozo as answers (and Dozo can quickly lose over time). Glad there's still success in the archetype, I'll try to make my own build work before I start commenting on Sun's current placement as broken or not.

 

[InkyDarkBird]

After peaking at #3 not using a "skill issue" team, my opinions remain unchanged.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/...36669197-ul345dhebx4cb39em1yefbstyv06p7qpw?p2

https://pokepast.es/20264bfb6617566d

I don't see how you can "consider the Sun matchup in builder without much issue" when you also have to account for Rain, the usage of Ogerpon-Wellspring allowing easy switch-ins into Alomomola and Donbozo, and the high usage of Iron Treads and decent usage of Landorus-Therian making using Toxapex somewhat risky. I use Pecharunt and Amoonguss as my walls because the power level of this format is so ridiculous that you need 2 physical walls on a balance team, and they can decently wall Donbozo, Ogerpon-Wellspring, Urshifu-Rapid-Strike, Gyarados, Salamence, and various other sweepers/wallbreakers. However, this comes at the cost of having an absolutely terrible matchup into Sun and IronPress Taunt Corviknight, since both Pecharunt and Amoonguss get destroyed by a Choice Banded Sun-boosted Entei, threatened by a Sun-boosted Body Press Torkoal, easily get set up on by Corviknight, allow easy switch-ins for Gholdengo, and allow sweeps by Webs Ceruledge.

252+ Atk Choice Band Entei Sacred Fire vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Pecharunt in Sun: 190-225 (50 - 59.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
248+ Def Torkoal Body Press vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Pecharunt in Sun: 118-139 (31 - 36.5%) -- 64.7% chance to 3HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Ceruledge Bitter Blade vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Pecharunt: 195-229 (51.3 - 60.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

If I drop Pecharunt, I lose a strong Ghost Foul Player and the bulkiest defensive Pokemon in this format.
If I drop Amoonguss for a Water wall, I lose Sleep (broken status), Toxic, Poison Foul Play, a safe matchup into Ogerpon-Wellspring, and a neutral matchup to Ground on my team if I use Toxapex.
If I drop Urshifu, I lose my only check to Zamazenta-Crowned and my primary wallbreaker.
If I drop Iron Treads, I drop Rapid Spin and Ground Megahorn.
If I drop Iron Valiant, I lose speed control and strong Fairy/Fighting STAB.
If I drop Slowking-Galar, I lose to special wallbreakers like Thundurus-Therian, Gholdengo, and Raging Bolt.

My Rain matchup is far better now, but at the cost of what? Completely losing to Sun?

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9revelationmons-2436953512-05amgtdbpd6g9axcu0hx7d7buj1u388pw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/...36701447-qqme4uepag27ijuteggplkxpl8v6vhppw?p2
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9revelationmons-2436665684
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9revelationmons-2436087891
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/...36581639-5e7f9vxoa3y1aog5ojy5ymmt28sqyqupw?p2

 

[Clas]

After peaking at #3 not using a "skill issue" team, my opinions remain unchanged.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/...36669197-ul345dhebx4cb39em1yefbstyv06p7qpw?p2

View attachment 769536

https://pokepast.es/20264bfb6617566d

I don't see how you can "consider the Sun matchup in builder without much issue" when you also have to account for Rain, the usage of Ogerpon-Wellspring allowing easy switch-ins into Alomomola and Donbozo, and the high usage of Iron Treads and decent usage of Landorus-Therian making using Toxapex somewhat risky. I use Pecharunt and Amoonguss as my walls because the power level of this format is so ridiculous that you need 2 physical walls on a balance team, and they can decently wall Donbozo, Ogerpon-Wellspring, Urshifu-Rapid-Strike, Gyarados, Salamence, and various other sweepers/wallbreakers. However, this comes at the cost of having an absolutely terrible matchup into Sun and IronPress Taunt Corviknight, since both Pecharunt and Amoonguss get destroyed by a Choice Banded Sun-boosted Entei, threatened by a Sun-boosted Body Press Torkoal, easily get set up on by Corviknight, allow easy switch-ins for Gholdengo, and allow sweeps by Webs Ceruledge.

252+ Atk Choice Band Entei Sacred Fire vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Pecharunt in Sun: 190-225 (50 - 59.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
248+ Def Torkoal Body Press vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Pecharunt in Sun: 118-139 (31 - 36.5%) -- 64.7% chance to 3HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Ceruledge Bitter Blade vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Pecharunt: 195-229 (51.3 - 60.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

If I drop Pecharunt, I lose a strong Ghost Foul Player and the bulkiest defensive Pokemon in this format.
If I drop Amoonguss for a Water wall, I lose Sleep (broken status), Toxic, Poison Foul Play, a safe matchup into Ogerpon-Wellspring, and a neutral matchup to Ground on my team if I use Toxapex.
If I drop Urshifu, I lose my only check to Zamazenta-Crowned and my primary wallbreaker.
If I drop Iron Treads, I drop Rapid Spin and Ground Megahorn.
If I drop Iron Valiant, I lose speed control and strong Fairy/Fighting STAB.
If I drop Slowking-Galar, I lose to special wallbreakers like Thundurus-Therian, Gholdengo, and Raging Bolt.

My Rain matchup is far better now, but at the cost of what? Completely losing to Sun?

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9revelationmons-2436953512-05amgtdbpd6g9axcu0hx7d7buj1u388pw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/...36701447-qqme4uepag27ijuteggplkxpl8v6vhppw?p2
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9revelationmons-2436665684
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9revelationmons-2436087891
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/...36581639-5e7f9vxoa3y1aog5ojy5ymmt28sqyqupw?p2

I went through this team with Inky on Discord and the changes I suggested were flipping the moves over on Pecha to now OHKO Wellspring and threaten Ghold, 248hp/244def/16+spd Slowking over Glowking, 180hp 76atk Rock Stone Edge Ting-Lu over Amoonguss, and then Fairy CC + Dark Knock + SD Encore Jolly IVal. WBall Electrics are still annoying but the bad matchups are significantly more playable now.

Paste for reference, Slowking's Future Sight is always Psychic but this gives the option for Slowking to use Water or Psychic Scald, although Psychic Scald is generally worse here IMO. Ting-Lu can run any of the 3 listed moves and be fine, I prefer Sand Tomb myself but WW and Ruination are fine too.

 

[PrincessGardevoir]

For those of you struggling to build and ladder, I'm here to offer a handful of sample teams for you to use that I've been harassing the ladder with! With my help, I hope more of you can reach the 1300s and beyond by abusing powerful offense. Enjoy laddering this month!
(click the row of mons to get the Pokepaste)



Rain feat. Specs Walking Wake, Water Quick Attack Ogerpon, and two wallbreakers in CM Rbolt and Booster 4 attacks Iron Hands. Easily my most tested team, and my favorite. Comes with a lot of slashed moveset options if you want variety.


Sun feat. CB Entei, Specs Wake, and Balloon Raging Bolt. Hatterene serves as a pivot, and Treads can get rid of Samurott-Hisui spikes or be an emergency answer to a non-speed boosted Iron Valiant or other Fairy type. Torkoal could use something else other than Spin in the second moveslot, but I lack creativity.


Sticky Webs with SD Encore Ival, Specs Gholdengo, Meteor Beam Jugulis and DD Taunt Gyarados. Iron Jugulis is replacable with a variety of special attackers that better fit what you want to avoid losing to, such as a secondary fire or water resist for Sun or Rain teams, another speed booster, a (physical) ground type for mons like Toxtricity and Zapdos, or others.





and some minor comments on the watchlist:

Fine - Close Combat, Annihilape, and Sneasler are all fine. CC has good distribution but only a small handful of non-problematic mons can make fantastic use out of it (imo the best being Iron Valiant, that mon's real good.) Annihilape struggles with weather and the high amount of mons much faster and stronger than it, but it's a good anti-Webs measure and is good on screens. Sneasler loses to priority and weather teams unless it can find a turn to safely SD, and its STABs blank into any poison type.

Watching - Espathra is very strong and still seems like the same wincon it's ever been, but the influx of strong priority and inability to threaten steels makes it managable. Gliscor is strong and annoying but it doesn't have the speed it really needs to solve most of its problems, fast SD feels like the biggest offender in terms of being a metagame problem but eh. Zama-C is probably the second most polarizing mon on there, sometimes it just wins at round start and other times it switches in and dies almost immediately after to a special attack. Has to choose between more bulk for powerful Body Press or more speed, and it hates making that choice.

Problem - I don't like fighting Urshifu-R, it feels excessively strong in Rain and outside of Rain it's still the same old mon that ignores defense boosts and its own atk drops from Intimidate with crits. It resists Steel and Fire ExtremeSpeed, Bullet Punch from Scizor, and Quick Attack from Rock/Waterpon if it's their secondary type. Even with my love of Raging Bolt on most teams I've been using, it's still a problem when my one okay check to it has to check 2 other mons on their team. I'd be fine with Urshifu going, and potentially rain as well, as fun as it is its VERY strong.

 

[Dorsia]

For those of you struggling to build and ladder, I'm here to offer a handful of sample teams for you to use that I've been harassing the ladder with! With my help, I hope more of you can reach the 1300s and beyond by abusing powerful offense. Enjoy laddering this month!
(click the row of mons to get the Pokepaste)



Rain feat. Specs Walking Wake, Water Quick Attack Ogerpon, and two wallbreakers in CM Rbolt and Booster 4 attacks Iron Hands. Easily my most tested team, and my favorite. Comes with a lot of slashed moveset options if you want variety.


Sun feat. CB Entei, Specs Wake, and Balloon Raging Bolt. Hatterene serves as a pivot, and Treads can get rid of Samurott-Hisui spikes or be an emergency answer to a non-speed boosted Iron Valiant or other Fairy type. Torkoal could use something else other than Spin in the second moveslot, but I lack creativity.


Sticky Webs with SD Encore Ival, Specs Gholdengo, Meteor Beam Jugulis and DD Taunt Gyarados. Iron Jugulis is replacable with a variety of special attackers that better fit what you want to avoid losing to, such as a secondary fire or water resist for Sun or Rain teams, another speed booster, a (physical) ground type for mons like Toxtricity and Zapdos, or others.





and some minor comments on the watchlist:

Fine - Close Combat, Annihilape, and Sneasler are all fine. CC has good distribution but only a small handful of non-problematic mons can make fantastic use out of it (imo the best being Iron Valiant, that mon's real good.) Annihilape struggles with weather and the high amount of mons much faster and stronger than it, but it's a good anti-Webs measure and is good on screens. Sneasler loses to priority and weather teams unless it can find a turn to safely SD, and its STABs blank into any poison type.

Watching - Espathra is very strong and still seems like the same wincon it's ever been, but the influx of strong priority and inability to threaten steels makes it managable. Gliscor is strong and annoying but it doesn't have the speed it really needs to solve most of its problems, fast SD feels like the biggest offender in terms of being a metagame problem but eh. Zama-C is probably the second most polarizing mon on there, sometimes it just wins at round start and other times it switches in and dies almost immediately after to a special attack. Has to choose between more bulk for powerful Body Press or more speed, and it hates making that choice.

Problem - I don't like fighting Urshifu-R, it feels excessively strong in Rain and outside of Rain it's still the same old mon that ignores defense boosts and its own atk drops from Intimidate with crits. It resists Steel and Fire ExtremeSpeed, Bullet Punch from Scizor, and Quick Attack from Rock/Waterpon if it's their secondary type. Even with my love of Raging Bolt on most teams I've been using, it's still a problem when my one okay check to it has to check 2 other mons on their team. I'd be fine with Urshifu going, and potentially rain as well, as fun as it is its VERY strong.

Very nice teams, thanks for sharing!

I personnally have a sun team very similar to yours except I'm running over with Flying Body Press/Iron Defense/Defog/Roost to neutralize SD Gliscor with Flying Facade if I lose early, and also to add more hazard control to the team.

also has interesting synergy with , mine uses Throat Spray with Dragon type Hyper Voice + Weather Ball (so you can hit ).

I'm personnally using Adamant because I want to have max power on it anyway. I've also tried Scarf with Fighting type Solar Blade boosted by Sharpness (187,5 BP is amazing) but it was quite mediocre unfortunately.

seems quite limited in a meta where // are even more solid + they have Flying type Body Press/Facade which hurts a lot, but it's the only spinner that can benefit from Protosynthesis therefore it can use HDB. However it doesn't really get advantage in this meta because Headlong Rush/Close Combat are already STABd and very strong so I think might be better.


Also I'd like to share this Quark Drive spam team with you guys: https://pokepast.es/43eab8b77663f52b

Team explanations

is unfortunately mandatory in this kind of team; I gave it boosted Electric type Scald for less passivity, Chilling Water might be useful, T-Spikes if you consider losing one turn and Pain Split could be fine because it has low base HP.
uses a mixed set with Fairy type CC and Fighting type Knock Off; Tbolt is boosted by the terrain and Moonblast still does powerful damages.
has better STABs here, with Rock type CC being unresisted. I'm going CB but LO + SD could be better.
set with Power Herb + STAB Meteor Beam looks really cool. Dark Pulse in the last slot to keep a reliable move.
is the regular spinner and provide some utility with Ground type Knock Off, Steel type Rapid Spin and rocks.
this one might be awful but can have some potential in some situations. It instantly gets +2 Speed and +1 def, has stronger STABs (Shadow Ball 80 BP and Air Slash 75 BP are now replaced by both 90 BPs) and Calm Mind + Strength Sap work well together.

 

[Clas]

seems quite limited in a meta where // are even more solid + they have Flying type Body Press/Facade which hurts a lot, but it's the only spinner that can benefit from Protosynthesis therefore it can use HDB. However it doesn't really get advantage in this meta because Headlong Rush/Close Combat are already STABd and very strong so I think might be better.

Honestly, I think this is the biggest misconception people have with the tier. Great Tusk is absolutely still the best spinner in the tier, even using its standard OU set, since you just click Knock into Corv/Skarm and then continue doing your job, not to mention you actually start racking chip damage up with Rapid Spin. Gliscor also can't actually switch in because of Ice Spinner. Tusk also has real stats and Headlong Rush, which makes it so much more reliable into Entei/Ceru/Ghold/Gambit/etc without really giving anything up because its Tusk. You are weaker into Thund-T/Tox/RBolt, yes, but Treads is pretty bad into Thund-T anyway on account of Focus Blast and the ability to just tank stuff really well and deal damage really well without needing investment makes Tusk overall so much better on 80-85% of teams.

I will say, Treads does have its niche. Volt Switch + Spin is the only reason to run it tbqh (off of stall) but that compression is really nice on Rain and other Electric-weak offense teams with a good Fire/Sun matchup. I just think people are forgetting why Tusk is so good.

 

[Clas]

double post but oh well

Urshifu-RS and Espathra are now banned!​

	CaptMicrowave	Clas	Discordual	Hiusi guy	Result
Urshifu-RS	BAN	BAN	DNB	BAN	3-1-0 BAN
Espathra	BAN	BAN	BAN	ABS	3-0-1 BAN

Urshifu-RS, while not drastically changing from standard play on paper, is so much stronger in Revelationmons. For one, Water-type Close Combat is noticeably stronger than Surging Strikes, not only being immune from the tripled chance for contact effects to occur but also just doing more damage overall. Second, there are fewer answers to Urshifu-RS than in Gen 8 and standard play, even if in Gen 9 OU it's banned. Tapu Fini isn't present, Dragapult and Dragonite are banned, Slowbro and Toxapex are much worse this gen, and we only gained Pecharunt and Sinistcha as new hard answers. While it being strong on its own isn't too problematic, the fact it can also just use U-turn to bring in a partner like Thundurus-T, Toxtricity, or Gholdengo to deal their own extreme damage is more than enough to bring it over the edge. Being a strong wallbreaker is one thing, but requiring a hard resist or immunity on most teams to be able to answer a Pokemon while always getting innate value via U-turn is another.


Espathra, on the other hand, is noticeably more answerable... just, you need to dedicate a slot to handling it. While the likes of Kingambit, Gholdengo, and Ting-Lu do help, requiring a bulky Stored Power resist that also threatens Espathra is quite limiting. It doesn't help that Espathra can run Hypnosis as a tech tool over Roost, Substitute, or Protect to cheese out a win if their dedicated answer is too chipped or not strong enough to OHKO through boosts and/or survive for 3 turns. If sleep ever is banned then we may relook at this, but for now there isn't a big call for sleep to go.

I will say that we are keeping an eye on Walking Wake and Torkoal/Sun, but otherwise don't expect any new bans for a little while.

Tagging dhelmise and KaenSoul, ty

 

[NotZzephyr]

Finally, an end has come to his rain of terror...

(252 Atk Choice Band Urshifu-Rapid-Strike Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Pecharunt in Rain: 226-267 (59.4 - 70.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO)

 

[EtherealLouser]

I know we just had bans, but how does the council view the prospect of suspecting Gliscor? It just got better as one of its best checks in Urshifu-RS was just banned, and it was already cancer to build and play against before this ban (coming from a balance archetype perspective). We should not be giving Gliscor the ability to 2-shot Alolomola after Stealth Rock as it outspeeds your Great Tusk, Gholdengo, and Samurott-H if they have no speed-boosting item.

Furthermore, the fact it now has reliable Flying-STAB, and a strong STAB at that, means that its only reliable, long-term answers on balance archetypes boil down to the steel birds, Corv and Skarm (unfortunately, Moltres & Zapdos aren't reliable answers as they take too much/don't do enough damage back cuz Poison Heal is a very balanced). These steel birds don't feel great to use right now due to their less-than-desirable matchup into the dominant weathers (Rain/Sun) and their dubious ability to check other common physical attackers, namely Wellspring and Zamazenta-Crowned.

I am aware the watchlist was updated with no Gliscor in sight, but there's a handful of posts on this forum complaining about Gliscor, which is why imo there is reason enough to at least suspect it.

 

[DragonLordDX]

I know we just had bans, but how does the council view the prospect of suspecting Gliscor? It just got better as one of its best checks in Urshifu-RS was just banned, and it was already cancer to build and play against before this ban (coming from a balance archetype perspective). We should not be giving Gliscor the ability to 2-shot Alolomola after Stealth Rock as it outspeeds your Great Tusk, Gholdengo, and Samurott-H if they have no speed-boosting item.

Furthermore, the fact it now has reliable Flying-STAB, and a strong STAB at that, means that its only reliable, long-term answers on balance archetypes boil down to the steel birds, Corv and Skarm (unfortunately, Moltres & Zapdos aren't reliable answers as they take too much/don't do enough damage back cuz Poison Heal is a very balanced). These steel birds don't feel great to use right now due to their less-than-desirable matchup into the dominant weathers (Rain/Sun) and their dubious ability to check other common physical attackers, namely Wellspring and Zamazenta-Crowned.

I am aware the watchlist was updated with no Gliscor in sight, but there's a handful of posts on this forum complaining about Gliscor, which is why imo there is reason enough to at least suspect it.

Gliscor is broken yeah
The SD set has 2 defensive answers in the tier both of which can be exploited very easily by it’s teammates or Gliscor itself if it just runs taunt
That leaves u to check it offensively, but almost none of the pokemon that can actually threaten to do damage to it want to switch into it,
So much of the tier is revolving around Pokemon weak to its 2 STABs that i’ve had many games where it culminated in a “Gliscor War”
And that’s just the offensive Swords Dancer.

 

[Clas]

I'm not against a Gliscor suspect myself, and have been quite anti-Gliscor since last year actually. I'm not sure on council's stance, but we're not gonna do any action before Monday since we want the meta to change at least somewhat.

 

[HiddenPowerSteller]

I also think that Gliscor has become even strong as one of its biggest checks has been banned I'm also interested a possible Gliscor suspect.

 

[Dorsia]

Talking about , what spread/set do you guys run? Here's mine:

Gliscor

Gliscor (M) @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
Shiny: Yes
Tera Type: Ground
EVs: 244 HP / 72 Atk / 192 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Knock Off / Earthquake
- Facade
- Swords Dance
- Protect

I'm going Ground Knock Off because Rocky Helmets is annoying.
The Spe investment allows to reach 301 so you can outspeed non-Booster Energy Jolly although I'm not sure if that's really useful?

 

[DragonLordDX]

Talking about , what spread/set do you guys run? Here's mine:

Gliscor

Gliscor (M) @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
Shiny: Yes
Tera Type: Ground
EVs: 244 HP / 72 Atk / 192 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Knock Off / Earthquake
- Facade
- Swords Dance
- Protect

I'm going Ground Knock Off because Rocky Helmets is annoying.
The Spe investment allows to reach 301 so you can outspeed non-Booster Energy Jolly although I'm not sure if that's really useful?

I usually go for max speed for the Speed ties, which also allows you to outspeed Lando, not that Lando can threaten you but it invalidates Taunt as an option to stop the SD from going off.

 

[HiddenPowerSteller]

Talking about , what spread/set do you guys run? Here's mine:

Gliscor

Gliscor (M) @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
Shiny: Yes
Tera Type: Ground
EVs: 244 HP / 72 Atk / 192 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Knock Off / Earthquake
- Facade
- Swords Dance
- Protect

I'm going Ground Knock Off because Rocky Helmets is annoying.
The Spe investment allows to reach 301 so you can outspeed non-Booster Energy Jolly although I'm not sure if that's really useful?

Funny enough I use that exact move set (in that order) but I'd invest in attack a little more as a few mons might live quite a few unboosted facades and knock offs. But the spread you are using right now is also solid I like the bulk.

 

[DiffusedTurtle]

Recently hit #4 on the ladder with this team i was passed. Its entirely bulky offense relying completely on the defensive core of hands + lando to passively chip counters while expecting either the dual scarfers to lategame sweep, or espeed entei to clean up at the end.

I also feel like it does a good job answering the common threats in the current meta (looking at you gliscor) but doesnt have a clear-cut answer to weather teams (rain sun) so it boils down to aggressive predictions in the end.






Here's the team: