First VR post, I'm mostly a ladder player so if things are better in tourney they will probably be lower here.
Spikes are the most powerful strategy, even if I personally prefer spikesless teams I can't deny their usefulness, and Skarmory is the best spiker. IMO the best sets are either Peck or Toxic Protect, I feel like Peck is more consistent but man if your team doesnt have an easy way to deal with skarm toxic protect is brutal. Thief is ok but if you bring skarm in on something that uses an attacking move then its very obvious what you want. If you do bring it in vs other skarms it is fantastic of course.
Tar is great, but I dont think it gets rank 1 for two major reasons.
1) Sand is great and useful for many teams, so much so that I would argue a majority of teams want sand up. This leads to it being less useful in practice, as it is often a neutral effect. And many teams that truly hate sand can remove tar and clear sand later, and since tar is used as a defensive piece in many teams you often won't know you need to preserve him until it's too late, or they use dug and you are just screwed.
2) There are just too many ways to deal with tar. Other than CB tar and Pursuit (brought in on gar), no Tar set is immediately seriously threatening. Even turn 1 against zapdos they can swap to their rock resist or bulky water and unless you guess right and have the right coverage you dont do much, and from there they can play around it usually. This is why I think the top 3 tar sets are Pursuit, Sub Punch, And CB in no particular order. DD still has it's uses (try out bulky rest DD btw), but there are just too many ways to shut it down.
Yes I'm serious, Jirachi is rank 3 and in the same tier as Skarm and Tar. There are two sets that got it this ranking.
The main one being defensive wish fire tox. This thing can solo teams without dug, it's actually disgusting. Wish is such a great move, the utility of being able to top off somewhat bulky mons that take a lot of chip over a game is incredible. There are only a few things that really shut this set down. Dug can assassinate it, but will take a toxic in the process and be pretty worthless for the rest of the game. Blissey sits on this set and will likely para it but will have to swap out at some point to stop dying to toxic, and bliss itself cannot force out rachi so you will have that chance to toxic or fire punch something else, or just give a wish to something at any time, Blissey is an extremely abusable switch in as well. CM pass Celebi is definitely something that farms this set, but it's not too hard to stop. Any CM subber absolutely farms this as well, but they arent too common.
Steel Psychic is a crazy type for a tanky mon, both fire and ground moves are obvious, and non super effective moves barely scratch this thing. You can run slam as well on paraspam teams but imo outside those toxic is better. 20% burn chance on fire punch is also not fun for the enemy.
The other set that I think is very good (but admittedly not as good) is CM sub ice punch tbolt. This thing is so lame to play against, it sets up on blissey of all things and again has the 20% status chance, this time with freeze which completely ruins any mon not named blissey. (Celebi does not like taking boosted ice punches and starmie is getting tbolted). Not much else to say about this set besides farming low risk high reward rng interactions is very powerful.
We all know what blissey does, and she is a literal required teammate on most defensive teams. The only drawback is she is very passive which is abusable. You can use counter as a fun tech into most switchins but 4mss is a real thing on blissey and with only a bit of chip CB meta annihilates it anyways, which is typically the most dangerous blissey abuser. She is still a great mon, and completely chokes special mons.
CB meta is that guy. He comes in and something is going to die almost every time. Even his best switch in swampert cant take too many EQs. Nothing else in the game can make progress like CB meta, only issues are the same issue as other banders, no healing and abusable once you're locked, especially bad if you bring it in vs something that has protect that you didnt expect.
Both of those issues are why I have actually been using a lot of defensive meta recently. It thuds badly into skarm and swampert but both of those can be beat easily, I myself use zap on most of my defensive meta teams which covers both. I like this set for many of the same reasons I like defensive rachi (shocking I know given they are the same typing). But man, healing under sand with protect to double it is so brutal to try and get through.
Mixed meta also is a fun set, but I have less experience with it. Agiligross is ok too I guess, I like that most super effective hits bring him down to liechi range.
The reverse sweep king, he's far from a one trick pony (dog?) though. Suicune is a great lead, other than zap none of the other common leads want to face it. And with just one CM boost it can start doing serious damage to a team. Roar sets can set up on other calm minders and then instantly win the game with roar. My personal favorite set is sleep talk since it is one of the few things that owns skarm bliss while also actually being a great mon in other regards. People bringing in their skarm to roar me out after I set up 3 CMs on blissey only to get evaporated by sleep talk surf always brings a smile to my face, and unless they swap on the rest turn you have 2 chances to do it. Other things that beat skarm and bliss kinda suck outside of that. (mixed meta, blaziken) The other good mon that can beat both is dd or cb tar, but most sets dont want to get parad and even after a boost get forced out by the swampert that almost every skarm bliss team also has. Cune eats all 3 for breakfast. This set even usually beats zap 1v1 if it comes in on ur calm mind, but it risks sleep talk rng. The only real weakness is that celebi walls it and can leech you ruining everything you worked for.
Speaking of electric moves, it feels like people have a lower opinion of zap as of late, but I still think he's great. Yes, blissey chokes it out, but again blissey is really easy to swap in to. Especially if you run subpass on zap, which I personally think is the best and most consistent set. I also like mixed zap to deal with those pesky celebi's running around as I dont like hp ice. If your team really does not care about swampert then go ahead ig, but a large part of zap's appeal to me is dealing with skarm and swampert. Twave and toxic are both good options as well. Other than blissey, lax, and celebi nothing wants to come in on toxic zap, so bring something to abuse them and you're golden.
The only all in 1 physical wall. Great if you only can afford one slot to making sure you dont instantly lose to DD tar, but personally I am not the biggest fan. The prevalence of anti swampert tech makes him tough to keep alive, and losing to mixed attackers kinda sucks. I prefer cune as my water, but there's no denying his usefulness if you need both a water type and rock resist. Also endeavor pert is an evil set, though it can struggle into teams that have something that doesnt care about his one attacking move. (typically surf)
Gengar is one of those mons that I feel is a bit better in theory, but even still he is great. wisp is a broken move as is explosion. Gengar will be useful in literally every matchup, and on any team. I personally think he's a bit underrated in spikesless offense, but of course he shines best on spikes teams. Worst thing about him is wisp accuracy. I also think hypnosis gar needs exploration, there are many times gar forces things out and teams without blissey usually have a really hard time playing around it. (plus blissey is abusable, you get it by now) Breloom is decent just for the sleep and he kinda sucks after spore is used, so now imagine a good mon with sleep.
Lots of people really underrate dug, sure you can't slap it on any team, but imo we should rate mons mostly on their best sets/teams with versatility not being considered much outside of if it forces the opponent to waste time figuring out the set. Dug does one thing, but that thing is very hard to play around. Losing key parts of your team seemingly out of nowhere can often end a game on the spot. And a good dug team can deal with setup mons coming in afterwards.
Salamence is great, and one of the biggest benefactors of versatility on account of it's sets requiring different counterplay. Other than bulky waters nothing can come in on both mixed and dd mence 100% safely, and even those can be smacked hard by the rare CB mence. I think a really underrated salamence set is mixed sub mence forgoing hp grass. Water types choke it but even still dclaw does ok damage and then you can swap, but the main draw is that other than water types nothing can take the other moves well.
The onion is stronger now that speedpass is banned. CM pass had a terrible matchup into speedpass teams, and now that they are gone phazer stocks are down a bit. Celebi is not tied to any sort of passing strats though, leech seed is almost guaranteed progress, it has heal bell, and the humble offensive celebi can actually be quite a menace. Much like mence it is a mon that forces the enemy to figure out the set in order to properly stop it, but it's harder to tell than mence cause leech seed can be used by any set, and even CM may or may not be pass. SD is ok too but I don't like it.
Yo mama so fat, she can wall special attackers almost as well as blissey while not losing nearly as much momentum. She has a lot in common with snorlax in that regard. Lax can run a ton of different moves on it's utility sets, counter and yawn are two that I think are heavily underrated. Curselax can still do it's thing like always. I have been enjoying running HP bug to smack celebi while also doing decent damage to tar and not letting gengar literally 100% choke you. I think it's better than shadow ball. In all, snorlax is a great check to much of the metagame and can be a decent wincon with the right team.
Offensive and defensive starmie are both solid sets. I prefer modest for offensive. Sidenote you could not pay me to run hydro pump ever.
Fact: Nobody knows how magnets work in real life. (Source: Albert Einstein(Not the one you're thinking of))
Fact: In gen 3 ou magnets work by removing skarmory for physical offense teams. (Source: Stephen Hawking(The one you're thinking of))
Spikes AND rapid spin?!? Building teams with this always make me happy, there is just something about the all in one nature of forretress that appeals to me. You even have a lot of great options for the last two slots. HP Bug, EQ, Explosion, Toxic, Zap Cannon, and even HP Fire sometimes.
I never use it personally due to my addiction to suicune, but it's quite solid in it's own right. Still doing what it always has, stopping anything that isnt electric or boosted in it's tracks. Most typically seen on that one team, you know the one.
Hera️Boss might be higher than one might expect, but what can I say I love the guy. Banded is a solid lead, and blows holes in teams much like our friend CB metagross. Hera has a better stab in megahorn, and personally i like to put focus punch on it as well for some real fun. I also run guts on CB which makes blissey's twave a massive boon, you can just straight up kill salamence with guts and CB boosted rock slide after intimidate. Salac is also good, one of the best robbery mons if you can clear weather. Sand being so prevalent make it considerably worse, so consider weatherclear unless you run leftovers heracross which is decent.
The defensive player's spinner of choice. Pairs very well with bulky waters. Explosion is always a boon for a mon even though it doesnt have too much attack. Also a decent check to tar, but it cant stop it too often if it has hp bug.
Controversial placement #3. Slacking requires tons of support, but DAMN this thing is a nuclear bomb every time it hits the field. Always run as a lead since it forces literally everything not named skarmory out, then click focus punch to do 80% to their skarm coming in and you're makin money. I run rest instead of shadow ball since I run slacking with umbreon who owns gar, and I also run heal bell support. Loves weather clear as well, I prefer the magless team variants with forre instead but if skarm is causing you lots of trouble mag is a great partner. If you are good at prediction this is the mon for you. He is actually surprisingly easy to get in, and is way more physically tanky than people think. The biggest weakness of slaking is that teams featuring it rely heavily on it for progress, and if the enemy has dug then as soon as you kill anything they can just revenge you for free.
Gyara isn't bad, in fact as a DDer I like it more than salamence on most teams. However, it does suffer greatly from being forced to choose which hidden power to run. It can get value via twave as most things that switch in to it dont like getting para'd, but blissey is just so annoying for it no matter what set it runs, which is quite the shame for a physical attacker. With rest it can set up on non tbolt blisseys but gyara can typically be dealt with in some form or another while it's sleeping. Don't run 3 attacks with this thing though, unless you are a lunatic like me who enjoys the rare CB gyarados.
I do not care much for aero. Always just not quite strong enough, and teams with multiple rock resists or just swampert and skarm are sooo hard for it to make progress in. It isn't bad, but just meh a lot of the time. Best SD pass recipient though so I guess it has that going for it.
Honestly I think regi is a damn good lead. Physical mons with twave are always tough to deal with. The biggest downside is that it is extremely telegraphed that you are mag phys offense with this lead. I don't use it much myself though so no insight from me.
It's alright, fighting stab is always great and it hits almost as hard as slaking but without the world's coolest ability truant which is why it's lower.
Seriously though, it has a lot of trouble entering and there are a lot of things that can switch in on it's attacks and outspeed, which is pretty tough to deal with. It's great against slower teams though.
Jolt can be quite the nuisance for a lot of teams, typically by spreading para and passing subs to threats. I prefer zap to it since jolt gets worn down by spikes and has a considerably weaker tbolt, but it certainly has it's place on offensive spikes teams.
Everybody's favorite dragon is pretty fun to use. I love special attackers that can deal with blissey on their own, I also love mons that use sub well. Fire is really tough to switch in on, you basically have the bulky waters, who do completely stop zard, gyarados who hates burn, as well as blissey,(hates focus punch and beat up), and Mence, (hates burn and zard can run dclaw). One of the scariest mons to hit the field if you have something that cant risk being fire blasted on your side.
Basically zard but with more damage and wisp access, but no focus punch or beat up so gets walled by blissey. Choose based on how much your team hates bliss.
Super underrated mon, has access to pursuit and wish. It's ability being synchronize is hilarious into gar, which is great cause the main reason to use this is that you need something to deal with gar without putting sand on the field. Slaking's best friend.
Only outsped by three mons, abuses sub, and has calm mind. Everyone knows it's biggest drawback is that it gets whooped by dug, which is why lots of people run porygon 2 with it. In matchups that dont involve dug this thing is a real bastard.
I love kingdra, it only has one super effective weakness, and that weakness will only ever be hit by some salamences and very rarely by zard. Neither of which can actually stay in vs a fairly healthy kingdra even if rain is down. Since you dont need to invest in much speed at all, it gets surprisingly bulky. Clearing weather also makes sand chip not do much to it, and tar has to run even if it comes in after a kill to reset sand so it's very easy to keep it off. The actual biggest issues with kingdra are the normal blobs and bulky waters. The only way you are beating waters is by cm passing to kingdra and having hp grass or electric as your 4th move, snorlax can sometimes be beat with a cm pass into rain as it switches in, blissey hard walls unless you are somehow able to get like 4 cms or run toxic which is a decent option. Personally I prefer to have different ways to deal with the waters and blobs and use sub since lots of people try to play around rain by swapping around their water and ice weak mons, and sub shuts that down.
Kingdra but with the ability to deal with bulky waters via leech or giga drain. Leech is my preferred since it forces lax and blissey out as well, but you need to be mindful of blissey twave. Giga also struggles into cune cause of calm mind unless you start with a cm pass boost. That said giga is really nice to have since outside of blissey and lax it will heal you a lot more than leech, and ludi at high hp is tanky enough to take most hits. Like kingdra, Ludi basically only has one weakness as poison isnt used by pretty much anything, but flying is harder to play around than dragon. Ludi also has less bulk since you need to invest in speed. This is especially noticeable on the physical side, where kingdra can often take two hits and live, wheras ludi can only take one.
The coolest special wall, regice can be really tough to deal with for special spam teams. It laughs at zapdos and stab ice beam is very nice, plus again being able to freeze fish is a powerful trait. Also has explosion and twave so no matter what it can get value.
Not a rock resist, but forms an excellent defensive core with swampert. Resists fighting, which is an underrated trait and has access to wisp. (best move in the game after spikes) Also has haze and pain split which are great moves, and one of the only poison stab users which actually is surprisingly nice a lot of the time. Something I need to explore more is registeel instead of swampert as it's rock/steel resist teammate.
Sadly as much as I love flygon's design he doesn't do it for me at all in this tier. He has traits that seem incredible on paper, a rock resist immune to spikes?!? And then you use it and get spikes set up on you by skarm. Which is why he really only gets used on superman teams where that massive flaw doesnt matter. Not terrible by any means but like, just use swampert man.
Smeargle the war crime beagle just played a massive part in getting speedpass banned, and for that he gets the congressional medal of honor. I know many of his detractors say he shouldn't be rewarded for abusing poor children on the ladder with spore taunt dd pass, but he did it for us so that ninjask would be terrible forever. He on the other hand still has access to spore and spikes, as well as sub and belly drum whenever the sadistic voices in his head get too loud again. When he's feeling more lighthearted he runs transform to empathize better with his fellow mon.
100% accurate sleep is great, as is stab focus punch afterwards. Stun spore is a decent move option as well as leech. Please don't sack breloom right after using spore, I see people do this way too much when they don't need to. Obviously there are times where it calls for it but just don't be lazy about it, this also applies to mag.
P2 is for the refined gentlemen who has a deep hatred for dugtrio. Outside of revenging dug it is a decent check to dders not named tar, and even tar doesnt really want to risk 2 twaves. Also porygon 2 is cute as hell, don't tell me you don't want to pet him.
I think knock off is overrated, its super obvious every time and other than tar every other common lead can hit him back pretty hard, or worse yet sub. Yama overall is ok, he's bulky, doesnt care much about tar, and had guts which is my favorite ability. 4mss is really rough on him though, I always feel like I really want just one more move.
Rip salac pass you were the only exception to speedpass that I thought was ok. Still a bulky water with access to wish, sub, and bp. Hits fairly hard too, and hard walls suicune. Sidenote vaporeon is my favorite eeveelution. (don't say it)
Certainly not just metagross at home, this is a mon that always gets something done. Twave, counter, explosion, and stoss is just a great set. Curse sets are kind of interesting as well, honestly a really scary last mon if your team doesnt have leech seed. Number one mon that might rise up if I do another VR.
I hate this thing in all capacities, but that aside I feel like it rarely does what it wants to. You have a 25% chance to just get killed trying to sleep something, and then you calm mind as they send in their ice resist and then what? Not to mention if you are against a lum lead you just do absolutely nothing, and 25% of the time you don't even find out they are lum LOL. I still think it's better than everything below it cause sleep is still great but I almost wanted to make a tier just for this thing since I don't really think it's nearly as good as anything above it either. Just glad this thing sucks cause I hate the design, it's so ugly mannn. The OG humanoid mon.
King of inconsistency, sometimes this thing runs a game, other times they have a bulky water and you are worthless forever. HP ice is best imo cause salamences love switching in on this. 4mss is a real bitch here though.
The prevalence of gengar and skarm keeps this thing a low tier mon. Curse, body slam, milk drink, heal bell is the one true set. Really cool for paraspam and mag offense teams. Also very funny to curse up when they bring a dder or curselax in and watch your opponent slowly realize they are about to get udderly annihilated by a cow. Thick fat is a super underrated ability too.
Another inaccurate sleep mon, but can be faster than breloom and is considerably tankier. I don't use this much but I think it's not bad since it has synthesis.
Another mon I don't use much. I am pretty low on cloyster myself but I have heard talks of boomspam teams with dug that really like this as a lead. Maybe this is too low but I rarely see it do much against me in my games.
Yet another mon I don't use. I rarely see this thing but unlike cloyster I feel like teams that utilize this are really fucking hard to beat. Pretty much only used on hard stall as far as I know, has access to knock which even though I said knock is overrated, it is still undoubtably a good move. I will also say teams that feature armaldo seem to get more out of knock than yama teams. #1 mon I suspect is better in tourneys.
Ex speedpass abuser numero uno, unlike it's main partner jask however it has some cool uses outside of those now illegal social experiments. Paraspam teams can use wak to whack the slowed threats. And there truly is something satisfying about watching it one shot tanks.
Mr. Fuck your zapdos (and blissey). Easy to get onto the field into those mons and skarmory, tough outside of that. The ability to threaten skarm bliss is always fun as hell to use. But often struggles to get past their other defensive mons. HP grass takes out swampert but bulky mono waters are really bad for it. A mon I want to build with more in the future.
"Mr. Fuck your zapdos 2, fuck you as well jolteon and raikou" Now showing in theaters near you. Not as immediately threatening as the camel, but has much more longevity. For slower teams that really do not want zap to be able to do a damn thing all game. Also steelix has one of the best designs in all of pokemon.
Speaking of great pokemon designs, houndoom is a decent anti gengar mon that has access to wisp, but unlike umbreon this thing is really squishy. I value wisp a lot but most teams have ways to play around it, and wish support from umbreon is more useful to teams that hate gengar. Not to mention gar usually just booms on houndoom, which is much less impactful on the tankier umbreon especially since gar will usually be burned by synchronize. Also pursuit tar is more useful for teams that hate gar and like sand, so I almost never get to use this thing.
This is the mon you run if you have one team slot left and you just realized you have a crippling rock weakness. Neither dd tar nor aero will ever get through this thing I assure you that. Also has rapid spin which is great, but can't do anything to gar so will need help on that front if you need to keep spikes away.
One of the top most annoying pokemon to face, if your team doesnt have celebi you are in for many leech seeds over the course of the game. Also has endeavor to go along with its very high speed, overgrow boosted leaf blade is pretty chunky as well.
This thing is awful outside of that one team, you know the one. It's ok there though so here it is.
I think this thing sucks, but it has spikes and explosion. A possible choice for offensive spikes teams. Salac berry makes it not worthless.
I'll see you in hell. If you ran this thing on ladder I would like you to take the time to imagine me blowing cigar smoke in your face. Thank you.
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....Aero, RoarJolt and we hoping this not for the revenge kill lmao. Sub is reeeally good on a forced switch, cancels status from Blissey (and she loses without Stoss). In the right situation it can beat Bliss, she's often chipped anyways. Or with the right support it can use Rest to effectively stall out. To go further, people have been experimenting with more defensive Kou spreads to alleviate some of it's issues and create auspicious outcomes (like there should be some new sauce).
Water type with ice beam and usable special attack = good
Ghost types are really good fits on spikes
Levitate/flying type - arguably the best trait a gen3 mon can have, so you think these mons would be ranked higher, but OU takes all the good ones. Most of the BL floaters are actually just awful
Explosion + good typing makes just about anything viable
Speed > base 100 + some other usable trait (encore, endeavor, cm, cb + good stab/coverage, boom)
Low distribution utility moves (spikes, spin, knock off, heal bell, perish song) will get you a spot here
Because of crocune, water absorb automatically makes just about any mon usable
if you can beat blissey 1v1 without without booming, you're probably viable
- that’s right, I’m ranking champ above medicham and breloom. I love fitting as much defense as possible onto my offenses without losing offensive integrity, and champ does this much better than them. Misses notwithstanding, bulk up machamp has the power and bulk to basically guarantee value every single game, which to me makes it better at doing medicham’s job. I don’t mind focus punch 4a either.
- if it’s enough for fruhdazi it’s enough for me.
- I ran protect sets for 4BL and it was honestly not a bad cune/pert hybrid. Not sure that sort of thing is generally viable over one of those two mons, but since off waters are so good, it worked for me. I think the Salac versions are easily the best still.
- never really used it myself, but spinblocking and beating lax in one slot is few and far between
- insanely good matchup vs jolt-special-wall teams which earns it a real niche
- does cool things on superman. I feel like offensive sets with ice beam + a hidden power + two of bell/tox/roar have potential on spikes because of how well they check pert & cune
- off waters are good, remember?
- thief + intimidate + fire blast are enough for viability
- really solid defensive typing with barely usable stats. Owns all fighters
- honestly hydro + crunch + taunt + dedge or ib is a good partner for gengar on spikes offenses. Switches in on claydol psychic & suit tar and forces them out, damages mono waters and prevents them from healing. I think it’s usable.
- I’ve always wanted to give cb a shot. Intimidate on that speed tier is cool
- I know good players have used it, but it’s a niche choice on a decidedly mediocre team style.
- niche choice on a decidedly mediocre team style
- speed tier + endeavor + liechi/petaya pass makes it conceptually usable
- flail + aero speed tier + sand immunity means he can maybe do things
- I have no idea what eggy can do, but its innate traits are good enough to imagine a world where he does things
- fastest (?) sd user with rock slide and earthquake/brick break? Hyper cutter too? I could see it
- would be a full tier higher if dug didn’t exist
- don't really know what to make of this mon as I've never used it myself, but I think the few mag lax teams I've seen it on might very well be onto something.
- off water with yawn and encore? Is blues onto something…
- I actually think early bird kanga has real potential as the only physical attacker/bliss punish that can self-heal and shrug off status without much difficulty. Base 90 attack is pretty rough for it, though
- sorry Kollin7
- Off. Waters. Are. Good. But this one sucks let’s be real
- memento cheese
- water absorb + fighting stab is technically a niche even without speed pass
- scizor was probably D-tier before hclat showed the world what it does
- mag that mimic’s spikes
- maybe 1/50 games you prefer this over kingdra
- MVP of a few of my 4BL teams. Has great natural qualities, but it's this low because you really cannot justify it over starmie outside of extremely specific scenarios. It is technically true that starmie doesn’t learn roar or refresh, though, so blastoise at least gets ranked.
- achieves calm cune bulk with higher power, access to twave, and a fighting resistance for mix mon checking. These traits are pretty good, but suicune is just straight up better anyway most of the time. Crunch/bug weaknesses and much lower phys bulk are unwelcome
- perish song + rest nat cure + fighting resist is something that you don’t run into every day
- shoutout Johnald
- what does this
- mon even do
- honestly this mon should probably be 40 places higher than this but I choose to ignore its cheese potential
- I think using this would actually be fun, but there's no serious argument for its viability
- I was thinking Sd + hydro + ice + sludge bomb might barely be usable as a mono pert & milo punish & mixmence/zard answer
- speed + cross chop is a thing that this can do
- probably a worse linoone/tauros?
- probably outspeeds a lot of dd mence which is hilarious
- pursuits claydol and has good typing and decent stats
- gets cm pass and disruption moves. I've seen Nal pull miracles with this thing
- cool typing
- anything with trick + cb can probably do something
- conceivably the most optimal choice for double ghost spikes offense
- dragon dance + stab earthquake + somehow usable speed tier
- it does indeed pursuit trap claydol
- doesn’t have the coverage or power for good SD or CB sets, but you can try anyway
- leech seed + flying stab for grass types is actually cool
- can cb revenge kill things while resisting fighting?? Maybe mean look + screech + confuse ray + fly? Why did they make crobat so bad????