Fur coat doesn't make you 180 atk, neither does Milotic
So are we saying it's not ?
Can we not hyperfocus on the option I said would be the least useful, and ignore the point of gyarados + intim giving ridiculous amounts of special bulk, 125 atk and intimidate ?
/ 
in every way).
+ : Brings the coveted Teleport + Trick Room combo that sets TR and gets in the breakers safely, which let Porygon2 enable TR to be a legit threat in Gen 8 OU Singles. Trace lets Chansey copy all sorts of useful abilities, like stopping Trick on Dengo-evos, Punk Rock softening Boomburst on Toxtri-evos, switching into Intimidate-Gyara evos, etc.
+ : Just a good fat Unaware Defensive Wall + TR Setter that can sit on offensive threats for days. Colbur Berry lets it trade Willo’ against Dark mons like Bisharp and Qwil.
+ : This is a legit great offensive lead that stops hazard stacking / Taunt with Magic Bounce and usually nets a few KOs with its strong/perfect coverage. Ground + Fairy is great both offensively and defensively, and Ice Punch makes Gligar a poor counter. Rocky Helmet lets it break Sashes (Samurott-evos) or finish weakened stuff just by switching in, saving TR turns.
+ Surging Strikes and Unseen Fist together break through so many standard TR counters it isn’t funny - Intimidate, Screens, Sturdy, Sashes, Substitutes, Defense-boosting, Protect. My logic? Put Urshifu and Band on the hardest hitting LC-Mon and just break stuff. Head Smash Breaks water resists, CC breaks Corv+Dipplin, Aqua Jet for prio. Nuff said.
+ : By far, my favorite mon of this team.
+ : Wild card, baby! Scarf Protean Fraxure hits hard and fast outside TR, complementing my slow breakers, putting the opponent in checkmate situations where they lose the speed war no matter what. It’s also very defensively unpredictable, since it changes its typing with Protean. For instance, quickly becoming a Fairy type lets it be surprisingly immune to Dragon and resisting Fighting is quite handy. 
I've just cooked this :
Toxtricity (Snover) (M) @ Loaded Dice
Ability: Technician
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Shift Gear / Swords Dance
- Icicle Spear
- Bullet Seed
- Drain Punch / Ice Shard
View attachment 725201
It has a bad typing (at least defensively), average stats for CE and require support to work BUT if you intend to use Aurora Veil, it might have potential (even though it's outclassed by
That being said, give the little snowman a chance at least!
I've been wanting Cloyster to be banned for a while, but I haven't been able to convince other council members in the past since it was very rare to encounter on ladder. However, it is currently being discussed, and I'm hoping that they can get more practice against it.
(Tsareena, Tinkaton) (Gyarados, Hitmonlee, Clodsire, Milotic, Avalugg, Ninetales-Alola) (Ceruledge, Clodsire, Hitmontop, Hariyama) (Gardevoir, Clefable, Hatterene)
(Vivillon) (Cloyster) (Froslass) (Garganacl, Chesnaught, Reuniclus, Corviknight)
(Vivilllon)
(Toxtricity, Gholdengo, Polteageist) (Vivillon) (Clefable, Hydreigon) (Clodsire, Milotic, Toxapex)
(Ceruledge, Hariyama) (Gyarados, Persian-Alola, Clodsire)
(Ceruledge, Lokix)
(Gholdengo, Breloom, Vaporeon)
(Samurott-Hisui, Dragonite) (Gyarados, Avalugg, Persian-Alola)
(Araquanid, Barraskewda, Breloom)
(Vivillon)
(Vivillon, Leavanny)
(Gyarados, Lycanroc-Dusk)
(Skeledirge, Kommo-o, Gardevoir) (Skeledirge, Hatterene, Dragonite)
(Lycanroc-Dusk, Breloom, Hitmonlee)
(Lokix, Leafeon)
(Gholdengo) (Tsareena, Tinkaton) (Gyarados, Clodsire, Hitmonlee, Ninetales-Alola) (Ceruledge, Clodsire, Hariyama) (Gardevoir, Clefable) (Vivillon) (Cloyster) (Garganacl, Chesnaught, Corviknight, Reuniclus) (Vivillon) (Vivillon) (Hydreigon, Clefable) (Samurott-Hisui, Dragonite) (Persian-Alola, Ninetales-Alola) (Froslass) (Gholdengo, Toxtricity) (Leavanny, Vivillon) (Ceruledge, Lokix) (Breloom, Ninetales-A) (Clodsire, Slowking, Toxapex) (Hatterene, Dragonite, Skeledirge) (Gyarados) (Hariyama, Ceruledge) (Araquanid, Barraskewda) (Lokix) (Lycanroc-Dusk, Breloom) (Skeledirge, Kommo-o, Clefable, Gardevoir)
(Vivillon)
(Vaporeon) (Breloom, Hitmonlee, Lycanroc-Dusk)
(Corviknight) (Tsareena)
+ 
= Bulky Sun setter with rocks and U-Turn + 
= Normal + Ghost typing is very good, making it an Unaware special wall immune to mixed breaking options like Facade Milotic evos, and Rage Fist + Drain Punch Annihilapes
+ 
= Stalls best option against Tinkaton Bisharp
+ 
= RegenVest Sp Def tank that laughs at any Vivillion evo, Taunt be damned, heals with Volt Switch and grabs momentum, Scald, Discharge and Ice Beam are all nice too + 
= More offensive variant of above, can run Specs and Competitive + 
= Defensive Wish passer with slow pivot. Bulk is just ok, but it also brings a rare resistance to both Gyarados Gligar and Cloyster Mudbray with healing, and Scald
+ 
= Physical def Regen + Trick Room + Teleport setter with Encore. I like it itemless for Knock and Poltergeist + = Unaware wall and/or Trick Room setter that didn’t fold to set up + 
= Defensive Intimidate and Parting Shot pivot not weak to Dark or Ghost
+ 
= Mixed stallbreaker with Contrary Overheat and Power Trip
+ 
= Fast HO hazard lead with Taunt and Explosion + = Alternative Snow / Veil setter Gligar with speed, and Blizzard to goob Volt Switch absorbing ground types
+ 
= Fast special attacker + 
= Defensive Quiver Dance + Stored Power + neutral normal typing + Flame Body + 
= Trick Scarf + U-Turn + 
= Bulky Rage Fist machine + 
= Fat Recycle + Leppa Berry + Revival Blessing machine
+ = Mixed Facade attacker with strong special attack + 
= Mixed sweeper with Shift Gear, Drain Punch and strong Boomburst + = More Mixed Facade attacker + 
= Dark Pulse nuke, and Hurricane in Rain + 
= EQ/Toxic immune SD sweeper that goobs defensive Gligar sets with Barb Barrage poison and Crunch def drops + 
= Psychic immune RegenAV with Clear Smog, Crunch, Barb Barrage and Foul Play + 
= Goated fat Sheer Force stall breakerSo I have some thoughts on these sets, and most of these I'd rather leave off of the VR. This doesn't necessarily mean that you shouldn't run them, there is still room for experimentation, but a lot of these don't quite feel good enough, and I'd also rather have the listed evolutions be limited to the best ones. We can't possibly list every possible evolution.Been playing CE awhile now, both last year, room tours and this ladder. Love the early VR’s of Gimlaf and Dark Koopatrol.
I think all these sets have viability and should be ranked. (I didn’t come up with most of them.)
: Good set. Already on the VR. : So this does have a niche, given that it outspeeds even Electabuzz Vivillon and has U-turn, but that 133 SpA hurts. I don't feel comfortable running something so weak, which is why I didn't rank it, but it will be on the official VR. : Good sun setter, but I do not rate sun very highly, so it doesn't get a mention. This is also why Pelipper is not mentioned. Sun also has the option of only using Koraidon, and skipping out on a secondary / more dedicated setter. : This seems good in theory, but in practice I feel like it's just a mostly worse Clefable, They're both specially defensive Unawares with around the same bulk, but Clefable has Wish, which is a very valuable tool for it to have. Skeledirge does have some neat stuff going for it, but they're fairly minor in comparison. Normal / Ghost is not a huge upgrade over mono Normal. If being immune to Facade turns out to be a big deal, I would be happy to rank it, but I have not felt like this is the case. I also don't care about cheesing Rage Fist sets. This is one of those 'mons that you would do completely fine with, but I would not recommend because there's another option that I think is better. : So Shellder is something that I don't like simply because it does not have good stats. It is a water, yes, which is a good type to have, but I feel like you'd be better off using another water (Slowpoke) or restructuring your team to not need one. It is also NOT Stall's best option for Bisharp Tinkaton. It does well against it, and given its role as a bulky water, that might be enough, but it can't avoid losing its item, which opens you up to hazards. If you want a more specialized Pokemon, Pignite Reuniclus is a niche option as a Knock absorber that is chosen for its good type matchup into Bisharp.: So I've disregarded this in the past since I didn't think it had good stats, but taking another look, its special bulk is way better than I thought. It's actually bulkier than Qwilfish-Hisui, though its typing means that it is worse overall. I could see it being an option for a specially defensive pivot, with Volt Switch and Scald, but I have not seen enough for me to quite want to rank it. Doing so would be hasty, I feel. Let's take a look at the sets: : I'm not generally a huge fan of RegenVests in this format, but given that Chinchou has Volt Switch, I think it could work. There aren't very many special attackers that run moves that it's weak to, so it should be a decent all around pivot for balance teams. However, it does compete with Chansey Gardevoir and Munchlax Slowking. I could definitely see it in B, especially given that the other council members voted to put Calyrex-Shadow in B (I think it's terrible), but it's hard to say when I haven't seen it in action. Of the listed sets, I think this one is the best. : I could see this, but Chinchou has to compete with really some really specially bulky Pokemon, namely Chansey and Munchlax. Chinchou's advantage was that it could run Volt Switch on an Assault Vest set. RegenVests don't fit as well on balance teams when they don't have a pivoting move (which they usually don't), but Chinchou's Volt Switch made it more reasonable to run on balance, and its Assault Vest makes up for the lower stats. I would not run an offensive set. : So Chinchou's special bulk is good, but its physical bulk is not. Chimecho also gives terrible stats. If you're playing Stall, and you're really getting sick of Mudbray Cloyster, and you can afford to use a Pokemon slot on something that won't handle much else, you could run this. But even then, its bulk is so bad that it still takes over 50 from a boosted Icicle Spear, and there are other options to handle it that don't weaken you in other aspects. I would not recommend using this. : I'm not a huge fan of Cosmoem. It has basically the same stats as Dusclops, but with a worse typing and with almost no moves. It does have Teleport, but this alone is usually not enough to make it worth using. If you really want a Trick Room setter with Teleport, fine. But Trick Room is not something I consider to be very good, and there are plenty of other options you could use for a setter anyway. : Dusclops is good, but it isn't quite as bulky as the other physical walls, so it has to make up for this with some other useful traits. For example, Garganacl gives it passable bulk alongside Salt Cure and Purifying Salt, and Chesnaught makes it the best Spinblocker in the tier and gives it some other nice tools such as Leech Seed or Body Press. Unaware is not something that Dusclops does better than other options, and it has to sacrifice some bulk in order to run it, since Clefable does not give great stats. There's also the issue that it's weak to Dark, which is less than ideal unless you're pairing it with something else that can handle those Pokemon, such as Vullaby. Incineroar is just not good because it doesn't get recovery. No, Pain Split does not count. : The stats on this thing are just not good, and Power Trip is not a good gimmick. At +6 SpA, Power Trip maxes out at 140 BP, and you don't have STAB. This is not particularly impressive, especially given that its base stats are not good to begin with. I don't think it even accomplishes its job as a stallbreaker very well. Qwilfish-Hisui Clodsire is a very common on Stall, and given that it resists Power Trip, it just does not care about it. But even if your opponent only has Chansey Clefable or Munchlax Clodsire, Torracat still doesn't even to that well, assuming that it doesn't invest in Atk. Chansey Clefable takes 35-41%, and Munchlax Clodsire takes 26-31%. All of this is on top of the fact that I am just not a fan of Serperior in general, even on its most popular base of Magmar. : Honestly this could be decent, but it definitely still feels niche, especially in a format where you can make anything a spinblocker. Maybe I could be convinced, but I would definitely need to see this in action if I were to rank this. Note that this only has 126 Spe, which is decent, but still puts it behind base 135s and higher, which includes some important Pokemon, most notably Qwilfish-Hisui Ceruledge, which can completely shut it down with Taunt. Perhaps it would be worth forgoing Toxic Spikes in exchange for more Speed? I did look at Gligar Gholdengo a while back as a suicide lead, and it shares many of the other traits that made Voltorb Glimmora appealing: Stealth Rock, Spikes, Taunt, and Speed. Gligar Ghold is even faster at 159 Spe, is immune to Rapid Spin and even Mortal Spin, and is immune to Defog so you don't have to waste a turn Taunting Defoggers. I ran Knock Off as my final move, but if you really want a self-KO move, you could run Memento. : So I know that I talked about how important Speed is to avoid Taunt, but I don't think the tradeoff is worth it here. The reason for this is that I find Gligar's bulk to be essential in setting up Screens multiple times, and end even in the rare case that you do get Taunted, you can still use Play Rough / Moonblast or U-turn. While Voltorb should run Blizzard to enable Volt Switch, it is not as good as simply running U-turn, since Ninetales-Alola should not be filling an offensive role. It wants to set screens, maybe Taunt an opposing Pokemon, and get out. : 170 SpA is a lot, but Glimmet is really frail, and with that being the case 135 Spe is a bit lower than I would have liked. More importantly, this does not have a good way to hit Bisharp. I would rather juts run Electabuzz. : This is fine, but I don't love this. I just feel like there are better bases for Volcarona, and Stored Power is not worth running. Dunsparce Volcarona also doesn't really have a way to get past Qwilfish-Hisui Ceruledge. Annihilape is just not very good in this format, since it gives bad stats. Bear in mind that it evolves from Primeape, which is one of the best bases. This would have to be a breaker, but even in the best case scenario, you are never getting past Vullaby, one of the premier physical walls of the tier. : Its stats are all around decent, but it doesn't have any standout, and Revival Blessing is gimmicky. I would not run this.: I just don't like Zorua-Hisui. Normal / Ghost might seem appealing, but it's 10 points weaker than Girafarig (the same as Stantler), 15 points slower than either of them, and much frailer than either. If anything, its Ghost type only serves to make it weak to Sucker Punch. : You could run this, but I'm not super impressed by it. Not having a good STAB really hurts. Maybe this could be ranked, but again I'd have to see it action. : Middling speed with unimpressive bulk, and is not strong enough to make up for it. Bear in mind that Mega Launcher Dark Pulse is still only 120 BP, and Murkrow still has to work with its 147 SpA. I'm running out of energy at this point, but I'm not super impressed by either. This feels like a situation where these might not be bad, but also not good enough to be ranked.
: Missy is the best Veil lead due to its great speed and disruptive movepool. It also has a benefit of getting snow up after Koraidon, making it quite a reliable check to the bike dragon.: Mr. Broken himself, Mudbray is crazy threatening under Snow due to the added defensive benefits on top of the extra insurance from Veil that not only enables it to get up a Shell Smash, but also enable Substitute mindgames more freely, easing the matchup vs the omnipresent Bisharp. Ice Shard can be used instead just to have an emergency answer to DD Gligar, but Sub has one me more games so far. Once a SS or two are setup, the game can be pretty much over without priority checks since Ice + Ground coverage targets the most common Unaware mons.: Another broken sweeper, even with its paper thin Defense stat, Ebuzz can still secure a Quiver Dance and be hugely threatening due to its unmatched Speed and offensive STAB moves. I chose Taunt here to have a better MU vs non-Magic Bounce Chansey.: Originally Ceruledge variant, I choose to go with Hariyama instead since it gives the team an extra Dark resist and Yama Qwilfish is also just insanely strong not to use as a stallbreaker. Does suck into most Gligar variants since there is no Ice Punch, but the ability to threaten Bisharp is too important.: Overlooked mon imo since I don't see it much on ladder, Boomburst from this mon goes insane. Usually it runs Specs, but setup Girafarig is also just as good. Thumps vs. Steels but the rest of the team is more then equipped to handle them anyways. Dazzling Gleam is for Dark/Ghost types.: Finally, the last broken mon that I feel should be banned, Bisharp is too potent of a stallbreaker. It sucks cause Tsareena sets provide so much utility for the tier, but Mold Breaker + SD + Insanely powerful STABs that threaten the majority of the tier is too good. Oh also Sucker priority games makes this Kingambit on steroids in this tier lol.Glad to see that somebody else is using Mudbray Cloyster. I've wanted it banned for a while now, and it seems like people are finally realizing how good it is. Hopefully it can get banned soon. Like your team, and I'll take it as an opportunity to talk about a Pokemon.This meta is quite awesome! Such a cool and interesting concept and I have really been enjoying the ladder thus far. Here is a team I wanted to share that has gotten me quite a bit of success.
Veil HO (feat. Broken Mudbray!)
Team Description:
Fun HO squad featuring some of the most broken sweepers this format has to offer (excluding tier king Gligar ofc).
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9crossevolution-2582597047-cjappt5lk3f9v1ki14b5ym63iv1p59rpw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9crossevolution-2582463850-hffljpwua14p8ji8g75t44kirv69ep2pw?p2
Im excited to see other people's ideas!
I do quite like Missy as a screens setter, but I don't think it's quite the best. I would argue that Gligar is better. Gligar does not have Will-O-Wisp, which does hurt a bit, but I think it makes up for this with its other traits. First, its bulk, especially on the physical side, is a good bit better, which helps in getting screens up multiple times. Its typing is also a bit better, which is mainly just important vs Electrics. It also has U-turn, which I have found helps with positioning a lot. I think that running a Fairy move is optimal for any Ninetales-Alola, even on your Misdreavus set. It's less needed since you have Will-O-Wisp for Koraidon, but I worry about Ceruledge, especially if it runs Taunt. If you run a Fairy move, Qwilfish Ceruledge will have to respect you, even if you aren't necessarily a good answer. For this reason, I would run Moonblast over Hex, especially since Will-O-Wisp could give Ceruledge a free Flash Fire boost. The set I've been running on Gligar is Aurora Veil, Taunt, Moonblast, and U-turn. You could run Play Rough over Moonblast, since Gligrar's Atk is significantly better than its SpA, but I really didn't want to deal with its accuracy and I haven't been disappointed with Moonblast so far. You only really attack with Gligar in specific situations anyway, mainly against enemies weak to you, so the lower power has not been a big deal. It's generally better to just set up screens and leave.
I've tried out a lot of options for stall, so I'll chime in on the combinations I've tried out mentioned by VannAccessible and DK.
I ran this for a while and it does deserve to be ranked. Will-o-wisp is pretty nice and ghost typing helps versus vivillion evos to dodge focus blasts. However, I think it's inferior to clefable on pure stall teams. The weakness to dark is not worth it with so many dark types running around. DK is also correct, wish is far more valuable than wisp. It's worse than clefable generally, but it has a niche which makes it worth ranking imo. stalls best option versus Bisharp are imo and + . The former outright walls it and kills it with body press easily, the latter is too bulky to care about Bisharp unless it has triple axel. I ended up running a combination of gligar milotic + holding a colbur berry. Since you're going to be eating a knock off switching in, being immune to hazards is really helpful. Knock off hurts, but you can comfortably live one and will-o-wisp it. Colbur berry gives you more wiggle room here. It's not perfect, but its worked very well for me. + / / I really tried to make this work with all of the combinations you mention, but the problem always came down to chinchou having abyssmal stats. Even with great evos it just wasn't enough. It's weak and frail, even with a great evo. That great evo can be better utilized on something else. + walls viviliion evos harder and is a better wish passer. It's "best" niche is as a wall to magneton, but outside of that matchup its not worth it imo. I really tried to make it work, but it's just very underwhelming. I agree with DK completely here. Trick room isn't very good. Poor typing, poor stats and no moves. Not worth it in any scenario imo. a fun thing mentioned here is that is the best counter out there to other , especially the 
variant. Especially for stall it's the best option out there. I think dusclops should be considered for A+ rank. I felt like it became more and more popular as the month went on last time is was OMOTM. I won't be laddering this month, but if this trend continues its worth considering. Really solid mon, especially reuniclus and garganacl variants. I think the others are suboptimal, while the former are both excellent utility mons. I guess this means I'm also suggesting that garganacl is rated as its best set, with reuniclus as a very close second. Chesnaught is probably third, the others aren't great imo. should definitely be rated on the VR as a set Dark Koopatrol. I haven't double checked everything, but I believe it holds the distinction of being the bulkiest mon in the tier. 252 Atk Choice Band Orichalcum Pulse Koraidon Outrage vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Fur Coat Vullaby: 145-172 (36.8 - 43.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO 
-1 252 Atk Choice Band Koraidon Outrage vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def (neutral) Slowpoke: 157-186 (29.4 - 34.8%) -- 9.6% chance to 3HKO 252 Atk Choice Band Orichalcum Pulse Koraidon Outrage vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Marvel Scale Gligar: 135-160 (27.8 - 33%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after burn damage
