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Tournament PUWC VI Format Discussion

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PU World Cup VI is on the horizon, and we’re looking for feedback on certain things before the tour begins.
  • How many teams should we have this year? For reference, we had 16 teams last year; is this good or should we change it?

  • What tiers should be included? We’ve done all SV for two years in a row, which has gone over well enough, but we still want to give people a choice here. Right now, the PU moderation team is considering the following options: 8 SV, 5 SV + 1 SS + 1 SM + 1 ORAS, and 4 SV + 1 SS + 1 SM + 1 ORAS + 1 BW. Please note that if neither of the other two options receive enough support, we will stick with all SV.

  • People also seem to prefer pools to weeks, so should we keep doing pools for the first round?
Share your thoughts or proposals about the above and anything else you'd like to add; don't use this thread to suggest different tour ideas and keep the discussion civil, thanks!
 
Personally, I think PU old gens are genuinely incredible and should attract a wider pool of lower tier enthusiasts.

As much as I love SV PU, this leads to a lot of building strain for a lot of territories and 8 SV PU is just too much imho.

With regards to pools, I like that idea.

This sounds good to me:

4 SV + 1 SS + 1 SM + 1 ORAS + 1 BW
 
PU old gens are still developing at a nice pace, adding them to PUWC would make all those even better while keeping it competitive for the current gen Mainers
I support the 4 SV + old gens until BW format
Regarding the number of teams, I'd say to not really change it but rather make it with whoever gets a lineup ready, if we have 16 teams or 19 teams, so be it. The more the better
I'm a fan of pools format so I'd like that we keep it as well. Weeks take longer and can get really tiring real fast
 
I personally don't see a lot of reason to change a working formula for PUWC. One of the major rationales behind WC being all current gen was it's the best time for development for the tier and SV PU still needs some serious development.

The oldgen focused tier comes right after this one and oldgens haven't felt a lack of rep. You know me, I love me some oldgens, but this just feels like it's an idea for the sake of change rather than because we need it.

For the sake of if oldgen inclusion does end up being the supported option - better to include all the preview gens as a package imo, so including up to BW.

Also yes pools are way better than weeks still.
 
As someone from a country with weak PU representation overall, I can't really support adding oldgens. There would be minimal team support for a gen where say germany has 1 bw player. Even worse if you got 0 gen mainers, much less pu gen mainers in your country, in which case you will essentially be accounting for a certain loss every week or a lost group.

As Aurist said, I don't think there is a need to change a working formula, especially this close to the end of the gen's lifespan. SV PU basically hit a reset button right now, needs proper development, and will make for more exciting matches for those reasons. Adding oldgens will give certain areas unfair advantages and will for that reason also make certain groups insanely boring to watch.

8 SV
 
Aurist said:
One of the major rationales behind WC being all current gen was it's the best time for development for the tier and SV PU still needs some serious development.
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I agree with that but, as Joe said, I also think 8 slots is a bit too much.
It is usually very hard to find 8 people per country who have some knowledge in this tier and are willing to build for themselves, so it often comes down to a group of 2-3 people that will build (or at least do most of the work) for the whole team, and I think reducing the number of slots they have to build for can increase the quality of the teams, as they will have more time to test their ideas and won't be forced to re-use many times to gain some time.

I think 4-5 slots is well enough to give the tier a fresh look, and adding old gens makes it feel more like a world cup of PU to me, where we test a country on it's knowledge of PU in general and not just on it's knowledge of the 9th generation.

Corvy said:
gen where say germany has 1 bw player.
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feaniix was goated in BW PU a few years ago... And didn't jaajgko play it too ?

Tbh I think full SV just rewards having 1-2 good builders and then SV mercenaries, while old gens rewards people actually getting into learning the PUs, which is good imo

And also I don't think it's that hard to find people playing old gens OUs that are willing to try a low tier of that old gen for a wcup, idk if it's just in France or not but we always have some people interested in it

Oh and I don't really like the argument that "now is not the time to change it" because when will it be the time ? Say in 1 year there will be a new generation, we won't change the format because we need the gen10pu to develop. Then 1 year later there will be a DLC, we won't change the format for the tier to develop. Then the next year there will be some big shifts, etc etc...

Also that might be a hot take but when did "we don't have a lot of PU players so please change the format so that the tournaments doesn't reward having an active PU community" became the norm ? lol
I get that everyone wants to get a fair chance in the tour but I feel like it's normal for countries that have tried to develop their playerbase for years to have a better shot

That being said, I hope the tournament will make as much people happy as possible, and imo diversity is a bit more fun than full SV so that would be what I would prefer to see personally
 
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I think the format should stay with 8 SV slots. For countries that don’t have many PU players, it’s extremely difficult to find players for the old gens. If the decision is made to include older gens, it should only go down to BW.

Especially now, with the meta having changed and most players trying to adapt to it, adding older gens would just make things more chaotic. Another important point is that there aren’t many players who enjoy playing PU, since the tier isn’t as popular as the others.
 
Just to reiterate my point, the format isn't here to support people who don't know PU well.

PUWC should reflect the general levels of PU understanding and skill from each region and from there comes the competition.

If it's just 'we got 7 clickers and one builder' for the World Cup, clicking is being tested more than PU knowledge and skill.

Old Gens gives an opportunity for a more profound and interesting depth of competition as well as including some of the best old gen metagames on the site.

I know that it's unfortunate for regions with fewer players but as you just mentioned, SV PU isn't as popular as the others... so let's bring the incredibly fun and cool old gens into the mix!

Last post I'll make, sorry for waffle.
 
xSuko said:
Another important point is that there aren’t many players who enjoy playing PU, since the tier isn’t as popular as the others.
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This applies to SV pu as well, and the main reason why I thing adding gens 5-8 will help the tour. It's quite hard to find 8 people who are all interested in playing the same tier.

I agree with points made above about 8 SV pu encouraging "pilots + 1-2 builders", and I don't think this is what we want the tour to be. If most of your slots are pilots who aren't building their own teams then dropping the SV slots from 8 to 4 doesn't change the "metagame development" aspect of the tour (I personally think saying that we need this tour to develop the meta is a ludicrous argument anyway).

Also from my experience having more tiers (within reason) actually encourages activity and creativity amongst the team. Instead of complaining that you won't have a builder / mainer for a certain tier, why not come together as a team and learn / solve the tier yourselves? That's the most fun aspect of tours like these from my experience. What happened to the warrior spirit?
 
Wasn't gonna weigh in because my interest in this tour wavers a bit but I was talking with friends and I have an idea?

I wanna preface by saying I think both the 8 sv and 4 sv 1ss-bw formats have merit but, with concerns over certain regions adjusting to half of the slots being old gens and other concerns about the stress building 8 sv slots can bring i think a good compromise is doing
(5SV 1SS 1SM 1ORAS) or inotherwords only doing fairy gens for the olds.
To me this helps because it keeps the tour as majority SV PU and still allows people to build and test multiple tiers without things getting stale.
I think this format is best, curious if im way off tho.
 
  • Agree in favour of making the shift from 8 SV.
  • Prefer 5SV-1SS-1SM-1ORAS. I think BW is different enough mechanics wise to warrant it being excluded, and that it would be comparitively tougher for every region to field someone half competent. Besides, by keeping majority of the slots CG, the teams that were good before will still be good. Relevant to note that other subforumWCs usually stick to mastersgens when including oldgens (with the exception of LC, which includes all its oldgens).
  • Personally prefer weeks to pools. There's a certain hype aspect with regards to pools, with the third weekend being one of the most fun experiences of the tour, but weeks as a whole is more structured and healthy imo. Easier to manage 1 game per week both as a player/manager.
 
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I think 5 SV Slots > 4 SV Slots just because we had some pretty important shifts, and I think this tour will be really integral to the development of the tier. I don't think cutting down from 8 SV -> 5 SV is going to cut development of the tier by much if at all, but I still think 8 SV would be ideal? If not, PUWC being the "Fairy gen" tour (SV-ORAS) kinda makes it feel like PUWC is staying faithful to its nature as a more "modern" tournament at the very least.

DD Joe said:
As much as I love SV PU, this leads to a lot of building strain for a lot of territories and 8 SV PU is just too much imho.
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This is the opposite of what happens usually, WC teams should work together and be a cohesive team as is the nature of a jerk-y tour. Working together as a team to "solve" SVPU is what made the tour so interesting to me and I imagine others. Strain on the builder speaks more to team chemistry than the format or inner-workings of a full CG tournament tbh.

Excited for PUWC :heart:
 
this tour coincides with the later weeks of scl so i really don't think it needs a large number of sv slots for metagame development to be sufficient during this period, besides, you get diminishing returns on this front the more sv slots you have, and last year there were quite a lot of scl teams being reused here because it's hard when u have 2/3 builders to make 24 good teams over 3 weeks...
i like 4sv + ss-bw, don't think it is actually that hard to pick up one of the preview gens and become somewhat viable tbh. everyone and their mother has these megapastes with 700 oras teams anyway so it's not like you need to learn to build or anything...
 
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