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Super Smash Brothers Brawl Discussion #3
- Thread starter Steelicks
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king dededes is harder to avoid than you say.
lucas and ness's is easy to avoid, but you WILL get hit at least once. usually.
lucas and ness's is easy to avoid, but you WILL get hit at least once. usually.
Wait, are we talking about camping or rolling? Camping is only a reliable tactic for a few characters, namely those that have a strong projectile and strong smashes (Wolf, Pit). Rolling is a move that varies with the character (I believe), and if someone is constantly rolling, gives a very small window of opportunity to hit. Using a Dsmash won't always work if they 1) roll away from it and hit you in your lag, 2) you're facing the wrong way, or 3) you have a two-part Dsmash (like Toon Link or Ike) and they roll through the first part, which leaves you wide open while you're forced to finish your attack. This also doesn't take into account that the characters most likely to roll are the ones with an impressive range (Lucario, Olimar, etc.). THAT'S what I need help with.
I found this
http://www.brawlcentral.com/content.php?p=character/lucario/main
They don't have all of the characters, but it seems pretty comprehensive.
http://www.brawlcentral.com/content.php?p=character/lucario/main
They don't have all of the characters, but it seems pretty comprehensive.
Let's talk about Marth.
I've been playing a lot of Marth. Most of my game revolves around approaching and hitting with a F-air tip. The F-air is just such a great move.
I've been having problems using his down-tilt and his n-air though. As for the down-tilt, the only time I've really been able to get use out of it is when I'm facing a ledge and my opponent is in front of me, I can down-tilt him and he'll go off the ledge and down (where I'll stand to try to hit with a F-smash to kill him or something). As for my the n-air, I just don't seem to use it very much...what are some good situations for it where it's better then f-air?
I also think I have trouble getting use out of his side-B. It's always either a choice of side-B or "jab", and for some reason I have a lot of trouble getting the timing on the side-B correct. I generally hit the buttons too fast...and when I slow it down, I do it a lot slower than I see in videos of Marth playing. Speaking of which, what's the difference between the third "up" hit and the third "down" hit -- they both essentially combo into the fourth hit regardless of what it is.
I've been playing a lot of Marth. Most of my game revolves around approaching and hitting with a F-air tip. The F-air is just such a great move.
I've been having problems using his down-tilt and his n-air though. As for the down-tilt, the only time I've really been able to get use out of it is when I'm facing a ledge and my opponent is in front of me, I can down-tilt him and he'll go off the ledge and down (where I'll stand to try to hit with a F-smash to kill him or something). As for my the n-air, I just don't seem to use it very much...what are some good situations for it where it's better then f-air?
I also think I have trouble getting use out of his side-B. It's always either a choice of side-B or "jab", and for some reason I have a lot of trouble getting the timing on the side-B correct. I generally hit the buttons too fast...and when I slow it down, I do it a lot slower than I see in videos of Marth playing. Speaking of which, what's the difference between the third "up" hit and the third "down" hit -- they both essentially combo into the fourth hit regardless of what it is.
The nair last longer and covers more area than the fair. If you miss with the fair, it leaves you open for a bit before you can do another fair. Characters with high aerial maneuverability such as Wario and Jigglypuff can strike you between your fairs. Nair on the other hand, covers Marth on both sides, and strikes twice, making it more difficult for you opponent to dodge.
Basically it's easier to hit with the nair, especially with WiFi lag.
I think marth's side b "down" third hit still spikes but I'm not sure.
Genius
@Jibaku: I remember getting on of Marth's side b hits to spike, gotta test it more later
who do you guys think is the best camper?
my vote would have to go to pit. his smashes all have good range, and his projectile is faster than wolfs. wolf, however, has a slower projectile, and only his f-smash has good range, though wolf is still a good camper.
my vote would have to go to pit. his smashes all have good range, and his projectile is faster than wolfs. wolf, however, has a slower projectile, and only his f-smash has good range, though wolf is still a good camper.
More on Marth: I don't find myself using his down-air very much. It's a meteor if you hit with the tip (and can hit at angles depending on what part you hit with it), but it has so much lag near the end it's pretty much a death sentence if you use it at or below stage level without being -on- the stage. And when people recover, they're either going to do it really high (above your range), or low (you'll fall to your death thanks to the lag), so that takes out most of the uses right there. (And if they recover mid, it seems more accurate and useful to hit them off again with f-airs or something. You can and should even go out to meet them!)
The VERY few times I've been able to use this move well is when I have them right by the ledge or slightly on stage and I'm on stage and can hit them at a slight angle down and off. Beyond rare situations like that, though, the move feels useless.
The VERY few times I've been able to use this move well is when I have them right by the ledge or slightly on stage and I'm on stage and can hit them at a slight angle down and off. Beyond rare situations like that, though, the move feels useless.
surgo, its easy to recover after a dair if you follow the rules of a ken combo.
1. hit fair
2. wait teh second
3. JUMP
4. spike at the peak of the jump.
if you do that, and you are at a reasonable distance, you will be fine.
you CAN still ken combo in brawl.
1. hit fair
2. wait teh second
3. JUMP
4. spike at the peak of the jump.
if you do that, and you are at a reasonable distance, you will be fine.
you CAN still ken combo in brawl.
that was magnificent
Let's not talk about Marth, who's been a dickhead since the last installment and had no discernable changes (read: nerfs) made to her. Me, I'm gonna wrap up on the "camping" thing...
Pit isn't the best camper, he's the best run-away douche bag. Some may consider these the same thing, but still. The character best able to "hold their ground" is Snake, easily. I've already been over this, so I'll keep it short: he has so many delayed attacks it's ridiculous how much field control he has, all his projectiles are explosive so they can't even be reflected back at him, Nikita plows through every projectile not named Din's Fire to mitigate other long-range projectile whores from abusing his large size and sluggishness (sans Snakedashing), his jab attack and FTilt are insanely good if you ever do get inside, and he's one of the heaviest characters in the game (with great recovery to boot!) so he'll gladly trade blows or even tank a few of his own Grenades and mines if it takes the opponent with him.
Honorable mention to Wolf and Toon Link for reasons I don't care to cover.
Pit isn't the best camper, he's the best run-away douche bag. Some may consider these the same thing, but still. The character best able to "hold their ground" is Snake, easily. I've already been over this, so I'll keep it short: he has so many delayed attacks it's ridiculous how much field control he has, all his projectiles are explosive so they can't even be reflected back at him, Nikita plows through every projectile not named Din's Fire to mitigate other long-range projectile whores from abusing his large size and sluggishness (sans Snakedashing), his jab attack and FTilt are insanely good if you ever do get inside, and he's one of the heaviest characters in the game (with great recovery to boot!) so he'll gladly trade blows or even tank a few of his own Grenades and mines if it takes the opponent with him.
Honorable mention to Wolf and Toon Link for reasons I don't care to cover.
What is this Nikita? I've heard that name before and I can't remember where. Also, how does Snake cancel his missiles in air? I never figured that one out....
Agreeing that Marth is still a beast. Also posting to say that his Dair can hit opponents on the ground. It's got some lag, but is good if you can hit because it has complete horizontal knockback, leading to a plethora of combos.
Agreeing that Marth is still a beast. Also posting to say that his Dair can hit opponents on the ground. It's got some lag, but is good if you can hit because it has complete horizontal knockback, leading to a plethora of combos.
The Nikita is his Side-B. Guide-able Missile Launcher from the the games.
You can cancel the missiles by hitting shield.
Nikita is the missile. And you cancel it by shielding.
And I can't wait until I get to play my friends without Wifi tomorrow. There are just enough delays to screw Pit over.
also, for anyone looking to counter campers, try kirby. Copy the projectile, you become shorter than their's when you shoot. Might not work so well on some of the heavier campers, but Kirby rapes Pit.
i forgot about snake. he is definately the best camper.
Make that one haha. It's about time too. I've been here for almost 2 years o_o
The main issue is if the opponent airdodges safely away before Marth can pull out the dair, which is very likely most of the time thanks to the low hitstun of everything
Marth's dtilt is amazing. You can actually cancel it's ending lag with a shield now, which you couldn't do in melee. It's one of Marth's safest moves.
You can cancel its ending lag with literally anything; it's IASA some noticably low frame.SonicZeroX said:
Alright, let's talk a bit about Meta Knight. I've been using him a bit lately, and I have two noticable problems:
1) Against anyone with a gay teleport-style recovery. Like Pikachu, ugh.
2) Just off the stage in general. I can't get them to go where I want them to go when I hit them.
I seriously have no idea where to hit with most of his moves to send them where. It seems like they get sent in wildly different directions that I haven't figured out yet. Especially with his down-air. Can anyone tell me about the correct spots to hit to make people go in which way with his aerial moves? This would, obviously, improve my Meta Knight play drastically.
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