Gliscor is NOT 100% Heracross counter

umbarsc

is a Contributor Alumnus
People are often saying this, when it's not true at all. There are two viable sets that beats Gliscor.

Heracross @ Life Orb
Ability: Guts
68 SpA / 200 Spe / 240 Atk
Naughty Nature (+Atk, -SpD)
- Close Combat
- Megahorn
- Stone Edge
- Hidden Power [Ice]

Sacrificing a bit of Atk for the ability to always 2HKO standard Gliscor isn't a bad trade-off, so this set is actually pretty usable.

Heracross @ Flame Orb
Ability: Guts
252 Atk / 252 Spe / 4 HP
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SpA)
- Swords Dance
- Facade
- Close Combat
- Megahorn

With a tripled attack stat after a Swords Dance, this has almost zero counters. The closest thing to 'counters' would be Fire Punch Dusknoir or defensive Salamence.

Just thought I'd clear this up.

Discuss.
 
What's to discuss? I'd never use a Hp ice heracross. It may be usable, but it's not great. I mean, speed AND attack just for a poke that could be countered by another poke. I like to use heracross to it's full potential, and these sets don't allow you to.

Second set: yeah sure, SD and then outspeed xD
 
Heracross @ Flame Orb
Ability: Guts
252 Atk / 252 Spe / 4 HP
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SpA)
- Swords Dance
- Facade
- Close Combat
- Megahorn
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Gliscor used Aerial Ace?
 
the hp ice thing is just nonsense, i new eventually some newb would bring this up.

the second set is fine
 
The first set is still killed by Gliscor. Some into CC for example. Glicor can hit you with a nice Arieal Ace/Stone Edge. Even if you outspeed Gliscor can still kill you.
 
What's wrong with HP Ice? If the opposing team has a Gliscor, your Heracross is worthless if they play smart and keep it alive. Even if the opposing team doesn't use Gliscor, 240 Atk EVs and a Life Orb with a positive nature still hits quite hard. It's not like you're doing bullshit like Specs, because the lack of 68 EVs aren't going to make a big difference on your Speed/Attack.

And 254 Spe (Gliscor) vs. 269 Spe (Heracross)? How would Gliscor find the time to Aerial Ace? Facade is a OHKO with Stealth Rocks, after a Swords Dance.
 
I've ran Hidden Power Ice on Heracross, and despite that MANY toss it aside, it actually isn't a bad option. It does seem noobish, but it works, and it's not the most horrible set made. Too bad that a 2HKO doesn't help you and Aerial Ace is ass against you. It requires prediction I guess...

The problem is, however, that Life Orb itself proves to add too much recoil. Sandstorm, entry hazards, and Life Orb is just almost too much. 22% per turn is... painful. Add a chance of BURN onto this, and it's 34%. So yeah, I myself prefer the Choice Band set over it.
 
umbarsc said:
What's wrong with HP Ice? If the opposing team has a Gliscor, your Heracross is worthless if they play smart and keep it alive. Even if the opposing team doesn't use Gliscor, 240 Atk EVs and a Life Orb with a positive nature still hits quite hard. It's not like you're doing bullshit like Specs, because the lack of 68 EVs aren't going to make a big difference on your Speed/Attack.

And 254 Spe (Gliscor) vs. 269 Spe (Heracross)? How would Gliscor find the time to Aerial Ace? Facade is a OHKO with Stealth Rocks, after a Swords Dance.
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Some Gliscors do run 270 speed. I usually run a jolly one with 303 speed...
 
umbarsc said:
What's wrong with HP Ice? If the opposing team has a Gliscor, your Heracross is worthless if they play smart and keep it alive. Even if the opposing team doesn't use Gliscor, 240 Atk EVs and a Life Orb with a positive nature still hits quite hard. It's not like you're doing bullshit like Specs, because the lack of 68 EVs aren't going to make a big difference on your Speed/Attack.

And 254 Spe (Gliscor) vs. 269 Spe (Heracross)? How would Gliscor find the time to Aerial Ace? Facade is a OHKO with Stealth Rocks, after a Swords Dance.
Click to expand...

Which isn't the set I was talking about, I'm sure a Mawile (Blue Harvest's set) with a fight resist berry beats both TBH.
 
umbarsc said:
What's wrong with HP Ice? If the opposing team has a Gliscor, your Heracross is worthless if they play smart and keep it alive. Even if the opposing team doesn't use Gliscor, 240 HP EVs and a Life Orb with a positive nature still hits quite hard. It's not like you're doing bullshit like Specs, because the lack of 68 EVs aren't going to make a big difference on your Speed/Attack.

And 254 Spe (Gliscor) vs. 269 Spe (Heracross)? How would Gliscor find the time to Aerial Ace? Facade is a OHKO with Stealth Rocks, after a Swords Dance.
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Yes facade is a OHKO with SR, so? You have to realise Heracross isn't going to outspeed anything more. Even if you let him SD (>.>), you can still kill it. And still, you have to know the opponent has a gliscor.

The second hera needs almost a perfect situation or it will be dead.
 
Shiny Crobat said:
What's to discuss? I'd never use a Hp ice heracross. It may be usable, but it's not great. I mean, speed AND attack just for a poke that could be countered by another poke. I like to use heracross to it's full potential, and these sets don't allow you to.

Second set: yeah sure, SD and then outspeed xD
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Sacrificing 68 SpA EVs to avoid being countered by a quite common Pokemon seems like a decent trade-off.

Jibaku said:
Gliscor used Aerial Ace?
Click to expand...

Heracross used Facade?

Janenmori said:
This is just ridiculous. Gliscor outspeeds and kills easily.
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With what nature/EV spread?

Angel Diva said:
lol maybe Hera could run HP Psychic so it can kill Weezing(not)
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Weezing isn't as popular as Gliscor. In fact, it should be moved to BL once the tiers are updated. In any case, Weezing will die to Swords Danced Facade, so no worries here.

superhammerhead said:
This is just like that noob trying to get us to use hpfire weaviles...LOL
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rofl, you sound like a simpleton.
 
In his defense, need I remind you that a counter has to be able to switch in. Standard Gliscor cannot switch into the first set and is outsped.

The second set, however, will not work as Facade after a Swords Dance only has a 1 in 39 chance of an OHKO on standard Gliscor. Even after factoring in Stealth Rock, Gliscor has a ~20.5% chance of surviving Facade.
 
Jibaku said:
The chances of SD Guts 140 BP Facade OHKOing is nearly zero, and needs SR support, which still won't guarantee its death
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The odds are approximately 4/5 that it will OHKO, assuming Stealth Rocks, which doesn't do Gliscor any favors. It's like Salamence using Hydro Pump against Gliscor, and no one is favoring gliscor in the Specsmence vs. Gliscor matchup.
 
People are'nt even trying to see if the Hera is useful anymore (I would'nt use it, however), they're just calling each other newbs and starting a flame war. :/
 
A little tip for your SD set is to have odd HP. Take that HP EV away and put it in SDef or Def. The reason being that if you manage to destroy things without getting hit, it'll allow you to deliver 1 more hit before Heracross dies to burn, because he'll be at 1 HP because of the odd number.
 
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