travisurfer's Wi-fi Team Thread

[travisurfer]

Ok, so I normally have some trouble making teams but I may have finally broken through and made something that is able to take on the biggest threats while still being balanced offensively. This team started with a Zapdos/Bronzong/Vaporeon core when I discovered how well they work together. Anyway, here is the team. I hope that you will take the time to read through everything I've written and help constructively criticize this team to make it even better.

@Choice Scarf
Naive-Levitate
42 Atk/252 SpAtk/216 Spe
~Psychic
~Flamethrower
~Grass Knot/Thunderbolt
~U-Turn
Azelf is a pokemon that I've never really used before but it seems like the perfect lead for this team. With this spread, it gets amazing coverage on the most common leads while outspeeding them. I chose Naive and 216 to always outspeed and OHKO Timid Scarfgar which I think is quite important in this metagame to be able to get the one up on the opponent. Grass Knot has better coverage against the more common leads but Thunderbolt allows me to take out Gyarados before he becomes a problem. Zapdos can beat most sets but a Life Orb Gyarados with Stone Edge could otherwise pose some issues for this team. If I can't beat the opponent, I can U-Turn to the appropriate counter. Outside of the lead spot, this Azelf acts as my primary revenge killer to keep my opponent in check.

@Life Orb
Adamant-Inner Focus
6 HP/252 Atk/252 Spe
~Swords Dance
~Close Combat
~Crunch
~Extremespeed
SD Lucario is by far one of the best physical sweepers in the game. I've found that a solid physical sweeper is essential to this team to either free up Dragonite's counters for a clean sweep or clean up the aftermath. Lucario works amazing well due to its great resistances but I do like the ability of SD Guts Heracross to OHKO Gliscor with Facade. Either way seems like a good option to me though.

@Yache Berry
Jolly-Inner Focus
6 HP/252 Atk/252 Spe
~Dragon Dance
~Outrage
~Fire Punch
~Earthquake
Dragonite has been my favorite late-game sweeper since DP came out. Some may argue that it is outclassed in various aspects but it fills a certain niche on my teams that leave it to be outclassed by nothing. On this team, I've chosen to max speed because this is meant to be a sweeper and it seems like everything is running a scarf nowadays. I tend to use Lum Berry to go for another round of Outrage; however, Yache Berry could help this thing come in a bit earlier while Life Orb pushes many pokes into the KO range.

@Leftovers
Bold-Water Absorb
188 HP/252 Def/68 SpAtk
~Surf
~Ice Beam
~Wish
~Protect
Vaporeon is the inner core of this team providing defensive wish support. Thanks to its incredible bulkiness and typing, Mixape and Heatran are countered and taken out. This really protects Bronzong from getting roasted early game. Wish also allows Bronzong to switch in easier and nullifies Stealth Rock for Zapdos and Dragonite while resisting Ice attacks directed at them.

@Leftovers
Bold-Pressure
252 HP/220 Def/32 Spe
~Thunderbolt
~HP Ice
~Roost
~Reflect
Without Zapdos, I would be 6-0'd by opposing Lucario and Heracross. Thanks to Zapdos great typing and stats, this is no longer an issue as Lucario can't do much against me. HP Ice is just one more level of my defenses agaisnt the dragons. They are all to common to be overlooked so I need to be absolutely certain that I have all of my bases covered. The last move is really up for grabs, Reflect lets Zapdos tank more physically non-resisted hits while Thunderwave is always a plus, but this team isn't as slow as some of my other teams. Of course, Drill Peck is an option as well if I need the OHKO on Heracross.

@Leftovers
Sassy-Levitate
252 HP/56 Atk/200 SpD
~Gyro Ball
~Earthquake
~Stealth Rock
~Light Screen
A special tank Bronzong is something I don't normally see much of. Either way, Steel/Psychic provides a great type combination with a plethora of resists which most notably includes Dragon and Rock. Bronzong is here as my main counters to Tyranitar, Mamoswine, and Salamence which would otherwise destroy this team. As a result of this, I have found that both Earthquake and Gyro Ball are necessities. Hypnosis is a bit inaccurate for my tastes so Light Screen is here to provide a different form of team support. Thanks to resisting Outrage, this can still take out Garchomp but the EVs are more so allocated to take out special threats so this is slightly limited. Speaking of which, I decided to give this some attack so that its Gyro Balls and Earthquakes are able to do some serious damage while still being able to take some special oriented hits.

Again, the basic goal of this team is to be able to take my opponents hits while still being able to setup for a massive sweep. If you'll notice, only two of my pokemon are succeptible to Spikes and only one is affected by Toxic Spikes. So, what does that mean exactly? It means that I can let my opponent setup as much of that crap as they want and send out their spin blocker for no reason. If my opponent wants to setup 5 layers of Spikes, that means I essentially get 5 free turns to either setup or hit hard. I do run Stealth Rock because nothing is more annoying than a Focus Sash ruining a sweep and due to the fact that it makes so many different pokes and easier KO. I do want to note that this is a Wi-fi team so keep that in mind when rating the team. I really don't have to worry about Deoxys or Wobbufet running around, although it doesn't seem like they are too much of a threat to this team.

Changes so far:
Lum Berry switched with Yache Berry on Dragonite

Thanks in advance for the team rate. :)

 

[azntrumpet]

I wouldn't lead Azelf as you're just offering up a sacrifice to CBTar and CBVile. Yes, you can get Pursuited through U-Turn.

I see DDGyrados (especially w/ SR up) being a problem, as well as Yache/Salac Garchomp. I'd really run Thunderbolt/HP Ice on ScarfZelf for some extra insurance.

That's all for now, I'll take a look later because I have to go.

 

[Raj]

I don't see CBVile as a threat since Azelf is faster and brings down Weavile with Flamethrower.
Generally, I prefer Dragonite with Yache, only Lum if its my lead, and Life Orb Nite would be a mistake since you'll take damage the turn you DD and then each time you attack.
Nice work and good luck!

 

[travisurfer]

I wouldn't lead Azelf as you're just offering up a sacrifice to CBTar and CBVile. Yes, you can get Pursuited through U-Turn.

I see DDGyrados (especially w/ SR up) being a problem, as well as Yache/Salac Garchomp. I'd really run Thunderbolt/HP Ice on ScarfZelf for some extra insurance.

That's all for now, I'll take a look later because I have to go.

Well, Azelf outspeeds and OHKO's Weavile with Flamethrower, but you do have a valid point about Tyranitar. Grass Knot could help, but Thunderbolt simply provides better coverage against Gyarados having his way with my team.

I don't see CBVile as a threat since Azelf is faster and brings down Weavile with Flamethrower.
Generally, I prefer Dragonite with Yache, only Lum if its my lead, and Life Orb Nite would be a mistake since you'll take damage the turn you DD and then each time you attack.
Nice work and good luck!

Yache will definitely be considered. The ability to Dragon Dance up a second time against Scarfgar just sounds smexy not to mention the ability to get rid of Mamoswine. I don't think I'll go with a Life Orb because Lucario is already taking residual damage and its not quite as useful without Roost. Speaking of which, Magnezone could always be an option to trap the steels but it would really only be useful over Azelf who provides the extra speed necessary to take out some of the major threats.

 

[ToF]

I suggest you lead with Bronzong, seeing as how CBTar picks you off easily, and you're out a revenge killer. Leading with Bronzong first also allows you to get an easy Stealth Rock up, which is necessary to KO some of SDLuke's counters.

This team is fairly Garchomp weak. After a Swords Dance, nothing you have really stops it. Yache varients will really trouble you. Tyranitar gives you problems as well, and Bronzong as your "counter" isn't EV'd properly to take it on (CB Crunch 2HKO's you).

To remedy these problems, I suggest replacing Zapdos with Gliscor for a more solid Lucario/Garchomp/Heracross counter.

I suggest also slotting HP Ice on Azelf to net a kill on a Yacheless Garchomp, preferably over Flamethrower, since you should have Weavile covered with Bronzong.

 

[azntrumpet]

If Weavile is EV'd properly, it can surviv your Azelf's Flamethrower and OHKO back w/ Pursuit. I strongly suggest not leading Azelf, because if you get Pursuited, you get 6-0'd by DD Gyrados. Also a problem should Azelf be Pursuited is opposing NPAzelfs. This team just doesn't like CBTar in general, you have no safe switchins.

Another problem, albeit extremely uncommon is Raikou, as Bronzong won't appreciate repeated Thunderbolts once they find out you don't have an Electric resist. It's pretty much gg if they use it in tandem with Magnezone.

 

[travisurfer]

I suggest you lead with Bronzong, seeing as how CBTar picks you off easily, and you're out a revenge killer. Leading with Bronzong first also allows you to get an easy Stealth Rock up, which is necessary to KO some of SDLuke's counters.

This team is fairly Garchomp weak. After a Swords Dance, nothing you have really stops it. Yache varients will really trouble you. Tyranitar gives you problems as well, and Bronzong as your "counter" isn't EV'd properly to take it on (CB Crunch 2HKO's you).

To remedy these problems, I suggest replacing Zapdos with Gliscor for a more solid Lucario/Garchomp/Heracross counter.

I suggest also slotting HP Ice on Azelf to net a kill on a Yacheless Garchomp, preferably over Flamethrower, since you should have Weavile covered with Bronzong.

Alright, let's see here. Bronzong is starting to look like a nice lead although I don't really like the idea of it being setup fodder for Tauntdos.

Ok, I figured Garchomp wouldn't be as much of an issue due to the fact that it has a hard time switching it and can be handled by a good portion of the team. What do you suggest I do against CBTar? I have Bronzong that I could make into a more mixed wall but then I will really have to watch the special hits and rely on Azelf even more to revenge kill although that isn't necessarily a bad thing.

I know this is a competitive forum, but I simply cannot stand Gliscor. Not only that, but I find the extra 4x Ice weakness unsettling to a team that already struggles against Ice attacks. Zapdos is able to counter Lucario and Heracross just as well although I will have to run some more calcs on Garchomp. I'll post them later when I get a chance.

I'll give HP Ice a try then. I was really leaning towards some extra coverage against steel types but if you think its necessary to take out Chomp, I'll start the testing.

If Weavile is EV'd properly, it can survive your Azelf's Flamethrower and OHKO back w/ Pursuit. I strongly suggest not leading Azelf, because if you get Pursuited, you get 6-0'd by DD Gyrados. Also a problem should Azelf be Pursuited is opposing NPAzelfs. This team just doesn't like CBTar in general, you have no safe switchins.

Another problem, albeit extremely uncommon is Raikou, as Bronzong won't appreciate repeated Thunderbolts once they find out you don't have an Electric resist. It's pretty much gg if they use it in tandem with Magnezone.

I never knew people ran a more defensive Weavile, or at least I've never faced one. Ok, so we've established that CBTar, Azelf, and Raikou can all pose some problems here but are there any ideas to help fix this? They are serious threats to this team, but they also do have some issues switching in. Jolteon provides a nice Electric immunity and could go in the place of Azelf as a revenge killer, albeit somewhat weaker, and Bronzong could become more defensive for Tar, which leaves me open to some of the larger special hitters. Blissey is the obvious choice but I'm not exactly sure how to fit this in here.

Ok, so, all-in-all, what is necessary to fixing this team as there have been a few weaknesses pointed out?

 

[ToF]

If you dislike Bronzong being set-up fodder for Gyarados, add HP Electric on Vaporeon or Bronzong. Simple solution.

Gliscor is a necessity IMO. It is something that covers everything you are weak to barring Raikou. You have Vaporeon and Bronzong to soak up ice attacks as well, so I see no problem with the switch other than your personal views.

Now that I am looking at it, Yache Berry might be the better choice on Dragonite. Gives your team extra life and is a nice surprise.

 

[azntrumpet]

Only 40 HP EV's are neccessary on Weavile to survive an unboosted, neutral natured, Azelf. That still allows for max attack and enough speed to outrun base 120's.

While Jolteon does have an Electric immunity, it is just set-up fodder for Raikou unless it carries HP Ground (which you probably wouldn't want to breed for).

I'm agreeing with ToF on the Yache Berry. It does provide some extra insurance against Raikou, but only if you bring it in on revenge, when it is not behind a Sub. Seriously, if you're using this exclusively for WiFi, don't even worry about Raikou. It is nearly impossible to get a good HP Ice, legit Raikou.

Zapdos does a horrible job handling Heracross, compared to Gliscor, if it does not carry Drill Peck/HP Flying, neither of which is useful for anything else.

 

[travisurfer]

If you dislike Bronzong being set-up fodder for Gyarados, add HP Electric on Vaporeon or Bronzong. Simple solution.

Gliscor is a necessity IMO. It is something that covers everything you are weak to barring Raikou. You have Vaporeon and Bronzong to soak up ice attacks as well, so I see no problem with the switch other than your personal views.

Now that I am looking at it, Yache Berry might be the better choice on Dragonite. Gives your team extra life and is a nice surprise.

I'll run some calcs, but Bronzong is going to need some major EV investment to do anything majorly useful to Gyarados with HP Electric. I may be able to breed it onto Vaporeon but he then loses Ice Beam to take out the dragons. I'm not used to having a Gyarados weak so you have to forgive me. I normally run a bulky Porygon2 lead which screws over so many different things. I figured this team would probably benefit more from the speed Azelf grants for revenge killing though. What'd you think?

That's just it, Gliscor just doesn't seem like it's going to be filling up all of the holes. If a Tyraniboah get's a Sub up, I might as well call it good game because, if it has Ice Beam and Fire Blast, my walls are going to be in trouble. Granted, Zapdos isn't a 100% insurance either, but it can at least Roar it away. Again, like I said before, I'll run some calcs comparing Zapdos and Gliscor, both offensively and defensively, to see which would be the better fit.

I fully agree with the Yache Berry statement. It definitely looks to be the better choice due to the fact that I can either get an extra Dragon Dance in or go for one last hit. With Yache Chomp running around more and more, it seems like teams are adding extra insurance with more Ice attacks.

Only 40 HP EV's are neccessary on Weavile to survive an unboosted, neutral natured, Azelf. That still allows for max attack and enough speed to outrun base 120's.

While Jolteon does have an Electric immunity, it is just set-up fodder for Raikou unless it carries HP Ground (which you probably wouldn't want to breed for).

I'm agreeing with ToF on the Yache Berry. It does provide some extra insurance against Raikou, but only if you bring it in on revenge, when it is not behind a Sub. Seriously, if you're using this exclusively for WiFi, don't even worry about Raikou. It is nearly impossible to get a good HP Ice, legit Raikou.

Zapdos does a horrible job handling Heracross, compared to Gliscor, if it does not carry Drill Peck/HP Flying, neither of which is useful for anything else.

Ok, well Weavile could be an issue then. I could go for a +SpAtk nature, but then I'd lose to max speed Timid Scarfgar.

Yes, I did forget to mention that if I did breed for Jolteon, it would most likely be of the specs variety with HP Ground/Thunderbolt/Shadowball/Baton Pass to go over Azelf. That does seem like it is a bit overcentralizing for something that I'm entirely unlikely to ever really face on wi-fi.

Just for the record, I have seen Heracross SD against Gliscors lacking Aerial Ace. I could add a flying typed attack on Zapdos but I'm not really sure what that would acheive.

Yes, I know that I can be stubborn, but thank you so much for putting some time into a true rate. :)

 

[ToF]

I'll run some calcs, but Bronzong is going to need some major EV investment to do anything majorly useful to Gyarados with HP Electric. I may be able to breed it onto Vaporeon but he then loses Ice Beam to take out the dragons. I'm not used to having a Gyarados weak so you have to forgive me. I normally run a bulky Porygon2 lead which screws over so many different things. I figured this team would probably benefit more from the speed Azelf grants for revenge killing though. What'd you think?

That's just it, Gliscor just doesn't seem like it's going to be filling up all of the holes. If a Tyraniboah get's a Sub up, I might as well call it good game because, if it has Ice Beam and Fire Blast, my walls are going to be in trouble. Granted, Zapdos isn't a 100% insurance either, but it can at least Roar it away. Again, like I said before, I'll run some calcs comparing Zapdos and Gliscor, both offensively and defensively, to see which would be the better fit.

With a proper spread, Bronzong can 2HKO (3HKO at max anyway). You have Azelf to revenge kill just in case anyway, which is why I recommend leaving it from later.

As for Gliscor, it fixes the CBTar weakness. If you see a Boah sub, you have Vaporeon to sponge the attacks. It is all about what you see. Gliscor is a much better fit on this team. You have to play according to what the opponent gives you. Obviously Gliscor is counter number 1 to non-HP Ice SD Lucario's, but if you see Specs, you won't make that switch in. Zapdos roaring away a Tyranitar is the most insane idea I've ever heard. You risk eating a Stone Edge/Earthquake to the face. If Zapdos is your way of dealing with Tyranitar, you need a new counter lol.

As for your Heracross comment, would you rather worry about MoPCross or Garchomp, who is used probably quadruple the amount Hera is. Choice is yours, I'm not much of a WiFi person, but I assume that usage on WiFi is similar to that of shoddy, in which case I prefer Ice Fang.

 

[travisurfer]

With a proper spread, Bronzong can 2HKO (3HKO at max anyway). You have Azelf to revenge kill just in case anyway, which is why I recommend leaving it from later.

As for Gliscor, it fixes the CBTar weakness. If you see a Boah sub, you have Vaporeon to sponge the attacks. It is all about what you see. Gliscor is a much better fit on this team. You have to play according to what the opponent gives you. Obviously Gliscor is counter number 1 to non-HP Ice SD Lucario's, but if you see Specs, you won't make that switch in. Zapdos roaring away a Tyranitar is the most insane idea I've ever heard. You risk eating a Stone Edge/Earthquake to the face. If Zapdos is your way of dealing with Tyranitar, you need a new counter lol.

As for your Heracross comment, would you rather worry about MoPCross or Garchomp, who is used probably quadruple the amount Hera is. Choice is yours, I'm not much of a WiFi person, but I assume that usage on WiFi is similar to that of shoddy, in which case I prefer Ice Fang.

Ok, Gliscor could be a decent option, but I am still weary of an extra 4x Ice weak. Because Tyranitar is definitely still an issue, I've thought up a list of a few other counters that could still be useful:
Hitmontop: This not only takes out Tyranitar, but prevents Weavile and Lucario from ruining me thanks to priority. Heracross could still be problematic however. Access to rapid spin is always nice as well.
Machamp and Hariyama work in a much similar option although without the priority.
Donphan and Hippowdon are also quite effective.
Surprisingly, it looks like Tangrowth could also do the job although the lack of resisting Dark isn't too apealing.
There is always Skarmory but then Lucario and Heracross still have a field day with my team.

On a side note, what do you think about running Jolly on Lucario to outspeed Jolly Mamo?

 

[ToF]

Ok, Gliscor could be a decent option, but I am still weary of an extra 4x Ice weak. Because Tyranitar is definitely still an issue, I've thought up a list of a few other counters that could still be useful:
Hitmontop: This not only takes out Tyranitar, but prevents Weavile and Lucario from ruining me thanks to priority. Heracross could still be problematic however. Access to rapid spin is always nice as well.
Machamp and Hariyama work in a much similar option although without the priority.
Donphan and Hippowdon are also quite effective.
Surprisingly, it looks like Tangrowth could also do the job although the lack of resisting Dark isn't too apealing.
There is always Skarmory but then Lucario and Heracross still have a field day with my team.

On a side note, what do you think about running Jolly on Lucario to outspeed Jolly Mamo?

Machamp is a decent counter to Tyranitar, and probably one you would want to fit in, but the point about Gliscor is that it walls SDLucario and Heracross as well, something Machamp fails to do. It's basically your call, I've given you the threats you should worry about, and its your prerogative to accept or deny the criticism.

As for your second question, why would you change SDLuke to Jolly when Adamant + SR KO's half of the physical walls in the game that can stop your sweep? And to outspeed Mamoswine? Bronzong is counter #1 to all Mamoswine, so why wouldn't you switch that in? Adamant is the preferred nature to get the kill after a SD on stuff like Skarmory and Forretress.

 

[travisurfer]

Machamp is a decent counter to Tyranitar, and probably one you would want to fit in, but the point about Gliscor is that it walls SDLucario and Heracross as well, something Machamp fails to do. It's basically your call, I've given you the threats you should worry about, and its your prerogative to accept or deny the criticism.

As for your second question, why would you change SDLuke to Jolly when Adamant + SR KO's half of the physical walls in the game that can stop your sweep? And to outspeed Mamoswine? Bronzong is counter #1 to all Mamoswine, so why wouldn't you switch that in? Adamant is the preferred nature to get the kill after a SD on stuff like Skarmory and Forretress.

Alright thanks. I hope that you do understand why I am weary of Gliscor but you've at least convinced me to try it out.

Adamant it is :)

 

[Albatross2KO]

Azelf doesn't OHKO Weavile with Flamethrower. The most you can do with him is 97%, which means you will die.

As for the team as a whole, you get destroyed by any good player w/DD Tyranitar. You may want to consider Gliscor in there to help with your SD Luke weak as well.