looks like this sets a great precedent! maybe chaos should be sent to jail because a little girl cried over the smogon butterfree analysis? honestly, this is ridiculous
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13 year old commits suicide thanks to fake Myspace account. Discuss
- Thread starter SynysterCola
- Start date
This is just dumb. Here's why:
The mom originally registered an account to see what the deceased girl was saying about her daughter, probably badmouthing her, who the hell can say that she intended for the girl to kill herself? Nobody.
Anyway, if a child such as the deceased girl had self esteem issues and suffered of depression, the internet might sound like a really good place to hang out at, but in the end, isn't getting into relationships hard if you have a low self-esteem? This was a parenting flaw, if the mother knew that her daughter was thrilled when she told her a boy liked her, then we can assume the mother knew of the 'romance', it was the mother's duty to have a little talk about online relationships (and how far they can go or even exist) with her daughter, I mean, if she was emotionally unstable, she should have been monitored while she was using her computer, this isn't entirely the mom's fault, because all she did was fake an account, in the end, how many people haven't fake accounts just to target people into making them think they're friendly, just to make them feel bad? This was all that the mother was trying to do.
According to the video (http://edition.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/05/15/internet.suicide/index.html#cnnSTCVideo) the made-up Evans was her boyfriend, but how do you even become someone's boyfriend if you've never seen them? This is one of those ridiculous cases that always gives the same conclusion no matter what perspective you try to have: "parents, control your damn kids' time on the computer."
EDIT: And on a side-note and a bit off-topic, you see her profile on the video linked above, and I devoured the fact that she posed as being 16 years old in MySpace, this is just ridiculous.
The mom originally registered an account to see what the deceased girl was saying about her daughter, probably badmouthing her, who the hell can say that she intended for the girl to kill herself? Nobody.
Anyway, if a child such as the deceased girl had self esteem issues and suffered of depression, the internet might sound like a really good place to hang out at, but in the end, isn't getting into relationships hard if you have a low self-esteem? This was a parenting flaw, if the mother knew that her daughter was thrilled when she told her a boy liked her, then we can assume the mother knew of the 'romance', it was the mother's duty to have a little talk about online relationships (and how far they can go or even exist) with her daughter, I mean, if she was emotionally unstable, she should have been monitored while she was using her computer, this isn't entirely the mom's fault, because all she did was fake an account, in the end, how many people haven't fake accounts just to target people into making them think they're friendly, just to make them feel bad? This was all that the mother was trying to do.
According to the video (http://edition.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/05/15/internet.suicide/index.html#cnnSTCVideo) the made-up Evans was her boyfriend, but how do you even become someone's boyfriend if you've never seen them? This is one of those ridiculous cases that always gives the same conclusion no matter what perspective you try to have: "parents, control your damn kids' time on the computer."
EDIT: And on a side-note and a bit off-topic, you see her profile on the video linked above, and I devoured the fact that she posed as being 16 years old in MySpace, this is just ridiculous.
If you had read the original article, you would have known that the girl's mother did not condone such obsession with the internet. In fact, Megan had alredy been punished for making fake MySpace accounts, and was punished again when her mother found the chat logs between "Josh" and herself.
The mom is a loser for wasting her time with this crap
Anyway, people just shouldn't take strangers over the internet too seriously. I wouldn't care about somebody I met over the internet, because I haven't really met them. I could cuss all your asses out right now for no reason other than for fun.
It's just the internet. Not real life.
Anyway, people just shouldn't take strangers over the internet too seriously. I wouldn't care about somebody I met over the internet, because I haven't really met them. I could cuss all your asses out right now for no reason other than for fun.
It's just the internet. Not real life.
For one the parents are pretty stupid for not directly talking to the parents of the one childed. But the parents of the girl that committed suicide should of educated their daughter about myspace or at least paid attention to what she was doing on a myspace account.
This is another case of bad parenting. But what can you do when people are that stupid and lazy. Well thats humanity in a nut shell for you.
This is another case of bad parenting. But what can you do when people are that stupid and lazy. Well thats humanity in a nut shell for you.
Uh, I think people calling the Meier parents into question about their lack of interest and suspiscion of their daughters activities on Myspace should read the original article posted on the first page of this thread
The mother tried her best to monitor what was going on between her daughter and this Myspace guy, and even attempted to get him checked out by the police. While one could argue that, knowing about their daughter's emotional state, the Meier's maybe should have limited her internet access even more severely, it seems to me like the mom was doing everything she could to protect her daughter.
While I'm not sure if this crime actually merits 20 years, I'm not going to lie, I think that lady deserves it. I mean seriously, they made it clear in the article that she was aware of this girl's shaky mental state, and I honestly don't see how she could have believed that nothing bad would come out of harassing a depressed overweight 13 year old girl. It is ridiculous how immature that is - if she wanted to know what the girl was saying about her daughter she could have... uh i don't know asked the parents, or even the girl. Instead, she orchestrated an elaborate hoax to taunt the girl. So again, while I'm not sure if their crime is really worth 20 years from a legal perspective, from my own perspective I think it is an extremely fucked up thing to do, and that this lady deserves all the punishment she's getting.
The mother tried her best to monitor what was going on between her daughter and this Myspace guy, and even attempted to get him checked out by the police. While one could argue that, knowing about their daughter's emotional state, the Meier's maybe should have limited her internet access even more severely, it seems to me like the mom was doing everything she could to protect her daughter.
While I'm not sure if this crime actually merits 20 years, I'm not going to lie, I think that lady deserves it. I mean seriously, they made it clear in the article that she was aware of this girl's shaky mental state, and I honestly don't see how she could have believed that nothing bad would come out of harassing a depressed overweight 13 year old girl. It is ridiculous how immature that is - if she wanted to know what the girl was saying about her daughter she could have... uh i don't know asked the parents, or even the girl. Instead, she orchestrated an elaborate hoax to taunt the girl. So again, while I'm not sure if their crime is really worth 20 years from a legal perspective, from my own perspective I think it is an extremely fucked up thing to do, and that this lady deserves all the punishment she's getting.
Dumb person does something stupid and kills them self over a fake myspace account, even with the information about how and why this is still a cause of "ISSUE EXISTED ON CLIENT SIDE BETWEEN KEYBOARD AND CHAIR" as we like to sometimes describe issues at my job (I work in IT help desk, so yes..). The crime doesn't merit anything, maybe a medal for keeping that idiot from growing up and breeding more idiots.
Ok, umm I don't know why Lori Drew is getting 20 years for this. There are people who don't get 20 years in jail for directly killing people, but Lori Drew didn't even kill Megan...she did it herself.
Honestly, Lori Drew deserves maybe 1 year at most for all the trouble she caused, but this honestly doesn't justify 20 years. I'm sorry but in my opinion, some judges are just spitting out random numbers without seeing how long this amount of time really is. That's friggin longer than most of us on this website have even been living. It's a damn shame that someone can get 20 years for bullying someone who just so happened to kill themselves while other bullies who get people to kill themselves are just let free or get at most a couple of years.
Geez, you know something's wrong when people are getting 20 years for making up some persona on the internet, and then when OTHER people make a bunch of comments to some girl who just so happens to kill herself because of them, the person who made the account is getting in this shitload of trouble...
Honestly, Lori Drew deserves maybe 1 year at most for all the trouble she caused, but this honestly doesn't justify 20 years. I'm sorry but in my opinion, some judges are just spitting out random numbers without seeing how long this amount of time really is. That's friggin longer than most of us on this website have even been living. It's a damn shame that someone can get 20 years for bullying someone who just so happened to kill themselves while other bullies who get people to kill themselves are just let free or get at most a couple of years.
Geez, you know something's wrong when people are getting 20 years for making up some persona on the internet, and then when OTHER people make a bunch of comments to some girl who just so happens to kill herself because of them, the person who made the account is getting in this shitload of trouble...
Honestly, if you're moronic enough to kill yourself over something like that, then you should probably just go ahead and do it. I understand that this is harsh and I haven't read through all ten pages of this thread so someone probably said this already. Honestly, this whole thing is blown out of proportion.
well, i have two perspectives to this "case" so to speak.
on one side, i view the girl who killed herself as someone who was too desperate for attention. she loved the image of somepone on the internet, which is itself retarded since you cant judge someone youve never physically met or talked to. so, i kind of feel that if she gets so attached to someone she doesnt know, she deserves what happens after the trust is shattered.
on the other hand, i saw this as similar to the hazing case that happened a while back. i dont remember the whole story, but it was something like making the guy who was hetting hazed drink a couple gallons of water, causing him to die. im pretty sure that the college kids got in trouble with the law, something about taking a joke too far, just like the mother who not went along with the joke and helped orchestrate it.
i guess one side of me is thinking legally and one side of me is thinking like darwin.
on one side, i view the girl who killed herself as someone who was too desperate for attention. she loved the image of somepone on the internet, which is itself retarded since you cant judge someone youve never physically met or talked to. so, i kind of feel that if she gets so attached to someone she doesnt know, she deserves what happens after the trust is shattered.
on the other hand, i saw this as similar to the hazing case that happened a while back. i dont remember the whole story, but it was something like making the guy who was hetting hazed drink a couple gallons of water, causing him to die. im pretty sure that the college kids got in trouble with the law, something about taking a joke too far, just like the mother who not went along with the joke and helped orchestrate it.
i guess one side of me is thinking legally and one side of me is thinking like darwin.
Maybe, but if the mother didn't, in fact, condone "such obsession" with the internet, she would've done something about it, apparently grounding a teen for using the internet too much doesn't mean cutting their internet anymore, which is just stupid.
Permanent solution: kill modem.
Yeah, and what if this girl decided to kill herself from THAT? -.-
It wasn't an just "internet insult". It was an elaborate scheme by a mother who wanted to see if Megan was talking about her daughter, that went entirely too far. I'm sure those who are depressed think rationally! ._.
Of course I'm sure everyone would be perfectly fine if someone took advantage of your disadvantages (Depression, Diabetes, Disabilities, etc) and used them against you. The mother knew Megan was depressed yet she went ahead with it anyway.
I wonder that too.
Granted I think a potential of 20 years is harsh, though perhaps it will set an example to other "adults" not to do something similar.
Depression is not a load of bullshit, it's a serious condition and an actual illness, and it can be passed down by genetics. If you have depression and you've suddenly gotten your hopes up about some guy you hope exists, then it's possible that you might use him to make yourself happier, pull yourself out of you misery.
While it's her fault she had a MySpace, it's not her fault that some people on it are idiots. You can blame somebody for a suicide if they had intention to cause suicide. Thousands of people on the internet talk to people they've never met, and I'm doing it now. When you have depression, like my auntie, things get a lot worse. You're not just temporarily sad about something, you have thoughts of your own death, thinking you can't do anything, loss of happiness, and a lot of other things.
Even stupid people are living things, and everything that lives has a right to their life. If we thought stupid things didn't deserve to live, then we wouldn't mourn over our pets.
My more-than-two-cents as a result of this case along with people's reactions:
1. I'm not really sure where the idea that having no intent to get Megan Meier to commit suicide means there should be no punishment. A physical, cruel hearted prank, recklessness, or negligence resulting in death can bring about jail time. Just because the medium of which it takes place (and I'm speaking of the emotional level, rather than the Internet) isn't physical doesn't downgrade the act to something benign. Twenty years is a bit much, in my view, and I will address this point much later.
2. The act of intentionally committing suicide is seen as irrational under most circumstances. It is not directly relevant to intellect. You would ALL do very well to remember this as a point of respect, and as an attitude towards the act itself. Treating it as the former, rather than the latter, can help you have enough empathy to, for instance, say the right thing to prevent someone you actually care about from committing suicide. At the very least, keeping this in mind won't keep you idle if an intelligent person wants to self-destruct. I'm not making this statement as a judgment to anyone in this thread who has otherwise mocked this girl for committing suicide. However, I am a student of the mental health field. As such, I want to address a lot of knee-jerk reactions that were posted, because even if one has no emotional attachment to this girl (I have none), some remarks are showing just as much thought put behind them.
3. The Internet can be a toy. It can also be a place for very serious and emotionally charged interaction. These two concepts are not mutually exclusive. Just as there's Firebot and Policy Review co-existing on this site, the Internet exists similarly, but on a far larger scale. Dismissing emotional reactions to any sophisticated media is a very naive way of assessing human behavior, if not downright ignorant. If a certain media can make a person laugh, it is not a ridiculous concept that the same media can make a person cry. If it does not make YOU cry, fine. Expecting that same standard of reaction to apply to everyone? It's frankly self-centered.
4. Depression is not bullshit. In the same vein as suicide, it has nothing to do with intelligence. What's bullshit is the general ignorance toward mental health. To all of you who state, "Oh, I don't get why she's all depressed over a small thing. She's stupid!": I'll argue that you're the ones who aren't smart enough to grasp what can go on in a person's mind, even IF they are stupid, simply because you have no ability to think outside your own box.
5. Twenty years was too much. One year would be too little. About the only mitigating factor here is the fact that this wasn't a direct murder, which should ease the penalty a bit from an objective standpoint. On the other hand, emotional manipulation of a minor who is known to be at risk, while being an adult, is inexcusable. For anyone to dismiss Megan Meier's emotional vulnerability is more ridiculous than a little girl who takes the Internet too seriously.
An analogy, to explain:
If a person was injured and hurt after a physical assault, we would find it silly to blame the person for feeling pain. I'm not talking about a person clutching at his arm, claiming to feel pain because he got punched there after seeing a VW Beetle during a road trip. We might call this person a pussy. On the emotional level, if a thirteen year old cried after being called a doodoo head, I guess some mockery might be at hand.
But let's say a man was kicked in the balls. The man fell to his knees and groaned in pain for a few minutes. I think we can understand this one. For the emotional level... I have a more interesting parallel.
In Star Trek VI, Captain Kirk was in a penal colony and got into a fight with some alien bloke. He was getting his taint handed to him, so in desperation, he kicked the alien in the knee and... won the fight. He had no idea why he did, until some other alien explained, "Not everyone keeps their genitals in the same spot, Captain."
Psychological trauma, stress, depression, and all that works in that manner. Everyone's mental kick in the balls is not located in the same area.
So why must I make this statement? This entire thread, this MySpace case, the twenty year sentence, and a lot of what I suspect are high schooler remarks about this subject is a part of a bigger picture of law and society. Starting with law, it's hard to objectively dish out a sentence because of the various factors that come into play in emotional mental health. What's considered highly risky manipulation might be true for one person, but not for another. You all understand the myriad of factors that come into play for making a tier list for Pokemon. It's a million times harder to come up with a holistic assessment of psychological threat. (Though ya'll acknowledge a mind game in Pokemon... why is a mind game aimed at hurting someone directly, rather than scoring a Pokemon KO, so incredulous?)
To address society: Some sympathize, some mock, few truly empathize. All of you who belittle this girl, or think this case is shit, are the reason why the law is so ill prepared for this case. The irony is that all of those who side with Lori Drew and think she should go scott free, and that Megan Meier deserved to die for stupidity contribute to the blind eye we like to turn to emotional issues, which means nothing gets assessed because the public likes to stay ignorant, and Lori Drew gets a penalty you all think is ridiculous. Megan Meier's mom was only so prepared to help her daughter because society as a whole resists education about emotional health. Megan Meier herself might have learned better coping skills were we a nation that chose to foster such things in our communities.
Perhaps if we didn't treat this so lightly, we might have something better than the insanity plea in our legal system. Oi.
But as you all like to say, you have your opinions. But I also thought that on this forum, the educated ones count more. Have at it.
Edit - I won't say that Megan Meier was necessarily "right" for falsifying a MySpace account, and I think her mother really needed to govern this a little better. That said, neither of these things justify Lori Drew's acts in any way, nor do they make Megan Meier less of a victim, or deserve death more.
1. I'm not really sure where the idea that having no intent to get Megan Meier to commit suicide means there should be no punishment. A physical, cruel hearted prank, recklessness, or negligence resulting in death can bring about jail time. Just because the medium of which it takes place (and I'm speaking of the emotional level, rather than the Internet) isn't physical doesn't downgrade the act to something benign. Twenty years is a bit much, in my view, and I will address this point much later.
2. The act of intentionally committing suicide is seen as irrational under most circumstances. It is not directly relevant to intellect. You would ALL do very well to remember this as a point of respect, and as an attitude towards the act itself. Treating it as the former, rather than the latter, can help you have enough empathy to, for instance, say the right thing to prevent someone you actually care about from committing suicide. At the very least, keeping this in mind won't keep you idle if an intelligent person wants to self-destruct. I'm not making this statement as a judgment to anyone in this thread who has otherwise mocked this girl for committing suicide. However, I am a student of the mental health field. As such, I want to address a lot of knee-jerk reactions that were posted, because even if one has no emotional attachment to this girl (I have none), some remarks are showing just as much thought put behind them.
3. The Internet can be a toy. It can also be a place for very serious and emotionally charged interaction. These two concepts are not mutually exclusive. Just as there's Firebot and Policy Review co-existing on this site, the Internet exists similarly, but on a far larger scale. Dismissing emotional reactions to any sophisticated media is a very naive way of assessing human behavior, if not downright ignorant. If a certain media can make a person laugh, it is not a ridiculous concept that the same media can make a person cry. If it does not make YOU cry, fine. Expecting that same standard of reaction to apply to everyone? It's frankly self-centered.
4. Depression is not bullshit. In the same vein as suicide, it has nothing to do with intelligence. What's bullshit is the general ignorance toward mental health. To all of you who state, "Oh, I don't get why she's all depressed over a small thing. She's stupid!": I'll argue that you're the ones who aren't smart enough to grasp what can go on in a person's mind, even IF they are stupid, simply because you have no ability to think outside your own box.
5. Twenty years was too much. One year would be too little. About the only mitigating factor here is the fact that this wasn't a direct murder, which should ease the penalty a bit from an objective standpoint. On the other hand, emotional manipulation of a minor who is known to be at risk, while being an adult, is inexcusable. For anyone to dismiss Megan Meier's emotional vulnerability is more ridiculous than a little girl who takes the Internet too seriously.
An analogy, to explain:
If a person was injured and hurt after a physical assault, we would find it silly to blame the person for feeling pain. I'm not talking about a person clutching at his arm, claiming to feel pain because he got punched there after seeing a VW Beetle during a road trip. We might call this person a pussy. On the emotional level, if a thirteen year old cried after being called a doodoo head, I guess some mockery might be at hand.
But let's say a man was kicked in the balls. The man fell to his knees and groaned in pain for a few minutes. I think we can understand this one. For the emotional level... I have a more interesting parallel.
In Star Trek VI, Captain Kirk was in a penal colony and got into a fight with some alien bloke. He was getting his taint handed to him, so in desperation, he kicked the alien in the knee and... won the fight. He had no idea why he did, until some other alien explained, "Not everyone keeps their genitals in the same spot, Captain."
Psychological trauma, stress, depression, and all that works in that manner. Everyone's mental kick in the balls is not located in the same area.
So why must I make this statement? This entire thread, this MySpace case, the twenty year sentence, and a lot of what I suspect are high schooler remarks about this subject is a part of a bigger picture of law and society. Starting with law, it's hard to objectively dish out a sentence because of the various factors that come into play in emotional mental health. What's considered highly risky manipulation might be true for one person, but not for another. You all understand the myriad of factors that come into play for making a tier list for Pokemon. It's a million times harder to come up with a holistic assessment of psychological threat. (Though ya'll acknowledge a mind game in Pokemon... why is a mind game aimed at hurting someone directly, rather than scoring a Pokemon KO, so incredulous?)
To address society: Some sympathize, some mock, few truly empathize. All of you who belittle this girl, or think this case is shit, are the reason why the law is so ill prepared for this case. The irony is that all of those who side with Lori Drew and think she should go scott free, and that Megan Meier deserved to die for stupidity contribute to the blind eye we like to turn to emotional issues, which means nothing gets assessed because the public likes to stay ignorant, and Lori Drew gets a penalty you all think is ridiculous. Megan Meier's mom was only so prepared to help her daughter because society as a whole resists education about emotional health. Megan Meier herself might have learned better coping skills were we a nation that chose to foster such things in our communities.
Perhaps if we didn't treat this so lightly, we might have something better than the insanity plea in our legal system. Oi.
But as you all like to say, you have your opinions. But I also thought that on this forum, the educated ones count more. Have at it.
Edit - I won't say that Megan Meier was necessarily "right" for falsifying a MySpace account, and I think her mother really needed to govern this a little better. That said, neither of these things justify Lori Drew's acts in any way, nor do they make Megan Meier less of a victim, or deserve death more.
As ridiculous as this might seem, there's actually a point to it even though you might have been sarcastic about this comment and we can't cross this possibility off the table, if she committed suicide over being insulted by her "boyfriend", who knows what would have happened if she was forbidden from seeing "him." God knows it was the depression that fucked her up.
you people need to stop pretending that the internet is so trivial; it basically defines our entire generation. sites like facebook and myspace only fortify the notion that public declaration of one's existence is, without a doubt, the new masturbation.
in addition to being so important to all of us, it is also the most interactive medium available. the world is at your fingertips. saying things like IM TALKING TO STRANGERS RIGHT NOW AND I DONT TAKE IT SERIOUSLY is thoroughly retarded, as you are on a fucking pokemon message board, and your argument is moderately akin to watching a comedy and saying 'man i dont understand how people can be stupid enough to cry during movies'. the internet is what you want it to be.
in addition to being so important to all of us, it is also the most interactive medium available. the world is at your fingertips. saying things like IM TALKING TO STRANGERS RIGHT NOW AND I DONT TAKE IT SERIOUSLY is thoroughly retarded, as you are on a fucking pokemon message board, and your argument is moderately akin to watching a comedy and saying 'man i dont understand how people can be stupid enough to cry during movies'. the internet is what you want it to be.
Intelligent people can deal with depression. It's called emotional intelligence. No, it's not because I can't grasp what can go on, it's simply that what occurred was fucking stupid.
I know I'm setting myself up to get completely ragged on here but I'm very intelligent and I can't deal with my depression. It's an illness - one that requires medication and treatment as much as a broken leg.
Some of the most intelligent people I know have killed themselves; ignorance really is bliss.
Some of the most intelligent people I know have killed themselves; ignorance really is bliss.
13 year old kids really all ought to be smarter than Virginia Woolf or Ernest Hemmingway. If not, then that's their own problem..
One thing that sorta dissapoints me about this thread is that there is that people compare their actions with this woman and treat this as a defence of her actions rather than a condemnation of their own..
This woman undertook an action that had serious and foreseeable consequences that either she regrets heavily or she is a psychopath or something. To defend it is just ridiculous, the only real question is was it cruelty, or was it terrible stupidity.
As I understand it, the 20 year sentence is the maximum she could recieve for the charge she was convicted. I mean I havent looked at it at all, I would expect that the maximum sentence is probably for situations where someone's sole intention was to cause a suicide. 20 years is pretty much a murder sentence here. I think sentences are harsher in USA but still.. Also I expect that the sentencing would consider remorse, and from what I heard the woman hasnt shown any..
Have a nice day.
One thing that sorta dissapoints me about this thread is that there is that people compare their actions with this woman and treat this as a defence of her actions rather than a condemnation of their own..
This woman undertook an action that had serious and foreseeable consequences that either she regrets heavily or she is a psychopath or something. To defend it is just ridiculous, the only real question is was it cruelty, or was it terrible stupidity.
As I understand it, the 20 year sentence is the maximum she could recieve for the charge she was convicted. I mean I havent looked at it at all, I would expect that the maximum sentence is probably for situations where someone's sole intention was to cause a suicide. 20 years is pretty much a murder sentence here. I think sentences are harsher in USA but still.. Also I expect that the sentencing would consider remorse, and from what I heard the woman hasnt shown any..
Have a nice day.
