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CAP 4 CAP 4 - Part 10 (Support Moves Poll)
- Thread starter Sunday
- Start date
- Status
Not before the damage is done. Also, Trick Room is different because Trick Room teams are generally ripped apart by Tyranitar/Weavile.
This is a vote/discussion.
Should the following moves be allowed to appear on movepool suggestions for our Pokemon?
Wish - Yes/No
Slack Off - Yes/No
Block/Spider Web - Yes/No
Tailwind - Yes/No
Gravity - Yes/No
Heal Block - Yes/No
Yawn - Yes/No
Im against making this have any sort of healing but I think all the other setup moves are good on a utility pokemon.
Wish - Yes/No
Slack Off - Yes/No
Block/Spider Web - Yes/No
Tailwind - Yes/No
Gravity - Yes/No
Heal Block - Yes/No
Yawn - Yes/No
Im against making this have any sort of healing but I think all the other setup moves are good on a utility pokemon.
Wish - Yes/No
It supports the team as well as our utility Pokemon in terms of Hp.
Slack Off - Yes/No
Our Pokemon has Vital Spirit. Not only is laziness contradicting, but it should be able to heal with Wish instead.
Block/Spider Web - Yes/No
No, but I don't really care too much about this one.
Tailwind - Yes/No
A usable Tailwind? Yes.
Gravity - Yes/No
Duh!
Of course we need this thing to have gravity. That's one of the main reasons for Persistent.
Heal Block - Yes/No
I think it's made more viable with Persistent. So that's why I say yes.
Yawn - Yes/No
Yea...does it even have a mouth?
It supports the team as well as our utility Pokemon in terms of Hp.
Slack Off - Yes/No
Our Pokemon has Vital Spirit. Not only is laziness contradicting, but it should be able to heal with Wish instead.
Block/Spider Web - Yes/No
No, but I don't really care too much about this one.
Tailwind - Yes/No
A usable Tailwind? Yes.
Gravity - Yes/No
Duh!
Of course we need this thing to have gravity. That's one of the main reasons for Persistent.
Heal Block - Yes/No
I think it's made more viable with Persistent. So that's why I say yes.
Yawn - Yes/No
Yea...does it even have a mouth?
Holy shit.
50% of people are voting for no tailwind.
50% of people are wanting tailwind.
Look you dumbasses.
We gave this pokemon an ability to use Trickroom and Tailwind effectively.
If we don't, We won't ever see Tailwind or trick room team in Great use again.
It's one of the reasons to use Persistent.
Now Let's get that tailwind.
Tailwind - Yes/No
50% of people are voting for no tailwind.
50% of people are wanting tailwind.
Look you dumbasses.
We gave this pokemon an ability to use Trickroom and Tailwind effectively.
If we don't, We won't ever see Tailwind or trick room team in Great use again.
It's one of the reasons to use Persistent.
Now Let's get that tailwind.
Tailwind - Yes/No
People, we are not voting on what it will have, we are voting on what it 100% will not have. This means all you "undecided" people might as well vote yes.
Okay what? I thought this poll was on what it will get, not the other way around. So what does our Yes and No answer mean in regards to that?
Once the suggested competitive movepool is complete, Sunday will ask people to make actual movepools out of them (or make a thread for it and let anyone make theirs and choose ones he likes, up to him I suppose).
The movepools used in the final movepool poll cannot have any competitive moves not in the potential list, which is what we're making now.
The movepools used in the final movepool poll cannot have any competitive moves not in the potential list, which is what we're making now.
Nice. So already I get the impression that you think I'm dumber than you because I don't conform to your beliefs. Way to troll man.
The reason we gave it Persistant was to boost the length of Gravity, Trick Room, Heal Block, Safeguard, and Tailwind. What everybody thought was that because it included Tailwind, it was automatically included in the movepool. That isn't the case, the ability can be changed, and WILL be changed if Tailwind loses. So while it may be a reason to use Persistant, it sure as hell isn't the only one. As for not seeing Trick Room or Tailwind in teams because we don't give it them, what proof do you have. Trick Room teams are quite effective already. There was also a Tailwind Suicune set posted in C&C so please, do your homework before you come to these threads and shoot your mouth off. Also, post a full vote.
I don't have any strong opinions about any of the moves because I wasn't able to participate in the movepool discussion.
I voted no because I had already voted yes for Heal Block.
That combination could completely hinder Blissey and other "walls" capabilities against this Pokemon.
Thats not a valid example, Blissey already got the crap beaten out of her by DLL. In all seriousness, it wouldn't hinder their capabilities against them, because Encore+Block does the same thing if it's locked into a non-healing move.
Did we already decide on Encore?
I haven't been able to discuss the movepool.
So my insight is very narrow.
I haven't been able to discuss the movepool.
So my insight is very narrow.
Wish - Yes/No
Slack Off - Yes/No
Block/Spider Web - Yes/No
Tailwind - Yes/No
Gravity - Yes/No
Heal Block - Yes/No
Yawn - Yes/No
I don't really want status apart from poison on this poke, slack off helps too much, and doesn't support others.
spider web is too strong combined with heal block and toxic, and could cause problems.
Slack Off - Yes/No
Block/Spider Web - Yes/No
Tailwind - Yes/No
Gravity - Yes/No
Heal Block - Yes/No
Yawn - Yes/No
I don't really want status apart from poison on this poke, slack off helps too much, and doesn't support others.
spider web is too strong combined with heal block and toxic, and could cause problems.
Should the following moves be allowed to appear on movepool suggestions for our Pokémon?
Wish - Yes/No
Slack Off - Yes/No
Block/Spider Web - Yes/No
Tailwind - Yes/No
Gravity - Yes/No
Heal Block - Yes/No
Yawn - Yes/No
Wish and Slack Off-This being a utility Pokémon that means to be able to support your party in a lot of ways, and healing is one of them, I don't think a 50% heal would a be very good idea, because it may end up being too powerful... I just think a delayed heal will be better off.
Block and Spider Web- I just think that even though these can be pulled off concept wise, with Encore it'll just cause too many problems and end up being removed anyway.
Tailwind, Gravity and Heal Block-A lot of people are against these, where were they when we were designing the ability? If they didn't want these abilities to be involved with the Pokémon they should have been more decisive about the ability, I know I saw a few people, but that was it. Personally, I think this will open up a lot of possibilties for very interesting movesets and teams, so I wanna see it happen.
Yawn-I don't think this Pokémon should get any sleep inducing moves in general, if this is the only one it gets, I'm fine with that, because without Block and Spider Web, we really don't have to worry about the sleep being guaranteed, which means this'll just be a forced switch, which I think will be a good addition to this Pokémon.
Wish - Yes/No
Slack Off - Yes/No
Block/Spider Web - Yes/No
Tailwind - Yes/No
Gravity - Yes/No
Heal Block - Yes/No
Yawn - Yes/No
Wish and Slack Off-This being a utility Pokémon that means to be able to support your party in a lot of ways, and healing is one of them, I don't think a 50% heal would a be very good idea, because it may end up being too powerful... I just think a delayed heal will be better off.
Block and Spider Web- I just think that even though these can be pulled off concept wise, with Encore it'll just cause too many problems and end up being removed anyway.
Tailwind, Gravity and Heal Block-A lot of people are against these, where were they when we were designing the ability? If they didn't want these abilities to be involved with the Pokémon they should have been more decisive about the ability, I know I saw a few people, but that was it. Personally, I think this will open up a lot of possibilties for very interesting movesets and teams, so I wanna see it happen.
Yawn-I don't think this Pokémon should get any sleep inducing moves in general, if this is the only one it gets, I'm fine with that, because without Block and Spider Web, we really don't have to worry about the sleep being guaranteed, which means this'll just be a forced switch, which I think will be a good addition to this Pokémon.
Wish - Yes/No - Wish kinda fits, and works to make it more of a utility, by healing your team members
Slack Off - Yes/No - Might make it slightly broken, and why Slack Off with Vital Spirit?
Block/Spider Web - Yes/No - Either one fits, it's a Spider, so Spider Web fits, and it can Block with all of it's hands.
Tailwind - Yes/No - Persistent boosts it, and I'd want to make a team utilizing it, but it doesn't have enough turns, I'd use it despite only one pokemon having Persistent to boost it.
Gravity - Yes/No - Reach in the sky, and pull them down with all 8 of your hands, that simple. Then just EQ or go to Garchomp, Rhyperior or whatever.
Heal Block - Yes/No - Stopping the opponent from healing is useful, and it works as a utility too.
Yawn - Yes/No - I'll just go with Yes, since it adds more of a utility feel to it, and provides support by putting opponents to sleep.
Will it have any chance of getting Trick Room, Taunt, Encore, Light Screen, Reflect, Safeguard, Spikes, Stealth Rock or Toxic Spikes?
Slack Off - Yes/No - Might make it slightly broken, and why Slack Off with Vital Spirit?
Block/Spider Web - Yes/No - Either one fits, it's a Spider, so Spider Web fits, and it can Block with all of it's hands.
Tailwind - Yes/No - Persistent boosts it, and I'd want to make a team utilizing it, but it doesn't have enough turns, I'd use it despite only one pokemon having Persistent to boost it.
Gravity - Yes/No - Reach in the sky, and pull them down with all 8 of your hands, that simple. Then just EQ or go to Garchomp, Rhyperior or whatever.
Heal Block - Yes/No - Stopping the opponent from healing is useful, and it works as a utility too.
Yawn - Yes/No - I'll just go with Yes, since it adds more of a utility feel to it, and provides support by putting opponents to sleep.
Will it have any chance of getting Trick Room, Taunt, Encore, Light Screen, Reflect, Safeguard, Spikes, Stealth Rock or Toxic Spikes?
Wish - Yes/No
Slack Off - Yes/No
Block/Spider Web - Yes/No
Tailwind - Yes/No
Gravity - Yes/No
Heal Block - Yes/No
Yawn - Yes/No
Wish is such an awesome team support move, and there aren't enough OU pokemon that can do it. I don't think instant recovery is the right way to go with this pokemon. If we did give it instant recovery, I'd rather see Recover instead of Slack Off.
Trapping moves are almost never used. Perhaps this pokemon can pull it off. Spider Web fits great.
Tailwind, Gravity, and Heal Block for sure. Just see my earlier rant on Tailwind in this thread if you are interested in my general reasoning.
I don't think a sleep move should be in this pokemon's arsenal. Personally I hate sleep in the metagame, because there aren't enough good ways to defend against it.
Slack Off - Yes/No
Block/Spider Web - Yes/No
Tailwind - Yes/No
Gravity - Yes/No
Heal Block - Yes/No
Yawn - Yes/No
Wish is such an awesome team support move, and there aren't enough OU pokemon that can do it. I don't think instant recovery is the right way to go with this pokemon. If we did give it instant recovery, I'd rather see Recover instead of Slack Off.
Trapping moves are almost never used. Perhaps this pokemon can pull it off. Spider Web fits great.
Tailwind, Gravity, and Heal Block for sure. Just see my earlier rant on Tailwind in this thread if you are interested in my general reasoning.
I don't think a sleep move should be in this pokemon's arsenal. Personally I hate sleep in the metagame, because there aren't enough good ways to defend against it.
Yes to all of those.
Wish - Yes/No
Slack Off - Yes/No
Block/Spider Web - Yes/No
Tailwind - Yes/No
Gravity - Yes/No
Heal Block - Yes/No
Yawn - Yes/No
I'm not sure how many people will actually use Tailwind on this thing... Furthermore this thing DOESN'T EVEN HAVE WINGS. I also don't want Yawn on this thing to help set up Gravity/Trick Room; it's stats are fine enough to set up these things even without Yawn. I think it might go a little overboard if we DO give it Yawn. Wishing and Block are great, though.
Slack Off - Yes/No
Block/Spider Web - Yes/No
Tailwind - Yes/No
Gravity - Yes/No
Heal Block - Yes/No
Yawn - Yes/No
I'm not sure how many people will actually use Tailwind on this thing... Furthermore this thing DOESN'T EVEN HAVE WINGS. I also don't want Yawn on this thing to help set up Gravity/Trick Room; it's stats are fine enough to set up these things even without Yawn. I think it might go a little overboard if we DO give it Yawn. Wishing and Block are great, though.
NOTE TO VOTE COUNTERS: I changed my vote for Wish from No to Yes. The post was the third on page two, I edited it. Thanks. (:
EDIT: To those who oppose Encore + Block/Spider Web, don't the effects of trapping moves wear off as soon as the Pokémon switches? Correct me if I'm wrong, but if this is true, the opponent should be able to switch as soon as you've switched DLL out for a counter to the formerly trapped Pokémon.
This is of course assuming it will NOT receive Baton Pass.
EDIT: To those who oppose Encore + Block/Spider Web, don't the effects of trapping moves wear off as soon as the Pokémon switches? Correct me if I'm wrong, but if this is true, the opponent should be able to switch as soon as you've switched DLL out for a counter to the formerly trapped Pokémon.
This is of course assuming it will NOT receive Baton Pass.
Wish - Yes/No
Slack Off - Yes/No
Block/Spider Web - Yes/No
Tailwind - Yes/No
Gravity - Yes/No
Heal Block - Yes/No
Yawn - Yes/No
Wish support is an amazing thing, but I don't see it being broken enough to warrant it's non-usage. However, immediate recovery does seem pretty annoying. I could see it blocking another pokemon. Heck, I could even see spider web as a possibility. I am fine with either. Tailwind seems really far-fetched to me. While it is good to expand the metagame, it gets ridiculous when a freaking spider/daddy long legs thing can summon the winds. Spinning like a top makes like a tornado, not a tailwind. As soon as it became part ground, tailwind became hard-pressed to find a good piece of art to call home. The CAP community spoke on which design they wanted, and now it is time to respect their decision. Tailwind can be the focus of a later CAP project, but now doesn't make any sense. Gravity supports the use of unused support options that actually make SOME sense. Heal Block takes up a move slot and serves little purpose. Finally, we don't need more pokemon with sleep moves. Plus, with block, it would get REALLY annoying. 1st you could yawn something. Then you block them or the switch. Then you are in great position to further set up or switch to a counter with way too much ease.
Slack Off - Yes/No
Block/Spider Web - Yes/No
Tailwind - Yes/No
Gravity - Yes/No
Heal Block - Yes/No
Yawn - Yes/No
Wish support is an amazing thing, but I don't see it being broken enough to warrant it's non-usage. However, immediate recovery does seem pretty annoying. I could see it blocking another pokemon. Heck, I could even see spider web as a possibility. I am fine with either. Tailwind seems really far-fetched to me. While it is good to expand the metagame, it gets ridiculous when a freaking spider/daddy long legs thing can summon the winds. Spinning like a top makes like a tornado, not a tailwind. As soon as it became part ground, tailwind became hard-pressed to find a good piece of art to call home. The CAP community spoke on which design they wanted, and now it is time to respect their decision. Tailwind can be the focus of a later CAP project, but now doesn't make any sense. Gravity supports the use of unused support options that actually make SOME sense. Heal Block takes up a move slot and serves little purpose. Finally, we don't need more pokemon with sleep moves. Plus, with block, it would get REALLY annoying. 1st you could yawn something. Then you block them or the switch. Then you are in great position to further set up or switch to a counter with way too much ease.
I'm not sure if it's a good time to say this but what happened to U-turn, Knock, and Rapid Spin? Is Sunday considered attack moves or just got rid of them for reason that probably been talked about.
Also, how many people would believe this guy fitting within the Fairy/Bug egg group?
Also, how many people would believe this guy fitting within the Fairy/Bug egg group?
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