• Smogon Premier League is here and the team collection is now available. Support your team!

Election 2008, United States

Who would you vote for if the presidential race is held now?

  • Barack Obama

    Votes: 415 72.4%

  • John McCain

    Votes: 130 22.7%

  • Other (Please specify)

    Votes: 28 4.9%
  • Total voters
    573
Obama definitely. McCain is a complete moron with no clue what he is doing. If McCain get's voted in and this thing continues, karma is going hit and America will crash and burn?

But why should I complain? Under the tax cuts Bush gives and McCain will continue, my family makes keep more money (and we still pay $90,000 in taxes!). The place where I live (in CT) is almost completely unaffected negatively (no foreclosures, etc), and we are actually experiencing more $$$. But this town is very Blue, because we understand the idiocy of the ideas of Republicans.

As for Obama's definition of wealth, it's 150 grand. So if you are above that, you might need to think twice. Otherwise it's a no brainer.

The main reason it's not a no-brainer yet is because we don't know who McCain is. People always say "Oh, we don't know who Obama is" but the truth is that we don't know about McCain. Right now, the common generalization is that McCain is 1. A former POW to be honored (and he should for that), and 2. A maverick who reaches across party lines and goes against his own party. Only one of those is true.
 
TheBM said:
Sorry, that sounded like I was accusing McCain of being sexist. I am just pre-empting the PUMAs and the media coverage that Obama is being sexist again. I apologise for that.
Click to expand...

It's understand, I misread you a bit. Politics gets too heated.


As a side note, I think it's funny how their tickets are flopped. That makes no sense so let me explain. Obama has little experience, Mccain has a lot of experience. Biden has a lot of experience, Palin has little experience.
 
what? just because he called his wife a cunt?

but i call you a cunt all the time!
 
John McCain is against birth control.
John McCain supports a constitutional amendment to ban abortion.
John McCain tells rape "jokes".
John McCain called his wife a cunt
John McCain opposes women getting equal pay.
John McCain wants his wife to enter a topless (and sometimes bottomless) beauty pageant.
John McCain uses racist language.
John McCain divorced his first wife because she became disabled.
John McCain has consistently voted against health care coverage for needly families.
John McCain can't answer a simple question about women's health coverage.
John McCain has never cosponsored or supported legislation to prevent unintended pregnancy or reduce the need for abortion.
John McCain no longer supports the campaign finance reform that made him famous.

http://www.canow.org/canoworg/2008/08/misogyny-yee-ha.html
 
I respect your opinion but I couldn't let this post go by as though these were accurate, non-bias sources. I don't care even about political affiliations, you basically just dragged his name through the mud without any supporting evidence.

akuchi said:
John McCain is against birth control.

He opposes insurance covering birth control, which is the correct position. Insurance is designed to cover medical problems, getting knocked up is not a medical problem. Of course insurance shouldn't cover it. Of course you'll respond with the garbage of "why does insurance cover viagra then?" because Viagra is treating a medical problem. Birth control doesn't treat a medical problem, so why the hell should it be covered? Since when is contraception treating a medical disorder? It isn't.

John McCain supports a constitutional amendment to ban abortion.

I personally don't give a shit about abortion, but I fail to see what's wrong with someone believing that abortion is wrong. You present this as though McCain opposes abortion because, shit he hates women.


John McCain tells rape "jokes".

Did you seriously just link me to fucking Keith Olbermann and the Huffington Post? I'm not even going to comment since those are such joke news outlets I wouldn't dare assume anything they are saying is factually based, find a real source and then I'll determine whether or not it's valid.

John McCain called his wife a cunt

Again, the Huffington Post and what the hell was that other unprofessional joke link? I also wasn't aware that someone calling their wife a cunt could mean they are a horrible person. It's not appropriate to do, of course not, but this alleged event occurred over a decade ago no one has any idea of the circumstances, events, or whether this was out of character for him. I'm sure you've never lost your temper. His wife is pretty and rich, I must ask if this was the McCain standard why would she put up with that bullshit?

John McCain opposes women getting equal pay.

Did you even read McCain's response in the article you linked too? Furthermore, have you even read the bill that McCain was referring too?

John McCain wants his wife to enter a topless (and sometimes bottomless) beauty pageant.

lol. That's your most absurd article yet. You do know he made that comment off the cuff and had no idea it was a topless beauty pageant correct? I had to be in South Dakota at the time this even occurred (unfortunately, South Dakota is a boring ass state) and I went out of boredom. It was so obvious he didn't even know what it was if you were there, which that writer clearly never did. His wife was a pageant queen if I recall correctly and why would his first assumption be that obviously this biker affair pageant is topless. You have to be kidding me.

John McCain uses racist language.

He was in a fucking vietnamese prison camp? Do you understand that. You are seriously telling a man who went what he went through to not have a bit of anger towards his captors? You have to be fucking kidding me. McCain has explained this issue so many times it's getting old for people to bring it up.

John McCain divorced his first wife because she became disabled.

That article had no evidence of this at all. Journalism has become a laughable profession is this is the new standard. How can you take an article with no evidence other than talking to "friends"? Why not go to the first source? Who are these friends? That article was sloppy and I would never pick up the Daily Mail for my information again with that sloppy reporting.

John McCain has consistently voted against health care coverage for needly families.

The link is broken so I can't respond anyway.

John McCain can't answer a simple question about women's health coverage.

Jesus, do you believe in non-bias sources? Don't link me to something that is brought out by an organization who ardently supports this, that's an insult to everyone intelligence. I'll admit, that was a dumb answer. But so what? I would prefer a politician say "I don't know" rather than make up bull shit. I've already addressed how insurance companies should cover Viagra but not Birth Control. Viagra treats a medical problem, birth control doesn't, end of story.

John McCain
has never cosponsored or supported legislation to prevent unintended pregnancy or reduce the need for abortion.

Being against abortion = anti women right? If you believe that, I pity you. Also, don't link to fucking NARAL to make your point.

John McCain no longer supports the campaign finance reform that made him famous.

I wouldn't bother reading that site after I saw how unprofessional it looked.

http://www.canow.org/canoworg/2008/08/misogyny-yee-ha.html

Edit: Didn't realize that you didn't find these links yourself, must have missed this one. Remind me to have no respect for this organization.
Click to expand...
 
As a woman, I think I'm a bit more qualified to say what's anti-woman than a man.

I just pulled up the first google - sorry, love, I'll spend more time putting a cohesive post together when I'm not pissed out of my face.

You're right though, why anyone would choose to pick up the Daily Heil is beyond me, it's terrible.
 
akuchi said:
As a woman, I think I'm a bit more qualified to say what's anti-woman than a man.

I hate how woman can always pull this card out, even if it's true.

I just pulled up the first google - sorry, love, I'll spend more time putting a cohesive post together when I'm not pissed out of my face.

You're right though, why anyone would choose to pick up the Daily Heil is beyond me, it's terrible.
Click to expand...

Yeah, my post sounded like I was pissed at you. When I first posted I missed that last link at the bottom and I thought those were your sources but I was too lazy to edit everything. I was just pissed at that google link then. Sorry about that. You are still awesome now :) since every political discussion needs a cool feminist.

As a somewhat related side note, I wish Republicans would give up on the abortion thing. Isn't it only rednecks creationists that are still really opposed to abortion? Then again, I think Palin and McCain both support Creationism (or "intelligent design" whatever garbage it's being called now) in public schools so I guess it fits. Frightening I'd say. Oh, I thought you'd find this amusing by the way Akuchi. Palin is a member of "Feminists for Life" (http://www.feministsforlife.org/ ), just curious what you thought about that. Looks like a joke organization to me but whatever.
 
The best thing about Palin is:

- not that she's female
- not that she's a governor

The best thing about her strategically is that it energizes the GOP base in a way that Biden really never did. Palin is a 100% conservative, 100% pro-gun, 100% pro-drilling, 100% pro-markets 100% anti-abortion (to the point that she willingly had a Down's syndrome child), and at the same time a Washington outsider, has a record of being anti-corruption, anti-earmarks, opposing guys like Stevens in Alaska.

McCain has been winning by appealing to his base, and picking someone like Lieberman or Ridge, or even Romney would not help that, and in the case of the former two, hurt it.

Also, the Obama campaign *really* can't go too hard after Palin's experience, precisely because their experience is so similar, except that Palin is at the bottom of the ticket, while Obama is at the top. (though one wonders how things would be if it was a Palin/McCain ticket rather than vice versa). If they attack Palin on inexperience, they highlight Obama's. Such an attack, while it would undercut McCain's argument against experience, they really do NOT want to make this the argument, just because Palin is the VP, not the presidental candidate.
 
Ancien Régime said:
The best thing about Palin is:

- not that she's female
- not that she's a governor

The best thing about her strategically is that it energizes the GOP base in a way that Biden really never did. Palin is a 100% conservative, 100% pro-gun, 100% pro-drilling, 100% pro-markets 100% anti-abortion (to the point that she willingly had a Down's syndrome child), and at the same time a Washington outsider, has a record of being anti-corruption, anti-earmarks, opposing guys like Stevens in Alaska.
Click to expand...

I'm not particularly impressed with Palin as the choice (then again I don't consider myself an all out conservative) but I must give her credit for consistency. She certain never wavers from her "conservative principles".
 
I don't know, feminists for life is halfway semi-decent since no woman should have to abort a child she wants due to economic need.. but seeing as the only way I can see that happening 100% of the time is in a socialist state, and that's hardly the republican dream.

On the other hand, if a woman wants to abort for whatever reason she should be allowed that choice, and the 'feminists for life' are denying them that, which is a bit shit, since there's a myriad of reasons for wanting to abort.
 
Sarah Palin VP pick is easily the most genius political gamesmanship I've seen in a while.

Obama is a thin-skinned reactionary clod. He will take the bait and attack her on experience (in fact, he already has), and all of his criticisms will backfire in his face.

Obama has built a campaign on hope and change, and the minute he mentions objective qualifications for the office, it becomes abundantly clear he himself is lacking. I mean really, Sarah Palin has a thicker resume than Barack. Barack "organized communities," by which I mean gave kickbacks to his unrepentant terrorist and Daley machine hack friends while his beloved communites were left in poverty and squalor. Sarah Palin fought her own party insiders, and became mayor of a town where everybody knows your name and what you do, then became governor. Barack went to Germany once, Palin has regular dealings with Canadian officials. (Canada is our largest trading partner.)

I mean hell, if it were Obama vs. Palin for top of the ticket, Palin would still be more qualified than Barry.

As for you akuchi, pulling stuff about McCain from NARAL?

Please, the Democratic Party is in the pockets of Big Abortion. Obama himself supports infanticide. In fact, Big Abortion basically owns the feminists too.

There is nothing feminine, nor even basically human, about killing a child in the womb. NARAL makes money off killing children in wombs and the advocacy thereof. Barack Obama has never wavered in his support for increasing the number of children who are killed in wombs. Barack Obama has never moved from NARALs anti-life line. Barack Obama is on the record as having blocked a bill that would stop doctors from leaving babies who survived late term abortions to die without medical treatment.

Barack Obama supports infanticide. Just like Margaret Sanger, just like Adolf, Stalin, and Mao. Feminism in its current form isn't pro-women, it is pro-abortion, and abortion is anti-women.

As I said in an earlier post, Socialism is a religion. It has to be, because in order to believe in it, you have to have faith not just without proof of success, but with overwhelming evidence to the contrary.

Sarah Palin is a real woman, not a mindless shill for abortion and collectivism.
Sarah Palin is the kind of woman who scares the **** out of feminists.
Sarah Palin is the next Vice President of the United States, and in 2016, will be the first female President of the United States.
 
Ancien, you misunderstand me. Obama should not attack Palin's experience. He should attack McCain's attacks on experience by saying "You just chose someone who is similarly experienced and chose them as your successor in case you die, essentially saying 'This person is ready to be president.'" That's what needs to happen and then you will find the issue of experience fading away.

Here's something that has come up on another board I engage in political debate in: The Down's Syndrome baby. What the hell? Ancien Regime, you make it sound like it's so high minded to NOT abort Trig (?) even those s/he has Down's Syndrome. Can you please point out to me where Obama says that abortions should be done for kids with Down's Syndrome? You won't find it. Using Trig (?) in this manner is despicable.

You are correct, however, that Palin's only real contribution to the McCain campaign is that she energises the base. But it comes at the cost of alienating moderates and independents. Palin is hugely pro-oil and drilling everywhere and has shown no real enthusiasm for investing in new sources of energy that are not oil and natural gas, like McCain. Energy is what she's being sold on and her only ideas on this are to repeat "Drill here; drill now!" and she means it. People in Alaska would drill in their back yards if they could. She is a great choice if Republicans think they can survive once more on just their base, but otherwise, she's disastrous.

Edit: I know I am going to regret this but I am going to respond to Deck Knight, but not on abortion. He lost all hope for any kind of actual response thanks to comparing Obama to Stalin, Hitler, and Mao.

On experience: Congratulations. She became mayor of a town of 9,000 people. Can you even imagine that? Her town wouldn't fill up the auditorium that McCain used to announce her (which I don't think was full anyway)! I don't know where you get the idea that governing the ridiculously small community beats out State Senator. Palin took on her party insiders. I appluad her for that. The Republican party in Alaska is so ridiculously corrupt that I cannot even begin to describe all the shady dealings. She should definitely be applauded for her work and getting the governorship. Alaska seems pretty happy about it, but then you just have to not spend state money on private jets and other things to make Alaskans happy. What is she known for? Suing Congress for passing legislation to protect polar bears because it would hurt oil exploration. From a party that has taken so much heat for being in the pocket of big oil this is ridiculous.

Palin has no foreign policy experience at all ("but McCain has experience!"). I don't care. The ticket is not balanced at all. Steve Doocy put it best when he said "Alaska is right next to Russia! That's foreign policy experience!"

With regards to the Obama reaction, Obama has quieted down his surrogates who had a knee-jerk reaction. He's smart. He's not going to react like you think he is. I am confident that if I can see the proper way to attack Palin on experience he will.

Conclusion: Palin excites the evangelical Christian base that Deck Knight embodies. She scares everyone else.
 
akuchi said:
since there's a myriad of reasons for wanting to abort.
Click to expand...

You know what really blows? I just found out yesterday that I've been using the word "myriad" wrong for 25 years. There's never an "a" preceding it, nor an "of" following it. It's a standalone word, whereas your sentence would properly read:

"...since there's myriad reasons for wanting to abort."

This has been your daily "dude, seriously?" moment. Thanks for your time.

And don't you fucking DARE turn this into an abortion discussion.
 
I would never. I know it's a futile, dogmatic debate. and yeah please, deck knight, shut the fuck up about it. mention it in passing by all means but there's no use trying to draw me into another futile argument.

also ..dude, seriously?

and oh my god Deck Knight I don't want to argue with you on abortion but
one of the first things Hitler did was ban abortion and contraceptives
 
TheBM said:
What is she known for?
Click to expand...

What is Obama known for? This isn't meant to be sarcastic, it's actually a serious question. What the hell has he done (besides of course being an amazing community organizer and taking the easy position of state senator)? That stupid Democratic Republic of the Congo Act? Hard hitting stuff. His ethics reform bill was a marginal accomplishment at best and only slightly modified the Lobbying Disclosure Act, hardily the sweeping ethics reform that Obama supporters proclaim. Obama was wrong on his failed Iraq War De-Escalation Act, every objective observer can see that. Really, I can't see a single thing this man has accomplished. I just want to know, what has this man done other than spout idealistic chants of "yes we can" with his glazed face zombies (please, watch his campaign rallies ... I'm not saying all Obama supporters are that way, not at all, but the ones that go to his campaign rallies and cry and faint are fucking hilarious).
 
Well, just to respond to akuchi, Hitler was against *individual* abortion rights, very true. But he was all for it when it came to "undesirables" (of course, since they didn't have pre-natal screening that really applied to outside the womb but its the same idea). The modern conservative rationale for banning abortion (morality/thinking it's an act of murder) is completely different from the Hitlerian rationale (population control/optimization by the State).

Hitler basically wanted German women to do nothing but produce soldiers for the State, which I'd like to think that most pro-lifers are not into...

Anyway

At this point, McCain for me is a defensive measure. Since Paul isn't getting in, or even Bob Barr, I have no choice but to go with McCain, who at least has said he will control the size of the federal government, unlike Obama who promises more spending with more tax cuts to boot, except that they'll be progressive, unlike Bush's non-progressive tax cuts (protip: the rich got more in tax cuts because they pay more, the top 1% of earners pay about 40% of the taxes, and the top 50% of earners pay 97.1% of taxes - we actually have VERY progressive taxation lol)

We really need to fix the debt, (4 trillion and counting, and that's before the bill for the entitlements come in), make hard choices on federal programs (not add more), and while I don't like that McCain seems fixated on drilling, I don't like that Obama is fixated on NOT drilling (we should be investing in post-fossil fuel alternatives either way) so I'm assuming that McCain is focusing on drilling because its what we can do right now to get more fuel, not at the expense of doing other stuff. Also, taxing the rich is silly anyway, because taxing corporations just means they'll pass the cost on to consumers.

(of course i'd like to give that full laissez-faire thing a try too, seeing that we've never really done it - 19th century america came pretty close but they had all those annoying tarriffs, government sponsored monopolies, etc)

and no deck you're wrong, because in 2016 Michael Steele will be the first black president of the United States :D (plays superman music)
 
At this point, McCain for me is a defensive measure. Since Paul isn't getting in, or even Bob Barr, I have no choice but to go with McCain
Click to expand...
Once again, the odds of your vote being decisive are so miniscule that this sort of reasoning just holds no weight. The whole point of an election is you vote for what you want. If you vote for something you dont want, then people will think that is what you do want and you will keep being offered it.

Strategic voting is nonsense. Vote for your favourite candidate please.

Have a nice day.
 
Hipmonlee said:
Once again, the odds of your vote being decisive are so miniscule that this sort of reasoning just holds no weight. The whole point of an election is you vote for what you want. If you vote for something you dont want, then people will think that is what you do want and you will keep being offered it.

Strategic voting is nonsense. Vote for your favourite candidate please.

Have a nice day.
Click to expand...

Yeh, its not like you are part of the electoral college or anything.
 
aahhahahahahhahahaahahahahahha I fucking love this election so much, what a ridiculous identity politics ploy

Hillary can make up for all of her bullshit by absolutely eviscerating Palin it's gonna be great

P.S. Hip I don't think you appreciate just how different the American electoral system is from NZ/Aus. they don't have anything remotely resembling Instant Runoff there
 
It doesnt matter.

My vote is basically as irrellevant as anyone elses. The chances of one vote being the difference between a seat in parliament for two candidates is negligible even here, in a country with less population than some American cities and with at least 120 seats available.

I appreciate perfectly well how the American system works, and it is stupid to think that voting for a major party somehow makes your vote mean more. If anything it makes it mean much, much less.

Have a nice day.
 
Well, I'm thinking in terms of "which of the two I want to win", when I actually get in the booth I'll likely write in Paul, especially since I live in a rock-solid Blue state.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top