Platinum Walling Combinations

bugmaniacbob said:
Is this any good for a wall?

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Moltres @ Leftovers
Nature: Calm
Ability: Pressure

HEAT WAVE
HIDDEN POWER GROUND
ROOST
FIRE SPIN

EVs: 252 HP, 200 SDef, 48 SAtk, 8 Def

I think I mentioned, in previous posts, how Ho-oh seemed to be able to crush the 'Holy Trinity' of Heatran/Scizor/Shaymin. This is essentially a watered-down version of that. STAB Heat Wave crushes Scizor and Shaymin, HP Ground does away with Heatran and Roost heals off the damage.
  • Scizor: Moltres resists Bullet Punch, X-Scissor and Superpower and takes little damage from Quick Attack and Pursuit. STAB Heat Wave takes care of it with no trouble at all.
  • Shaymin: Unlike Zapdos, Moltres does not resist Air Slash, however it has a 4x resistance to Seed Flare and has STAB on Heat Wave. It is unlikely that Shaymin will come out on top.
  • Heatran: ScarfTran can come in on Heat Wave, but unlike Zapdos, Moltres takes neutral damage from hidden power ice and can KO with HP ground.
As well as these, it can also take on Lucario and sometimes non-bulky Tyranitar and Metagross. Fire Spin is mostly a filler, but it can trap foes that may soon decide to flee. Maybe a Solarbeam + Power Herb combination would be more useful, to take out bulky waters that decide to switch in, or Toxic, or Safeguard, or Roar, or something.
Click to expand...
Can it survive a +2 Quick Attack after switching into SR?
 
CardsOfTheHeart said:
+2 Adamant 252 LO Technician Scizor's Quick Attack vs. 252 HP 8 Def Moltres:

203-239 damage
53-62%

Probably not. >_<
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Having done some more calcs (max/max Bold is a 2HKO)...I can conclude a Choice Scarf Moltres would be better. In which case, why not cut out Moltres and use a better revenge killer.
 
Compare:

Flamethrower - 95 BP; 100 Acc
Heat Wave - 100 BP; 90 Acc

On average, Flamethrower is 95 BP, whereas Heat Wave would only be 90.
 
On the subject of my Moltres wall post:

  • Heat Wave < Flamethrower: I forgot, for a moment, what flamethrower's base power was. I thought it was 90. I apologise, and will correct the mistake ASAP.
  • Quick Attack: I did not know that QA was a common Scizor move. I thought that most sweepers carried only one priority move, even with technician taken into account, and that Scizor himself, with only two slots left, would use Superpower and X-Scissor for Steel-Types and STAB, respectively. And Pursuit and Night Slash still push for that slot, and QA is, many a time, reduced to the sidelines. At least, it is in my opinion.
  • Stealth Rock: I never usually factor Stealth Rock into equations, for the simple reason that I would never dream of using this without a Rapid Spinner. Seriously though, most Stealth Rockers are also fairly suicidal and are therefore not around to rock for a second time.
  • Fire Spin: I said in my post, it was a filler. I suggested a fairly diverse array of moves to replace it. Most of them, of course, are just to screw over whatever bulky water decides to switch in.
  • EVs: I am completely hopeless at devising useful EV spreads. Or at least, original ones. I just am not able to devote enough time to calculations to develop the sort of spreads you get from the experts. They are the Marmite and I am the Jam, you could say.
  • Hidden Power Rock: Huh? I've not thought of that... although these Heatran must have trouble with Dragons, without HP ice (although they could still carry Dragon Pulse). OK, perhaps not 'Mence or 'Nite, but what about Flygon? He now resists everything Heatran can throw at him (barring Dragon Pulse and Explosion) and has STAB Earthquakes to throw around. And Swords Dance Gliscor... maybe slightly less.

I do still think Moltres is the best answer to aforementioned 'Big Three' or 'Holy Trinity' or 'Dynamic Trio' or whatever the hell they are now known as... you will argue that it is fairly good at its job, but Zapdos is so much better at what it does. But is it entirely implausible that Stealth Rock hangs over our heads as we type, much in the same way as it hangs over Moltres, taking so much from it? If we could rid ourselves of its hellish spectre, could we see the fiery bird in a new light?

I don't want the Rocks banned, of course. Just please tell yourself that I have a Rapid Spinner, and see it from that angle. I just think this would be preferable to running Zapdos and Heatran on one team to take out these three threats.

Credit to WW2, God and Batman for the nicknames. But since two of them don't exist and one killed millions of people, credit shall be given to Turaga Nuju instead.
 
Taylor said:
When I personally decided that I would use Magnezone in one of my teams, I thought I may as well take it to the next level. And so, I developed my initial Magnezone spread into a Choice Scarf varient; one which survives Choice Band Superpower, too. The primary reason behind this was, not only does Magnezone get rid of those pesky Scizor, thanks to the welcomed boost in Magnezone's speed, I can revenge kill all Lucario; except, of course, Choice Scarf varients, ones which I personally don't find threatening anyway. Additionally, it's a prominent outcome when Gengar, Infernape, or Starmie, for example, unexpectedly fall to a powerful Thunderbolt.
Click to expand...

Do you run Timid for Choice Scarf Magnezone? Note that Timid 252 SpA / 252 Spe Magnezone nets less special attack than Modest Magneton with the same EV spread. Your attack score is only hindered by ten base points, negligible since you'll only be utilizing it with Explosion. The only major hinderance would be the considerable drop in defenses.

252 SpA / 252 Spe+ Magnezone nets 359 SpA / 240 Spe
252 SpA+ / 252 Spe Magneton nets 372 SpA / 239 Spe

The one speed point is negligible except in Magnezone v. Magneton situations (lol). I'm not sure if the extra spec. attack nets anymore KOs, but it's worth looking into IMHO.
 
Taylor said:
When I personally decided that I would use Magnezone in one of my teams, I thought I may as well take it to the next level. And so, I developed my initial Magnezone spread into a Choice Scarf varient; one which survives Choice Band Superpower, too. The primary reason behind this was, not only does Magnezone get rid of those pesky Scizor, thanks to the welcomed boost in Magnezone's speed, I can revenge kill all Lucario; except, of course, Choice Scarf varients, ones which I personally don't find threatening anyway. Additionally, it's a prominent outcome when Gengar, Infernape, or Starmie, for example, unexpectedly fall to a powerful Thunderbolt.

The most intriguing combination I've read so far has got to be Gorm's Zapdos & Machamp duo.
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I don't see how you can accomplish such feat and keep Magnezone reliably fast, as at least with the damage calculations I've done, as only a 216 Defense and 252 HP Magnezone can survive if CB Superpower does maximum damage (99%) and that isn't even taking Stealth Rock into account.

Maybe I'm missing something drastic?
 
Forgive me for the following:
one which survives Choice Band Superpower, too
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It was incorrect.

You know, TeaBag, I initially considered Magneton. But I decided it was best to favor Magnezone's HP, defenses and its Attack stat more so than Magneton's mere increase in Special Attack.
 
Taylor said:
Forgive me for the following: It was incorrect.

You know, TeaBag, I initially considered Magneton. But I decided it was best to favor Magnezone's HP, defenses and its Attack stat more so than Magneton's mere increase in Special Attack.
Click to expand...

Magneton has 120 base SpA, Magnezone has base 130. I think you meant speed, which Magneton has base 70 in while Magnezone has base 60.
 
no, he's referring to the different use of evs. magneton can be ev'd to be 1 speed point below magnezone and have about 25 more special attack.
 
considering this thread has few wall combinations im gonna post a wall combination Blissey, Rotom-H and Machamp. the point is blissey walls all special attacks (obviously) and Rotom takes care of the fighting types that counter bliss and machamp counters the dark types (tyranitar, weavile) that try to shut down Rotom. not the best but is working pretty good for me
 
Yeah, so I've been an asshole and been keeping this combo to myself... hehe. This combo handles most of the shit in Platinum:


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Bronzong @ Light Clay
Ability: Levitate
Nature: Relaxed
*Gyro Ball / Earthquake
*Light Screen
*Reflect
*Explosion

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Gyarados @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
Nature: Impish
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpDef
*Waterfall
*Dragon Dance / Stone Edge
*Rest
*Sleep Talk

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Jolteon @ Choice Specs
Ability: Volt Absorb
Nature: Timid
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Spe / 252 SpAtk
*Thunderbolt
*Hidden Power [Grass]
*Shadow Ball
*Baton Pass


Yeah, I've been a dick and have been holding this shit out. Maybe one day people will realize how utterly broken this combo is... ok its not broken, but it is a solid defensive core, and if you go Dragon Dance on Gyarados you have quite a solid offensive power to it too. Anyway, the premise is that Bronzong switches in on a ton of shit and sets up a Screen. And will pretty much beat Salamence 9 times out of 10.

Gyarados anal rapes Heatran and Scizor... stopping them cold all day. Gyarados can use Stone Edge to beat other Gyarados also, but then it may lose to Roost Scizors, which is where Dragon Dance comes in handy. Gyarados can switch in on a Swords Dance. Dragon Dance up with Scizor as it Swords Dances again, then 2HKO with Waterfall while Bullet Punch / X-Scissor come up pretty damn short. The cool thing is, if Scizor Bullet Punches, it has a chance not to 3HKO you even at +3 (unless my memory is fucked up). If it tries to roost, you are faster and just kill it. Heatran doesn't do shit to this beast, so you can switch in all day. Gyarados you will weaken enough for a faster scarfer to take it down if you go Stone Edge.

But anyway, after your Gyarados starts Dragon Dancing up the only thing that can stop it is electric attacks, so Jolteon absorbs them all day and fires off lethal Specs Thunderbolts like its his day job. Hidden Power Grass is an infinitely better option than Hidden Power Ice because Thunderbolt buttfucks Salamence and Skymin for OHKOs after SR anyway (and you OHKO Mamoswine and Swampert switch ins with HP Grass). Dry Baton Pass is funny when you all these Scarf Pokemon running around locked into Thunderbolt.

Not a perfect combo, but you cover a lot with those three. And you still have 3 more team slots!
 
RaikouLover said:
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Gyarados @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
Nature: Impish
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpDef
*Waterfall
*Dragon Dance / Stone Edge
*Rest
*Sleep Talk
Click to expand...

Invest the last 4 EVs in speed since they won't make a difference in spec. defense anyways.

SpecsJolt is largely underrated, massive props for using it. <3
 
I've actually been using those three Pokemon for a while too though with a few differences... I made Bronzong a bit bulkier on the Special side, went with bulky Gyarados for a bit more offense, and have a Wish Jolteon to keep everyone healthy and going longer (I hate blowing up Bronzong). And I do agree that it is very solid against almost all of the common threats.

Poor Moltres... It could be so good right now but alas it is competely screwed over by SR... Really is a shame.
 
What duh... haha, I'm actually breeding for those 3 pokemon (Bronzong/Jolteon/Gyarados) (with different movesets and EVs) for Battle Tower starting this morning before I read this thread just now. Quite the coincidence. I hope and think this combo will do fairly well also.
 
I love Skarmory and Swampert. Add in Tentacruel and it'll be hard to stop.

Why? Skarm sets up Spikes, Swampert sets up SR, Tentacruel sets up Toxic Spikes. Those 3 resist every type.
 
Hippowdon + Tentacruel + Blissey + Rotom-H.

Hippowdon handles 90% of the physical sweepers.
Tentacruel sets up Toxic Spikes, spins Stealth rock and Spikes while instantly removing Toxic Spikes. On top of that it is the best counter to Mixape which would otherwise break this combo apart.
Blissey is your <insert special attacker> wall.
Rotom-H completely walls Scizor and Lucario while it can trick a scarf to things to make them unable to setup.
Your defensive combination won't be hurt by the opponent's tricked scarf as you are already going last. ;)
 
Currently my stall team contains:

Hippowdon, Tentacruel, Blissey, Rotom-C (choice specs>choice scarf for power)

So now we have a sandstormer/SRer (Hippowdon), ToxicSpiker (Tentacruel), Cleric (Blissey) and Rapidspin blocker (Rotom-C). All we need is a Spiker and Wish passer which I've chosen Skarmory and Vaporeon for the respective job.
 
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