Nah, don't worry about it. The onus is on the community to make a compelling argument. We are already going out of our way to make a more concrete definition of uber, where I would argue that most of the competitively intelligent players don't really need a definition.
Ok, after very slight modifications of Tangerine's latest attempts at characteristics, we have:
Offensive Characteristic
A Pokémon is uber if it is capable of sweeping through a significant portion of teams in the Metagame with little effort.
Defensive Characteristic
A Pokémon is uber if a Pokemon is able to wall and stall out a significant portion of the metagame.
Support Characteristic
A Pokémon is uber if it can consistently set up a situation in which it makes it substantially easier for other pokemon to sweep.
My first instinct is that these may be too subjective to be unequivocally grasped by the entire community. But I am taken back to what I just stated above: it is the onus of the community to decide what "significant" means, and what constitutes "little effort", and how often something has to happen for it to have happened "consistently". That's said, let's tackle these one at a time and make them perfect.
Offensive Characteristic
A Pokémon is uber if it is capable of sweeping through a significant portion of teams in the Metagame with little effort.
Very early in this thread, we attempted to quantify "little effort" as it pertains to sweeping by stating "one turn of set up or less". We can now use X-Act's latest ETCS (Excel Type Coverage Sheet, lol I just liked saying "applet", it's a sexy word =/) to get a 100% objective measure of the extent to which the entire OC (Offensive Characteristic). I did append an "in common battle conditions" to my first two cracks at characteristics, and while you would think that "SR could be up" and "not all pokes always come in at 100%" go without saying, what we are trying to do with this thread here is make a definition that everyone can understand and apply at a glance, not just those who have been around competitive pokemon for years. So I think it's fair to put that in there for all three chars.
Anyway, while an attempt at making the characteristic objective, "one turn of set up or less" is probably too restrictive, since Bulk Up Dialga and CM Giratina both will need more than one turn to sweep through most of standard (Skarmory is only one pokemon so "significant portion of teams" still applies) but definitely won't have too much trouble doing that since like nothing in standard can kill them.
We can use the ETCS to determine just how much is enough damage literally to the metagame, even though this part could be left up to the responsible and informed voter's intuition According to the ETCS, 359Atk/178SpA Garchomp would do 81.93% damage to the Dec07 Metagame with just EQ/Outrage/Fire Blast without even SDing. Fire Fang brings this down to 81.19%. If we believe that Yachechomp can easily get a SD (we do), then 98.01% is the damage output with Fire Fang (better than what Levitate Bronzong will now take from any attack). That 98.01% average damage output can be a benchmark of sorts, since it was in large part Yachechomp that pushed Garchomp over the uber edge. If we try to compare what an Adamant, Yache, 405Atk DD Salamence can do...we only get 95.36% with Earthquake/Outrage/Fire Blast after a DD (and 95.22% with Fire Fang).
Besides being a lower percentage, Salamence obviously has to contend with Stealth Rock where Chomp does not, and Salamence is more susceptible, with a 4HP/252Atk/252Spe spread at least, of being revenge killed than Garchomp by things like Scizor's Bullet Punch and Lucario's Extremespeed. But besides the beauty of the ETCS being able to literally quantify this stuff, the intuition of smart voters will likely triumph regardless...there is a reason that Salamence is not uber and Garchomp is, and that reason may be just that difference between 98.01% and 95.36%, and it may be greater.
The only thing left here is whether we want to make the distinction betweem "teams" in the metagame or "pokemon" in the metagame. Thinking about it in terms of teams is actually better, whether or not this was intended, for this reason: Tyranitar, Houndoom, Toxic Porygon2, Spiritomb, Gyarados and BP Togekiss may all stop Wobbuffet in its tracks, but...this is not a team of pokemon at all. If one has to throw the few counters a pokemon has together in order to make a "team" and this team has no cohesion, guess what? The offending pokemon is probably uber. It's definitely uber by this OC, anyway (and the above "team" is easily dispatched with by a simple Zapdos/Scizor combination).
So finally, we have:
Offensive Characteristic
A Pokémon is uber if, under common battle conditions, it is capable of sweeping through a significant portion of teams in the metagame with little effort.
Now onto the DC:
Defensive Characteristic
A Pokémon is uber if a Pokemon is able to wall and stall out a significant portion of the metagame.
Ok, this to me needs to be distinguished from support moves like Toxic Spikes, and to a lesser extent, Stealth Rock and Spikes. A Calm Mind/Rest/Sleep Talk/Roar 252HP/252Def/4Spe Bold Suicune might be a dick for a while, but it isn't going to be able to literally do anything unless all three of the entry hazards are in play. An example of this we've seen in practice is Stallrein, of course. With Protect/Sub/Blizzard/Roar in the Hail, Ice Body Walrein shits on pretty much the entire metagame with little effort at all, and doesn't need much or anything besides Hail to do consistent damage to a significant portion of the metagame. However, when you add "under common battle conditions" to this DC, it accounts for the fact that neverending Hail just is not very common in the metagame (Abomasnow was #61 in usage with the latest stats). This is a good example of how "under common battle conditions" accounts for the almost-loophole but obviously standard pokemon without going out of our way to ensure they are included.
Finally, one of my favorite Deoxys sets goes a good job in my opinion of being one of the best embodiments of the DC: Deoxys-L@Leftovers: Night Shade/Taunt/Recover/Thunderwave, "245 Speed". You aren't doing much to this pokemon if you get Thunderwaved because all your stupid shit will get Taunted. Pressure adds to the mix here...yes, Tyranitar and Scizor would make this poke have a tough time, but again, "significant portion of the metagame". I rest my case here:
Defensive Characteristic
A Pokémon is uber if, under common battle conditions, it is able to wall and stall out a significant portion of the metagame.
Finally, we have our SC:
Support Characteristic
A Pokémon is uber if it can consistently set up a situation in which it makes it substantially easier for other pokemon to sweep.
Okay. Light Screen and Reflect, etc. First of all, one of the first things that crosses my mind here while playing devil's advocate against these characteristics is why the end of this couldn't apple to "stall out a significant portion of the metagame", as in say Forretress were able to very reliably get Toxic Spikes and three layers of Spikes and SR down, and the above Suicune I talked about came in...which would be uber? I don't think either, because Suicune still needed a shitload of outside help to then attempt to stall...and I don't think it'd be able to pull that off too long and pass on the DC front. Tough to theorymon this but whatever. The point is Dual Screen Deoxys-S, and that it was able to do this thanks to Taunt and ridiculous Speed. The point here is Baton Pass Mew, and how Maniaclyrasist's BP uber team was almost too cheap for a broken "metagame". And the point here is that Smeargle cannot reliably Baton Pass Belly Drums to anything it wants to. The SC is therefore kind of self-explanatory—you either lend great support, like a brand-new Miracle Bra, or you will eventually get popped real bad like a catcher who forgot his cup calling for a low fastball.
So:
Support Characteristic
A Pokémon is uber if, under common battle conditions, it can consistently set up a situation in which it makes it substantially easier for other pokemon to sweep.
Ok I think that's pretty straightforward. Any comments?
