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np: UU - A New Beginning

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Although I do understand the process of testing, but by banning a few at a time, it can actually change the game quite awhile, making others that are suspect but hiding behind the greater suspects to show.

That very phenomenon is why it will not be done your way. It would be just like you said, every time we banned a few pokemon at a time because they appeared stronger on paper than everything else, the pokemon they countered would become suspect, and then we'd ban those pokemon, and the pokemon they countered would then become suspect and so on and so on until we have a huge BL list and we're right back where we started!

Just because you think Milotic is too strong for UU or I think Frosslass is too strong for UU or anyone thinks anything is too good for UU does not mean we should deprive those pokemon, and therefore ourselves, a long thorough test!

As for my experience in new UU, it's pretty much thus: Winning means either stalling or slapping a choice item on 4+ pokemon and crushing your opponent with things like staraptor, slaking, shaymin, gallade, blaziken etc. From actual playtesting these pokemon are too slow or too frail to setup and get more bang for their buck by using a choice item. My current stall team is undefeated in about 12 matches after Lonely Ness gave me some advice on how to fix it, and the only thing that gives me trouble are teams full of choice banders.
 
Yeah, I really do think banning as little as possible is the best way to go. Sure, if we absolutely have to ban over 10 Pokemon, we should do it, but I really think it's best to keep it as low as possible (under 5 would be good, 0 would be ideal).

One thing I'd like to try out is Regigigas. If we look at it as a Pokemon with base 110 HP, 110 Defense, 110 Special Defense and 1 weakness, it doesn't look particularly shabby to be honest. Plus, 80 Special Attack isn't bad, and its Attack is still almost useable during Slow Start. Plus, if we manage to keep it in for 5 turns (if that would ever happen), we get to use an 'Uber' in UU!

I don't really know what to do. It looks good and bad on paper at the same time, but I guess the best thing to do is actually try it out for real, rather than just using theory to determine how good it is.

Also, it's nice with no Dragon-types so common in UU for a change. We seem to be at risk of Dragonite or Flygon dropping to UU sometime in the future though.
 
I've been swept by a Regigigas running Confuse Ray, Thunder Wave, Return, Revenge with max hp and atk. However this was before I had my current team perfected.

I was unable to kill it in the two turns I didn't get haxed by parafusion and it promptly swept my team. It's majorly lucked based and forces switches and I will be lobbying for its designation as a suspect unless I am able to do a lot better against it the next time I see it.
 
I've been swept by a Regigigas running Confuse Ray, Thunder Wave, Return, Revenge with max hp and atk. However this was before I had my current team perfected.

I was unable to kill it in the two turns I didn't get haxed by parafusion and it promptly swept my team. It's majorly lucked based and forces switches and I will be lobbying for its designation as a suspect unless I am able to do a lot better against it the next time I see it.

That sounds pretty cool.

I've also realized that Altaria is the only fully evolved Dragon-type in UU now. I was gonna have a DD-Outrage one, but then I realized that Altaria has the same base Attack as Gible and Vibrava, so I may rethink that. Shelgon has the strongest Outrage now (it's as strong as Kingdra's), but his Special Defense and Speed make me want to cry. Dragonair seems more well rounded, but I think it's stats are simply too bad to be competing with Shaymin, Registeel, Raikou, etc, even if Registeel seems to be the only Pokemon used a lot in UU that actually resists Outrage. The next best Steel-type looks to be Steelix.
 
After two days of solid play I get the feeling that I'm going to enjoy this new UU metagame a lot. It plays so differently to both the current OU and the former UU (although that may change of course in the coming months) and feels like a breath of fresh air.

Although with this assertion comes a stern warning, which is that there will probably be some people out there who are going to call for the banning of certain Pokemon primarily because they contribute to a different style of metagame that they don't like or are unwilling to get used to. I urge everyone who takes this test seriously to shoot down and completely discredit any such arguments whenever they appear, as it is simply not relevant to whether a Pokemon is broken or not.

Although not quite the same thing, I also don't like to see arguments like this:

I've been swept by a Regigigas running Confuse Ray, Thunder Wave, Return, Revenge with max hp and atk. However this was before I had my current team perfected.

I was unable to kill it in the two turns I didn't get haxed by parafusion and it promptly swept my team. It's majorly lucked based and forces switches and I will be lobbying for its designation as a suspect unless I am able to do a lot better against it the next time I see it.

So basically 'My team got swept by Regigigas, but instead of making adjustments to my 'perfect' team I'm just going to call for it to be a suspect if it beats me again next time'. Anyone else see how retarded this is? Just because YOUR particular team is weak to it does not mean it is in any way broken. In fact if you feel this way, YOU should use it against other players in order to prove how broken it is.
 
So basically 'My team got swept by Regigigas, but instead of making adjustments to my 'perfect' team I'm just going to call for it to be a suspect if it beats me again next time'. Anyone else see how retarded this is? Just because YOUR particular team is weak to it does not mean it is in any way broken. In fact if you feel this way, YOU should use it against other players in order to prove how broken it is.

How about if it beats my team because my pokemon couldn't attack for five turns due to parafusion hax, I will by lobbying for it to be suspect. It is generally agreed that moves that have a huge payoff based on luck are banned, and I feel Regigas as a pokemon is no different.
 
After two days of solid play I get the feeling that I'm going to enjoy this new UU metagame a lot. It plays so differently to both the current OU and the former UU (although that may change of course in the coming months) and feels like a breath of fresh air.

Although with this assertion comes a stern warning, which is that there will probably be some people out there who are going to call for the banning of certain Pokemon primarily because they contribute to a different style of metagame that they don't like or are unwilling to get used to. I urge everyone who takes this test seriously to shoot down and completely discredit any such arguments whenever they appear, as it is simply not relevant to whether a Pokemon is broken or not.

Although not quite the same thing, I also don't like to see arguments like this:



So basically 'My team got swept by Regigigas, but instead of making adjustments to my 'perfect' team I'm just going to call for it to be a suspect if it beats me again next time'. Anyone else see how retarded this is? Just because YOUR particular team is weak to it does not mean it is in any way broken. In fact if you feel this way, YOU should use it against other players in order to prove how broken it is.

Well, the first half of your post is good. :) I agree with you totally. It's absolutely vital that nothing that doesn't need to be banned, get's banned. I don't really know what we can do about it though. When we get to future stages of the test, we can see what people are trying to do with this metagame, but then it might be too late... However, I don't think anybody has said anything in this thread yet that is potentially dangerous to the metagame, so we may be okay.

I don't think Regigigas needs to be banned personally, but I haven't had much experience with it, so if it proves ban-worthy (which I doubt), I'll be all for it.

Also, I don't think TVboyCanti actually thinks his team is perfect...
 
He didn't misread that I would want it to be declared suspect, he misread why I would want it declared suspect.

If my team gets swept by a sub Swords Dance Feraligatr, than it's my fault that I wasn't prepared for it, not Feraligatrs fault, because it was in my power to prepare for it before hand and stop it during the battle. However, if I get swept by a Regigigas because my pokemon were unable to do anything for 3+ turns due to hax and Regigas huge defenses, thats regigas' fault for abusing luck to score kos. It doesn't matter if I was prepared for Regigas or not, there was nothing I could do about it because of luck. This destroys the spirit of competitive battling, which is strategy over luck, and is the reason why OHKOs and Double Team are banned, regardless of whether they can be countered.

Also I no longer believe my team is perfect, as I just found out I am very weak to said Feraligatr and had to switch out a pokemon to improve my teams defensive type coverage.
 
Nah, don't worry about it. The onus is on the community to make a compelling argument. We are already going out of our way to make a more concrete definition of uber, where I would argue that most of the competitively intelligent players don't really need a definition.

Ok, after very slight modifications of Tangerine's latest attempts at characteristics, we have:


Offensive Characteristic
A Pokémon is uber if it is capable of sweeping through a significant portion of teams in the Metagame with little effort.

Defensive Characteristic
A Pokémon is uber if a Pokemon is able to wall and stall out a significant portion of the metagame.

Support Characteristic
A Pokémon is uber if it can consistently set up a situation in which it makes it substantially easier for other pokemon to sweep.


My first instinct is that these may be too subjective to be unequivocally grasped by the entire community. But I am taken back to what I just stated above: it is the onus of the community to decide what "significant" means, and what constitutes "little effort", and how often something has to happen for it to have happened "consistently". That's said, let's tackle these one at a time and make them perfect.

Offensive Characteristic
A Pokémon is uber if it is capable of sweeping through a significant portion of teams in the Metagame with little effort.

Very early in this thread, we attempted to quantify "little effort" as it pertains to sweeping by stating "one turn of set up or less". We can now use X-Act's latest ETCS (Excel Type Coverage Sheet, lol I just liked saying "applet", it's a sexy word =/) to get a 100% objective measure of the extent to which the entire OC (Offensive Characteristic). I did append an "in common battle conditions" to my first two cracks at characteristics, and while you would think that "SR could be up" and "not all pokes always come in at 100%" go without saying, what we are trying to do with this thread here is make a definition that everyone can understand and apply at a glance, not just those who have been around competitive pokemon for years. So I think it's fair to put that in there for all three chars.

Anyway, while an attempt at making the characteristic objective, "one turn of set up or less" is probably too restrictive, since Bulk Up Dialga and CM Giratina both will need more than one turn to sweep through most of standard (Skarmory is only one pokemon so "significant portion of teams" still applies) but definitely won't have too much trouble doing that since like nothing in standard can kill them.

We can use the ETCS to determine just how much is enough damage literally to the metagame, even though this part could be left up to the responsible and informed voter's intuition According to the ETCS, 359Atk/178SpA Garchomp would do 81.93% damage to the Dec07 Metagame with just EQ/Outrage/Fire Blast without even SDing. Fire Fang brings this down to 81.19%. If we believe that Yachechomp can easily get a SD (we do), then 98.01% is the damage output with Fire Fang (better than what Levitate Bronzong will now take from any attack). That 98.01% average damage output can be a benchmark of sorts, since it was in large part Yachechomp that pushed Garchomp over the uber edge. If we try to compare what an Adamant, Yache, 405Atk DD Salamence can do...we only get 95.36% with Earthquake/Outrage/Fire Blast after a DD (and 95.22% with Fire Fang).

Besides being a lower percentage, Salamence obviously has to contend with Stealth Rock where Chomp does not, and Salamence is more susceptible, with a 4HP/252Atk/252Spe spread at least, of being revenge killed than Garchomp by things like Scizor's Bullet Punch and Lucario's Extremespeed. But besides the beauty of the ETCS being able to literally quantify this stuff, the intuition of smart voters will likely triumph regardless...there is a reason that Salamence is not uber and Garchomp is, and that reason may be just that difference between 98.01% and 95.36%, and it may be greater.

The only thing left here is whether we want to make the distinction betweem "teams" in the metagame or "pokemon" in the metagame. Thinking about it in terms of teams is actually better, whether or not this was intended, for this reason: Tyranitar, Houndoom, Toxic Porygon2, Spiritomb, Gyarados and BP Togekiss may all stop Wobbuffet in its tracks, but...this is not a team of pokemon at all. If one has to throw the few counters a pokemon has together in order to make a "team" and this team has no cohesion, guess what? The offending pokemon is probably uber. It's definitely uber by this OC, anyway (and the above "team" is easily dispatched with by a simple Zapdos/Scizor combination).

So finally, we have:

Offensive Characteristic
A Pokémon is uber if, under common battle conditions, it is capable of sweeping through a significant portion of teams in the metagame with little effort.

Now onto the DC:

Defensive Characteristic
A Pokémon is uber if a Pokemon is able to wall and stall out a significant portion of the metagame.

Ok, this to me needs to be distinguished from support moves like Toxic Spikes, and to a lesser extent, Stealth Rock and Spikes. A Calm Mind/Rest/Sleep Talk/Roar 252HP/252Def/4Spe Bold Suicune might be a dick for a while, but it isn't going to be able to literally do anything unless all three of the entry hazards are in play. An example of this we've seen in practice is Stallrein, of course. With Protect/Sub/Blizzard/Roar in the Hail, Ice Body Walrein shits on pretty much the entire metagame with little effort at all, and doesn't need much or anything besides Hail to do consistent damage to a significant portion of the metagame. However, when you add "under common battle conditions" to this DC, it accounts for the fact that neverending Hail just is not very common in the metagame (Abomasnow was #61 in usage with the latest stats). This is a good example of how "under common battle conditions" accounts for the almost-loophole but obviously standard pokemon without going out of our way to ensure they are included.

Finally, one of my favorite Deoxys sets goes a good job in my opinion of being one of the best embodiments of the DC: Deoxys-L@Leftovers: Night Shade/Taunt/Recover/Thunderwave, "245 Speed". You aren't doing much to this pokemon if you get Thunderwaved because all your stupid shit will get Taunted. Pressure adds to the mix here...yes, Tyranitar and Scizor would make this poke have a tough time, but again, "significant portion of the metagame". I rest my case here:

Defensive Characteristic
A Pokémon is uber if, under common battle conditions, it is able to wall and stall out a significant portion of the metagame.

Finally, we have our SC:

Support Characteristic
A Pokémon is uber if it can consistently set up a situation in which it makes it substantially easier for other pokemon to sweep.


Okay. Light Screen and Reflect, etc. First of all, one of the first things that crosses my mind here while playing devil's advocate against these characteristics is why the end of this couldn't apple to "stall out a significant portion of the metagame", as in say Forretress were able to very reliably get Toxic Spikes and three layers of Spikes and SR down, and the above Suicune I talked about came in...which would be uber? I don't think either, because Suicune still needed a shitload of outside help to then attempt to stall...and I don't think it'd be able to pull that off too long and pass on the DC front. Tough to theorymon this but whatever. The point is Dual Screen Deoxys-S, and that it was able to do this thanks to Taunt and ridiculous Speed. The point here is Baton Pass Mew, and how Maniaclyrasist's BP uber team was almost too cheap for a broken "metagame". And the point here is that Smeargle cannot reliably Baton Pass Belly Drums to anything it wants to. The SC is therefore kind of self-explanatory—you either lend great support, like a brand-new Miracle Bra, or you will eventually get popped real bad like a catcher who forgot his cup calling for a low fastball.

So:

Support Characteristic
A Pokémon is uber if, under common battle conditions, it can consistently set up a situation in which it makes it substantially easier for other pokemon to sweep.

Ok I think that's pretty straightforward. Any comments?

Just as a note for what to look for when finding which pokemon are BL. Just in this case replace OU with UU and Uber with BL
 
He didn't misread that I would want it to be declared suspect, he misread why I would want it declared suspect.

If my team gets swept by a sub Swords Dance Feraligatr, than it's my fault that I wasn't prepared for it, not Feraligatrs fault, because it was in my power to prepare for it before hand and stop it during the battle. However, if I get swept by a Regigigas because my pokemon were unable to do anything for 3+ turns due to hax and Regigas huge defenses, thats regigas' fault for abusing luck to score kos. It doesn't matter if I was prepared for Regigas or not, there was nothing I could do about it because of luck. This destroys the spirit of competitive battling, which is strategy over luck, and is the reason why OHKOs and Double Team are banned, regardless of whether they can be countered.

Also I no longer believe my team is perfect, as I just found out I am very weak to said Feraligatr and had to switch out a pokemon to improve my teams defensive type coverage.

Well, I'll stand corrected then.

Well, I don't want him banned, but if you do, you better go off and popularize it then! However, is parafusion truly enough to get Regigigas to deserve a ban? I know it's a very bulky Pokemon, rather than all those frail parafusers, but still...

And I hate typing Regigigas...

And thanks for that RB Golbat. :)
 
Ive played UU for a lot of time (i liked it more than OU)
Now ive been playing this new "UU" and its pretty fun.

I found that Absol is very useful. With one SD under his belt it can rip a whole team with the strongest priority move in the game. His Sucker Punch.
With the advantage of getting Superpower in Platinum, now Absol can kill those Chanseys and Registeels on this new tier.
Also having Night Slash/Psycho Cut goes awesome with his ability, lots of critical hits XD

I loved using Dusclops in this new tier. Having enormous defenses and crappy HP is the perfect reason to use Pain Split.
Same as his awesome evo. he can will-o-wisp to finish those naughty physical attackers.

Other pokemon i found quite interesting was Raikou. IMO is a faster less bulkier (on physical side) Jirachi. His CM set can be quite devastating and with Substitute that ends the walls who try to T-wave or Toxic him to ruin his fun.

Go UU :)
 
Even though I mostly agreed with Tangerines definitions on what makes an uber, I now see that his definitions contain no justification for why OHKO moves and evasion moves are currently banned from competitively play. If it's decided that luck abuse should play no part in whether a pokemon is uber or not, then I will leave regigigas to his own.

Also, that was a really really long quote, probably better to just put in a link to the post next time.
 
All in all, I reckon UU is going to be far more defensive a metagame than OU or Ubers. There are very few good mixed attackers and quite a large number of walls available. Unlike in OU, grass-type walls don't have an awful lot to fear since very few pokemon have the attacking power and the speed to beat them down.
 
@Objection: Well in the new "UU" the only fast Grass "Walls" (if them can be considered walls) are Sceptile, Jumpluff and MAYBE Leafeon and Shaymin. Still i dont find in them a full wallish spirit XD. In this tier, there are a lot of potential fire blasters or ice beamers (Houndoom is one of my favs xD).
 
@Objection: Well in the new "UU" the only fast Grass "Walls" (if them can be considered walls) are Sceptile, Jumpluff and MAYBE Leafeon and Shaymin. Still i dont find in them a full wallish spirit XD. In this tier, there are a lot of potential fire blasters or ice beamers (Houndoom is one of my favs xD).

Notice I also said attacking power. Venusaur and Tangrowth may not be terribly fast, but they're so bulky that if your sweepers aren't dedicated to taking down grass types, they won't be able to kill them.
However, one pokemon that might give grass types a lot of trouble is mixed Honchkrow.
 
Honchkrow is a pest... together with Staraptor.
the good thing about the second though is that he's always Choiced. If someone tries some Roost/LO set it will be a lot harder to stop...

but anyway, I'm using some defensive team and it's doing pretty good. Milotic and Tomb are very difficult to kill, and some of its offensive counters can't switch in freely in the case of Milotic (I run Surf, Toxic, Ice Beam and Recover).

Life Orb Shaymin is a problem too... only Chansey can switch into that thing. I used it for a while and had some people use it against me, and it's a lot scary
 
Someone was complaining to me that he was only seeing Crobat leads, so here are some of the most effective leads that I've encountered/used while playing UU

Spr_4p_478.png

Frosslass @ focus sash
timid 252 spe / 252 sp atk
taunt
spikes
ice beam
destiny bond / trick

Guranteed two layers of spikes if your faster, has the fast taunt that everybody loves as well and is immune to fake out and resists u-turn. Taunt works great with Destiny Bond to force switches or nab a ko. Trick can be used to steal an item before dying, its especially useful if your team has problems with choice item teams.

Spr_4d_169.png

Crobat @ lum berry
Jolly 252 hp / 82 sp def / 176 spe
taunt
hypnosis
roost
u-turn

Fastest taunt and hypnosis in the game, as well as having u-turn for scouting. Lum berry is so you can taunt scarfed sleep leads like Roserade. Speed evs are enough to outspeed +speed nature Sceptile. Roost lets hang around a while to scout attacks. This set is beaten by choice scarf trick leads.

Spr_4p_480.png

Uxie @ Choice Scarf
Impish 252 hp / 50 def / 170 sp df / 38 spe
trick
stealth rock
yawn
u-turn

cripples somethin with choice scarf then puts up the rocks and forces a switch or sleep with yawn, and u-turn for scouting. 38 speed evs to outspeed frosslass, though you may want more to beat crobat or purugly. EVs give balanced defenses but are totally customizable, reflect and light screen can also be substituted in for any of yawn or u-turn.

Spr_4d_432.png

Purugly @ focus sash
Jolly 252 atk / 252 spe
Fake Out
Hypnosis
Taunt
U-Turn / sucker punch / return

Fast Taunt combined with Hypnosis and STAB fake out. focus sash in case hypnosis missses. U-turn to scout switches or sucker punch to kill frosslass after its taunted or return for crappy damage. Resists fire and ice with thick fat, but has paper defenses.

Spr_4d_424_m.png

Ambipom @ Life Orb
Jolly 252 atk / 252 spe
Fake Out
Taunt / Double Hit / Brick Break /
U-turn
Payback

STAB technician Fake Out coming off of 100 base attack is great for forcing out leads and it can outspeed frosslass and taunt it and then kill it with payback. u-turn for the obligatory scouting. A lot of people have been using double hit over taunt or payback, but imo its better to just go with fake out and u-turn for dealing damage, as double hit misses a lot.
 
Someone was complaining to me that he was only seeing Crobat leads, so here are some of the most effective leads that I've encountered/used while playing UU

<snip>

Spr_4d_432.png

Purugly @ focus sash
Jolly 252 atk / 252 spe
Fake Out
Hypnosis
Taunt
U-Turn / sucker punch / return

Fast Taunt combined with Hypnosis and STAB fake out. focus sash in case hypnosis missses. U-turn to scout switches or sucker punch to kill frosslass after its taunted or return for crappy damage. Resists fire and ice with thick fat, but has paper defenses.

<snip>

This is pretty much completely outclassed by Persian, which can run the same set and pull it off better (except he doesn't get the Fire/Ice resistance, but this thing dies if you poke it anyway). The only thing Purugly has that Persian doesn't is Sucker Punch, which isn't that great of an option without STAB anyway.

Persian @ Focus Sash (or Life Orb)
Jolly 252 Atk / 252 Spe / 4 HP
Technician
~ Fake Out
~ Hypnosis
~ Taunt
~ U-Turn / Return
 
I don't see how persian outclasses purugly when purugly has 81 base attack compared to persian's 70 base attack and both pokemon outspeed the same speed tier. And Persian can't pull off the nickname BEEFCAKE! the way purugly can.
 
I don't see how persian outclasses purugly when purugly has 81 base attack compared to persian's 70 base attack and both pokemon outspeed the same speed tier.
Because STABed Fake Out with Technician has so much more power than 11 extra base attack. Fake Out is Normal type if you haven't realized already.
 
Honchkrow is a pest... together with Staraptor.
the good thing about the second though is that he's always Choiced. If someone tries some Roost/LO set it will be a lot harder to stop...

but anyway, I'm using some defensive team and it's doing pretty good. Milotic and Tomb are very difficult to kill, and some of its offensive counters can't switch in freely in the case of Milotic (I run Surf, Toxic, Ice Beam and Recover).

Life Orb Shaymin is a problem too... only Chansey can switch into that thing. I used it for a while and had some people use it against me, and it's a lot scary

I actually like Moltres to switch into almost any Shaymin, provided you keep rocks off the field. Against offensive variants, it soaks up Seed Flare, and drains it of PP with Pressure. SubSeeding it can at least U-Turn on the Substitute, but it might take quite an investment to break its Substitute.

Altaria and Crobat can both try their best to switch in, resist Seed Flare 4x, and avoiding Earth Power.

Registeel is a great choice for a counter to offensive Shaymin as well, shrugging off everything outside of Choice Specs Earth Power. Regice is arguably even better with its massive special defense, and not fearing the drop from Seed Flare either.

As you can see, a lot of counters are brought down with HP Rock/Ice. Having Stealth Rocks up too makes Shaymin's life so much easier, as they usually strip at least a quarter of some of its best counters HPs. Not to mention a lot of counters are slow, and if it's SubSeeding Shaymin, they may be in for a world of hurt without a phazing move.

Anyways, I totally agree that Shaymin will be making life miserable for a couple of months.

And about Chansey, I thought it would suck at first.. and while, I've not been proven terribly wrong, it can have some success. I think it's pretty much a sure thing that it MUST run Thunder-Wave/Seismic Toss. It can't even threaten a 4x weak Pokemon (think Altaria) with its pathetic Ice Beam. Thunder-Wave at least provides a way to deal with Mismagius while it switches in, who otherwise loves Chansey as setup bait. Spiritomb, of course, has no such issues with Thunder-Wave.
 
From my initial couple of battles:

Bulky calm minders are a bitch, particularly rest talk spiritomb. Shaymin is also pretty strong although Regice stops it cold and has is one to watch as it certain is hard to take down, (in the battle I'm in now, Weezing's Flamethrower is doing ~18%) although SR may see to that. I haven't seen Raikou yet but my theorymon tells me Seismic Toss will deal with it well.

Nothing can really switch into Staraptor without fear except Regirock really and it's hard to revenge kill or anything with Scarf.

I'm surprised I haven't seen more SR with Staraptor, Moltres, Regice, Entei etc all weak.
 
From my initial couple of battles:

Bulky calm minders are a bitch, particularly rest talk spiritomb. Shaymin is also pretty strong although Regice stops it cold and has is one to watch as it certain is hard to take down, (in the battle I'm in now, Weezing's Flamethrower is doing ~18%) although SR may see to that. I haven't seen Raikou yet but my theorymon tells me Seismic Toss will deal with it well.

Nothing can really switch into Staraptor without fear except Regirock really and it's hard to revenge kill or anything with Scarf.

I'm surprised I haven't seen more SR with Staraptor, Moltres, Regice, Entei etc all weak.

Rotom! Especially without Choice Band, it can handle Staraptor with STAB Thunderbolt, or burning it. All while it's immune to Return/Close Combat, and resist Brave Bird/U-Turn. The best Staraptor will muster is Pursuit against Rotom, which looks to be on the rare side at the moment.. and is even less dangerous than Brave Bird if Rotom is not switching out.

Straprator is quite a beast in new UU though, forcing out many of the fighting types, and new Normal/Grassers that have come down.
 
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