Glitched Weather in English Platinum [Part 2, Clearer Video] (Update March 18, 2009)

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EeveeTrainer

EeveeTrainer

Back in September I made a thread documenting a strange occurrence of random rain in a WiFi battle on Pokemon Platinum. I had no idea what set it off, and I could only manage to take a very fuzzy video of the occurrence. Here is a link to that thread.

Recently, It happened again and I was able to take a clearer video of it. I believe it has something to do with Pursuit screwing up weather effects, as clearly the game thinks that it is both raining and sandstorming, though for some reason the rain hurts you like sandstorm (1/16). More testing should be done on this, it appears to be a simple glitch.

Here is a link to the new clearer video (apologies to all for keeping animations and music on in the video, I know Smogon doesn't exactly care for such frivolities): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1pH0ohPZJiM

For reference, here is the link to the older, fuzzy video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BCosjwPE-qM
 
Um, I guess we can say we appreciate the vid, but this really wasn't necessary since there are already many videos that show the acid rain glitch in Platinum. Whether it be a video that was uploaded specifically to show it, or from regular battle videos on Youtube.

And yes, it has already been known that KOing a fleeing pokemon with Pursuit in the Sandstorm causes it (if it doesn't directly cause the glitch, it at least increases the chances of it occuring). It also strengthens water moves and weakens fire moves. One time when it happened to me, I had Salamence out and used Flamethrower on a Metagross which based on Metalkid's Damage Calculator, had a very good chance of OHKOing but it only did about 50%. And I ran damage calcs with the inclusion of Rain and the damage range was about 50% as well.

The glitch also goes away after another Sandstorm is started. Usually this glitch is started by a Pursuiting Tyranitar. After you switch back in Tyranitar it'll whip up "another" Sandstorm and everything will be back to normal.

So basically there's really not much left to test with this glitch. However, if you could test to see if Swift Swim/Rain Dish works in the "acid rain", that would be cool.
 
I've posted a clear video of this in the research topic, and it's happened to me 3 times actually, all three have involved Tyranitar using Pursuit against a switching foe.

At least one of the times I got it, I eventually had Suicune out, and Surf did an unusually high amount of damage, leading me to believe this strange weather condition boosts Water-type moves just as if Rain Dance had been used.
 
This is important, because if it is in the game, it needs to be implemented into Shoddy, as Platinum/DP have a master/slave relationship when hooked up to battle (as is the case in Shoddy). I believe the killer rain that appears after Pursuit follows all the normal rules of rain.

And nyczxjay, you need to not talk down to me. I made a thread here to bring it more into the spotlight, it needs to be discussed.
 
EeveeTrainer said:
This is important, because if it is in the game, it needs to be implemented into Shoddy, as Platinum/DP have a master/slave relationship when hooked up to battle (as is the case in Shoddy). I believe the killer rain that appears after Pursuit follows all the normal rules of rain.

And nyczxjay, you need to not talk down to me. I made a thread here to bring it more into the spotlight, it needs to be discussed.
Click to expand...

Oh, I wasn't talking down to you. Sorry if you took it that way. I'm just restating all the known information on the glitch. But yea, whatever the case, sorry dude.

I don't think it should be implemented on Shoddy, at least not until the US version comes out. Who knows, maybe they fixed the glitch so that all the upcoming versions of Platinum (US, EUR, FRA, etc) won't have this annoying glitch.

And about the master/slave relationship... I know what you're talking about but what I've never really got a real answer to is whether or not the Hypnosis accuracy is set to 60 for D/P when it's battling with a Platinum cartridge. Do you know by any chance?
 
Works great for Swift Swim Relincath, Kabutops, Omastar. Double Speed and a 1.5 x Special Defense boost.
Plus a 1.5 x Water damage boost.

Also dealing 12.5% more damage to foes, while taking none of their own would really rock, no pun intended =).

In NU it would even help Corsola. (Using Hippodown's Pre-evo of course).

Also test this with Golduck/Rayquaza to see if Airlock and Cloud Nine cancel it out. Does Clefable's Magic Guard cancel out the damage? Would work great to have a Clefable's damage immunity paired with free 100% Accuracy Thunders.

Does Pursuit have to hit a water-type for this to activate? Does it work against Ice or Fire types for Sunny Day/Hail?

Does the Pursuit user have to be Immune to the weather effects? (I.e. Scizor, Tyranitar)

Does using an Abomasnow to activate Hail and then switching to Pursuit user such as Weavile activate the same thing except Hail instead of Sandstorm when used against Pokemon (Hail and another weather)?

Might be a good idea to also test with Kyogre/Groudon and a Pursuit user...
 
hhjj said:
Works great for Swift Swim Relincath, Kabutops, Omastar. Double Speed and a 1.5 x Special Defense boost.
Plus a 1.5 x Water damage boost.

Also dealing 12.5% more damage to foes, while taking none of their own would really rock, no pun intended =).

In NU it would even help Corsola. (Using Hippodown's Pre-evo of course).

Also test this with Golduck/Rayquaza to see if Airlock and Cloud Nine cancel it out. Does Clefable's Magic Guard cancel out the damage? Would work great to have a Clefable's damage immunity paired with free 100% Accuracy Thunders.

Does Pursuit have to hit a water-type for this to activate? Does it work against Ice or Fire types for Sunny Day/Hail?

Does the Pursuit user have to be Immune to the weather effects? (I.e. Scizor, Tyranitar)

Does using an Abomasnow to activate Hail and then switching to Pursuit user such as Weavile activate the same thing except Hail instead of Sandstorm when used against Pokemon (Hail and another weather)?

Might be a good idea to also test with Kyogre/Groudon and a Pursuit user...
Click to expand...

I don't think you should be theorymoning how a glitch would benefit the game, as most would frown upon someone exposing it to gain an upperhand, similar with Torment and Fly on Shoddy.
 
Does the "sandstorm" damages rock, steel and ground types?
Does the "Acid/Killer Rain" damages the types mentioned above, and water or poison?

LOL btw
 
Syberia said:
I've posted a clear video of this in the research topic, and it's happened to me 3 times actually, all three have involved Tyranitar using Pursuit against a switching foe.

At least one of the times I got it, I eventually had Suicune out, and Surf did an unusually high amount of damage, leading me to believe this strange weather condition boosts Water-type moves just as if Rain Dance had been used.
Click to expand...

It's happened to be as well, and then my Fire-type moves were weakened, so I think it's safe to say that this "killer-rain" works as normal rain, but also inflicts damage as Sandstorm would.

When I battled I noticed that the damage from the "killer-rain" did not inflict damage on Steel, Ground and Rock-types, just as Sandstorm doesn't. It also ends when one send in a Pokémon with auto-weather again, even if that Poké is Hippowdon or Tyranitar. Then the rain stops, and you get a normal sandstorm/hail.

When it happened to me, I also Pursuited a Starmie with my Tyranitar, backing up the claim that Pursuit-Tar is the one that causes it, but I have used that many times without this weird rain occurring, which led me to believe that it was a combination of my Tyranitar inflicting Sandstorm as well as his Hippowdon, which "confused" the game in some way.

Would be cool if someone would try to somehow "test" this, and then carry some Swift Swimmers to figure the effect of the rain, but also try to find the cause. Can be a bit tough, tho, but as everyone that got this weather seems to have had a Tyranitar with Pursuit, that's a good start.. :p
 
i don't think this should be implemented into shoddy as if there's a glitch/weird thing in shoddy we fix it however if there's something weird or glitch in wifi we can't fix that so don't put it in shoddy

who knows maybe it will be fixed before thw U.S/Europe versions come out
 
I don't think you should be theorymoning how a glitch would benefit the game, as most would frown upon someone exposing it to gain an upperhand, similar with Torment and Fly on Shoddy.
Click to expand...

not comparable, the fly and torment glitches are only on shoddy, which is why they are frowned upon / banned. This "glitch" has been proven to be true in-game and I feel should be added to shoddy if we are looking for the closest thing to real gameplay.
 
nyczxjay said:
Oh, I wasn't talking down to you. Sorry if you took it that way. I'm just restating all the known information on the glitch. But yea, whatever the case, sorry dude.

I don't think it should be implemented on Shoddy, at least not until the US version comes out. Who knows, maybe they fixed the glitch so that all the upcoming versions of Platinum (US, EUR, FRA, etc) won't have this annoying glitch.

And about the master/slave relationship... I know what you're talking about but what I've never really got a real answer to is whether or not the Hypnosis accuracy is set to 60 for D/P when it's battling with a Platinum cartridge. Do you know by any chance?
Click to expand...

There's been no recorded test result. Every time I ask about it I get told to stop wasting time. I'm not really sure why, nor do I know why they just suddenly implemented it on Shoddy when most players aren't even using Platinum. Strange.
 
KD24 said:
not comparable, the fly and torment glitches are only on shoddy, which is why they are frowned upon / banned. This "glitch" has been proven to be true in-game and I feel should be added to shoddy if we are looking for the closest thing to real gameplay.
Click to expand...

What if the Fly glitch had been in Platinum? Would you also be in favor of implementing that on Shoddy? I understand trying to play as close to the cartridge as possible, but I don't think that should apply to glitches because they were never intended to be in the game.
 
100kvolts said:
What if the Fly glitch had been in Platinum? Would you also be in favor of implementing that on Shoddy? I understand trying to play as close to the cartridge as possible, but I don't think that should apply to glitches because they were never intended to be in the game.
Click to expand...

Who cares about what was "intended?" For all we know, some undercover spy secretly coded this into the game with the sole intention that it became used in competitive play. The point is, it's in the game, and Smogon doesn't change the game's mechanics unless Nintendo does first. Intention is something we have no business discussing.
 
All Pokemon can get any combination of their egg moves thanks to a glitch in the early versions of D/P that allows Ditto to keep the moves it copied. This glitch was removed in the later versions of D/P, but you can breed the Pokemon in the early D/P game and trade it to the later versions of D/P. It appears that it wasn't "intended," but who cares? It's in the game...

...and yet, we've banned the egg move combinations that you shouldn't otherwise be able to get. We must care to SOME extent about what was intended or we probably wouldn't have banned them. As I understand it, it was because those combinations were illegal to obtain under normal circumstances that people were calling for them to be banned, not because they were overpowering. (I'm paraphrasing Obi here so it's possible that I misunderstood it.)



I don't see how we can allow this "killer rain" right now. Not only do I find it hard to believe that this was intended, but also it doesn't seem to make sense how KOing a fleeing Pokemon in the sand with Pursuit triggers it. Usually we can come up with explanations based on how the game is coded, but this makes no sense to me whatsoever.
 
KD24 said:
not comparable, the fly and torment glitches are only on shoddy, which is why they are frowned upon / banned. This "glitch" has been proven to be true in-game and I feel should be added to shoddy if we are looking for the closest thing to real gameplay.
Click to expand...
Well the thing is, this glitch can't be reliably replicated at will. It happens "here and there," but not every time.
 
KD24 said:
not comparable, the fly and torment glitches are only on shoddy, which is why they are frowned upon / banned. This "glitch" has been proven to be true in-game and I feel should be added to shoddy if we are looking for the closest thing to real gameplay.
Click to expand...

You realize this makes no sense what-so-ever, I'm confident that Gamefreak had no intention of creating a killer rain, If you believe that we should be as close to the game as possible than all pokemon she be allowed in standard play, absolutetly no sleep clause should be enforced, species clause is non existent; Get my point? I'll wrap it up here, no this shouldn't be implemented on Shoddy and any compitent person would agree. (I Think I spelled compitent wrong but whatever ^.^)

If anything we should wait until Platinum comes out in the US so we can disprove this, and KD if you think that should be implimenting this on Shoddy then we should get an early glitched D/P and start using Nasty Plot/Hypnosis Crobat, and since we wanna duplicate gameplay impliment it on Shoddy, IMARITE? Sarcasim,
 
Tucker said:
If you believe that we should be as close to the game as possible than all pokemon she be allowed in standard play, absolutetly no sleep clause should be enforced, species clause is non existent
Click to expand...
Nintendo has banned Pokemon, and used the Sleep/Species clauses well before Smogon has (and banning Pokemon isn't altering game mechanics in the first place...).

As for the "early glitched D/P," well yeah, obviously the difference is that Nintendo fixed that up in later versions... so I'm not sure why people are bringing it up; yes, "you can still reap its benefits by transferring Pokemon to Platinum" or whatever, but that's why the whole situation was quite arguable at the time, and is decidedly different from the one we're faced with right now.
 
Blame Game said:
Nintendo has banned Pokemon, and used the Sleep/Species clauses well before Smogon has (and banning Pokemon isn't altering game mechanics in the first place...). obviously the difference is that Nintendo fixed that up in later versions..
Click to expand...

So then shouldn't we wait for the English release before making our decision? Nintendo has only used the Sleep/Species clause in the Pokemon Stadium type games. It has never been used in one of the cartridge games. We are not playing as close to the cartridge as possible when we use a clause that doesn't exist in it.

Also the glitch happens every now and then whenever a Tyranitar uses pursuit. We have no idea as to what are the odds of it occurring. Even if we were to implement it, we wouldn't be able to do so properly without figuring that out.
 
<DougJustDoug> <RB-Drowzee> http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=50341
<DougJustDoug> <RB-Drowzee> do we really want to impliment killer rain?
<DougJustDoug> <RB-Drowzee> or just ignore it?
<DougJustDoug> <RB-Drowzee> http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=50341
<DougJustDoug> <RB-Drowzee> do we really want to impliment killer rain?
<DougJustDoug> <RB-Drowzee> or just ignore it?
<DougJustDoug> Whoops. Double-paste...
<DougJustDoug> Anyway -- RBG -- we ignore it.
<DougJustDoug> I would never in a million years duplicate the Acid rain glitch in Shoddy.
Click to expand...

While the glitch is interesting, the fact, that:
a) It won't be implemented on Shoddy
b) We have ignored other glitches before (see Ditto breeding Glitch)
c) There is no sound reasoning why this happens at all.
Means that discussion of this isn't really going to lead anywhere. If you are trying to figure out why it happens, that is something that the Research thread is for.
 
I'm reopening this thread because this is an important issue to discuss.

I say we have no choice but to implement this if we want to be playing Pokemon. If it's fixed in the English release of Platinum, then we remove it. However, we have already implemented changes from Japanese Platinum, so unless and until we have confirmation that it no longer exists in English Platinum or we remove all Platinum changes, we should attempt to accurately simulate the game.

I've explained this next part several times before, but apparently I'll have to explain it again because it bears explaining:

You can ban any move, Pokemon, or item you want. You cannot ban mechanics. The only way we can justify not adding this is if you ban whatever causes it. If the cause is Tyranitar using Pursuit on a Water-type Pokemon, then the only way to "ban" this glitch is to ban Pursuit on Tyranitar or ban Water-type Pokemon.

This is why we can disallow the "any Pokemon with Transform can use Sketch" glitch, because we are just banning moves. This is possible to do within the limits of the game. You have to go beyond the code of the game to disallow this glitch.

Sure, it may be fixed in English Platinum. But it also might not. If it is fixed, then we change Shoddybattle to simulate English Platinum. If it's not, we don't change it. This is the same reason we don't allow Arceus. It doesn't matter what we think or hope Nintendo will do; what matters is what they actually do.

We don't need sound reasoning why it happens. There is no sound reasoning why Flareon doesn't get Flare Blitz, or why Magnezone doesn't get Levitate, or why Ghost is weak to Ghost, yet Dark resists Dark. The only reason that matters is whether it exists in the game.

We banned Fly because that was an error in Shoddy's coding, not some flaw in the game. If it were in the game, we'd have to "properly" code this glitch into Shoddy's code. If we found Fly with the glitch to be too powerful, we ban Fly, we don't alter the game to make it cease to be broken.
 
We don't even know fully why it happens. As others have pointed out, it doesn't happen 100% of the time Tyranitar used Pursuit.

And it's not just Water-types; I've had it happen to me vs. a Luxray as well.
 
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