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I am intolerant of intolerance and so can you
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Nor did they explicitly call for their destruction then - they did the whole thing in terms of euphemism.
Hitler was the leader of the nazi's who these neo-nazi's worship now. "Just throwing that out".
Not really, though they are both awful.
The neo-nazi's are promoting the nazi's ideologies, which started out as "keep/get them the fuck out of my country", but ended up with "Kill them".
No, I meant "year".
And you are missing the entire point of this. Let me give you a quick history lesson:
In the early 1900s Adolf Hitler gathers some followers, scapegoating (mainly) the Jewish community for their losses in war and money. He then has parades and rallies to recruit even more people, and eventually became the most powerful and large party in germany.
On top if this, people "promoting" the ideologies of the nazi's is definately worse then saying it. Have you ever heard the saying "actions speak louder than words"?
If you think that what they are "saying" matters more then the fact that they are having parades and rallies, the 13 000 000+ people who died before this was proven wrong would disagree with you, to say the least.
"The Nazis scapegoated the German-Jewish community — and by extension, world Jewry — for all of Germany's ills."
That proves my point? Have you even read that? In any case thanks for further proving me correct...though im not sure if that was your intention (what was?).
I cannot tell if you are trolling or not but god damn
Actually, you are christian, are you not? In that case, I think your freedom of speech should be taken away. You are part of a group that has called for the destruction of others, and has been doing so for a far longer time than the nazis have.
Actually, you are christian, are you not? In that case, I think your freedom of speech should be taken away. You are part of a group that has called for the destruction of others, and has been doing so for a far longer time than the nazis have.
Yeah neo nazism isn't as much on the wholesale destruction of other races as they are excluding themselves from other races Heysup, since it's generally considered to be in bad taste to kill other races. It's kind of like the muslim movement here in Calgary- they all move to the NE and have GIANT families to try to breed the infidel out of Calgary; nothing technically wrong with it but it's still pretty terrible and bigotrous.
Uhhh it should be readily apparent that that is the case, it's called the holy war. Though there weren't that many people back then and the scale of the operation was smaller, so you have to scale down numbers. The intent was still there. That being said, how many battles in the history have been won or fought for the glory of god? Not to mention all the lives christians took FROM EACH OTHER in the protestant/catholic battles that have occured in the past. Do I even need to mention all the "heretics", "witches" and others that just needed to be 'out of the way'? Christianity has a RICH history of labelling those with differing thoughts as a negative and dispatching them as such.
Also, I can see now why you're so all up ons about nazis; you're Jewish. Let me ask you then: How many nazi's have you ever met in your life and how many of those have ever done anything harmful to you? That's the same damn thing as native americans being pissed off cause their great great grandfather got his ass kicked in a battle.
Uhhh it should be readily apparent that that is the case, it's called the holy war. Though there weren't that many people back then and the scale of the operation was smaller, so you have to scale down numbers. The intent was still there. That being said, how many battles in the history have been won or fought for the glory of god? Not to mention all the lives christians took FROM EACH OTHER in the protestant/catholic battles that have occured in the past. Do I even need to mention all the "heretics", "witches" and others that just needed to be 'out of the way'? Christianity has a RICH history of labelling those with differing thoughts as a negative and dispatching them as such.
Also, I can see now why you're so all up ons about nazis; you're Jewish. Let me ask you then: How many nazi's have you ever met in your life and how many of those have ever done anything harmful to you? That's the same damn thing as native americans being pissed off cause their great great grandfather got his ass kicked in a battle.
After they did that, they killed 13 000 000 people (if you dislike seeing this number i suggest you stop arguing against it.). It starts as isolation, but moves into extermination.
Firstly, Christians dont preach distruction any more, those were extremists. Nazism is not an "extremist" situation, its based around these ideals.
And you have the nerve to ask "How many nazi's have you ever met in your life and how many of those have ever done anything harmful to you?".
Well then, i have the nerve to answer you back. How many Nazi's have I met personally? I have met anti-semites, and they spat on me and called me a bunch of insults (and proceedingly, got their asses kicked, because we have the right to do that now), but that wasnt the big deal about this nazism thing.
If you want to know what nazis did to me, then here is the answer you are going to get: The Nazi's raped and mercilessly slaughtered my Grandparents' generation of Jews, they tried to take away my right to live. If you are about to say "thats not You", then I ask you this, if they had successfully killed and wiped out the Jewish people, would I be alive here today? No. They tried to KILL all Jews, which includes ME.
If an attempt to kill me and all of my family and friends, and not just mine, hundreds of millions of peoples family and friends, is not enough "Harm", what is?
The topic of First Nations people is also a very sad one too, but its no where near to the same extent and there for is irrelevant to this conversation.
Stop defending the ideologies of mass killing, it makes you seem like an insensative person (or monster).
@ Chris, please dont start your bullshit on this thread, you dont even know your facts. Im not going to respond to that post for obvious reasons.
Actually he only killed 6 million jews. He did manage to kill many more homosexuals, slavs, and other undesirables, though.
If you are a troll you are certainly making a lot of effort.
If you are a troll you are certainly making a lot of effort.
30 years war, War of the 3 Henry's, etc.
And these were against other Christians. Hell, I'm not sure if you're aware of how Catholics treated Protestants
The one accusing me of trolling should probably get his facts straight first.
They killed 13 000 000 people, "only" (be more careful how you use that word next time) 6 000 000 of wich were Jews (And i believe 3 000 000 of which were children. I was not wrong at all.
That is irrelevant on two counts, first and formost these people were not killed in the act of “War". I dont need to explain the second reason vbecause the first one already makes this irrelevant.
To start: Past holy wars have nothing to do with this subject. Freedom of speech is the main thing here.
Next, stop accusing people of trolling in a nitpicky, half-formed post. It seems awfully, for lack of a better word, hypocritical.
According to the wiki article, nazism uses the terms "displace" and "eliminate", which are admittedly pretty vague. Even still, if you are one of their "inferior races" and you see a parade of people marching down the street, calling for the "elimination" of all the jews, blacks, homosexuals,etc., would you not feel threatened? Which brings us back to the same debate: At what point should freedom of speech be permitted to infringe on the other rights?
For example, say you're in a bar, chillin' with some buddies, and somebody comes up to you with a whole gang of like-minded fellows and says he wants to "eliminate" all of you, would that not be illegal?
Next, stop accusing people of trolling in a nitpicky, half-formed post. It seems awfully, for lack of a better word, hypocritical.
According to the wiki article, nazism uses the terms "displace" and "eliminate", which are admittedly pretty vague. Even still, if you are one of their "inferior races" and you see a parade of people marching down the street, calling for the "elimination" of all the jews, blacks, homosexuals,etc., would you not feel threatened? Which brings us back to the same debate: At what point should freedom of speech be permitted to infringe on the other rights?
For example, say you're in a bar, chillin' with some buddies, and somebody comes up to you with a whole gang of like-minded fellows and says he wants to "eliminate" all of you, would that not be illegal?
No, it wouldn't be. You're not asking whether me and my buddies would kick the shit out of said like-minded fellows, you're asking if it's legal. In the USA, it is perfectly legal to do that. Whether or not that is harassment is depending on different circumstances but the fact remains that he can say whatever the fuck he wants, it's within his rights.
You are wrong, threatening someones life is completely illegal. Freedom of Speech can not be used to break other laws, thats not how it works.
Again, I dont care if it is legal in the USA to do that, as the only thing that would convince me of is a flawed system.
Yeah that basically says my opinion what you're talking about right now.
Also, how is it any different, nazis and christians in this context?
Both groups killed in the past but say they won't kill anymore. That is basically right from your mouth,
Yeah if a majority of a group supports destruction, they can't be called extremists those are called "normals". Back then, a majority of them DID support destruction of those that were different.
Contrast that to the nazis, where a small group of elites wanted to slaughter jews and homos but the vast majority of their supports didn't even know it was happening on those levels- nor did they support it if they did know.
Edit: what is the deal with religious people like Lexite, Heysup and Syberia coming in and derailing reasonable threads with an agenda that is only half related at best?
@ Bolded, What?
And please learn your facts before you post further, you are posting complete bullshit right now....
Or you can stop arguing, and admit defeat, its about time anyway I have proved you and the others who argued with me wrong every time they say something, just stop trying, seriously.
@ Morm: I know what you mean. This discussion is not being helped by biased religious opinions. It seems like every serious discussion thread always breaks down to "well, christians are wrong, too". I don't agree with christianity, but can we please just let it go?
Back on topic. I guess I should have been more specific. If someone calling for your elimination makes you feel threatened, less secure and afraid to leave your house, why should they be allowed to call for it on such a large scale? Personally, I have no problem with the neo-nazis saying whatever they want, until it starts to cause distress to the targeted people (which it's obviously doing).
Back on topic. I guess I should have been more specific. If someone calling for your elimination makes you feel threatened, less secure and afraid to leave your house, why should they be allowed to call for it on such a large scale? Personally, I have no problem with the neo-nazis saying whatever they want, until it starts to cause distress to the targeted people (which it's obviously doing).
Listen here, child, just because you have a bone to pick with nazis because you are a jew doesn't give you a pass to be a cock to everyone around this topic. I have said nothing that was untrue. Demonstrate to me where I have been incorrect in anything I have said, specifically, or kindly shut your fucking mouth. Back up your claims that I am incorrect.
It's stuff like this that makes my rare trips back to this board very unpleasant. Learn to argue and not act like an arrogant douche nozzle.
You're still confusing Hitler's prerogatives with Nazism. And honestly, Neo-Nazism has little to do with actual Nazism; they are merely using that historical precedent as the platform for their white supremacy ideologies.
Your point is "the paraders were saying that they wanted to kill other races and nationalities, and therefore they are not covered by free speech." You have proven absolutely nothing. Actually, you've proven my point that Nazism was not out to kill Jews, merely blame them for all the German problems at the time.
You're right, you should really stop making them.
Crusades? Really, those don't even register on your radar?
Still wrong. No matter how many times you say this crap, you still have no idea what Nazism is.
Who has the right to beat up someone? That's called assault, champ.
Those atrocities are lamentable and terrible. The people responsible for those crimes have paid. Germany, as a country, has worked very hard to atone for the Holocaust. But there are people in this world who view the Holocaust as a good thing, and under the Constitution of the United States of America they are allowed to let their views be known wherever and whenever they want.
The Neo-Nazis in that parade weren't out that day to rape and kill. They were simply sharing their views in public within the guidelines of the law, and however amoral we may think those views are there's nothing you or I can do about it.
Really? The mindless near-eradication of an entire race isn't relevant?
Who is mass killing? Show me one instance in the last 40 years of white supremacists killing a whole bunch of people and I'll cede.
And you are putting words in all our mouths, it's annoying. We aren't defending Nazi ideology; we are defending the First Amendment of the Constitution, that's it and that's all.
You're right. Now prove to me that any of those paraders threatened someone's life and I'll stop arguing. You seem to be indicting these people based not on their explicit actions but on what they're thinking. And THAT, my friend, is ludicrous.
This just really left me speechless. You've got to be kidding me.
Heysup all you're proving is that you know what happened decades ago, neo-nazis don't run around burning jews houses down or murdering them. It's like the KKK in a way, only the radicals actually resort to violance, most just walk around telling everyone how superior they are. I don't mean to sound supportive of these people, but really, you got called some bad names, what happened to "sticks and stones"?
Umm... the Nazis believed that Jews had caused their problems. However, they decided to kill them because of it, meaning it wasn't just "merely", they WERE out to kill the Jews.
Ummm... Crusades did not kill 13,000,000. Also, the reasoning for the Crusades was flawed in the first place. Also, Stalin killed even more people than that.
At the time, Nazism was based on normal ideals. Nowdays, those ideals are considered extreme, just as some people(mind you, very few nowdays, the number will always shrink) in the South still hate Afreican Americans. So yah, both of you are right.
Still, Germany's people and government has more than fixed itself, atrocities should be forgiven since Germany no longer holds these feelings. Also, Germany is not a dictatorship any longer, so you can't blame the government (it was under the Emergency Clause that Hitler activated in order to rule that way).
Not 40 years but 50 years ago, we had Stalin.
Although not as big, you can also note the event in China, Tiananmen Square, was a massacre, though not as big, and not for a particular race, but a particualr idea.
We can't prevent them from displaying their idealologies. However, you could ask politely if they would stop. Renember, if they harm you, tada, you've got evidence.
The thing is, in this world, mass killings have gotten a very, very bad outlook, and so if a country commits them, there will be many countries at that countries throat.
Christians are not extremist nor Anti-Semitic. Actually, many Christians are quite friendly with Jews.
@Galahad Um... radical != resorting to violence. Technichally we have a radical new president, with new, different ideas. Radical means supporting change.
Ummm... Crusades did not kill 13,000,000. Also, the reasoning for the Crusades was flawed in the first place. Also, Stalin killed even more people than that.
At the time, Nazism was based on normal ideals. Nowdays, those ideals are considered extreme, just as some people(mind you, very few nowdays, the number will always shrink) in the South still hate Afreican Americans. So yah, both of you are right.
Still, Germany's people and government has more than fixed itself, atrocities should be forgiven since Germany no longer holds these feelings. Also, Germany is not a dictatorship any longer, so you can't blame the government (it was under the Emergency Clause that Hitler activated in order to rule that way).
Not 40 years but 50 years ago, we had Stalin.
Although not as big, you can also note the event in China, Tiananmen Square, was a massacre, though not as big, and not for a particular race, but a particualr idea.
We can't prevent them from displaying their idealologies. However, you could ask politely if they would stop. Renember, if they harm you, tada, you've got evidence.
The thing is, in this world, mass killings have gotten a very, very bad outlook, and so if a country commits them, there will be many countries at that countries throat.
Christians are not extremist nor Anti-Semitic. Actually, many Christians are quite friendly with Jews.
@Galahad Um... radical != resorting to violence. Technichally we have a radical new president, with new, different ideas. Radical means supporting change.
Because blackmail is fun.
Where do you live that they allow that?
In all fairness, it should be said that the event happened in Canada; therefore quoting the constitution of America really doesn't mean anything.
That said, the Charter of Rights and Freedoms specifically states:
By that definition, neither side was breaking the law simply by having their voice heard. Neo-Nazis or not, they had every right to do what they were doing (until the brawling broke out).
And wasn't this thread locked a minute ago?
I think it's important that Nazi representation still parades around every once and awhile because it reminds us of what happens when we let our arrogance and ignorance get the best of us. We could learn a lesson from that, therefore I think maybe we should be able to compromise with the fact that they want, even if this is not their goal, to present themselves. If others want to protest their parade, they should also be able to but not to the extent that they snuff it out completely, for this would be an instance of "I'm good, you suck" that starts this shit.
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