CAP 8 CAP 8 - Part 1 - Concept Poll 3

Which concept should be used for CAP8?

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cyberzero

is a CAP Contributor Alumnus
The final Concept Poll for CAP8 leaves us with two final candidates:
zarator said:
Name: Kingdra in the Snow

General Description: A pokémon with good but not excellent sweeping potential which, under Hail conditions, can become definitely a threatening attacking force.

Justification: Let's face it. The only viable way to run hail in OU is through stall. Things like Glaceon, Syclant, Weavile and so on, can't give to said teams the sweeping edge. They are quite unviable in OU (Glaceon), better off sweeping in a non-Hail team which can support them better (Syclant), or do not benefit from hail at all for sweeping purposes aside from breaking Focus Sashes(Weavile).

While a single Pokémon can't all of a sudden completely change a strategy, we all know that Rain Offense would not be all that threatening without Kingdra in the equation (heck, whenever you see a Rain Dance setup you can almost bet that there's a Kingdra waiting in the wings!).

So, I'd say that it would have a positive effect on the metagame. It would give Hail a chance to stray a bit from stall by putting it on the offensive, and could give to a low-used weather effect a tool to shine a bit in the OU environment.

Explanation: Of course, Hail itself help little in the way of offense, aside from the damage itself and Blizzard accuracy boost. So, This Pokémon will need:
1) A proper typing. Ice/(Rock resistant type) is the most probable, but going for something non-Ice is a possibility.
2) A good ability. Probably a custom ability, since the current Hail-related abilities do not help sweeping directly. This ability would also nullify Hail damage in case CAP8 does not turn to be an Ice Pokémon (like Cacturne's case)
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Elevator Music said:
Name: Neglected Ability

Description: This pokemon will have an ability [or two] that is currently undervalued (but possibly very helpful) in the metagame but isn't used because the other pokemon with this ability don't have the stats or movepool to make it work.

Justification: This is probably one of the best ways to go about learning about the metagame. Seeing why certain abilities don't see much play and what we can do to make them more used is an easy way to learn about the metagame. There is also the possibility that this pokemon will have a beneficial effect on the metagame and/or will create a new niche in the metagame (or take the niche of an old pokemon that didn't see much play).

Explanation: There are plenty of abilities that we can base a concept around that don't see much play. I'm thinking things like Shield Dust (we all know how much I want a good pokemon to abuse this!), Shed Skin (though Rev has this covered imo), Simple, hell even things such as Solar Power or Forewarn. It would be silly of me to try and list out all the abilities we could use for this.

I like this concept because it doesn't restrict typing or stats or whatever. There are so many possible directions this could go in we aren't narrowing too much down, but at the same time I feel it provides just enough direction to keep the pokemon on track.
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Clicky poll, discussion is encouraged!
 
I like both abilities here. I'd like to see some manifestation of both done eventually, but it's Neglected Ability's time to shine.
 
Now, you have 2 choices.

You can vote EM’s Neglected Ability concept. The Concept Assessment will be a huge mess, even bigger than the concept submission thread. People will start firing off all their favorite abilities, like in EVO failed project, until someone catch the right spark and all the community start bandwagoning. The typing part, which comes before the choice of the ability, could screw it even more.

However, you can also vote Zarator’s Kingdra in the Snow. The idea is clear and defined, yet open to many possible solutions. If you would like a CAP which could give your Hail team a little twist or you would like a nice sweeper for your offensive teams and a reliable answer to Hail stallers, Tyranitar, Scizor and maybe something else, Snowdra is the way to go.

If you want a nebulous project, cluttered with bandwagoning, second thoughts and fanboysm, vote for Neglected Ability. If you want a smooth process and a versatile product like many CAPs have been in the past, vote for Kingdra in the Snow.
 
I voted neglected ability because it leaves a lot of freedom for this CAP, and though many CAPs have rare abilities, none are really centered around them, except arghonaut.
@zarator: Revnekah uses shed skin extensively in its rest sets, but it was not made to abuse its ability.
 
Kingrda in the Snow. Practically all of the current CAPs could be said to have "Neglected Abilities," while only one, that hasn't been completely successful (at first Syclant was too much, but now it's a bit mediocre), could be connected to the concept of being a Hail-sweeper. As a result, we've already learned quite enough about neglected abilities, while there is a bit more to a learn about making an effective Hail-sweeper. Therefore, Kingdra in the Snow seems to be the more logical choice to make, IMO.
 
zarator said:
Now, you have 2 choices.

You can vote EM’s Neglected Ability concept. The Concept Assessment will be a huge mess, even bigger than the concept submission thread. People will start firing off all their favorite abilities, like in EVO failed project, until someone catch the right spark and all the community start bandwagoning. The typing part, which comes before the choice of the ability, could screw it even more.
Click to expand...

And then the mods step in and clean up said mess first. If people don't back posts up with solid reasoning, I can guarantee the mods will delete it.
However, you can also vote Zarator’s Kingdra in the Snow. The idea is clear and defined, yet open to many possible solutions. If you would like a CAP which could give your Hail team a little twist or you would like a nice sweeper for your offensive teams and a reliable answer to Hail stallers, Tyranitar, Scizor and maybe something else, Snowdra is the way to go.
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Because hail stallers are ruining the metagame, along with Tyranitar and Scizor. I'd like to point your attention to CAP6, Arghonaut, who is the best CAP at the moment and completely shuts down both of them with little effort.

Anyway my vote is quite obvious, so please vote for whichever you think will come out with a better result as a whole for the metagame.
 
I'm not going to repeat what I've already said.

This Post is a load of the reason why I will not back Neglected ability. We've done this shit. Move on, folks.

Kingdra in the Snow At least that doesn't rehash what we've already been doing for the majority of the history of the CAP project.
 
I must agree with zarator and Naxte. Kingdra in the Snow not only has a clear-cut goal for the process, it introduces a new niche in the metagame. Ice types are underused in the current metagame and this would allow us to see the effect of one new sweeper.
A neglected ability on the other hand would be similar to the goals of the EVO project - taking a niche from the lower tiers and emulating it to fit in the OU metagame. A neglected ability would not be used in OU, meaning that an ability from the lower tiers would be used in OU, but this has much more freedom with typing and stats.
I just feel that the more organized option is the way to go, but of course this is all up to opinion and what you want out of your CAP.
 
Eh, Neglected Ability may not be the easiest to build on, but it sure as hell beats Snowdra. And please try to pretend that you don't have some preconcieved picture of how it will turn out.
 
Magmortified said:
I'm not going to repeat what I've already said.

This Post is a load of the reason why I will not back Neglected ability. We've done this shit. Move on, folks.

Kingdra in the Snow At least that doesn't rehash what we've already been doing for the majority of the history of the CAP project.
Click to expand...

Those abilities are all usable. They contain no hindrances whatsoever. I would assume if we were going to use a 'neglected ability', it would be an ability that needs a bit of work. Dust Shield and Magic Guard are all nice, but we know they are going to be good (I'd recommend Magic Guard for Kingdra of the snow). But by neglected ability I had assumed there was a reason the ability was neglected. ie: It's not great.

Options would include Normalize, Reckless, Hustle, Rough Skin... the list goes on. The CAP's we have done have used good abilities that are not availiable on common pokemon. In my mind, neglected ability highlights that the ability is bad, if not terrible.
 
To be fair o the kingdra of the snow post I think its putting a bad taste in peoples mouths due to the fact that they feel like theres not room for creativity. Kingdra of the snow just means it can set up and sweep in the snow. Not just an Ice Kingdra.
 
billymills said:
Those abilities are all usable. They contain no hindrances whatsoever. I would assume if we were going to use a 'neglected ability', it would be an ability that needs a bit of work. Dust Shield and Magic Guard are all nice, but we know they are going to be good (I'd recommend Magic Guard for Kingdra of the snow). But by neglected ability I had assumed there was a reason the ability was neglected. ie: It's not great.

Options would include Normalize, Reckless, Hustle, Rough Skin... the list goes on. The CAP's we have done have used good abilities that are not availiable on common pokemon. In my mind, neglected ability highlights that the ability is bad, if not terrible.
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Um, what? EM's concept mentions nothing about the abilities being hindrances to the Pokemon; to the contrary, on the mention of the things like "but possibly very helpful" and "things like Shield Dust/Solar Power" in the concept. The concept is based around giving an underused ability that's good, but simply not on any good Pokemon, some time to shine, not creating a Pokemon with a sucky ability and having it make up for it through other factors. You may want the concept to go down that route, but that's not what the concept actually is, at least not with the way EM submitted it.
 
billymills said:
But by neglected ability I had assumed there was a reason the ability was neglected. ie: It's not great.
Click to expand...

EM's concept description specifically points out an ability underused because the Pokemon it is attached to is godawful. I don't see how anybody could misrepresent that.

Options would include Normalize, Reckless, Hustle, Rough Skin... the list goes on. The CAP's we have done have used good abilities that are not availiable on common pokemon. In my mind, neglected ability highlights that the ability is bad, if not terrible.
Click to expand...

In my mind - and EM's description, which is essentially the formal definition behind the concept - it's an ability that doesn't see any use because it's on a Pokemon that's bad in and of itself. EM's justification actually contradicts that. We know why certain abilities don't see much play - they're attached to Pokemon that aren't good enough to see much play. We know what'd make any ability - good or not - see more play: make a good Pokemon!

Please.
 
I'm sad that pivot point did not make it but I guess it was overshadowed by neglected ability, which is indeed an interesting concept.
 
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