I don't think that it would necessarily get rid of all stall, but it might change it around a little, making it necessary for stall teams to have a CAP8 counter in their ranks, which, with the way thing are going, doesn't seem like it will be too hard as most team have at least one dragon counter anyways. And should Bug win CAP8 will be taking quite a bit of damage just to come in and remove SR so it'll most likely not be vote on (Scrappy).
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CAP 8 CAP 8 - Concept Assessment
- Thread starter cyberzero
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I don't think that it would necessarily get rid of all stall, but it might change it around a little, making it necessary for stall teams to have a CAP8 counter in their ranks, which, with the way thing are going, doesn't seem like it will be too hard as most team have at least one dragon counter anyways. And should Bug win CAP8 will be taking quite a bit of damage just to come in and remove SR so it'll most likely not be vote on (Scrappy).
Why is everybody voting Dragon? CaP is all about exploring niches within the metagame. Now, as a Dragon type, this CaP would have automatic guaranteed access to Draco Meteor and Outrage, as all the precedents in the game, no exceptions, indicate. Now, assuming it doesn't have crap attacking stats, it WILL use those, because they are both powerful moves that are almost totally un-resisted. If it does use them, it just becomes a Dragon type sweeper, something which the metagame is already saturated with, so that option is a no. In order for it not to be a sweeper with those kinds of moves, we will have to nerf it's attacking stats to hell, making it almost bound to be a wall, and Elec/Dragon is a shitty type for walling, possessing weaknesses to Ground, Ice, and Dragon, the three types a wall wants to be weak to the least! There is absolutely no future in Electric/Dragon.
My two cents. Feel free to ignore.
My two cents. Feel free to ignore.
Well thats what happens when it's all about democracy. I, however, like the typing. It's a solid tanking type with good resists on what counts. Either way what CAP8 is really about is the ability, so pretty much we are just trying to choose the most versital types that we can think of. Dragon is a versital typing dishing out unresisted hits all over the place. Electric/ Dragon/ Ice/ is a great attacking combo.
We haven't explored a Dragon niche yet, we have explored a Water and a Bug niche.
Yeah, but look at Arghonaut's movepool and how Bulk Up, Recover, and Cross Chop are separated. We could just as easily do something like that here.
Almost totally unresisted? Try "walled by every Steel-type and you're locked into Outrage". Also, how do you know it won't be a tank of sorts, with mid-range attacking stats on one side and low range on the other?
I've seen support Latias use Draco Meteor, quite far from a sweeper. On another note, sweeping with Draco Meteor is pretty much impossible unless the opponent's team is SEVERELY weakened, in which case a strong gust of wind would win you the game.
How is Electric/Dragon "shitty" for walling? You get useful resistances to Flying, Steel, Electric (4x), Fire, Grass, and Water. Comparing that to three 2x weaknesses, I think that's a good trade-off. There are walls with significantly worse typing out there (See: Steel/Rock types.) This isn't even comparing it with Bug, which trades the good resists of Dragon for a Fighting resist, Grass resist, and neutrality to Flying and Ground. It's weak to both Fire and Rock, however that means it takes 25% on switching in. Overall I think Dragon is the best typing right now, and I can see a clear and bright future for it.
As of right now it's a tie between Electric/Dragon and Electric/Bug. Those are the two most popular choices as they both come with some pretty handy resistances, while not being too poor on the offensive side. Electric/Dragon is more seen as an offensive threat, as it's weak to Ice-, Ground-, and Dragon-type moves, something very easy to find in the CAP server. Electric/Bug on the other hand comes with SR weakness, a Fighting- and Ground-type resistance, which cancels out Electric's Ground-type weakness. Really it's a choice of: E/D having much better offensive abilities, and three extremely common weaknesses and E/B having SR weakness, but less common weaknesses and decent attack prowess.
Not to mention that with an Electric Typing this will probably be more on the Special end of the spectrum, and even with access to Draco Meteor there will probably be better options. Personally I see more and more Dragon Pulse Latias everyday, and I almost never see Latias used as a sweeper or any sorts. And as for Outrage, well who wants to be locked into the same attack for 2-3 turns? Half of the time I use Outrage I wind up regretting it. I certainly wouldn't start using Outrage if CAP8 has some good support moves.
Edit: This post was meant to go under Tennisace's just to keep people from getting to confused.
Edit: This post was meant to go under Tennisace's just to keep people from getting to confused.
@ Deucalion2:
There is, however, a precedent for a poke (Regigias) not getting moves that every single poke (that can learn TMs) had gotten previously, because Gamefreak thought they would overpower him. So, if we think outrage or draco meteor will overpower CAP8, we don't neccessarily have to give it to him.
There is, however, a precedent for a poke (Regigias) not getting moves that every single poke (that can learn TMs) had gotten previously, because Gamefreak thought they would overpower him. So, if we think outrage or draco meteor will overpower CAP8, we don't neccessarily have to give it to him.
Why are these not allowed exactly, I guess porygonz is an answer for Adaptibility but that sits at 50 on the usage stats.
Based on some of the allowed list Marvel Scale and Leaf Guard should probably be options.
@latinoheat: The reason for Scrappy is because people think it will ruin Stall utterly
i don't see Damp being any less useless then Skill link Pin Missle or Battle Armor
Well Skill Link would be really helpful in breaking subs, and there are some very nice recoil moves out there (Volt Tackle), but if you really wanted to stop an exploder you would be better off switching in a ghost type anyways, since that way you're opponent would still lose a pokemon.
Thought Scrappy would be Unallowed soon. After thinking and thinking, I think having a Scrappy Spin would just hurt stall too much. Now, whether or not it'll be completely useless, I can't say... but there's a fair bunch who utilize stall in the metagame... and it gets really messed up when the residual damage is spun away 100% of the time.
I agree with cyberzero's judgment on abilities like Damp, etc. Though it IS nice to prevent suicide bombing via Explosion, that's really all it's worth. Ghosts can automatically block said Explosions and they have an ability that's worth using (usually).
And for Magma Armor... freezing just doesn't happen often enough to warrant its use (helpful, but relatively worthless).
I agree with cyberzero's judgment on abilities like Damp, etc. Though it IS nice to prevent suicide bombing via Explosion, that's really all it's worth. Ghosts can automatically block said Explosions and they have an ability that's worth using (usually).
And for Magma Armor... freezing just doesn't happen often enough to warrant its use (helpful, but relatively worthless).
Not to mention if you send in a ghost type to counter Explosion the other pokemon still faint, was tactically it's more useful
I don't think guaranteeing one attack it may not even get, is big enough a reason to give it an ability. Just got the one attack? It makes sense if it blocks out your STAB, but it's really not THAT important otherwise.
And if we get an Electric/Bug... Well, what Electric/Bug type will switch into Stealth Rock to rapid spin it? While taking a 25% hit in the process?
Electric/Dragon can do it nicer, but why take a Pokemon like that and make it a Rapid Spinner?
So, it's like a Glass Cannon..?
....In a way?
I just noticed... Shell Armor is there, but Battle Armor isn't.
Both have the same effects; blocking Criticals...
It should be there as well.
If you're going to make that argument, then neither should be there.
Battle Armor is already on Pyroak, which uses it quite well.
Regarding Damp, surely, if we ended up with a tank/wall of sorts (no matter what typing), Damp would be a great asset in that it stops Heatran or Bronzong coming in and Exploding on it?
Also, with good prediction, you could come in on an Exploding Heatran, locked into Explosion by Scarf, and then have it bolster its defences via Calm Mind while they switch.
Also, with good prediction, you could come in on an Exploding Heatran, locked into Explosion by Scarf, and then have it bolster its defences via Calm Mind while they switch.
We don't HAVE to give it outrage OR draco meteor, no-one said that those "rules" couldn't be broken :/
and who said we can't give it shitty/mediocre attacking stats?
Eh, I'd personally rather just switch in a Ghost than a Pokemon with Damp, since they'll still be KO'd if the Explode on a Ghost, while the same isn't true against a Damp Pokemon. It just doesn't seem to be worth it to me.
We have Salamence, Flygon, Latias, AND Kingdra in OU. Why would you want to give a Dragon type shitty attack stats? What will it do after that? Dragon is weak to Ground/Ice/Dragon, something no walls want to be weak to. I'm not saying that Bug is any better defensively, but Bug actually gets a couple of moves that don't focus on OHKO'ing everything but Steel type Pokemon.
I'm really afraid that Electric + Dragon is just going to end up as another sweeper, set-up or otherwise.
What I would like to see for a Elec/Dragon is an bulky offensive pokemon with both support moves (Don't have to be dragon type) and good attack skills.
I'd rather this turn into a tank, which, even with subpar defensive typing is possible with good stats. I mean rhyperior does a pretty good job, even those it can't take special moves worth a damn and is as slower than a snail on shrooms. If we give it decent all around stat with outclassing any one stat, depending on the ability it could be a very niche boosting tank. Dragon type Pokemon can get nearly any attacking type, and have a plethora of good support moves. I'm looking to back Cloud Nine and Shield Dust because I believe they are both good tanking abilities. Cloud Nine allowing CAP8 to have leltovers recovery in a sandstorm, plus the ability to ignore tyranitar's SpDef boost. And what about those Rain Dance teams that use Thunder over T-Bolt? He's an even better switch in both resisting 4x and voiding the 100% accuracy granted by rain. Not to mention a decent kindra counter thanks to the fact that he will lower it's speed and have access to dragon moves (This is of course all assume dragon wins. If bug wins I'll rethink all of this). Shield Dust gets rid of any anying flinch hax pokemon like togekiss and jirachi, both of whom wouldn't dare stay in if they didn't think they could hold you at bay with hax. Not to mention it gets rid of those rare, but annoying freezes and burns.
I really think Thick Fat could work. And actually, it aids either 2ndary typing, Electric + Bug loses its Fire weakness, and gains an Ice resistance, while Electric + Dragon loses its Ice weakness and improves its Fire resistance to 4x.
Isn't it about time we have a OU Bug type that isn't weak to Heatran?
And being Bug means Earth Power isn't Super effective either.
Thick Fat for fairness, viability, and lack of usage in todays OU metagame. (Snorlax just can't make great use of it all by itself).
Isn't it about time we have a OU Bug type that isn't weak to Heatran?
And being Bug means Earth Power isn't Super effective either.
Thick Fat for fairness, viability, and lack of usage in todays OU metagame. (Snorlax just can't make great use of it all by itself).
To be quite frank, the majority of the world doesn't care what you would rather turn this into. There is a time and place for that. This is not the time nor the place, especially after I told you that you're walking on a thin line. Also:
As for Thick Fat, that argument is great, hhjj, I'll be adding it to Allowed immediately.cyberzero said:
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