Most Generation PRNG Help / Information

[Sephirona]

Yup~ Just waiting two seconds or more after getting to the continue screen made my delay go over 800-1000. It's written on a thread here, but to see what it meant, I spammed the A button at the Logo, and when I checked my seed afterwards, the delay was right around 610ish. :>

 

[mastermatt791]

i tried twice more and got 1127 as a value, and 602, 602 was okay but all the taps were like 1000+ and i just dont have that in me!

 

[mingot]

I'll go back to fiddling with figuring out how the crap you can find where a seed places you on the PRNG list, which I probably do not have all the resources to do, i.e. an actual document with the seeds in order would be tremendously helpful. If anyone has a helpful hint, post or PM me if you don't want lots of people clamoring about how we need a guide. It should be obvious what I'm trying to do as there's only one reason to want to know where seeds drop you on the PRNG list.

Edit2: Thanks Mingot for fixing the tab thing in the seed finder. Such a little annoyance, so much more convenient now. Let me know if you want any specific research done, I've got some dead time.

I'm not sure what you're trying to do here, to be honest.

But if you want all of the seeds (you should know how hexadecimal works) here is a general range for each digit or group of digits in the the 32 bit seed:

AB CD EFGH

AB = 0x0-0xFF (combo of month, date, minute, hours, seconds)
CD = 0x0-0x17 (hour)
EFGH = 0x0-0xFFFF (delay/year)

But really, EFGH = Year-2000+Delay so reasonable numbers are really quite limited.

Between 0x1F4 and 0x4B0

So number of combinations is ~ 256 * 24 * 650 = 3,993,600

So out of 4 billion, only about 4 million reasonable seeds.

i tried twice more and got 1127 as a value, and 602, 602 was okay but all the taps were like 1000+ and i just dont have that in me!

Uh. Not sure what you're doing, then. A nice decent pace should get you in the early-mid 600's. 1127 = You screwed around and wasted an extra 10 seconds lazily clicking.

 

[McBird]

As a person without action replay and without a million rare candies, I was only able to get my SID through diamond, thanks to some random shiny I found ages back

The fishing for lvl 75+ magikarp in the resort area works for Platinum, but where would you suggest looking in Diamond? The highest I can get is 50~53 north of the battle area, but it's not high enough to calculate an exact IV.

 

[Radnortuws]

That is actually helpful, I had noticed some of those trends but I'm glad now I didn't take the time to document them since you already knew them. Alas though, that's not exactly what I'm interested in right now...

I've got down finding a seed, and then using it to generate the PID/IVs of the pokemon from there. Tedious without a program, but doable. What I am attempting to figure out is how to locate that PID on the list of all PIDs, starting from a seed of 0 (similar to the frame listing for Emerald). Essentially, I'm looking for a way to predict where a seed will drop me in that PRNG list (or the list of PIDs in order with a starting seed of 0) so I can examine the PIDs after there. I'm sure there is a formula, or even just a document containing all PIDs in order, I just don't have it.

The only other thing that would be useful would be a way to find the last 16 bits of a seed working backwards from a pokemon's PID. Obviously I know the first 16 bits, but the last 16 remain a mystery to me if I'm going backwards, unless there is a formula for that too. But anyways, I'm sure this stuff exists and I'm probably just being impatient, but it's irritating knowing most of what I need to know and knowing exactly what I don't know that I still need. Sigh.

Rant over. If any of that stuff exists though, it would be nice to be able to access it. That is all.

 

[oddsok]

Just a suggestion for the next RNG Reporter. When looking for IV spreads for eggs would it be possible to sort by or omit even/odd delays? I only ever get even delays and I always choose a spread and then realise that it is on an odd delay.

Thanks.

 

[Pokerealm]

Hey guys, I lost my internet connection for some reason and couldn't be online the last 5-6 days. I read the OP again and saw there's some more information on the legendary pokemon.

However, there are 18 new pages since my last visit, and it's quite a lot to read through all of them.

So, if there's anything else I missed, please PM me with any new information if there is any. (Like, a better way to get the delay/offset you want for example).

Thanks in advance.

EDIT: Something I found that might be useful but needs confirmation: It seems saving determines wheter you get odd or even delays.
I tested this more than 10 times, but I need more people to test this.

I did get odd and even delays without saving again, but when I get even delays, only 1 out of 10 are odd (just an average) and vica versa.

 

[Fear The Pika]

To bad I'm just breeding a shiny because I want it. I got a Bold nature with only 111 taps.=P

 

[Devii]

Is there a way to see what form wurmple will evolve into? XD Its a pain tapping a lot only to realize later it evolved into the one you didnt want xP

Oh yea, just bred 2 shinies to check if it really worked in Pearl and it did ^.^ Will this make Normal pokemon more rare than shinies now? XD

 

[LightningFusion]

Is there a way to see what form wurmple will evolve into? XD Its a pain tapping a lot only to realize later it evolved into the one you didnt want xP

Oh yea, just bred 2 shinies to check if it really worked in Pearl and it did ^.^ Will this make Normal pokemon more rare than shinies now? XD

Yes there is a way based on the PID I believe. Do some exploring on this site or others to find out. It might be in the PID guide.

 

[mingot]

As a person without action replay and without a million rare candies, I was only able to get my SID through diamond, thanks to some random shiny I found ages back

The fishing for lvl 75+ magikarp in the resort area works for Platinum, but where would you suggest looking in Diamond? The highest I can get is 50~53 north of the battle area, but it's not high enough to calculate an exact IV.

With two or three rare candies you should be able to get a pretty good indication of the IVs from MetalKid. After that you really need to enter all of the combinations until you find a good one. RNG Reporter will have a simple IV checker to help with this at some point in the future.

That is actually helpful, I had noticed some of those trends but I'm glad now I didn't take the time to document them since you already knew them. Alas though, that's not exactly what I'm interested in right now...

Me too, since that's all in the OP :)

I've got down finding a seed, and then using it to generate the PID/IVs of the pokemon from there. Tedious without a program, but doable. What I am attempting to figure out is how to locate that PID on the list of all PIDs, starting from a seed of 0 (similar to the frame listing for Emerald). Essentially, I'm looking for a way to predict where a seed will drop me in that PRNG list (or the list of PIDs in order with a starting seed of 0) so I can examine the PIDs after there. I'm sure there is a formula, or even just a document containing all PIDs in order, I just don't have it.

You won't find a file with all of the PIDs in order because there are 2^32 of them in the list. Thats over 4 billion. What you really want to do is check out X-Acts PID generation article. It explains the (simple) math behind taking a seed and getting the next RNG result. You can do these by hand.

The only other thing that would be useful would be a way to find the last 16 bits of a seed working backwards from a pokemon's PID. Obviously I know the first 16 bits, but the last 16 remain a mystery to me if I'm going backwards, unless there is a formula for that too. But anyways, I'm sure this stuff exists and I'm probably just being impatient, but it's irritating knowing most of what I need to know and knowing exactly what I don't know that I still need. Sigh.

Well, from just a PID this will be fairly hard (on paper). The RNG actually discards 16 bits of its 32 bit output and is called twice to generate the 32 bit PID.

As I don't think it's documented in X-Acts article here is how to run the RNG in reverse:

seed = (0xeeb9eb65 * seed + 0xa3561a1) % 0xFFFFFFFF;

I actually use this to find the initial seed from the IVs and nature of a pokemon.

I go through all 64k (well really, I have to go through 128k as there is a single unused bit in the IVs) and build the first part of the number myself for the 2nd part of the IVs. I feed all 128k of these values to a reverse RNG and look for a result that matches the first half of the IVs. If it matches it is considered a good canidate and then take two more reverse RNG calls and build pids for each of these canidates. The PID with the matching nature wins. This is basically a re-implimentation of X-Acts IV's to PID application.

One I have this I keep feeding reverse RNG results through a test to see if any of them look like good canidates for the initial seed.

Once you have the PID/Seed it sounds like you want to work forward. This is basically what RNG reporter does when you "Generate" after getting a good initial seed.

If any of this doesn't make sense or you need more formula's let me know, I can probably either point you to something that is already out there or explain it.

Oh, and this has a breakdown of IVs to PID.

Just a suggestion for the next RNG Reporter. When looking for IV spreads for eggs would it be possible to sort by or omit even/odd delays? I only ever get even delays and I always choose a spread and then realise that it is on an odd delay.

Adding this to the TODO list.

To bad I'm just breeding a shiny because I want it. I got a Bold nature with only 111 taps.=P

...

Is there a way to see what form wurmple will evolve into? XD Its a pain tapping a lot only to realize later it evolved into the one you didnt want xP

Wurmple formula is here:

http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=45230

You will definitely want to read the first part of the PID guide to understand the terminology.

 

[Razorman679]

Well, I just gave the RNG a shot but to no avail. The only possible reason I can see is that I have my Secret ID(s) wrong even though I tried calculating it twice (I got three results, but two were method 1). I was wondering if anyone can help me along those lines.

Unless there's a strict time limit between catching a pokemon, rare candying for the IVs, depositing it and throwing two pokemon in the daycare for a shiny egg, I can't see how anything else could be wrong.

 

[bearsfan092]

Hey, everyone. I'm here to bother you guys again with a few questions:
1. For the seconds data needed during calibration, do I get that from the initial seed found by the captured pokemon? I keep getting 9-10 seconds this way. Or do I get the seconds data from how long it takes to start up the game? This is closer to about 15 seconds I believe.

2. The reason I bring up this question is because I don't land anywhere close to what the time finder says. Just an example for procedural purposes. Not needed for this seed in particular:

Date: 4/4/09
Time: 23:03:10 (the 10 is generated from initial seeds)
Offset 3
Delay:623

The problem is, I can't hit that exact second by loading the game at 23:00. I keep getting the egg 5+ seconds late (According to my external clock, I'm getting it around 23:15- 23:17).

3. Has anyone been able to successfully do this with AR? I find it takes 6 seconds to go from the AR white screen to when it turns black and loads the game. I was wondering if this accounts for the funky timing.

4. Finally, do I need to go through the calibration phase every time I do a new abuse?

Thanks for helping,
bearsfan092

 

[mingot]

Well, I just gave the RNG a shot but to no avail. The only possible reason I can see is that I have my Secret ID(s) wrong even though I tried calculating it twice (I got three results, but two were method 1). I was wondering if anyone can help me along those lines.

Unless there's a strict time limit between catching a pokemon, rare candying for the IVs, depositing it and throwing two pokemon in the daycare for a shiny egg, I can't see how anything else could be wrong.

Have you tested with BOTH method 1 secret ID's that you found/calculated?

Was the shiny a captured, and NOT chained or bred shiny?

Hey, everyone. I'm here to bother you guys again with a few questions:
1. For the seconds data needed during calibration, do I get that from the initial seed (correct answer) found by the captured pokemon? I keep getting 9-10 seconds this way (which way?). Or do I get the seconds data from how long it takes to start up the game? This is closer to about 15 seconds I believe. The reason we don't keep track of this 15 seconds is that it is different for everyone, so is really of no use. Also, the game does not care how long it took you to reset, ONLY what the "seconds" were on your DS at the time you hit continue.

2. The reason I bring up this question is because I don't land anywhere close to what the time finder says. Just an example for procedural purposes. Not needed for this seed in particular:

Date: 4/4/09
Time: 23:03:10 (the 10 is generated from initial seeds)
Offset 3
Delay:623

The problem is, I can't hit that exact second by loading the game at 23:00. I keep getting the egg 5+ seconds late.

What DO you hit by loading the game at :00? Because THAT is where you should be looking for your spreads.

3. Has anyone been able to successfully do this with AR? I find it takes 6 seconds to go from the AR white screen to when it turns black and loads the game. I was wondering if this accounts for the funky timing.

Thanks for helping,
bearsfan092

 

[bearsfan092]

Ah there we go. It's from the time you hit continue, which makes a huge difference than from what I was doing. I guess that answers all my questions, because fixing problem 1 effectively solves problem 2 for me.

Mingot for ubers!
bearsfan092

 

[Totakeke]

Hey, everyone. I'm here to bother you guys again with a few questions:
1. For the seconds data needed during calibration, do I get that from the initial seed found by the captured pokemon? I keep getting 9-10 seconds this way. Or do I get the seconds data from how long it takes to start up the game? This is closer to about 15 seconds I believe.

2. The reason I bring up this question is because I don't land anywhere close to what the time finder says. Just an example for procedural purposes. Not needed for this seed in particular:

Date: 4/4/09
Time: 23:03:10 (the 10 is generated from initial seeds)
Offset 3
Delay:623

The problem is, I can't hit that exact second by loading the game at 23:00. I keep getting the egg 5+ seconds late (According to my external clock, I'm getting it around 23:15- 23:17).

3. Has anyone been able to successfully do this with AR? I find it takes 6 seconds to go from the AR white screen to when it turns black and loads the game. I was wondering if this accounts for the funky timing.

4. Finally, do I need to go through the calibration phase every time I do a new abuse?

Thanks for helping,
bearsfan092

1. You use the seed finder of the RNG reporter to get the delay and seconds, don't determine the seconds using your clock. The details of your seed is determined by the nature and the iv of the wild pokemon you caught. If your clocks are not sync'ed properly, then you might get 10 seconds in the seed finder, but usually the seconds if you reset at MM:00, to spamming and pressing A at continue screen, is around 15 seconds.

2. You're getting 10 seconds in the time finder because you inputted 10 seconds into the time finder, that's simply it. If you want 15 seconds, then input 15 seconds in the second box. Again, check if you have synchronized your external clock to the ds clock properly.

4. Your delays and seconds should be around the same range, but that always can change depending on how fast you spam A and how you well the clocks are synchronized. So the answer is most likely yes, you need to redo calibration, unless you're just that good at sycnhronizing clocks to the th of a second and spamming button presses at the same rate every time.

Edit: Meh, too slow. ;[]

 

[Razorman679]

Have you tested with BOTH method 1 secret ID's that you found/calculated?

Was the shiny a captured, and NOT chained or bred shiny?

Yes, I've tested both of them, they came from my own shiny Giratina. I did calculate with my shiny Rhyhorn at first and received no possibilities, so I caught on to that. I actually did try the method three just for kicks and it came up the same as one of my method ones.

I honestly can't think anything else is going wrong. I'm finding initial seeds, doing the app clicks and doing bike marathons waiting for eggs to come and hatch.

 

[Syberia]

Mingot, do you happen to have an older version of RNG Reporter sitting around? I'm trying to mess around in FR/LG again, but the current version does not do monster seed :(

 

[mingot]

Look at the link from the current version and replace the 410 with 401. All versions are still on site should anyone need them.

 

[WiinolikePS3]

I'm not getting the nature & shinyness I'm supposed to...

Both times I was supposed to get a Shiny (Jolly one time, Adamant another) and both times I got a non-shiny Bold.

I was breeding a Japanese Meowth and an American Aipom (So I used the DPPt International Breeding filter) and I've got my ID, Secret ID, IVs, Nature and CONTINUE Time all right. Once I get those done, I am double tapping the set amount of times, going to the coin toss app, then flipping the coin.

I then go to the daycare and put the two pokemon in, ride around the route above solaceon, occasionally coming back to pick up my egg, which hasn't been shiny yet.


I tried doing it for an option that required no poketch apps and it worked, though for some reason it isn't working with poketch taps, PERIOD. (Even one that required 13 happiness taps and 2 Coin Flips, so I KNOW it isn't because my counting is bad)

Any help would be greatly appreciated; I wasted several hours yesterday getting the wrong pokemon, and I hope to not do the same today... =/

 

[Pokerealm]

Hey guys, I lost my internet connection for some reason and couldn't be online the last 5-6 days. I read the OP again and saw there's some more information on the legendary pokemon.

However, there are 18 new pages since my last visit, and it's quite a lot to read through all of them.

So, if there's anything else I missed, please PM me with any new information if there is any. (Like, a better way to get the delay/offset you want for example).

Thanks in advance.

EDIT: Something I found that might be useful but needs confirmation: It seems saving determines wheter you get odd or even delays.
I tested this more than 10 times, but I need more people to test this.

I did get odd and even delays without saving again, but when I get even delays, only 1 out of 10 are odd (just an average) and vica versa.

Anyone?

 

[Sephirona]

I'm not getting the nature & shinyness I'm supposed to...

Both times I was supposed to get a Shiny (Jolly one time, Adamant another) and both times I got a non-shiny Bold.

I was breeding a Japanese Meowth and an American Aipom (So I used the DPPt International Breeding filter) and I've got my ID, Secret ID, IVs, Nature and CONTINUE Time all right. Once I get those done, I am double tapping the set amount of times, going to the coin toss app, then flipping the coin.

I then go to the daycare and put the two pokemon in, ride around the route above solaceon, occasionally coming back to pick up my egg, which hasn't been shiny yet.


I tried doing it for an option that required no poketch apps and it worked, though for some reason it isn't working with poketch taps, PERIOD. (Even one that required 13 happiness taps and 2 Coin Flips, so I KNOW it isn't because my counting is bad)

Any help would be greatly appreciated; I wasted several hours yesterday getting the wrong pokemon, and I hope to not do the same today... =/

Did you click the 'shinies only' box? D:

 

[WiinolikePS3]

Did you click the 'shinies only' box? D:

Yep, sure did... x.x

I just did it again, and I'm supposed to get a Shiny Quirky Aipom... and it's quirky, as the egg trick tells me. I'm riding around right now to hatch it to see if it's shiny... but if it works, the only thing I've changed is that I now have poketch app #12... would that have changed anything?

EDIT: yep, it sure worked! I now have my FIRST ever shiny on diamond! (Despite my 321 hour playtime D:)

I really think that you need to have all the poketch apps between 6 and 15... is that true?

 

[Clocks]

Yep, sure did... x.x
I really think that you need to have all the poketch apps between 6 and 15... is that true?

Nope. I'm missing app 11 and I've hatched about a dozen shiny eggs. All you need is app 6 and 15.

for some reason now everytime i try to find a seed it says the DATE and TIME are wrong but before it worked fine.
should i just keep trying?

Whenever I have that happen, it's usually because I've just overlooked doing something on the screen. For me, it's usually the nature. I'd guess it's probably something simple, but that's just because of my experiences with it.

 

[art-of-tennis]

Would someone be willing to try to explain the RNG abuse to me in a simplified manner? I really would like to do this, but it really confuses me too... if someone will and succeeds at doing so, I'm willing to promise them a copy of anything I get in the future from it that they want.