Most Generation PRNG Help / Information

[Wild Eep]

I can verify that getting an entry like "Defeated a male STARLY" in the journal will advance the RNG just like a caught entry will. This takes fewer Poke Balls, but you'll have to defeat about five or six Pokemon to get a defeated entry to appear in the Journal.

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Also, I think I'm going to start a short guide for abusing the RNG for Wonder Card events (prerequisite for understanding is proficiency in RNG abusing legendaries).

@mingot: If you wanted to adapt the RNG Reporter for Wonder Card abuse, an entry in the Method drop-down for Wonder Cards would pretty much be like "Breeding (DPPt)" except without the inherited IVs. Since the game goes to that other RNG to get the PID (including nature), it doesn't have to do the two calls for the PID in the normal RNG. End result is that the IVs look like Method 1 except two frames earlier (similar to breeding, and would explain why when I grabbed the gift immediately the IVs wouldn't show up in Method 1).

A time finder function tailored for Wonder Card Pokemon would also be especially useful (as searching Method 1 misses the first two frames of Wonder Card IVs). One last note - Sorting results be odd or even frame might not be a bad idea; getting even frames requires either Cresselia/Mesprit running around (one call at the beginning to establish location) or letting the NPCs do some advancing the RNG for you to switch you from odd to even (either way, even is slightly more annoying than odd).

 

[Syberia]

@mingot: If you wanted to adapt the RNG Reporter for Wonder Card abuse, an entry in the Method drop-down for Wonder Cards would pretty much be like "Breeding (DPPt)" except without the inherited IVs. Since the game goes to that other RNG to get the PID (including nature), it doesn't have to do the two calls for the PID in the normal RNG. End result is that the IVs look like Method 1 except two frames earlier (similar to breeding, and would explain why when I grabbed the gift immediately the IVs wouldn't show up in Method 1).

I was wondering why I kept getting frame 259 while I was going for my Deoxys, even when I swore I tapped the journal enough.

A couple times I got the "correct" frame using "incorrect" journal taps, I suppose that was due to NPCs I couldn't see taking up the extra 2 frames for me.

 

[ΩDonut]

I was wondering why I kept getting frame 259 while I was going for my Deoxys, even when I swore I tapped the journal enough.

A couple times I got the "correct" frame using "incorrect" journal taps, I suppose that was due to NPCs I couldn't see taking up the extra 2 frames for me.

Which Pokemart were you in? The ones in the Fight Area and Survival Area only have one moving NPC to worry about; they're easy to track. I just keep saving until I see the NPC is going to take a little while to move after the save.

Also, is there any word on manipulating the RNG for the PID of Wondercard Pokemon? I know the seed is taken from two separate locations in RAM, but I don't know their significance.

 

[Syberia]

I was in Sunnyshore because, at the time, I thought only the NPC in the Poke Mart controlled it, and the one there only rotates, instead of rotates and moves.

 

[mingot]

Maybe he wants to know the computer science-y explanation? Like how do you figure out what the initial seed was just from the current state of the RNG? I can understand if he's confused at how it might be possible.

Perhaps, but I don't think so. Either way, for anyone else interested here is the short story:

Once I find the initial seed I feed it to an implementation that runs the RNG in reverse (currently 1000 iterations) with this bit of code:

seed = (0xeeb9eb65 * seed + 0xa3561a1);

Seed is an unsigned 32 bit value.

Then I see if the seed looks good by breaking it apart and comparing it as such:

First 8 bits
I check each possiblity with seconds 0-59 looking for a match.

Second 8 Bits:
As I have forced the user to enter an hour I can discount any results that do not have the correct hour set.

Last 16 bits:
Check to see if it is > 600 + 2000 - year and < 3600 + 2000 - year

If it looks good it I present it to the user.

I can verify that getting an entry like "Defeated a male STARLY" in the journal will advance the RNG just like a caught entry will. This takes fewer Poke Balls, but you'll have to defeat about five or six Pokemon to get a defeated entry to appear in the Journal.

---

Also, I think I'm going to start a short guide for abusing the RNG for Wonder Card events (prerequisite for understanding is proficiency in RNG abusing legendaries).

@mingot: If you wanted to adapt the RNG Reporter for Wonder Card abuse, an entry in the Method drop-down for Wonder Cards would pretty much be like "Breeding (DPPt)" except without the inherited IVs. Since the game goes to that other RNG to get the PID (including nature), it doesn't have to do the two calls for the PID in the normal RNG. End result is that the IVs look like Method 1 except two frames earlier (similar to breeding, and would explain why when I grabbed the gift immediately the IVs wouldn't show up in Method 1).

A time finder function tailored for Wonder Card Pokemon would also be especially useful (as searching Method 1 misses the first two frames of Wonder Card IVs). One last note - Sorting results be odd or even frame might not be a bad idea; getting even frames requires either Cresselia/Mesprit running around (one call at the beginning to establish location) or letting the NPCs do some advancing the RNG for you to switch you from odd to even (either way, even is slightly more annoying than odd).

Yep, I was planning to do an IVs only method so the first two are not missed and the frame number is accurate, so expect it.

I am really not sure about spending the time to do a proper timefinder for this. This really seems like a situation where you document low frame instances of all of the major spreads (hidden power, special, physical, trick room) and just publish that. Sure, it will miss frames 1 and 2 if we just use the method 1 time finder for this, but I am just not sure how much time I want to spend on writing something that is a complete throwaway once a list is developed :/

I was wondering why I kept getting frame 259 while I was going for my Deoxys, even when I swore I tapped the journal enough.

A couple times I got the "correct" frame using "incorrect" journal taps, I suppose that was due to NPCs I couldn't see taking up the extra 2 frames for me.

Which Pokemart were you in? The ones in the Fight Area and Survival Area only have one moving NPC to worry about; they're easy to track. I just keep saving until I see the NPC is going to take a little while to move after the save.

Also, is there any word on manipulating the RNG for the PID of Wondercard Pokemon? I know the seed is taken from two separate locations in RAM, but I don't know their significance.

I was in Sunnyshore because, at the time, I thought only the NPC in the Poke Mart controlled it, and the one there only rotates, instead of rotates and moves.

One thing against the theory that the NPCs outside of buildings advance the RNG is that if you are inside of the mining museum and get fossils you will end up on frame 1 all of the time.

 

[Expert Evan]

I'll be looking forward to a wondercard write-up as I'll intend to be the dummy that tries to get it to work with an existing TRU shaymin in both my diamond and pearl games.

 

[Syberia]

One thing against the theory that the NPCs outside of buildings advance the RNG is that if you are inside of the mining museum and get fossils you will end up on frame 1 all of the time.

Maybe since the Mining Museum is its own location (you can save or hatch pokemon there, and it will say "Mining Museum," the game treats it as a different place and ignores all other NPCs. Pokemarts and Pokemon Centers are part of "xxxx city" when you save in them.

I am 100% certain that my offset advanced when the NPCs inside the pokemart did not move.

 

[LightningFusion]

Maybe since the Mining Museum is its own location (you can save or hatch pokemon there, and it will say "Mining Museum," the game treats it as a different place and ignores all other NPCs. Pokemarts and Pokemon Centers are part of "xxxx city" when you save in them.

I am 100% certain that my offset advanced when the NPCs inside the pokemart did not move.

I stand in sandgem with only the one guy moving up and down. I get him to save at the top of his path so his next move is always going down. Instead of having the journal popping up, I open the menu as fast as possible. I keep opening and closing it until I open the menu with him half way through walking to the square below him. Then I flip the journal 57 times for the frame 114 (the flawless one). I hit it every time. You just got to get the menu pop up before he finishes walking to the next square.

We were talking on IRC and for some reason it seems its starts at 0 for the frame, instead of 1.

 

[ΩDonut]

I'll be looking forward to a wondercard write-up as I'll intend to be the dummy that tries to get it to work with an existing TRU shaymin in both my diamond and pearl games.

It's basically the same as resetting for Method 1 Pokemon, except the PID is determined by a different RNG with a completely different seed. So until we figure out how to manipulate that other RNG, you basically keep trying to aim for the right IVs and hope you end up with the right nature. (EDIT: Oh, you also have to make one extra journal tap.)

Anyone who hasn't picked up their TRU Draggy or VGC shiny Milotic yet - here's your chance to get a flawless one easily, since they will always be Mild (Draggy) or Timid (Milotic).

 

[mingot]

I am 100% certain that my offset advanced when the NPCs inside the pokemart did not move.

I really don't know one way or the other, but just because an NPC does not move does not mean there was an RNG call. Quite sure one of the random actions is "do nothing".

We could probably enumerate the NPCs in a given down and find the one with the most and the one with the least and just wait 60 seconds before a pickup and see if the count is consistantly higher in the busier town.

EDIT: Regarding having the defeated entry in the journal -- I am adding a task for this one as I would really like to determine exactly how/when it happens.

 

[VileTung]

@All;

I would like to know if this is useful: http://platinum.x-treem.nl/csv.php
Otherwise I will take it offline, due the bandwidth.

What does the program?

It allows you to upload the CSV file from Wichu's program. Then it will be sorted by Nature, neutral natures will be deleted.
The IVs between:

• 23 - 25 are underlined
• 26 - 31 are bolded
• 0 (zero) is colored red.

And you can see the average.

 

[ΩDonut]

@All;

I would like to know if this is useful: http://platinum.x-treem.nl/csv.php
Otherwise I will take it offline, due the bandwidth.

What does the program?

It allows you to upload the CSV file from Wichu's program. Then it will be sorted by Nature, neutral natures will be deleted.
The IVs between:

• 23 - 25 are underlined
• 26 - 31 are bolded
• 0 (zero) is colored red.

And you can see the average.

I don't use it, mostly because the Filter feature in Excel (2007?) does this much more effectively. But I don't know how many other people have it, or don't know about it.

 

[Wild Eep]

How to Manipulate IVs of Wonder Card Pokémon

Quick Overview of Creation of Wonder Card Pokémon:

When you talk to the deliveryman in the Poké Mart, the PID (at least for variable-natured Wonder Card Pokémon) is determined from what is called the Alternate Random Number Generator (ARNG) (which, at the moment, we cannot control, but it seems to be time-based). The IVs are created from two consecutive calls of the normal RNG with which we are familiar (this, of course, we can and will control!). The end result is that we can get any IV spread that can be produced through Method 1 on any nature if the ARNG is cooperative.

What you need:

-a Wonder Card (of course)
-RNG Reporter
-proficiency in manipulating legendary Pokémon (I'm not going to discuss the basics here, and knowing how to manipulate legendaries will make learning Wonder Card manipulation easier)

What you do:

1. Find a target

The first step for any RNG abuse is to know what you want. The best way to do this is to either use the spreadsheets in the original post (combined and searchable here) or use the Time Finder set to Method 1. When searching for an IV spread, the nature attached is completely irrelevant (as the PID and IVs are not coupled for Wonder Card Pokémon like they are for Method 1), so just use whichever IV spread is the easiest to get. In general, odd frames are slightly easier to get than even frames (to be covered in a later section).

If you get a target frame from the aforementioned sources, add 2 to the frame number to convert it from Method 1 to Wonder Card IVs. (The reasoning behind this addition is that you need to make up for the two Method 1 normal RNG calls for the PID that don't happen with Wonder Card Pokémon.)

Some useful target seeds + Wonder Card frames and IV spreads (do not add 2 to these frame numbers):
0C0E02C2, Frame 88: 31/31/31/17/31/31
690302C3, Frame 43: 31/13/31/31/31/31
52140289, Frame 116: 31/31/31/31/31/31
2A0C029F, Frame 513: 31/30/30/31/31/31 (HP Ice 70)
5407027B, Frame 183: 31/14/31/30/31/30 (HP Fire 70)
601502BE, Frame 132: 31/22/31/30/31/30 (HP Fire 70) (lower frame, but it's even)
4C020286, Frame 7: 31/18/30/31/30/30 (HP Rock 70)
200802D4, Frame 254: 31/31/31/30/31/31 (HP Electric 70)
600C029B, Frame 54: 31/22/31/30/31/31 (HP Grass 70)
1A0102AD, Frame 205: 31/10/31/30/30/31 (HP Ground 70)
600E0297, Frame 142: 31/23/30/30/30/30 (HP Fighting 70)

2. Setup

You'll want to save in front of the deliveryman (of course). You'll also want to set the game up such that the journal will appear as soon as you start the game on your target date. You'll also want one or two earlier dates in the Journal with RNG-advancing caught or defeated entries. Having the journal up at the start is crucial because you can't check if your seed is correct before advancing the RNG due to the unpredictable movements of the non-player-characters (NPCs).

Also important is having an empty slot in the party. The last thing you want is to be all set up and then be unable to receive your prize because it didn't occur to you to have the empty slot.

If you are aiming for an even frame, you might want to have Mesprit or Cresselia roaming before you start, as the game will call the RNG once to determine its location at the beginning of the session. Even frames can be obtained without the wandering Pokémon, but it is slightly more difficult to do so.

3. Get your prize!

Odd frame (or even frame with wandering Pokémon):

When you start the game, flip to the journal enough times to reach the target frame (minus one if you want an even frame and you have a wanderer).

Once you've sufficiently advanced the RNG, you'll want to talk to the deliveryman as quickly as possible to avoid the meddling of the NPCs.

If you got the right seed and advanced the RNG properly, the IVs should be correct. The nature is entirely up to a different random number generator we can't control yet, so if you get a nature you don't want, all you can do is throw it back and try again.

Even frame without a wanderer:

This is similar to the procedure above, except you'll have to take advantage of the NPC's movement to switch from odd to even. You'll want to see how far the RNG advances when an NPC in the mart moves (hopefully this is an odd number), and adapt your journal flipping accordingly (the sum of Journal RNG advancement + NPC RNG Advancement should be equal to your Wonder Card target frame - 1).

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EDIT: I've adapted this for the new version of RNG Reporter, and I think it's ready to go.

 

[VileTung]

I don't use it, mostly because the Filter feature in Excel (2007?) does this much more effectively. But I don't know how many other people have it, or don't know about it.

Hmm...Ok. I will wait to see if more people are replying at this =)

 

[Pehu]

Maybe since the Mining Museum is its own location (you can save or hatch pokemon there, and it will say "Mining Museum," the game treats it as a different place and ignores all other NPCs. Pokemarts and Pokemon Centers are part of "xxxx city" when you save in them.

I am 100% certain that my offset advanced when the NPCs inside the pokemart did not move.

I object to this, as I've advanced the frame for the Zapdos walking 128 steps inside of Oak's house, on Eterna City, crouded of NPCs, and then advanced with the journal, and I got my frame on the first try. No NPCs on Eterna City interfered with my frame. One would think that the same thing that applies to one common house would apply to the pokemarts.

 

[The Mole]

I don't know whether this can be asked here or if the Simple Q&A would be better, but is Giratina nature set when you first meet it back in the Distortion World? Because I ran from it and will reset once I have done the E4/understand the IV RNG for legends.

 

[LightningFusion]

I don't know whether this can be asked here or if the Simple Q&A would be better, but is Giratina nature set when you first meet it back in the Distortion World? Because I ran from it and will reset once I have done the E4/understand the IV RNG for legends.

It's nature is not set if you run from it I believe. I think Vile or syberia and maybe someone else tested this.

 

[Haile Selassie]

I don't fully understand the Coin Toss part, once I've entered all the IVs, nature, date, time etc in the seed finder, I use that seed. Now I select DPPt Egg (Normal) whilst not having any other stuff filled in, I generate. Then if I would get:
-not relevant - Heads - not relevant-
-not relevant - Heads - not relevant-
-not relevant - Heads - not relevant-
-not relevant - Tails - not relevant-

I would get Heads, Heads, Heads, Tails ingame?

Oh, and switching apps doesn't affect the RNG then?

 

[mingot]

How to Manipulate IVs of Wonder Card Pokémon

This is very nice, did you want me to clean it up and merge it with the OP or?

I object to this, as I've advanced the frame for the Zapdos walking 128 steps inside of Oak's house, on Eterna City, crouded of NPCs, and then advanced with the journal, and I got my frame on the first try. No NPCs on Eterna City interfered with my frame. One would think that the same thing that applies to one common house would apply to the pokemarts.

I am also skeptical. Needs testing, though.

It's nature is not set if you run from it I believe. I think Vile or syberia and maybe someone else tested this.

Confirming.

The monster in turnback cave is actually a new monster, I am quite certain.

 

[LightningFusion]

I don't fully understand the Coin Toss part, once I've entered all the IVs, nature, date, time etc in the seed finder, I use that seed. Now I select DPPt Egg (Normal) whilst not having any other stuff filled in, I generate. Then if I would get:
-not relevant - Heads - not relevant-
-not relevant - Heads - not relevant-
-not relevant - Heads - not relevant-
-not relevant - Tails - not relevant-

I would get Heads, Heads, Heads, Tails ingame?

Oh, and switching apps doesn't affect the RNG then?

Yes that would be the order in game. HHHT...
Switching apps only affects the egg RNG.

 

[Haile Selassie]

Thanks, that will make Dialga a whole lot easier.

 

[Wild Eep]

This is very nice, did you want me to clean it up and merge it with the OP or?

Thanks! You can do what you like with it (keeping in mind that I should update it when you add the Wonder Card section to RNG Reporter).

 

[mingot]

Ok, I may hold off until that update happens. Gives us more time to find good spreads, too.

Your signature is so 3rd generation.

 

[Wild Eep]

Ok, I may hold off until that update happens. Gives us more time to find good spreads, too.

Your signature is so 3rd generation.

I put a few more Hidden Power spreads into the guide (Rock, Electric, Grass, Ground, and Fighting).

My signature is, unfortunately, no longer 3rd generation, as it occurred to me I <3 more than just Emerald! :-P (Truth be told, I actually prefer the 4th gen RNG, since you have more control over the IV spreads it gives you)

 

[COKTAL]

Okay, I'm about to start going for a Trapinch w/ perfect IV's in everything but SA, and the frame it came up with is 2 (this is breeding). So what I'll want to do is enter the game at the correct time, and wait until one of the NPCs take one step, and then talk to him, right?