@ familyguyman: ScarfTran's Fire Blast can 3HKO with Stealth Rock, and isn't affected by Intimidate, thus keeping its power throughout a sweep. Besides, ScarfTran is used as a check, so just by forcing an opponent out and doing some damage to its switchin, it has done its job. Yours can't revenge kill anything, except Scizor, which is hit by a move which isn't powerful due to lack of investment.
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New and "creative" moveset/EV spread thread. Mk. 4
- Thread starter darkie
- Start date
- Status
Why hasn't anyone thought of this before?
Gyarados @ Leftovers
Impish - Intimidate
252 Hp, 252 Def, 4 Sp.Def
~ Roar
~ Taunt
~ Waterfall
~ Thunder Wave
Offensive Gyarados is such a threat that this set is even more unpredictable. With Stealth Rock support, this set looks even better. What I like most about this set is that it draws out All the possible gyarados counters, such as Suicune, Vaporeon, Celebi, and Skarmory and simply roar them away to scout and additionally rack up Stealth Rock damage. Taunt helps screw over things that think they can set up on you once they figure out your moveset (Skarmory, Forretress, and especially CM Suicune). Thunder Wave cripples Scizor, Starmie, Jirachi, Metagross, and pretty much any other smart ass that wants to come in on you, (just watch out for Jolteon).
The EV spread is the standard Impish set to maximize it's bulk and ability to take physical hits. Pretty simple.
Gyarados @ Leftovers
Impish - Intimidate
252 Hp, 252 Def, 4 Sp.Def
~ Roar
~ Taunt
~ Waterfall
~ Thunder Wave
Offensive Gyarados is such a threat that this set is even more unpredictable. With Stealth Rock support, this set looks even better. What I like most about this set is that it draws out All the possible gyarados counters, such as Suicune, Vaporeon, Celebi, and Skarmory and simply roar them away to scout and additionally rack up Stealth Rock damage. Taunt helps screw over things that think they can set up on you once they figure out your moveset (Skarmory, Forretress, and especially CM Suicune). Thunder Wave cripples Scizor, Starmie, Jirachi, Metagross, and pretty much any other smart ass that wants to come in on you, (just watch out for Jolteon).
The EV spread is the standard Impish set to maximize it's bulk and ability to take physical hits. Pretty simple.
Not sure if this was even seen before the last thread died.
@Leftovers/Salac Berry/Fist Plate
Ability: Steadfast
EVs: 252 SpA / 252 Spd / 4 SpDef
Nature: Modest
-Substitute
-Calm Mind
-Aura Sphere
-Shadow Ball
I'm really surprised this very basic, very effective set is not listed in the analysis, or used more often. Lucarios scares many Pokemon with the threat of Close Combat, and Sword Dance, so it easily creates switches, giving it the chance to setup a Substitute. Once you have a Substitute up, your opponent will be in for a lot of trouble. If something like Cresselia switches into you, you've hit pay dirt, being able to setup one Calm Mind behind a Substitute and other as you're hit with a very weak Psychic.
If they decide to go for Blissey after your first Calm Mind, they're screwed. Blissey is easily 2HKOed after two Calm Minds, and will struggle to break your Substitutes, barring Flamethrower/Seismic Toss. Lucario can afford to eat a Flamethrower as well, to setup another Calm Mind.
This pairs well with Screens from Latias, and as an Offensive partner with Gyarados. With Screens up, Lucario has many more Pokemon it can setup on, easily packing multiple Calm Minds before sweeping.
I've used mostly Leftovers, but Salac Berry can work if you're content on using Lucario as an all, or nothing sweeper. He definitely benefits from the speed boost. Fist Plate is an option to score some assured 2HKOs with Aura Sphere. The reason Modest is used over Timid is that this Lucario wants power, and can't afford the massive drop by running a +Speed nature.
Sorry for bringing back this old one. Actually i have just re-read every sets and found that i quite like this thing. It can serve at least just as gimmick or fun set. Sure it is inferior against Jirachi and it lacks the surprise element the Specs set brings along, but it is an effective substitute of Jirachi. Perhaps for in game battle frontier since Jira is banned. I know this is no good reasoning, but honestly i prefer using AuraSphere Luke than CC for some reason. This Luke is made to be somewhat bulky too, like the ultimate reverse of the most used SD set. Perhaps CC can be another option in the Subs slot.
Why hasn't anyone thought of this before?
Gyarados @ Leftovers
Impish - Intimidate
252 Hp, 252 Def, 4 Sp.Def
~ Roar
~ Taunt
~ Waterfall
~ Thunder Wave
Offensive Gyarados is such a threat that this set is even more unpredictable. With Stealth Rock support, this set looks even better. What I like most about this set is that it draws out All the possible gyarados counters, such as Suicune, Vaporeon, Celebi, and Skarmory and simply roar them away to scout and additionally rack up Stealth Rock damage. Taunt helps screw over things that think they can set up on you once they figure out your moveset (Skarmory, Forretress, and especially CM Suicune). Thunder Wave cripples Scizor, Starmie, Jirachi, Metagross, and pretty much any other smart ass that wants to come in on you, (just watch out for Jolteon).
The EV spread is the standard Impish set to maximize it's bulk and ability to take physical hits. Pretty simple.
There is already a Physically defensive Gyarados, but it usually runs ResTalk so that it has some form of recovery (otherwise, even with leftovers, it can't recover in a Sandstorm or Hail, meaning it gets worn down by SR and hits until it dies). Rest + Sleeptalk seems like a better use of its moveslots than Taunt + Thunderwave, to be honest.
Celebii
Choice Band
-Seed Bomb
-U-turn
-Zen Headbutt/Return/Recover
-Trick
Choice Band
Adamant Nature
252 Atk/252 Spe/6 Hp
Choice Band Celebi. The most common switch ins are weak to U-turn (Tyranitar, Weavile). If Scizor switches in, you can go to Magnezone.
U-turn Vs 4/0 Tyranitar: Damage: 57.31% - 67.25%
U-turn Vs 4/0 Weavile:Damage: 106.38% - 125.18%
Tyranitar loses over half it's health while Weavile is OHKO'd. When something like Skarmory comes in you can trick your band, crippling it for the rest of the match. This matches well with a Magnezone to trap CB Scizor. If you still want to use Celebi defensivly, you can run a Bulkier EV spread with recover. Seed Bomb is STAB as is Zen Headbutt while Return is 100 base power.
Choice Band
-Seed Bomb
-U-turn
-Zen Headbutt/Return/Recover
-Trick
Choice Band
Adamant Nature
252 Atk/252 Spe/6 Hp
Choice Band Celebi. The most common switch ins are weak to U-turn (Tyranitar, Weavile). If Scizor switches in, you can go to Magnezone.
U-turn Vs 4/0 Tyranitar: Damage: 57.31% - 67.25%
U-turn Vs 4/0 Weavile:Damage: 106.38% - 125.18%
Tyranitar loses over half it's health while Weavile is OHKO'd. When something like Skarmory comes in you can trick your band, crippling it for the rest of the match. This matches well with a Magnezone to trap CB Scizor. If you still want to use Celebi defensivly, you can run a Bulkier EV spread with recover. Seed Bomb is STAB as is Zen Headbutt while Return is 100 base power.
Celebii
Choice Band
-Seed Bomb
-U-turn
-Zen Headbutt/Return/Recover
-Trick
Choice Band
Adamant Nature
252 Atk/252 Spe/6 Hp
Choice Band Celebi. The most common switch ins are weak to U-turn (Tyranitar, Weavile). If Scizor switches in, you can go to Magnezone.
U-turn Vs 4/0 Tyranitar: Damage: 57.31% - 67.25%
U-turn Vs 4/0 Weavile:Damage: 106.38% - 125.18%
Tyranitar loses over half it's health while Weavile is OHKO'd. When something like Skarmory comes in you can trick your band, crippling it for the rest of the match. This matches well with a Magnezone to trap CB Scizor. If you still want to use Celebi defensivly, you can run a Bulkier EV spread with recover. Seed Bomb is STAB as is Zen Headbutt while Return is 100 base power.
Yeah, I've considered this set myself. However, the main problem is that it is largely inferior to Specs, which can actually OHKO that Tyranitar with a Grass Knot/Leaf Storm and can OHKO Weavile with a Leaf Storm or Hidden Power Fire. That's the other thing, specs gets coverage moves like HP Fire and Earth Power, while Band is left with no move to hit Steel Types at all.
Anti-Lead Crobat @ Life Orb
- Taunt
- Heat Wave
- Hypnosis
- Toxic/Confuse Ray
Inner Focus
Timid
EVs: HP 130/SpA 128/Spd 252
This Crobat is meant to thwart just about any lead imaginable. By using Taunt it can stop the foe from setting up entry hazards or using status moves. 128 EVs in Sp. Attack, plus Life Orb, allow Heat Wave to 2HKO standard lead Jirachi, Metagross, and anything else weak to it. Hypnosis puts other leads to sleep. The last move is mostly filler. Toxic or Confuse Ray annoy other Pokemon throughout the match. Crobat's great Speed makes all of this possible. Plus, Inner Focus prevents flinching from the likes of Iron Head Jirachi.
Please tell me what you think. Any suggestions would be apprieciated.
Anti-Lead Crobat @ Life Orb
- Taunt
- Heat Wave
- Hypnosis
- Toxic/Confuse Ray
Inner Focus
Timid
EVs: HP 130/SpA 128/Spd 252
This Crobat is meant to thwart just about any lead imaginable. By using Taunt it can stop the foe from setting up entry hazards or using status moves. 128 EVs in Sp. Attack, plus Life Orb, allow Heat Wave to 2HKO standard lead Jirachi, Metagross, and anything else weak to it. Hypnosis puts other leads to sleep. The last move is mostly filler. Toxic or Confuse Ray annoy other Pokemon throughout the match. Crobat's great Speed makes all of this possible. Plus, Inner Focus prevents flinching from the likes of Iron Head Jirachi.
Please tell me what you think. Any suggestions would be apprieciated.
Not a bad lead. If I matched up against my lead, LO Mamoswine, Taunt would nix my SR if you lead with that, but you would not OHKO it with Heat Wave (69.06% - 81.77% to 4 HP Mamo). EDIT: no OHKO w/o a crit
Regardless you would get OHKO'd with the return attacked Ice Shard and I'm left with death fodder.
I wasn't really thinking of Mamoswine when I made this. So it doesn't really counter it. I'll keep what you said in mind if I ever run into a Mamo.
Pokemon Name: Ludicolo
Moveset Name: OU Rain Dance Lead
Move 1: Fake Out
Move 2: Rain Dance
Move 3: Surf
Move 4: Energy Ball
Item: Damp Rock
Ability: Swift Swim
Nature: Modest
EVs: 120 HP / 136 Spe / 252 SAtk
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Thanks to Ludicolo's great typing and resistance to common OU attacks this can make an effective lead in the OU metagame. Fake Out breaks any random sashes from the likes of Azelf, Aerodactyl, Weavile ect. and means that they are forced to set up Stealth Rock or just attack in the case of Weavile since they aren't guaranteed to ever get it up if they dont at that moment. Rain Dance should be your second move. After it has been used then you outspeed all the common leads and take most of them down.
That seems like a cool set. I can't really see it working though because Rain Dance teams like SR from the start.
the biggest problem with this set is scizor, none of your move can touch it and it doesn't mind being tricked a choice band at all, and it can smash you with pursuit/u-turnCelebii
Choice Band
-Seed Bomb
-U-turn
-Zen Headbutt/Return/Recover
-Trick
Choice Band
Adamant Nature
252 Atk/252 Spe/6 Hp
Choice Band Celebi. The most common switch ins are weak to U-turn (Tyranitar, Weavile). If Scizor switches in, you can go to Magnezone.
U-turn Vs 4/0 Tyranitar: Damage: 57.31% - 67.25%
U-turn Vs 4/0 Weavile:Damage: 106.38% - 125.18%
Tyranitar loses over half it's health while Weavile is OHKO'd. When something like Skarmory comes in you can trick your band, crippling it for the rest of the match. This matches well with a Magnezone to trap CB Scizor. If you still want to use Celebi defensivly, you can run a Bulkier EV spread with recover. Seed Bomb is STAB as is Zen Headbutt while Return is 100 base power.
Ability: Solid Rock
EVs: 56 HP/200 Spd/252 SAtk
Timid nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Earth Power
- Overheat
- Stealth Rock
- Protect
I've been using this as an anti-lead to great success. Earth Power handles Infernapes, Metagross', and Heatrans, while Overheat handles Bronzong, Jirachi and to a lesser extent Azelfs. I use the Life Orb variant, as lead Infernapes hardly give me any real problems. It also deals massive amounts of damage to other OU threats.
Infernape - First turn, they usually use Fake Out. But use Earth Power just in case. Second turn they'll use Stealth Rock, while you bring them to 1 HP.
Third turn they CC you and you kill it off.
Standard Lead Ape's Fake Out vs. Camerupt
260 Atk vs 176 Def & 295 HP (40 Base Power): 43 - 51 (14.58% - 17.29%)
Standard Lead Ape's Close Combat vs. Camerupt
260 Atk vs 176 Def & 295 HP (120 Base Power): 190 - 225 (64.41% - 76.27%)
225+51 = 276, so even if they score max damage for both attacks, Camerupt still lives. And is able to finish Infernape off. Life orb could potentially lower your HP enough for CC to kill you.
Metagross - Standard Lead Metagross runs 178 speed, neutral/max Camerupt hits 179. So I made Camerupt Timid so I can have a little buffer space. But;
Life Orb Camerupt's Earth Power vs. Standard Lead Metagross
309 Atk vs 216 Def & 364 HP (90 Base Power): 362 - 428 (99.45% - 117.58%)
92% chance to OHKO
It's not a guarenteed OHKO, but they will most likey SR first turn expecting to live off of the Occa Berry.
Heatran - The only one I've ever fought Earth Powered right away, which I lived, and proceeded to OHKO him back through the Shuca berry.
Timid Max SpA Heatran's Earth Power vs. Camerupt
359 Atk vs 186 Def & 295 HP (90 Base Power): 186 - 220 (63.05% - 74.58%)
Camerupt's Earth Power vs. Standard Lead Heatran(Shuca)
309 Atk vs 248 Def & 324 HP (90 Base Power): 314 - 372 (96.91% - 114.81%)
Unfortunately not a guaranteed OHKO, but a decent 79% chance.
Bronzong - You outspeed him and OHKO with Overheat.
Camerupt's Overheat vs. Sassy Max HP/92 SpD Levitate Zong.
309 Atk vs 320 Def & 338 HP (140 Base Power): 378 - 446 (111.83% - 131.95%)
Jirachi - I haven't fought one yet, but all they can really do to you is trick. So Protect first turn, to see what they lock themselves into. And make the appropriate switch or
Camerupt's Overheat vs. Calm MaxHP/MaxSpD Jirachi
309 Atk vs 328 Def & 404 HP (140 Base Power): 368 - 434 (91.09% - 107.43%)
I can't ever imagine running into a +Max/Max Jirachi, so it's pretty safe to assume a OHKO.
Azelf - Overheat while they set up rocks, protect on the obvious explosion. They can't really do anything to you other than explode.
Camerupt is also a great counter for Zapdos, as the only move they commonly carry that isn't resisted damage is Hidden Power Ice/Grass.
Camerupt Overheat vs. Standard MaxHP/MinSpD Zapdos
309 Atk vs 216 Def & 384 HP (140 Base Power): 280 - 331 (72.92% - 86.20%)
87% chance to OHKO after SR damage.
Anyway, I used Life Orb in all my calcs. Any 'Standard' sets can be found on their analysis page. Going modest over timid will guarantee the OHKO on Jirachi, Heatran, and Metagross and will guarentee the OHKO after SR to Zapdos.
Edit: Oh yeah, I forgot. All calcs were done using Libelldra's Damage Calc.
Unless the Pokemon that gets caught by Mean Look has one of Smeargle's default moves (which is unlikely unless Breloom happens to switch in), Imprison will fail as you need at least one shared move for it to work. The other two sets would work, although I can't say how viable they are.
This can work however I feel it's inferior to a choice specs lead I came up with a while ago. The set I came up with outspeeds and OHKO's Swampert, Hippowdon Metagross Bronzong leads. Trick leads that think you are going to SR are stuck again with specs.
Modest 252Spd 252 SpA 4 hp fairly straightfoward
-Lava Plume STAB with its burn rate can take care of Azelf.
-Earth Power STAB for Heatran etc
-Eruption for soley Hippowdon and Bronzong. I think you can OHKO Heatproof Occa berry Zong.
-Hp grass only for Swampert
All the info can be found from this link and following the respective links around smogon.
http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1949867#post1949867
Obviously yours can set up SR and switch attacks but is also susceptible to taunt.
You transform into your opponents pokemon. So you have all of their moves. Its a neat set.
The main problem is, Imprison will only go off if you have one of the Pokemon's original moves (aka Spore, Mean Look, Imprison, Transform). From there, if it does go off, you can Transform and lock down the opponent's moves, but considering how many Pokemon will have that moveset... (Spore - Breloom, Parasect, Smeargle; Mean Look - Gengar, Mismagius, Umbreon, Perish Song sets; Imprison - none that i know of in a standard set; Transform - Ditto) it's very unlikely, and besides, for a few of them it's mostly on gimmick sets. It was a good thought but more often then not, your Imprison will fail and Smeargle will die to an oncoming attack by the newly Mean Looked Pokemon.
not even close
eruption vs. 252/92+ heatproof occa berry bronzong 508 Atk vs 320 Def & 338 HP (75 Base Power): 129 - 153 (38.17% - 45.27%)
earthpower would KO about half the time but there's no way you could predict that
I am actually amazed that Camerupt has been considered as a lead before.
But being Fire/Ground Camerupt can get a decent amount of switch-ins (because of how common T-wave is) while (hopefully) scaring something out, providing me with plenty of opportunities to set up rocks.
Also, you don't need specs to OHKO Swampert with HP Grass.
Modest 252 SpA Camerupt's HPGrass vs. 240HP/16SpD Swampert
338 Atk vs 220 Def & 401 HP (70 Base Power): 404 - 476 (100.75% - 118.70%)
So you can go Modest, still be able to outrun most Metagross, and get the OHKO on Swampert. I just like being able to be absolutely certain I outspeed metagross.
Besides, if Swampert does attack on the first turn (which most won't)
Impish 240Hp/252Def/16SpD Earthquake vs. Camerupt
256 Atk vs 176 Def & 295 HP (100 Base Power): 235 - 279 (79.66% - 94.58%)
Surf will obviously K.O. due to torrent.
Camerupt has a chance to live and finish Swampert off. And if Camerupt doesn't finish Swampert off, then Swampert is low enough on health that it becomes death fodder.
And protect has been wonderful for an odd rise in Trick Room teams. And obvious explosions, but seriously what's with all the Trick Room teams?
Anti-Lead Crobat @ Life Orb
- Taunt
- Heat Wave
- Hypnosis
- Toxic/Confuse Ray
Inner Focus
Timid
EVs: HP 130/SpA 128/Spd 252
This Crobat is meant to thwart just about any lead imaginable. By using Taunt it can stop the foe from setting up entry hazards or using status moves. 128 EVs in Sp. Attack, plus Life Orb, allow Heat Wave to 2HKO standard lead Jirachi, Metagross, and anything else weak to it. Hypnosis puts other leads to sleep. The last move is mostly filler. Toxic or Confuse Ray annoy other Pokemon throughout the match. Crobat's great Speed makes all of this possible. Plus, Inner Focus prevents flinching from the likes of Iron Head Jirachi.
Please tell me what you think. Any suggestions would be apprieciated.
I actually used this lead quite a bit on shoddy and has done wonders for me. The only thing different I did was use U-turn in the filler spot. Heat Wave usually gets rid of steel leads such as Jirachi and Metagross (And Scizor this one time, lol). And it destroys Ninjask leads (which is surprisingly common on Shoddy) with both Taunt and, again, Heat Wave. Other than that, you use Hypnosis then GTFO.
The only thing that this set dislikes is when Hypnosis misses and when you're up against Mamoswine with Ice Shardz. I tried having my Crobat hold Wide Lens to help with Hypnosis 60% accuracy (bleh) but it doesn't seem to help so much. Although, even if Hypnosis misses, Crobat is surprisingly bulky enough to take a couple hits. Also, I took some Speed EV's out of it's set and invested in HP some more. The only pokes that can outspeed it are Electrode, which is never seen, Jolteon, same as Electrode, and Aerodactyl, which at best can speed tie.
One more thing I'd like to point out is that Crobat can be an effective late game sweeper. If you still have your Crobat, it can clean up your opponents Pokemon that are scarred from Status effects, Spikes, and Stealth Rock. It has even been my saving grace in a few neck to neck battles. But yeah, Crobat is win, imo.
A quick set I through together:
Swords Dance MixApe
Infernape (F) @ Life Orb
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 252 Atk/192 Spd/64 SAtk
Naive nature (+Spd, -SDef)
- Swords Dance
- Close Combat
- Overheat
- Stone Edge
I was just testing to see if I could make a Physical version of "Nasty Plot MixApe". The abundance of MixApe on the special side leads to counters like Latias, who is stroked by a +2 Stone Edge.
I suck at EVs so it's just the EVs from Physical MixApe. And the moves are just from SD Ape with Fire Punch replaced with Overheat.
I feel bad for posting a thrown together set, but I need help to see where to go with this and it's doing pretty well already.
Swords Dance MixApe
Infernape (F) @ Life Orb
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 252 Atk/192 Spd/64 SAtk
Naive nature (+Spd, -SDef)
- Swords Dance
- Close Combat
- Overheat
- Stone Edge
I was just testing to see if I could make a Physical version of "Nasty Plot MixApe". The abundance of MixApe on the special side leads to counters like Latias, who is stroked by a +2 Stone Edge.
I suck at EVs so it's just the EVs from Physical MixApe. And the moves are just from SD Ape with Fire Punch replaced with Overheat.
I feel bad for posting a thrown together set, but I need help to see where to go with this and it's doing pretty well already.
A quick set I through together:
Swords Dance MixApe
Infernape (F) @ Life Orb
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 252 Atk/192 Spd/64 SAtk
Naive nature (+Spd, -SDef)
- Swords Dance
- Close Combat
- Overheat
- Stone Edge
I was just testing to see if I could make a Physical version of "Nasty Plot MixApe". The abundance of MixApe on the special side leads to counters like Latias, who is stroked by a +2 Stone Edge.
I suck at EVs so it's just the EVs from Physical MixApe. And the moves are just from SD Ape with Fire Punch replaced with Overheat.
I feel bad for posting a thrown together set, but I need help to see where to go with this and it's doing pretty well already.
Worked well against me, even though I'm a pretty poor player.
That was the point, though; they switch in something specially bulky, and then fall to the +2 Stone Edge or whatever. Don't know about Starmie.
So obviously, on the most defensive standard sets, OHKO's are missed. However, if they've switched a couple times before, then they are dead.
Latias without HP EVs are OHKO'd if there is SR. According to June Stats, 58% of Latias's have no HP EVs and only 19.5% have 100-150 HP EVs.
Tentacruel had only 4.6% usage, but it's still a problem, I suppose. Same goes with Starmie, then.
So obviously, Latias's generally won't be a problem but are bit risky. Tentacruel and Starmie are still a problem, but are more rare. It's no NP MixApe, but I think this one does a good job of wall breaking as well.
- Status