The Uber Metagame: a Fun "Change of Pace"

[mtr]

I think that's tripe's team, though it could really be any team.

Well, that works when you've got Spikes up, but it's often tough to get up Spikes when the opponent is bearing down on you with special attackers. The best way to get them up in my experience (and yours, I guess from your RMT) without waiting for a physical attack is to double switch, which is rather risky.

Cristal, I believe, has a Quick Stall team that involves Encore Jumpluff to check many threats. I haven't seen too much in the way of Wobbystall anymore.

Laddering with stall against adroit opponents is indeed difficult, and I couldn't get above 30th. But I don't know if it's any more difficult than it is with an offensive team, though, as that involves pretty heavy prediction wars, which aren't easy either.

 

[tripe]

I think that's tripe's team, though it could really be any team.

Well, that works when you've got Spikes up, but it's often tough to get up Spikes when the opponent is bearing down on you with special attackers. The best way to get them up in my experience (and yours, I guess from your RMT) without waiting for a physical attack is to double switch, which is rather risky.

Cristal, I believe, has a Quick Stall team that involves Encore Jumpluff to check many threats. I haven't seen too much in the way of Wobbystall anymore.

Laddering with stall against adroit opponents is indeed difficult, and I couldn't get above 30th. But I don't know if it's any more difficult than it is with an offensive team, though, as that involves pretty heavy prediction wars, which aren't easy either.

That's one of my beginning teams, now my teams are focused on entry hazards, and force walls to either or retreat or get blasted by something like Mixquaza or one of my personal favorites Bulky dragon dance Tyranitar.

 

[gengod]

So. I haven't played Ubers in a little while. Thinking about getting back into it. What's become of it? I'm sure it's become more "fun".

 

[Fuzznip]

I've battled in Ubers for a bit, but I honestly hate that metagame. I just hate the fact that almost every single team is bound to have 2-3 Pokemon that you have on your own team. It's such a limited metagame in my opinion, not too many options to choose from. Not only that, but it's dam hard to get into and actually win a game (for beginners that is).

I really don't like playing Ubers at all, but that's just me.

 

[XtrEEmMaShEEn3k2]

I think that's tripe's team, though it could really be any team.

Well, that works when you've got Spikes up, but it's often tough to get up Spikes when the opponent is bearing down on you with special attackers. The best way to get them up in my experience (and yours, I guess from your RMT) without waiting for a physical attack is to double switch, which is rather risky.

Cristal, I believe, has a Quick Stall team that involves Encore Jumpluff to check many threats. I haven't seen too much in the way of Wobbystall anymore.

Laddering with stall against adroit opponents is indeed difficult, and I couldn't get above 30th. But I don't know if it's any more difficult than it is with an offensive team, though, as that involves pretty heavy prediction wars, which aren't easy either.

See, this is why you take notes when you play. I have a whole lot of teams already written down on my notes. You should too.

 

[Matthew]

I've battled in Ubers for a bit, but I honestly hate that metagame. I just hate the fact that almost every single team is bound to have 2-3 Pokemon that you have on your own team. It's such a limited metagame in my opinion, not too many options to choose from. Not only that, but it's dam hard to get into and actually win a game (for beginners that is).

I really don't like playing Ubers at all, but that's just me.

then why post in this thread if you hate the metagame so much. if you dislike something please keep it to yourself, but otherwise you're just trying to get us all agitated about how "bog standard it is". If anything you should be able to abuse the fact that everything is so standard and take advantage of it through odd sets. Mix Rayquaza and Dialga (hasty 252 spe) are extremely deadly in this metagame, yet no one prepares for them as they're not seen. Mewtwo can run pretty much any set it wants, yet people go with Taunt Calm Mind when Mewtwo can do a plethora of other jobs equally well.

Just because a specific set is used a lot, I would not encourage you to only limit yourself to that set on a pokemon. Palkia is almost always a scarfer, why? It is probably one of the best wall breakers around. Kyogre is always Choice Specs, I don't see why again as Sub Calm Mind is twice as deadly (beware Toxic Spikes).

Really if you see the metagame as boring and plain you have no one to blame but yourself for sticking to the same old sets that everyone knows and prepares for. Consider in OU when the first team with Suicide Azelf can about, it wasn't used because no one before thought of it, I'm sure using a team with some sets no one has thought of will encourage others to do the same.

 

[Fuzznip]

then why post in this thread if you hate the metagame so much. if you dislike something please keep it to yourself, but otherwise you're just trying to get us all agitated about how "bog standard it is". If anything you should be able to abuse the fact that everything is so standard and take advantage of it through odd sets. Mix Rayquaza and Dialga (hasty 252 spe) are extremely deadly in this metagame, yet no one prepares for them as they're not seen. Mewtwo can run pretty much any set it wants, yet people go with Taunt Calm Mind when Mewtwo can do a plethora of other jobs equally well.

Just because a specific set is used a lot, I would not encourage you to only limit yourself to that set on a pokemon. Palkia is almost always a scarfer, why? It is probably one of the best wall breakers around. Kyogre is always Choice Specs, I don't see why again as Sub Calm Mind is twice as deadly (beware Toxic Spikes).

Really if you see the metagame as boring and plain you have no one to blame but yourself for sticking to the same old sets that everyone knows and prepares for. Consider in OU when the first team with Suicide Azelf can about, it wasn't used because no one before thought of it, I'm sure using a team with some sets no one has thought of will encourage others to do the same.

You speak truth, sorry for that.

I suppose sticking with all of this standard stuff is really boring me, for sure. I guess it wouldn't hurt to use sets that people haven't seen, which may even give me the upper-hand in a battle. I have to try that and see how it goes.

Thanks.

 

[mtr]

See, this is why you take notes when you play. I have a whole lot of teams already written down on my notes. You should too.

I never bothered with that in standard, as all the opponents I played were just one time, usually. In ubers, when you play them again and again, it's probably a good idea. Thanks!

 

[Mr.378]

It's nice to know that I'm not alone in my YGO playing endevors.

Otherwise, I seem to be failing largely at ubers. I need to update my team.

 

[zzzzzzzzzzz]

It's taking all night for one game.

Not really, there are lots of people on ladder nowadays.

I just hate the fact that almost every single team is bound to have 2-3 Pokemon that you have on your own team.

Exactly what I like. More centralization = I am more happy

What's become of it?

I played around 20-30 battles yesterday and before two days and:
-I didn't see any Deoxys-S or Garchomp
-Scarf Palkia and Wobbuffet are everywhere. I have played vs a guy who used Scarf Groudon, S. Kyogre and S. Palkia. I even think that Wynaut can be viable to help Wobba kill the Scarfers so Wobb can set up something else.

Scarf Modest max SpA Palkia Surf in the rain vs 20/252 Calm Wynaut: Damage: 94.05% - 110.71%. So, if Palkia is Timid Wynaut can take everything and OHKO with Mirror Coat/Counter.
-Nobody used a stall team in those battles.

I've tested Swords Dance Weavile (Ice Shard, Night Slash and Brick Break) and here are the results:
-Very Wobb dependant. It can't get a SD on anything barring Deoxys-D and Cloyster (from experience)
-After a SD, Giratina and Kyogre can take a hit and laugh.

I guess that with Ice Punch instead of SD it can do good. IP 2HKOs Groudon.

-SubSeed Skymin is good but it really can't set up on many things.
-Monoattacking Darkrai is pretty good though
-Calm Mind Kyogre with Rest and Chesto Berry is very cool. I have never used Rest more than once per battle and it is really nice to recover your HP and status in one turn

 

[Deep Thought]

I've seen Private Piplup use his Lead Mew set with great success it goes.
Mew@Lum Berry
Nature: ?
Evs: ?
-U-Turn
-Taunt
-Stealth Rock
-Explosion

It can set up Stealth Rock and then Explode like your standard Suicide lead. Against Deoxys-E, they usually Taunt you so you can predict the Taunt and U-Turn away, breaking its Focus Sash. Against Darkrai Leads, they usually try to Dark Void right off the bat, which is what the Lum Berry is for, so you can Taunt, forcing them to switch and then set up Stealth Rock on the switch.

Actually, that's not his LeadMew - it's mine, as is the team he may have been using with it when you watched him . I've been using LeadMew for a while now on a team that currently has me at 2nd on the leaderboard (who is Low Echeleon and how did he get an 1875 rating?!), and let me tell you, it is without a doubt one of the best leads in Ubers. The nature is Jolly and the EVs are 252 HP/222 Spe/36 Atk, with the item and moves as you described. It does a great job of putting the momentum on your side right from the start of the battle, which can often be crucial in this incredibly fast-paced metagame. Against faster leads like Deoxys-S and Darkrai, you just U-turn away the first time and come back in later to get rocks up and explode. However, in rematches where the opponent knows that Mew has U-turn and a Lum Berry, you can Taunt Deoxys-S after it sets up Stealth Rock or go straight to a Dark Pulse resist against Darkrai. It's amazingly versatile, and it's even more effective because no one expects it at all. Look for it to be featured in a warstory that I hope to post fairly soon!

I have found while laddering that the Uber metagame is still dynamic at this point in time, which is good because it shows that not everything has been exploited yet. (I hope to change that in the case of LeadMew!) Since everyone has a pre-conditioned response to each Pokémon based on its most common set (specs for Kyogre, scarf for Palkia, etc.), using sets that are less common can be devastating to people who are laddering on autopilot, especially stall players.

 

[Erazor]

Low Echelon is Eo Ut Mortus :)

For me, it's still difficult getting a match on the ladder, although it's easier than before.

 

[Private Piplup]

Yes, credit goes to Deep Thought for the Mew lead, however, I have found that 220 Speed and a Jolly nature is somewhat wasted, as there is nothing to outrun. Lead Groudon has no hope of outrunning a Mew, and Mew can't even dream of outspeeding Darkrai, Deoxys-f, Deoxys-e, or Shaymin (I could go on). There's just not that many leads in that Speed Tier. Therefore, I have gone with an Adamant nature and minimal Speed EV's (around 60 Speed, to outpace Rock Polish Groudon before it boosts) and pouring the rest into Attack. This makes for a much more powerful Explosion (always nice) and still outpaces the things it needs to.

Now, about why I play Ubers. For one thing, I have always preferred to use the best possible things available to me. I always thought "But so and so does the job so much better, too bad he's banned." (Fun fact, Groudon has the same base Defense as Skarmory, and lots more HP) Why not use the best? As a child growing up playing Pokemon, catching Legendaries was always an exciting event, as the battle music clearly denoted: This Pokemon is Special. Watching Mewtwo returns and his ridiculous psychic powers made me practically salivate about finally catching Mewtwo, and the mystique that surrounded the King of Pokemon. Besides, ever since Generation II, the whole reason of buying a Pokemon game was the Box Legendary (Lugia for Silver, Ho-oh for Gold, etc). Sure, you could get Lugia in Gold, and Ho-oh in Silver, but you didn't get Aeroblast and Sacred Fire, respectively, which is the whole point of getting Lugia/Ho-oh. (For me as a kid, at least) Finally, as a competitive player, Ubers takes much more skill, and is much more fast-paced, and there are no banned Pokemon (screw you, Arceus<--he's not even that good, just ridiculously versatile), and less limitations is a better thing in my book.

As a bonus for you all (for reading this wall of text), a little set I was going to keep secret, but as I am not laddering intensively anymore (I got to #9 on the Leaderboard), here it is.
Kyogre@Leftovers
Modest (+SpAttk, -Attk)
252 Hp, 36 Spe, 220 SpAttk
Calm Mind
Surf
Ice Beam
Substitute

coupled with

Latias@Soul Dew (Really, what else would it hold?)
Calm (+SpDef, -Attk*) Edit: Yes, it is -Attk, don't know what I was thinking
252 Hp, 252 Def, 4 SpAttk
Draco Meteor
Reflect
Light Screen
Healing Wish

The magic of this is that, in my experience, after Kyogre takes out Palkia (by subbing on the switch, Calm Minding as the sub is broken, and 2HKO'ing Palkia, which it can no longer do to you) the opponents really can't deal with a Sub-CM Kyogre anymore. However, it is left at around 30-40% HP, and is more or less neutered. But with Dual Screens and full health (and no status if Palkia manged to Paralyze you with Thunder), few teans are capable of standing up to Kyogre again. Some of you may wonder why Soul Dew is on Latias instead of Light Clay, but Kyogre doesn't need Dual Screens for that long, and Soul Dew makes Draco Meteor hit a lot harder, and makes Latias incredibly hard to kill. With Dual Screens and 101 Subs, few things can stand in the way of a Kyogre with even one Calm Mind, which it will most certainly get.

If you've actually read to here, I salute you.

 

[Private Piplup]

The weak link in a Baton Pass chain is the Passer, in this case, Mew. I see that both Dual Screeners Selfdestruct or Explode. When they kill something, switch in a Taunter (suc as Taunt-CM Mewtwo), or Trick Scarf the Mew. Don't try and Dark Void the Mew, as an intelligent Baton Passer will use a Lum Berry, and then outspeed and Taunt you after a Rock Polish. Alternatively, you can Whirlwind/Roar whatever comes in, but the Mew can Taunt you, so it best to just prevent a succesful Baton Pass.

 

[XtrEEmMaShEEn3k2]

Private Piplup, you said you wanted to see my Giratina-O?

Giratina-O@Platinum Orb
Levitate
Timid
30 Def/30 SpDef/196 Speed/252 SpA
-Dragon Pulse
-Shadow Ball
-Will O Wisp
-HP Fire
IVs:
HP: 31
Attack: 2
Defense: 31
Speed: 30
SAtk: 30
SDef: 31

Could probably use a bit of work. Just enough speed to outspeed Adamant SDRay, Max Special Attack, and 30 into the defenses because I didn't know where else to put them. Dragon Pulse and Shadow Ball for standard STAB, HP Fire for Forretress and Scizor. Will O' Wisp effects them to along with TTar and Groudon.

But now that the surprise is gone, people are gonna start adjusting. They're not gonna keep their Forretress in against Giratina like they have been doing since they think "Oh, I got Payback, he can't set up on me", and gonna start running Jolly SDRay like they should be doing from the beginning.

 

[Private Piplup]

Well, may I point out that 30 is not divisible by 4, so putting 30-30 gives you one less stat point than 28-32, or 28-28 with the 4 placed elsewhere. 196 Speed and a Timid nature really screws with the defensiveness of your Giratina-o, and you really shouldn't stay in on a Rayquaza anyways since they may be of the mixed variety, with Draco Meteor, so switching in is a no-no as well. I'd just go with all-out (mixed?) attacker and switch Will-o-Wisp for Thunder or maybe Earthquake. 75 accuracy is a tad too shaky for me, but that's just me.

 

[HSA]

Latias@Soul Dew (Really, what else would it hold?)
Calm (+SpDef, -Def)
252 Hp, 252 Def, 4 SpAttk
Draco Meteor
Reflect
Light Screen
Healing Wish

Calm is minus atk lol
Edit: didn`t realize it was latias
Either my team builder is broken or something`s wrong because latios can`t even learn healing wish.

 

[Private Piplup]

Draco Meteor is a special move, so that's why I used Calm. (Didn't realize that I put -Def)
Also, you are right, LatiOs does not get Healing Wish. It's a LatiAs.

 

[gengod]

As a bonus for you all (for reading this wall of text), a little set I was going to keep secret, but as I am not laddering intensively anymore (I got to #9 on the Leaderboard), here it is.
Kyogre@Leftovers
Modest (+SpAttk, -Attk)
252 Hp, 36 Spe, 220 SpAttk
Calm Mind
Surf
Ice Beam
Substitute

coupled with

Latias@Soul Dew (Really, what else would it hold?)
Calm (+SpDef, -Attk*) Edit: Yes, it is -Attk, don't know what I was thinking
252 Hp, 252 Def, 4 SpAttk
Draco Meteor
Reflect
Light Screen
Healing Wish

The magic of this is that, in my experience, after Kyogre takes out Palkia (by subbing on the switch, Calm Minding as the sub is broken, and 2HKO'ing Palkia, which it can no longer do to you) the opponents really can't deal with a Sub-CM Kyogre anymore. However, it is left at around 30-40% HP, and is more or less neutered. But with Dual Screens and full health (and no status if Palkia manged to Paralyze you with Thunder), few teans are capable of standing up to Kyogre again. Some of you may wonder why Soul Dew is on Latias instead of Light Clay, but Kyogre doesn't need Dual Screens for that long, and Soul Dew makes Draco Meteor hit a lot harder, and makes Latias incredibly hard to kill. With Dual Screens and 101 Subs, few things can stand in the way of a Kyogre with even one Calm Mind, which it will most certainly get.

If you've actually read to here, I salute you.

I like this concept alot. =]

It's nice to see people still being creative.

 

[tripe]

The ubers metagame is what I like to consider the revenge metagame, because of the duration I was actually laddering, I found myself revenge killing over 50% of the time. I won more through revenge kills than actual sweeps, although the occasional sweep with scarf Palkia's spacial rend was entertaing to see.

 

[mtr]

I don't switch much in general.

Yeah, switching in Ubers is about as costly as it is in Doubles, from what I've heard of Doubles. Generally, in a metagame where there's as much offensive power as there is in Ubers (and there will be in standard if Garchomp+Skymin+Latios come in), revenging is key.

 

[Private Piplup]

Scarf revenging is dangerous. Wobbuffet. If a Stall team, or any team for that matter, loses its revenge killer, Sub-Plotting Darkrai has a much easier time sweeping. However, not switching is just as dangerous, as if you can't do much to your opponent's Pokemon, that's just inviting a sweep. Case in point: With the Kyogre set mentioned above, Blissey often switches in. Then, seeing my leftovers, they status, which is blocked by my Sub. Then, they Seismic Toss as I Calm Mind. Then, after knowing that the sub DOESN'T break after a single Seismic toss, they keep their Blissey in. Usually in that situation, I can get 4 Calm Minds, and I get to keep a sub. That's basically gg, because even if you revenge it, which is hard to do, at least 2 Pokemon are down, and then the clean-upper just has a field day. Switching isn't fun, but it's necessary.

 

[Anachronism]

Scarfers are very interesting in the metagame, as teams are quite dependent on them to revenge kill and check threats, yet so many teams use Wobbuffethat that scarfers are sort of useless unless they hit with a move wobb is weak to. At the same time, teams are also very dependent on revenging scarfers with wobb, so teams with multiple scarfers could also work. I think people should just use wobb and make sure nothing can be set up on (ie no choice items) and can at least 3hko wobb. This makes both your opponents wobb and their scarfer useless. Considering that a lot of teams also use a suicide deoxys s lead, this strategy eliminates half of the opponents team with little effort. If you do this, then you can use multiple pokes with naturally high speed stats to get more free kills.

 

[zzzzzzzzzzz]

I've seen someone using this as a lead:

Tentacruel @Lum Berry(?)
-Toxic Spikes
-Rapid Spin
-Surf(?)
-??

-vs Deoxys-A: they usually don't carry a SE attack against Tenta and with some def evs it can take two extremespeeds
vs Darkrai: lum berry can heal the sleep so tenta can get a layer
-vs Deoxys-S: damage with Surf, spin everything etc
-vs others: give it focus sash instead of berry and laugh as you get a layer

-100 base speed mean that it can come in later and spin the rocks

etc

 

[locopoke]

I've seen someone using this as a lead:

Tentacruel @Lum Berry(?)
-Toxic Spikes
-Rapid Spin
-Surf(?)
-??

-vs Deoxys-A: they usually don't carry a SE attack against Tenta and with some def evs it can take two extremespeeds
vs Darkrai: lum berry can heal the sleep so tenta can get a layer
-vs Deoxys-S: damage with Surf, spin everything etc
-vs others: give it focus sash instead of berry and laugh as you get a layer

-100 base speed mean that it can come in later and spin the rocks

etc

You keep talking about "getting a layer" but if he is only able to get one layer down then I don't see any reason to use Tentacruel over Forretress. Many Pokemon with Rapid Spin work as a lead in ubers, I've even used Armaldo in the past, but I really don't think anybody should be using a Tentacruel lead. Also, you say:

-vs others: give it focus sash instead of berry and laugh as you get a layer

How do you know what your opponent leads with? How will you know to give it Focus Sash instead of Lum Berry? Also, again, "getting a layer" doesn't mean it's a good lead. Many Pokemon can "get a layer".

- 100 base speed mean that it can come in later and spin the rocks

You mention Tentacruel's 100 base speed but you also mentioning EVing him to take 2 extreme speeds from Deoxys-A, so I'm assuming you're going to be investing EVs in HP and defense. With that being said, I don't think you're going to be able to invest enough in speed to outrun any commonly used mons.