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The Uber Metagame: a Fun "Change of Pace"
- Thread starter Kir
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Well then good golly gosh it MUST be good! Because I can say I went 14-0 using it too, even if for every 14 battles it did nothing.
Well if it did nothing those 14 wins, that proves that Tentacruel isn't that viable. Kyogre, a common lead will destroy with Thunder and Groudon will kill the squid with earthquake, especially since you're likely slow than they are and a surf isn't doing much to Groudon, especially with that sun up.
Tentacruel will likely never be viable in Ubers, but testing out things in Ubers is basically Theorymon's job. To be honest though, I don't see why Ludicolo isn't used more in Ubers. With it's almost comical ability to stall out Kyogre without Rest, and a bunch of other things (such as Palkia) that pose threats to stall teams. I once stalled out a Groudon without Stone Edge. Ludicolo is actually quite hard to take down given its ability, Leech Seed, and Typing. No commonly used moves in Ubers hits it Super-effectively, and it has an awesome 4x resist to water. I'd use it, but I primarily run offense, but on the few stall teams I've used, Ludicolo often does better against Kyogre than either Palkia or Latias.
Yea I completely agree with private. Ludicolo is such an annoying poke to face and even more when wobb is gone. The fact that its weaknesses are almost never seen in ubers (bug a little I guess) make it hard to completely irradicate. Much like ludicolo I also am suprised to why people dont use jumpluff more with groudon. In the sun, its speed is astronomical allowing to essentially have the fastest encore in ubers. Combine that with sleep powder, sub, and leech seed and you have an almost never ending subseed palooza. Its fun to bring it in on darkrais, kyogres, etc that think they can set up only to be encored. Ofcourse jump needs his sun to be effective but if you can get rid of ogre you can abuse him and annoy the hell out of your opponent. Combined with entry hazards, you can continually wear down the opponent as they switch out their encored leech seed bait.
I'd like to point you in the direction of two Ubers RMTs in the Archive.
I've recently got into Ubers, and I've noticed that SpecsOgre is such a threat that people forget other Kyogre sets and immediatley got to Latias/Palkia to take the hit. I abuse this fact by using The Versatility set in the section and having Thunder Wave in the last slot. Palkia and Latias won't be doing much paralyzed, will they?
I've recently got into Ubers, and I've noticed that SpecsOgre is such a threat that people forget other Kyogre sets and immediatley got to Latias/Palkia to take the hit. I abuse this fact by using The Versatility set in the section and having Thunder Wave in the last slot. Palkia and Latias won't be doing much paralyzed, will they?
TBH it would seem like a waste of moveslot, especially on a Specs set. I mean Thunder has a fairly decent chance of paralysis already, not to mention it has that monstrous 120 base power to boot which will by the way do plenty of damage to palkia. Also if you predict Latias on the switch and Ice Beam Latias won't be sticking around much longer anyways.
I wasn't talking about the Specs set. And I mentioned Thunder Wave because it not only makes Kyogre's sweep much easier it makes other sweepers(Dialga and your own Palkia for example) jobs much easier because it protects you from being revenge killed/walled by them and it makes the recipatant easier to wall.
I now Palkia and Dialga were pretty poor examples, but I can't think of anything else.
Once, I tried a double sub-seeding team, with Groudon, Kyogre, Ludicolo, and Jumpbluff. The team didn't do too well due to Taunt and U-turn, but when I did win, it was pretty epic. (Fun Fact-Even Jumpbluff can stall out a Kyogre) It was the closest thing to trolling I've ever done in-battle, and although it didn't do too well (it was okay, I guess), but it was just so funny to imagine their faces. One guy even cussed me out. I think with Wobbuffet it would've done better. I think I'm gonna revisit that team. You would be surprised at what a Ludicolo can stall out in rain.
After seeing it in a warstory, I have been using this lead-and it works great.
Mew @ Lum
Evs: Forget, no shoddy on this computer lol
Taunt
U-turn
Stealth Rock
Explosion.
Although I actually save him for mid-game. Bring him in on something bulky like groudon, taunt to shut them down, stealth rock on the switch, retreat, repeat for as long as you want u-turning on the switch instead of stealth rock, until late game, when you go boom. great momentum poke.
Mew @ Lum
Evs: Forget, no shoddy on this computer lol
Taunt
U-turn
Stealth Rock
Explosion.
Although I actually save him for mid-game. Bring him in on something bulky like groudon, taunt to shut them down, stealth rock on the switch, retreat, repeat for as long as you want u-turning on the switch instead of stealth rock, until late game, when you go boom. great momentum poke.
Actually, that's not his LeadMew - it's mine, as is the team he may have been using with it when you watched him. I've been using LeadMew for a while now on a team that currently has me at 2nd on the leaderboard (who is Low Echeleon and how did he get an 1875 rating?!), and let me tell you, it is without a doubt one of the best leads in Ubers. The nature is Jolly and the EVs are 252 HP/222 Spe/36 Atk, with the item and moves as you described. It does a great job of putting the momentum on your side right from the start of the battle, which can often be crucial in this incredibly fast-paced metagame. Against faster leads like Deoxys-S and Darkrai, you just U-turn away the first time and come back in later to get rocks up and explode. However, in rematches where the opponent knows that Mew has U-turn and a Lum Berry, you can Taunt Deoxys-S after it sets up Stealth Rock or go straight to a Dark Pulse resist against Darkrai. It's amazingly versatile, and it's even more effective because no one expects it at all. Look for it to be featured in a warstory that I hope to post fairly soon!
I have found while laddering that the Uber metagame is still dynamic at this point in time, which is good because it shows that not everything has been exploited yet. (I hope to change that in the case of LeadMew!) Since everyone has a pre-conditioned response to each Pokémon based on its most common set (specs for Kyogre, scarf for Palkia, etc.), using sets that are less common can be devastating to people who are laddering on autopilot, especially stall players.
I believe we have already discussed the lead Mew set.
low echelon or w/e is eo ut mortus i think
i think he got to whatever rating by accident, the rating system glitched or something, a la locopoke or some other randoms
tentacruel lead was started by a guy named sulphur or stvn or whatever he went by at the time
matter of fact, all these "new ideas" were used by someone else at an earlier point in time, i guaruntee it
theorymon didnt exactly "start" wobbuffet, he was just the first to use it on the ladder A LOT
that is all
i think he got to whatever rating by accident, the rating system glitched or something, a la locopoke or some other randoms
tentacruel lead was started by a guy named sulphur or stvn or whatever he went by at the time
matter of fact, all these "new ideas" were used by someone else at an earlier point in time, i guaruntee it
theorymon didnt exactly "start" wobbuffet, he was just the first to use it on the ladder A LOT
that is all
Or Theorymon was the first on the ladder to use it WELL. I'm not too familiar with the metagame before Wobby, but it seems that before, people would use Wobby solely to check scarfers and beat down threats rather than using Encore to create that critical one turn with which someone could wreck havoc on the opponent.
a 6 year old with 2 fingers missing on his mouse hand can use wobb WELL
theorymon was the first to use it in great volume
i remember, before theorymon, i dont know when he came on exactly but this was back in my last laddering run, so dec 08, there was this one guy who had a wobbuffet on his team. it killed my scarf dialga but i still won so i was like, i dont need to make any adjustments, nobody else used wobbuffet
then there came a time where every single time i got matched up vs theorymon(because he was on so much), i had to face a wobbuffet (because none of his teams has failed to pack one) so I actually had to adjust to avoid being laughed at by wobbuffet
so i havent used a scarfer since because it will jsut get picked off by wobbuffet, instead i use teams where speed isnt all that important, like not letting their main speed booster (Rayquaza) setup, having a Kyogre for Darkrai, if darkrai starts to pack thunder i add a mewtwo to stop darkrai, use Kyogre/mix Palkia and other things to check mewtwo, etc.
yeah wobb is relatively easy to use, but trying to pick a move against setup sweepers or possible mixed attackers is a little difficult sometimes. Generally spamming encore does it. I also see a lot of people that don't use their free turns with him well. Rarely if ever do I see someone staying in for a couple turns for leftovers recovery after encoring an sd/cm.
I agree that it is best to just make sure that things don't set up on you rather than pack a scarfer. I use a team with pretty much all of the fastest viable sweepers (+ kyogre of course) which means that i will end up outspeeding most of their team after getting the free kill on their scarfer, and probably also get a free kill on their confused wob. my whole team presents problems for it, and it almost always picks encore because everything has cm/nasty plot. The irony is that I am almost completely forced to use a move that hits setup sweepers hard, usually a stab move, simply because letting dd ray setup is gg.
I agree that it is best to just make sure that things don't set up on you rather than pack a scarfer. I use a team with pretty much all of the fastest viable sweepers (+ kyogre of course) which means that i will end up outspeeding most of their team after getting the free kill on their scarfer, and probably also get a free kill on their confused wob. my whole team presents problems for it, and it almost always picks encore because everything has cm/nasty plot. The irony is that I am almost completely forced to use a move that hits setup sweepers hard, usually a stab move, simply because letting dd ray setup is gg.
Dude, sometimes i use my free turns but no more but 2 because I don`t want to risk a short encore.
Flyingsolo:
What are you trying to prove here? Does it matter who starts things?
Out of nowhere you decided to mention Wobbuffet, and judging from your past posts this post subtly carries that grudge (Why on earth did you mention Wobbuffet in the first place?). Then afterwards you made a whole post dedicating to the stupidity of Wobbuffet (which again, is fairly subtle, but there's a negative tone when you said you have to change the team quite a bit just because this thing exists, as if it some kind of virus or whatever...you get the point!). Just accept that Wobbuffet is there (I had to accept the Baton Pass team too you know, and once you do things become a whole lot easier!) and drop the grudge. It's not going to do you and anyone around you any favors.
This thread is supposed to be about strategies in the Uber metagame. You recent posts do not contribute to the thread at all, but were rather designed to bash Wobbuffet, and subtly, Theorymon. Consider this post as your official warning.
Yea I guess ludicolo would work but I like quagsire as well because it can toxic, yawn, or encore to screw over opponents. also, water absorb is even better than 4xresist and some opponents don't remember that it has water absorb.
Also, once I played a noob and my honchkrow lead took out his deoxys - e, garchomp, groudon, and kingdra without switching once
Same here. I have seen a lot of noobs who don't switch out when I bring Darkrai in allowing me to set up a sub and multiple nasty plots. Don't do that people (unless you have Gyro Ball, which is not recommended as Forry requires max attack and +nature to have cca 90% chances to do min 25% to Gira with GB.). +4 Darkrai with 20% flinch rate and 80% accurate sleep is godly.
no one who knows how to play does that. People on smogon generally speaking are decent battlers and only very new people will ever do the above.
The key with wobbofet is to just attack it. using a stat up or status move is just asking for a free switch in. at least if you use dragon pulse (random move) against wobb and it gets encored you KNOW a rayquaza cant come in and set up
The key with wobbofet is to just attack it. using a stat up or status move is just asking for a free switch in. at least if you use dragon pulse (random move) against wobb and it gets encored you KNOW a rayquaza cant come in and set up
I'm the guy that started this thread and hasn't posted much in it since, but that doesn't mean I've stopped playing ubers or stopped watching this thread, lol :)
I'm posting to say that Substitute + Torment + Protect Heatran (like Philip7086's set for OU) is definitely workable in ubers. Choiced Kyogre, Palkia, etc do not enjoy facing this set. For more information on the set itself, here is what Philip said:
Forretress or Deoxys-e support is needed to make this worthwhile. Your thoughts?
btw, the title for this was intended to be "The Uber Metagame: a Fun Change of Pace" with the regular colon in place of the semi-colon. If someone could fix this, that'd be great, if it's not too much of a hassle. It's not a big deal though...
I'm posting to say that Substitute + Torment + Protect Heatran (like Philip7086's set for OU) is definitely workable in ubers. Choiced Kyogre, Palkia, etc do not enjoy facing this set. For more information on the set itself, here is what Philip said:
Forretress or Deoxys-e support is needed to make this worthwhile. Your thoughts?
btw, the title for this was intended to be "The Uber Metagame: a Fun Change of Pace" with the regular colon in place of the semi-colon. If someone could fix this, that'd be great, if it's not too much of a hassle. It's not a big deal though...
That's just asking for wobbufett to kill you, by spamming a random move, that's why I consider wobbuffett the best revenge killer in ubers.
Wobbuffet, a touchy subject. I personally don't use it, but that's because I'm bad at predicting what my opponent will do heads up. Revenging Scarfers seems pointless to me, as you might as well take the turn to send in something to set up with, eliminating the need for a Wobbuffet. I will admit that Wobbuffet has a rather interesting niche in the Metagame, with its ridiculously concise moveset. 8 moves, but what else could you ask for?
On the subject of Ludicolo/Quagsire, I would have to say that Ludicolo is superior in my opinion, as Quagsire can only wall Kyogre. Palkia's Spacial Rend 2hko's, and nothing else commonly carries Water moves. However, in rain, Ludicolo gets 25%+ Hp each turn (assuming Leech Seed) and with Protect abuse, Ludicolo is a mighty annoying opponent. However, the best way to deal with both Wobbuffet and Ludicolo is simply to Taunt them.
I could go on about the virtues and awesomeness of Taunt and other seemingly useless moves such as Substitute, but I'll save that for later.
On the subject of Ludicolo/Quagsire, I would have to say that Ludicolo is superior in my opinion, as Quagsire can only wall Kyogre. Palkia's Spacial Rend 2hko's, and nothing else commonly carries Water moves. However, in rain, Ludicolo gets 25%+ Hp each turn (assuming Leech Seed) and with Protect abuse, Ludicolo is a mighty annoying opponent. However, the best way to deal with both Wobbuffet and Ludicolo is simply to Taunt them.
I could go on about the virtues and awesomeness of Taunt and other seemingly useless moves such as Substitute, but I'll save that for later.
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