Aggron: No longer the retarded child of Rhydon and Registeel

Exorcist said:
Aggron in OU? Yeah I know, it's trite saying that he cannot be OU, but think about it. Remember when Relicanth got Head Smash in Platinum and there were so much hype about it? Now he's listed as NU in Smogon which goes to show that you can have 225 base power moves but still fail if you have bad stats and typing.

Relicanth actually works fine in OU too, but that's beside the point (he actually got Head Smash in DP btw). Relicanth isn't used very much in OU because he has weaknesses to common attacking types while only really having a resist to Fire, Ice, and Flying. This means that his amount of resists isn't compensating for his amount of weaknesses. Also, he's not immune to Toxic Spikes like Aggron, or resistant to Stealth Rock. Aggron also has a million resistances to come in on and set up with.

Also, there was next to no hype for Relicanth as far as I remember.

Relicanth and Aggron don't differ much in stats and movepool BTW. Aggron has 20 BP more attack, but that doesn't matter much considering that it's that 225 move power that's factored in more into the calculations, and the 20 more BP Aggron has only make a slight difference. Plus, Relicanth has a better typing (4x weak to grass as opposed to 4x weak to fighting and ground), better HP (with the same SpD, thus taking special hits better), and 5 point better speed (which actually makes a huge difference). And Relicanth also knows EQ, Aqua Tail (but STABed, thus better), and Rock Polish.

I don't think you've run their attack through a damage calculator. If you had, you'd see that the 20 high base Attack for Aggron makes a ridiculous difference. For instace, on an imaginary pokemon with 300 HP and 300 Defense, let's look at damage with the CB sets:

Relicanth:

459 Atk vs 300 Def & 300 HP (150 Base Power): 246 - 291 (82.00% - 97.00%)

Aggron:

525 Atk vs 300 Def & 300 HP (150 Base Power): 282 - 333 (94.00% - 111.00%)

When a pokemon is relying an extremely high BP to do good damage, each Attack point makes a huge difference, which is why there's such a large difference from only 20 base Attack.

Aggron knows Earthquake too, so I don't know why you mentioned that.

Also, when you look at a typing, you seriously shouldn't just look at weaknesses, because that's only seeing half the picture. Resistances are extremely important, especially for something like Aggron, which only needs 1 turn to come in on a resist to severely hurt something, or to setup a sweep. In addition, Aggron can compensate for the Water weakness with SS support, and Magnet Rise is rather popular, so even though his typing suggests it, his weaknesses aren't quite as easy to exploit as they look.

So yeah, I don't see how this situation of "Aggron is OU" any different than in Platinum when Relicanth was hyped because of getting Head Smash.

Hell, I wish Relicanth was OU, since he's great there, but as it stands, people are too scared to use him because his typing offers like no resistances (though it's one of the best offensive combos in the game), PS. his special defense is 5 higher than Aggron's :]
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Witness315 said:
EDIT: Ok, this is important. When using Substitute/Leichi Aggron, it is critical that you do NOT have any EV's in HP, and have an IV of 30 for HP. If you run 4 EV's in HP, you will have an HP stat that is not divisible by four, so the new EV spread is this:

252 Atk/4 SpD/252 Speed
30 HP

Thank you!
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I've been running this variant on the SubLiechi set:
Anesthesic (Aggron) (M) @ Liechi Berry
Ability: Rock Head
EVs: 76 HP/216 Atk/216 Spd
Jolly nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Rock Polish
- Substitute
- Head Smash
- Earthquake
---

The Speed EVs ensure that after a Rock Polish, you will outspeed ScarfTran at 418 Speed. This is an EXTREMELY important number to reach, as Earth Power will certainly OHKO you with no HP investment, halting your sweep. The HP EVs I implemented prevent any and all +1 Extremespeeds from ever breaking your Substitute. If the opponent is at +2 or higher, odds are they aren't stopping to use Extremespeed. This set still sports enough power to pack a serious punch, OHKOing 252/0 Tyranitar after SR damage. It's not the 252 Adamant set, but I find this to be much safer to use as a potential late-game sweeper.

For reference, I use this set with Stockpile Hippowdon, using a custom set of EVs that allow Hippo to survive all Mixmence's Draco Meteors and use Stockpile to put her out of a second Meteor's KO range.
 
Rock/Steel is superior to Rock/Water here. Rock/Water is superior offensive STAB in most cases, but that's a moot point with Head Smash being just stupidly powerful. As mentioned, it's all about the resistances.

A big benefit for Aggron is Magnet Rise, which reduces its amount of weaknesses to 2 (though one is still 4x). His resistances in general are also nice, and immunity to Toxic and Toxic Spikes is always nice (especially when running Life Orb). In the case of Magnet Rise, look at all the Pokemon that normally deal with Aggron easily that now can't deal with it after Magnet Rise: Gliscor, Hippowdon, non-SpecsMence, Aerodactyl, Bronzong, Flygon, Mamoswine, Metagross, Rhyperior, Tyranitar. Out of those, only Bronzong isn't dealt with in some way, as the rest can be OHKO/2HKO'd by Head Smash/Earthquake and/or dealt with by Toxic.

The 20 Base Atk is actually a lot more beneficial than you think; it provides some nice, reliable OHKO/2HKOs that Relicanth can't pull if it's running the Rock Polish set, Scizor and Heatran being two that are reliably OHKO'd by LO Aggron, but not by LO Relicanth.

Move pool wise, Aggron wins pretty easily with access to the Elemental Punches, Endeavor, and Magnet Rise.

Basically, Aggron has a lot of things working for it that can bring it to OU: the "horrible" typing that provides some nice benefits, the higher Base Atk giving it the extra oompf to OHKO/2HKO more stuff (and reliably!), more moves to take advantage of; he can actually do it. The only thing he needs now is usage.

On that note, if Aggron reaches OU, I'm inclined to believe the RP+3 attacks set will be the most used on, as it's an excellent late-game sweeper. I expect CB to be second most used, just for sure power, though I still find the Magnet Rising sets a bit more practical in OU.
 
didn't read first 78 posts etc etc

highly doubt aggron becomes ou. and even if it does, i dont see where it'll set up with 2 of the most popular 4x weaknesses. it probably gets shut down in uu as it is but i haven't bothered to play in while so consider this my speculation etc
 
Yes, Aggron has common weaknesses but some useful resistances is well.
There is this certain move that he resists with his typing and base 180 defence, which forces the user to stay in and keep using it.
There is this other resisted move that gets drastically weaker as it is used and which is often choiced.
Aggron will not be able to come in if everything is packing fighting, ground and water attacks but any Pokemon can be dead-weight against the wrong team.
 
Wow, I'm using a dysfunctional team of random pokes I wanted to test and so far Aggron is the standout by far. Rock Polishing against CB Scizor who has just bullet punched your Mismagius and proceeding to sweep the opponents remaining team? Priceless.
 
Exorcist said:
Aggron in OU? Yeah I know, it's trite saying that he cannot be OU, but think about it. Remember when Relicanth got Head Smash in Platinum and there were so much hype about it? Now he's listed as NU in Smogon which goes to show that you can have 225 base power moves but still fail if you have bad stats and typing.

Relicanth and Aggron don't differ much in stats and movepool BTW. Aggron has 20 BP more attack, but that doesn't matter much considering that it's that 225 move power that's factored in more into the calculations, and the 20 more BP Aggron has only make a slight difference. Plus, Relicanth has a better typing (4x weak to grass as opposed to 4x weak to fighting and ground), better HP (with the same SpD, thus taking special hits better), and 5 point better speed (which actually makes a huge difference). And Relicanth also knows EQ, Aqua Tail (but STABed, thus better), and Rock Polish.

So yeah, I don't see how this situation of "Aggron is OU" any different than in Platinum when Relicanth was hyped because of getting Head Smash.
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Relicanth does NOT have better resistances than AGGRON esp in OU environment. Besides 4 times resistance to grass is not TOO useful in OU as you make it sound like. Aggron vs. relicanth is ridiculous. Aggron's resistances are MUCH better. Relicanth's attack is not just "20" lower, it is much lower than that of aggron. If you are considering HS as a "OHKO HOLY SHITTTTT" attack then you should know that 20 is a HUGE difference.
 
Anyone tried Aggron with a scarf? I just had a battle where a Rotom tricked one onto it, and I wondered if that would actually be viable. Thoughts?
 
deluge said:
Yes, Aggron has common weaknesses but some useful resistances is well.
There is this certain move that he resists with his typing and base 180 defence, which forces the user to stay in and keep using it.
There is this other resisted move that gets drastically weaker as it is used and which is often choiced.
Aggron will not be able to come in if everything is packing fighting, ground and water attacks but any Pokemon can be dead-weight against the wrong team.
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Things that are so much better than Aggron can avoid being dead weight in so many more situations, however. For example, Metagross.
 
Lord Jesseus said:
Anyone tried Aggron with a scarf? I just had a battle where a Rotom tricked one onto it, and I wondered if that would actually be viable. Thoughts?
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The problem is, Scarfed Aggron just isn't fast enough. Even at Jolly, his speed caps off at 327. Jolly base 100s can run 328 speed. Choice Scarves are best for revenging other fast Pokemon and potentially sweeping a team. Aggron cannot do this due to low base speed. You're better off simply taking advantage of his typing to get free switch-ins, and then either setting up Sub/RP/MagnetRise/Some Combination Thereof or just firing off a super-deadly Head Smash at whatever switches in.
 
I don't understand why people are ripping on aggron because of his ground/fighting weaknesses.
Loads of pokemon are weak to em but they don't have monster defense to have a fighting chance of living through some of them.

EDIT: Going back a few pages to the celebi set named little buddy, that's the official name for the combo of aggron and celebi from here on.
Hell, let's call aggron big dog so we then have Big Dog and Little Buddy.
 
Lets' see how Aggrons' 3 weaknesses are put to good use (Will add more Later)

Latias: Resists Water, and Fighting. Immune to Ground. Weak to Ghost, Dragon, Ice, Dark, and Bug. Aggron resists ALL 5 of them. Also lures CBTar, who can spell GG when you send in a Rock Polish SubGron on it. Aggron gives Latias the chance to switch in, and Recover/Calm Mind. The amount of times I win because Latias brought out CB Tar, or Aggron gave Latias a free switch in and set-up, are amazeing.

Salamance: Resists Water and Fighting. Immune to Ground. Weak to Ice, Dragon and Rock. Aggron resists all three. Perfect coverage. Gives Salamance the chance to DD

Gyarados: Resists Water, Fighting, and is immune to Ground. Weak to Electric, and Rock. Aggron resists Rock, but, unfortunetly, not Electric.

Rotom: Immune to Fighting and Ground. Beats water types not called Swampert anyday. Weak to Ghost and Dark, which Aggron resists. Lures CBTar.

Anyone notice that they are some of the most used pokemon in OU?
 
jumpluff said:
Things that are so much better than Aggron can avoid being dead weight in so many more situations, however. For example, Metagross.
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CB Metagross doesn't hit nearly as hard. even explosion has trouble breaking the walls that HS breaks

example, explosion vs standard Skarmory:
40.72% - 47.9%

HS on the same Skarmory:
64.07% - 75.45%

now sure, Skarmory resists explosion, and Explosion does about 20% more on neutral targets, but HS has better doesn't ko you and has a great attacking type. ThunderPunch, Metagrosses main answer for skarmory, doesn't do as much as HS

Meteor Mash doesn't come near Head Smash damage, so no, not much comes close to Aggron as a CB wallbreaker.

I can vouch for the CB, SubRise and RP sets as being competitively viable, not sure on some of the crazy sets (SubLeichi and the specially defensive sets look pretty iffy), but those three can all work
 
you know you could just use magnezone to deal with skarmory. aggron just requires way too much support to actually function well. jumpluff is correct. aggron is just hype.
 
Thorns said:
you know you could just use magnezone to deal with skarmory. aggron just requires way too much support to actually function well. jumpluff is correct. aggron is just hype.
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yes, metagross needs another pokemon to break a common wall on his set designed to break walls, and aggron is the one that needs too much support, excellent point.

but wait, magnezone is 4x weak to ground, NOES it must be unviable.

Having one pokemon to cover all your weaknesses (and in turn you cover all of that pokemons weaknesses) is not too much support buddy.

fun fact, any fighting attack aimed at aggron will only do 10% more than it would do to magnezone, so basically anything that kos gron kos magnezone. and gron runs more speed than magnezone on average. plus, they both do the same job, come in on a choice locked attack or a wall and ko it, only gron isn't limited to steels. but Gron doesn't have that pesky fire weakness
 
itsbigfoot said:
CB Metagross doesn't hit nearly as hard. even explosion has trouble breaking the walls that HS breaks

example, explosion vs standard Skarmory:
40.72% - 47.9%

HS on the same Skarmory:
64.07% - 75.45%
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Actually Explosion does 82.04% - 96.41% from CB Metagross to standard Skarmory. From here, 'Faints the user. Damage is calculated as though the defender has half of its Defense.'

The advantages Metagross gives (Fight neutrality, 2x better than Aggron at taking Ground moves resistance-wise, a better movepool including but not limited to Trick / Explosion, better all-round stats) makes it a better candidate than Aggron defensively by far, while still offering very powerful offensive moves.

Aggron does have a great STAB in Rock, but I personally think a CB Rhyperior could do the job better. It has much better HP, two really useful STABs instead of one, Solid Rock, Fire resist, etc. Stone Edge has a high critical hit rate and the same accuracy as Head Smash, and it isn't too far off of Aggron's power. There's also regular CB Tyranitar if you want something a little faster, which also has a great Dark STAB and Pursuit.

Aggron does have some slight advantages (a really strong Rock move, Steel typing, and the Sandstorm boost) and may have a niche purpose (faster than min speed Skarmory and Scizor if EVed correctly, not Steel weak in a metagame full of Scizor, fairly unique set of resistances and weaknesses as far as Rock-type sweepers go) in some teams, but I think that for most teams there are Pokemon better suited to whatever purpose Aggron is being used for.
 
Yes Aggron does have a lot of power, but as it gets more popular, so will the things that stop it. Swampert is one of the top pokémon already, and aggron can't really hurt it that bad. Scarfgon will be popular too, as RP Aggron doesn't get anywhere near it's speed. Vacuum Wave and Mach Punch can be run by a few pokes especially Infernape and Lucario. I don't think Aggron will really be OU, especially once the hype wears off.
 
Speaking of Vaccum Wave, I've been seeing it on EVERY SINGLE Infernape I've faced. Is it because they are scared of Aggron?

Aggron is a great asset to teams running DDMance or CM Latias, because Aggron coveres their weaknesses so well, and both pokemon can benifit from the switch-ins the other creates, to set up. Although I'm yet to test Aggron + DDMance/Nite, I imagine that it'll be less effective compared to CM Latias, simply because of them both being physical.

That said, between an Aggron with Rock Polish, Head Smash, Sub, and Earthquake, and a Salamance/Dragonite, most pokemon can manage to be hit for Neutral at least, so even walls will crumble eventually.

Aggron is also THE counter to CB T-Tar, when it uses anything but Earthquake. It benifits from the sand, gets a free Sub, and Rock Polish, and then sweeps. CB Scizor locked into Persuit is similar set-up bait.

Anyone tried Aggron with Para support? I imagine it would work well there, with a SubPunch + Rock Head + Earthquake set, considering it would actually outspeed things then.

Aggron will make UU at least, and I could see it slipping into Low OU, if only because Aggron > Rhyperior now (And Ryhperior is teetering on the edge) It'll never dislodge Scizor, but in terms of spaces jumped by a single move, it's Number 1.
 
I laughed at the idea of Aggron being OU, too, before I used it.
And wow, has my viewpoint changed.

Aggron can tear through stall with a Sub-Rock Polish Set, and I added a Celebi onto my team, and gave it Sub and Swords Dance, along with Seed Bomb and Zen Headbutt, Celebi would pass a 101HP Sub to Aggron, along with a Swords Dance, and depending on the team, I would change between the attacking moves, and switch Baton Pass into it's moveset; and Aggron would get time to rock polish, taking 30% from Scizor's Bullet Punch, then would go on to OHKO the whole team. I only switched since a miss under the ability Pressure ruined my PP.
 
I'd like to say that on the RP set, Magnet Rise should be an option over Aqua Tail/Ice Punch/Fire Punch, since in conjuction with Toxic Spikes, it prevents Aggron from having his sweep stopped by a Hippowdon and revenged by Scarfers with a Ground move like ScarfTran.

Man, I sure do like Magnet Rise.
 
fmsYEAH said:
I'd like to say that on the RP set, Magnet Rise should be an option over Aqua Tail/Ice Punch/Fire Punch, since in conjuction with Toxic Spikes, it prevents Aggron from having his sweep stopped by a Hippowdon and revenged by Scarfers with a Ground move like ScarfTran.

Man, I sure do like Magnet Rise.
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Agreed, any Hippowdon will lose immediately(although it can Roar), and Swampert will generally go for the EQ first(so you can get two-three turns of poison, assuming you Rock Polish on switch, Magnet Rise, then switch).
 
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