Stall Ain't Got Nothin', an OU RMT

[Oddish On Fire]

OU: "It Can Bulky"

Description: I built this team after getting sick of losing to stall teams, so I loaded my team with potential stall breakers like Taunt Gliscor and Tyraniboah. As my team progressed and members changed, it became more of a resistance based bulky offense, that could destroy stall if needed.

I first started with Starmie, one of the games best rapid spinners. It came packaged with one of the fastest recovers, a great stab surf, and thunderbolt.

From there, I added a taunt Gliscor and a Tyraniboah to combat stall further

As a premise, I knew I needed a Dragon type and a Steel type, as their resistances make synergy fairly easy and make switching a breeze. So I chose CB Scizor and LO Latias for their defensive capabilities, yet wonderful offensive stats.

As a final way to balance out physical and special, I ended up chosing Specs Jolteon, as the rest of my team could easily help Jolteon come in and sweep late game. It's high speed and SpA made it one of the most threatening special sweepers in my mind.

After SevenDeadlySins checked out my team, he decided that a Lucario would better fit the needs of my team and make a more offensive outlook. He suggested that I switched out Scizor for it.

Realizing that I had once again made a team that was completely incapacitated by Salamence and Gyarados, I knew I had to find a way to patch up my holes, and I wanted to keep my Latias scarf free, so I changed my Lucario to a Scarf Jirachi.

This team worked EXTREMELY well so I decided to create an RMT so I could see if it could be improved. It certainly did. So after plently of help, I ended up with this;

"It Can Bulky"

At a glance

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Starstruck

Starmie @ Life Orb
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 4 HP/252 Spd/252 SAtk
Timid nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Surf
- Thunderbolt
- Recover
- Rapid Spin

Why Starmie is My Lead:
Starmie functions GREAT as an anti-lead. It can hit Focus Sash users with Hydro Pump, taking them down to 1HP, and then it can Rapid Spin away their stealth rocks, killing them in the process. This is how Starmie compares to the top 10 leads;

Metagross: 2KO by Surf. Metagross can do nothing but explode in order to kill me, and unless it explodes the first turn, it is fucked. After I kill it, I Rapid Spin on the poke that comes in.

Azelf: Surf breaks Azelf's sash and uses it, giving Azelf a lowly 1 HP, which leaves it in Rapid Spin's kill range, so I rapid spin. Azelf can do nothing in return but SR and then explode, hoping that it wins the speed tie.

Swampert: Swampert is 2KOd by Surf, and whatever fills its' spot I rapid spin on. Swampert can deal some hefty damage with EQ, but it will never kill Starmie due to Recover.

Jirachi: It tricks a scarf onto me and is then 2KOed. Thanks for providing me with a great Gyarados counter, Rachi!

Aerodactyl: Need I say it? Surf activates the sash and then I rapid spin for the KO.

Hippowdon: OHK with Surf. It doesn't even get to lay down SR.

Ninjask: I spam T-bolt so that it can't get a Swords Dance, and then I deal with whatever it passes speed to.

Bronzong: Easy 2-3KO with surf , while it can do nothing in return. Trick Room + Explosion does beat my Starmie, however.

Tyranitar: This one is a bitch to beat. I'm fairly certain that I can 3KO with Surf, but I'm easily KOed by it.

How Starmie Works Late Game:
Starmie's unique ability Natural Cure makes Starmie the best rapid spinner. It can switch into toxic spikes, rapid spin them away, recover, and then switch out, losing the status. Plus, with a life orb, it has enough power to be considered an offensive threat, and when combined with recover, the 10% hardly matters. A stabbed LO Surf is nothing to be laughed at, as most steels suffer badly from it. Thunderbolt provides coverage on some of the games bulky waters. Plus, since a +1 Gyarados cannot OHK it at full health, I can typically use it as a Gyarados counter.

Synergy: Electric Latias or Gliscor. Grass goes to Zapdos, Metagross, or Latias. Bug goes to Gliscor or Zapdos. Both Ghost and Dark go to Tyranitar.

Killowatt

Zapdos (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 248 HP/76 Spd/184 SDef
Timid nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Thunderbolt
- Substitute
- Roost
- Toxic

Why this Pokemon and this moveset?

Why not counter stall with stall? That's exactly what SubRoost Zapdos does. The combination of a stab thunderbolt and toxic provide great coverage. Toxic hits anything that is not steel, and thunderbolt hits that which is. After I toxic a Poke, I then substitute and roost until residual damage KOs them. Zapdos also provides a great check to Scizor, as it resists all of Scizor's stab moves, and can typically 2KO back with thunderbolt. 248 HP EVs ensure that I can switch into SR 5 times without dying, and the rest maximize my Special Defense while still keeping me at speed that most poke's do not run at.

Synergy: Ice goes to Starmie or Metagross. Rock goes to Metagross.

Betagross

Metagross @ Expert Belt
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 252 Atk/132 Spd/124 SAtk
Naughty nature (+Atk, -SDef)
- Meteor Mash
- Earthquake
- Grass Knot
- Hidden Power [Fire]


Why this Pokemon and this moveset?

When I made some significant changes to my team, Jirachi was no longer needed, so I replaced him with a mixed Metagross, as previously I was running a Tyraniboah. This allowed me to scarf my Latias and make my Tyranitar a choice band user, while still being able to significantly break stall. Although this is the standard mixed Metagross set, he has far above standard results. The combination of Meteor Mash and Earthqake provides wonderful coverage, hitting almost anything for neutral, while Grass Knot and HP Fire take most of the counters that switch in against Metagross. Grass Knot OHKs Swampert, with HP Fire OHKing Forretress and 2KOing Skarmory. As an added bonus, Metagross is adept at taking out one of my teams biggest threats, Scizor, with an OHK from HP Fire. I chose Expert Belt over Life Orb in order to add some durability to my Metagross, as without it, dragon type attacks rip my team in half. The given speed EVs let it run 1 higher than most non-scarved Magnezones, but I'm beginning to doubt whether it needs any speed at all, so I'm considering moving the speed to HP. The other EVs just ensure that my attack is maxed out, and that my special attack is high enough to 2KO Skarmory.

Synergy: Ground goes to Zapdos, Latias, or Gliscor. Fire goes to Starmie, Latias, and Tyranitar.

Lady Luck

Latias (F) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 80 HP/176 Spd/252 SAtk
Timid nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Dragon Pulse
- Draco Meteor
- Surf
- Thunderbolt


Why this Pokemon and this moveset?

Before scarving my Latias, I was incredibly open to sweeps from Salamence, so this has essentially solved that problem. With the given speed EVs, I run just above the mark to beat a +1 speed natured Salamence, while still maximizing bulk with 80 HP EVs. The special attack is fairly obvious, as a maxed special attack insures that I will leave massive dents in any pokemon with Draco Meteor, which is my main attack near the beginning. Thunderbolt OHKs Gyarados, as I outun +1 DD Gyarados, and Surf provides coverage on the games bulky ground types, and hits a lot of the meta-game for neutral damage. When it comes to the end game, I use Dragon Pulse to pull off a final sweep. I chose it over trick since my team can easily deal with Blissey and other walls.

Synergy: Dragon goes to Metagross. Ice goes to Metagross or Starmie. Ghost and Dark both go to Tyranitar. Bug goes to Gliscor or Zapdos.

Gargoyle

Gliscor (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Sand Veil
EVs: 252 HP/40 Def/216 Spd
Jolly nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Earthquake
- Roost
- Stealth Rock
- Taunt

Why this Pokemon and this moveset?


Why this set is not used more often will remain a mystery to me. It's ability to break stall is almost unrivaled, and yet it retains the ability to semi-stall itself. Its' stab Earthquake is incredibly powerful, easily OHKing Lucario, who otherwise would dominate my team. Roost and Taunt stop stall teams dead in their tracks by preventing their recovery, status, and entry hazard moves from working, and then slowly chipping away at their health with Earthquake while roosting off any damage. Stealth Rock was a necessity on this set so that constant switching from the opponents side is punished heavily. With a Jolly nature and this set, Gliscor is both a defensive and an offensive threat.

Synergy: Water goes to Starmie or Latias. Ice goes to Metagross or Starmie.

DD Tar

Tyranitar (M) @ Choice Band
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 164 HP/252 Atk/92 Spd
Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Stone Edge
- Crunch
- Pursuit
- Earthquake


Why this Pokemon and this moveset?

Originally this was a Tyraniboah. Due to reworking my team though, this became a choice band Tyranitar, simply for the immense power of his attacks. Against Pokes that can not threaten him, Tyranitar can either choose to attack or use pursuit, leaving the opponent in a very bad situation. Regardless of what they do, they risk a Poke being KOed. Crunch provides a wonderful stab that can easily OHK nearly anything that is weak to it, and can put massive dents in anything that takes a neutral hit. Stone Edge and Earthquake work great in tandem, as I hit anything on the ground with Earthquake, and hit anything flying with my stab Stone Edge. This provides something a lot like a physical bolt-beam. Paired with Crunch, almost nothing can resist Tyranitar's attacks, and I am almost guarunteed a kill everyime T-tar switches is, providing that I predict correctly.

Synergy: Fighting goes to Starmie, Zapdos, Latias, or Gliscor. Water goes to Starmie or Latias. Grass goes to Zapdos Latias, or Metagross. Ground goes to Zapdos, Latias, or Gliscor. Bug goes to Gliscor or Zapdos. Steel goes to Starmie, Zapdos, or Metagross.

Thanks for reading! All help is greatly appreciated.

 

[Setsuna]

Humm.. the team it's pretty weak to Ground and Bug, therefore, CB/Scarf Tyranitar and CB Scizor mainly. But I will comment more about this later.

Jolteon: I will suggest a change here, cause I feel that Jolteon just propiciates you weakness. Instead, I would use:

Zapdos @ Leftovers
Timid nature
EVs: 248 HP / 184 SpD / 76 Spe
- Thunderbolt
- Substitute
- Toxic
- Roost

You mentioned Swampert as someone that gives you a lot of troubles if Jolteon's out of game, and that's exactly what happens. SR + SS + a possible Spikes and withouth Wish passing in your team, Jolteon will not survive too much, that's a fact. Therefore, I suggest this Zapdos or an offensive one. With Toxic you take care of Swampert slowly, and helps you to stall Blissey, CM Suicune, Scarfers as Flygon or Latias that get in to break your Subs, and this is very helpfull for your Tyranitar. Also, you add a Bug and Ground resistance and a good Scizor's counter.

Jirachi: ¿Ice Punch? you only revenge kill DD Dragonite and Naughty DD Salamence after one boost, but the Naive one keeps overspeeding you and OHKOing as well. I see that you need more a fire move to remove SD Scizor for example who otherwise rapes you undoubtedly, it also helps you to finish with SD Luke and Magnezone.
In order to fix this DD dragons weakness, I have a second suggestion for Jolteon's slot:

Porygon2 @ Leftovers
Bold nature.
EVs: 252 HP / 216 Def / 40 SpA
- Ice Beam
- Thunderbolt
- Thunderwave / Toxic
- Recover

Big duck, strong too. Here you're adding a second counter for DD Gyarados and a solid answer to DD Dragonite / Mence without any doubt. Having this poke in your lines you can consider Trick over Thunderpunch on Jirachi to hurt stalls considerably.

Latias: I personally recommend Reflect or Hidden Power [Fire] instead of Thunderwave. You have to worry more about threats like CB Scizor (which is still a huge headache for the team) than for paralyze Scarfers...
Think about something right now, I have suggested two good pkmns that cover pretty well the team, but I haven't found a good way to scape from Scizor and right now your only answer to his U-turn is Gliscor, your primary SD Lucario and Machamp's counter. Each entry you will recieve a 12% plus another 20% of damage (SR + U-turn), then Salamence gets in preventing you from use Roost, and that sucks, believe me, an offensive team carrying MixMence and CB Scizor for example will wreak havoc constantly on your team. With Gliscor down, mid-game wall breakers as Breloom or Machamp will finish the job.
Latias it's goog bait to trap Scizor with HP Fire, so give it a chance ;)

Tyranitar: Let me quote something first: "From there, it uses the combination of Focus Punch and Flamethrower to rip through stall teams, using its' stab crunch only when needed".

Look, the only wall used in stall teams that you OHKO is Forretress, but full SpD Skarmory set the Spikes up in your face, (38.32% - 45.51%) that is the damage you score on him with your weakened Flamethrower.

Then, Scizor only needs 64 Spd EVs to outspeed your Tyranitar and kill him with super-effective moves so you will not be able to take out this either most of the time. Therefore, I suggest a naive nature instead of the Jolly one, or simply do not invest any Spd EVs and use a -Spd nature.

Conclusion: With P2 or Zapdos the sinergy improves, and that's obviously great. But looking at what I said about the DDers I would try Porygon2 instead of Jolteon, and this poke does a better job paralyzing Scarfers than Latias, remember that.

Overall, good team, just remember that Scizor's issue, I think that I suggested enough things to take him down fast.

Hope to have helped.

 

[Oddish On Fire]

I'm testing the Zapados set immediately!

Thanks for the rate, Pain. Also, I'll test reflect over T-wave on Latias, as HP Fire slows me down to much.

 

[Cherub Agent]

If you plan on using Jirachi to revenge kill Salamence, I think you should give him 252 Speed EVs, taking them from HP. I don't see what they do, and it lets you at least tie with a Salamence that has already DDd once.

 

[Setsuna]

If you plan on using Jirachi to revenge kill Salamence, I think you should give him 252 Speed EVs, taking them from HP. I don't see what they do, and it lets you at least tie with a Salamence that has already DDd once.

That's to risk too much, if Salamence wins the tie it will be 6-0 for sure!

Oddish On Fire, try Latias with an smal transformation:

Timid nature.
EVs: 128 HP / 128 SpA / 252 Spd

With HP fire. With this EVs even LO offensive Latias will not OHKO you with Draco Meteor after one CM, and I think that 350 speed just helps you to tie with an oposing Latias and create some pressure, but that does not matter here. First turn you do CM while enemy Latias goes out, she DMors you while you Recover yourself, and that is GG most of the time.

One last nitpick, try P2, will help a lot more.

 

[Oddish On Fire]

Sub-roost Zapados is actually working really damn well for me, stalling out most of my threats.

Also, I'm testing reflect on Latias, and I changed the nature of Tyranitar. I have no idea why it was jolly... Hydro Pump has been changed to Surf on my Starmie, for a higher consistency, as hydro pumps misses have cost me games.

I have tried P2 before, and although it works great, it's useless against teams without Dragon Dancers, and it slows my team down offensively.

 

[akarias]

Try specs raikou or cm+LO raikou (timid ofc). The increased defenses raikou has makes a huge difference with priority running around, and the speed difference isn't the most important thing in the world (can outspeed latias and gengar and still KO). cm+LO raikou really owns if you take out those walls that the rest of your team does, and can still switch out.

Latias is always underwhelming becuase dragon's a shitty special attacking type. Special already has incredible coverage with electric+ice, and so it doesn't need a neutral coverage attack like dragon. All you need is a water attack (suicune) or ghost (raikou). Thus I think suicune would overall be stronger over latias. It would add to this heavy offensive playstyle, consistently taking 2-3 pokes with them. Timid cm+LO suicune

 

[november1093]

So you don't like Jirachi's results. Hm... If I remember correctly Porygon2 has a moveset that is specifically taylored to taking out Gyarados and Salamence as well as other physical threats. It has wonderful bulk and the two don't stand a chance with an intimidate drop.

 

[Oddish On Fire]

After testing, I have decided that Zapdos is indeed much better for my team, as it provides greater synergy and much more bulk than Jolteon.

So, consider this an update!

Also, once again, Porygon2 is a no no, especially if I trade my only steel type for him. That means Dragonite will 6-0 me without any trouble.

 

[E.A.]

I just have one quick comment: you're probably going to want to run Jolly 252/252 on Jirachi. That way you'll at least speed tie with all other Salamence. If you don't kill Mence with Rachi, he's stomping all over this team with no issues.

Might add more later, I have to run right now.

 

[Oddish On Fire]

I just updated it with the changes to Jirachi. You're right. I keep getting swept by Salamence, and currently there is not much I can do :(

All suggestions regarding stopping Salamence will be greatly appreciated. However, I once again do not want to use Porygon2.

 

[Lucalibur]

Try specs raikou or cm+LO raikou (timid ofc). The increased defenses raikou has makes a huge difference with priority running around, and the speed difference isn't the most important thing in the world (can outspeed latias and gengar and still KO). cm+LO raikou really owns if you take out those walls that the rest of your team does, and can still switch out.

Latias is always underwhelming becuase dragon's a shitty special attacking type. Special already has incredible coverage with electric+ice, and so it doesn't need a neutral coverage attack like dragon. All you need is a water attack (suicune) or ghost (raikou). Thus I think suicune would overall be stronger over latias. It would add to this heavy offensive playstyle, consistently taking 2-3 pokes with them. Timid cm+LO suicune

good sir,are you on drugs? what you are saying is that a type that hit most stuff for neutral is a shitty type? dragon is the best mono-type atacking move of the game,and latias dragon pulse get about the same power has super effective thunderbolt or ice beam,10 points of difference because of STAB,about that...i am still thinking you where on drugs when you posted that,because when you got a type that is only resisted by steel,its for sure a great type,also suicune should be played on the defensive,sure it can run a offensive set.but its outclasses by so many other special sweepers and since you would be investing on offensive power,bulkness would be wasted

 

[RedGunBlade]

well a CB weavile with ice shard stops salamence dead in it's tracks. Not too sure how you will be able to fit him in tho...you could replace jirachi but that leaves you without a steel. If you really don't like that then you could switch TTar with a agiligross (if you replace jirachi). They both do about the same thing for you. However this is a huge change to the team so its up to you. Hope i helped, probably didn't tho lol.

 

[akarias]

If you're attacking on the special side of things, why hit everything neutral for dragon when you can hit 70% of the game SE with equally powerful stabs? Dragon is a good physical attacking type because the physical end is harder to cover (and outrage is so strong, plus you have DD). Draco meteor's good just because of its raw power. But if you want to sweep, using dragon type is stupid because a) it doesn't hit anything SE ice doesn't besides kingdra and b) it let's steels set up.

Since you guys have got your nutsacks so tied up about this, I'll personally make a list for you as to why in OU ice/electric is better than, say dragon/fire. Everything not included is neutral by both.

Aerodactyl: both ice/electric hit SE
Breloom: ice
bronzong: ice/electric, since SE hp fire is same (actually less) than STAB tbolt
celebi: icebeam is much stronger than hp fire
dragonite: dragonite can actually survive a non-boosted dragon pulse if specc'ed right, but not ice
empoleon: electric obviously
flygon: ice is stronger
forretress: same, since +1 tbolt still 1hko's
gliscor: ice obviously
gyarados: huge advantage to electric
heatran: lol electric/ice
heracross: same
hippowdon: ice
jirachi: electric/ice (see bronzong)
kingdra: dragon
latias: same
lucario: ice/electric (see bronzong)
magnezone: dragon/hp fire
mamoswine: dragon/hp fire
metagross: electric/ice (see bronzong)
ninjask: same, dies either way
rhyperior: huge advantage to ice
salamence: ice
scizor: +1 tbolt from raikou still 1hko's, but raikou actually resists BP while latias doesn't. Since this isn't a specific raikou v. latias post, I'll say same
skarmory: electric, since you get stab on tbolt but not hp fire (which doens't always ko)
starmie: big advantage to electric
suicune: another big advantage to electric
tentacruel: see above ^_^
togekiss: ba bam, both electric/ice beam hit much harder, and it is important due to togekiss's high spD
vaporeon: huge advantage to electric
weavile: He dies to both really...but I guess hp fire kinda wins?
zapdos: ice beam easily wins

Okay, so you have ice/electric having an advantage for...22 pokes in OU, including pretty much the entire top 10. Dragon/fire only has advantage for less common pokes like mamomswine, magnezone, and kingdra. The biggest difference is dragon/fire gets walled by heatran (so common), loses to togekiss paralyze, can't ohko gyara, and let's empoleon set up.

And by the way, if you expand this to 3 moves, the difference becomes EVEN LARGER since again, dragon hits neutral to all but unfortunately the most important type, so if you have 3 moves why waste the space?

Btw saying suicune's bulkiness is wasted if it's offensive is just retarded, that's like saying offensive latias can't sponge special hits (haha). It cannot be OHKO'd by anything after a calm mind that's commonly run, and is VERY rarely 3hko'd. More importantly both suicune and raikou resist BP (!) which would take 60-70% of latias.

 

[dance]

This team looks pretty solid and differentiates from other bog standard OU teams I've been seing lately so i thought id stop by to give you a rate. I honestly don't see many large threats, i was going to mention DDmence giving you big problems but realized you had that covered with scarfrachi revenging +1 mence. I can see a quite small problem with defensive CM latias taking down a couple of your members and jirachi being the only one to really handle it and can't come in safely on a Tbolt/Surf.

Starmie looks fine but anti lead empoleon does it a bit better as well as has better typing in the lead spot and for your whole team. Only thing starmie really does is provides rapid spin support when only zapdos is weak to it and can easily roost the damage off. The ev spread for empoleon would be 156 HP / 252 SpA / 100 Spe Modest @ Focus sash. Moveset is Hydro pump / Aqua jet / Ice beam / Stealth rock. Stealth rock is in my opinion better in the lead position then on someone like gliscor since as you really dislike stall/your team is weak to a few pokemon who can be choiced having SR on the field and giving gliscor something like knock off to severely cripple choiced pokemon and make it so bliss/hippo/skarm can't get that 6% of recovery every turn. Empoleon can 2HKO metagross with either hydro pump both turns, or a combination of hydro pump/aqua jet. "100 Speed EVs hits 181 Speed, which outspeeds the many Pokémon in the 176-180 Speed range, which includes Metagross, Tyranitar, and Machamp. The remaining EVs are placed in HP for bulk. Aqua jet also helps you beat things like infernape; they fake out and break your sash, you hydro pump, you aqua jet, they faint. I'm suggesting ice beam over grass knot as hydro pump should at the least 2HKO swampert which means grass knot really isn't needed and ice beam allows better coverage on the set if empoleon manages to be alive late game.

Subroost zapdos does alright and i don't have much to change on it as you have a gliscor to counter lucario and zapdos is inferior to it for that job as zapdos has the possibility of being OHKO'd by a +2 adamant e-speed after SR damage.

Latias looks okay but i don't really see what it's doing for your team except countering infernape and you said your team was weak to mence/gyara so you could switch latias to a scarfed variant to beat both gyara and mence and possibly give you better results still being able to check infernape and give you the option for putting in something like lucario for a lategame sweep in jirachis place. The latias spread would be 252 Sp atk / 252 spe / 6 HP timid @ Choice scarf. It outspeeds +1 gyara and resists a waterfall which makes it an excellent check as well as outspeeds +1 mence. Your team puts pressure on mence so if they manage to get a DD on something that has an attack to harm mence but will be ko'd then you can take the faint and bring in latias and revenge it. Moveset would be Dragon pulse / Thunderbolt / Surf / Trick. Thunderbolt for gyara, surf for things like infernape, and dragon pulse for STAB and taking down mence after SR damage.

When changing latias to the scarfed variant you can make jirachi into a lucario which would be 252 Atk / 252 Atk / 252 spe / 6 HP Adamant @ Life orb. Moveset would be Close combat / Crunch / Extremespeed / Swords dance. E-speed gives you a priority move which is always great to have, crunch 2HKOs the bulkiest rotom and dusknoir after an SD, close combat is STAB and hits hard. Pretty standard.

But with having those changes your team because decently scizor weak as they can avoid your zappy and eventually SR damage/prediction will kill it. I suggest making zappy 248 hp / 84 def / 176 spe Timid @ Leftovers which beats jolly lucario by 2 points, ties with 216 spe gliscor, 248 hp lets you switch into SR 5 times instead of 4, 84 def survives a +2 e-speed from jolly luke. 248 hp is also a lefties point overshot by 1 because zapdos is weak to SR. Moveset would be Heat wave / Thunderbolt / Toxic / Roost. Helps you beat scizor easier. That's about it.

With running empoleon you could switch the SR on gliscor to knock off which cripples choicers and beats stall even more with bliss/hippo/skarm/rotom not having that 6% recovery every turn.

TTar looks fine and tyraniboah is part of your pretty solid core which beats stall well so i won't change it. But consider a bulky CBtar for trapping things easier like latias.

That's a lot of changes but hopefully you can take some into consideration.

gl

 

[Oddish On Fire]

Everyone, please pretend that Akarias did not just make that post, and do not make a rebuttle. I would like to keep this RMT focused on actually making my team better rather than talking about why Dragon is or is not a great offensive type.

Akarias, I would appreciate it if you did post in my RMT, as your suggestions are not helpful.

@ RedGunBlade-although it does provide a great check for salamence, it sadly lacks bulk is typically an OHK with nearly any attack.

This team looks pretty solid and differentiates from other bog standard OU teams I've been seing lately so i thought id stop by to give you a rate. I honestly don't see many large threats, i was going to mention DDmence giving you big problems but realized you had that covered with scarfrachi revenging +1 mence. I can see a quite small problem with defensive CM latias taking down a couple of your members and jirachi being the only one to really handle it and can't come in safely on a Tbolt/Surf.

Starmie looks fine but anti lead empoleon does it a bit better as well as has better typing in the lead spot and for your whole team. Only thing starmie really does is provides rapid spin support when only zapdos is weak to it and can easily roost the damage off. The ev spread for empoleon would be 156 HP / 252 SpA / 100 Spe Modest @ Focus sash. Moveset is Hydro pump / Aqua jet / Ice beam / Stealth rock. Stealth rock is in my opinion better in the lead position then on someone like gliscor since as you really dislike stall/your team is weak to a few pokemon who can be choiced having SR on the field and giving gliscor something like knock off to severely cripple choiced pokemon and make it so bliss/hippo/skarm can't get that 6% of recovery every turn. Empoleon can 2HKO metagross with either hydro pump both turns, or a combination of hydro pump/aqua jet. "100 Speed EVs hits 181 Speed, which outspeeds the many Pokémon in the 176-180 Speed range, which includes Metagross, Tyranitar, and Machamp. The remaining EVs are placed in HP for bulk. Aqua jet also helps you beat things like infernape; they fake out and break your sash, you hydro pump, you aqua jet, they faint. I'm suggesting ice beam over grass knot as hydro pump should at the least 2HKO swampert which means grass knot really isn't needed and ice beam allows better coverage on the set if empoleon manages to be alive late game.

Subroost zapdos does alright and i don't have much to change on it as you have a gliscor to counter lucario and zapdos is inferior to it for that job as zapdos has the possibility of being OHKO'd by a +2 adamant e-speed after SR damage.

Latias looks okay but i don't really see what it's doing for your team except countering infernape and you said your team was weak to mence/gyara so you could switch latias to a scarfed variant to beat both gyara and mence and possibly give you better results still being able to check infernape and give you the option for putting in something like lucario for a lategame sweep in jirachis place. The latias spread would be 252 Sp atk / 252 spe / 6 HP timid @ Choice scarf. It outspeeds +1 gyara and resists a waterfall which makes it an excellent check as well as outspeeds +1 mence. Your team puts pressure on mence so if they manage to get a DD on something that has an attack to harm mence but will be ko'd then you can take the faint and bring in latias and revenge it. Moveset would be Dragon pulse / Thunderbolt / Surf / Trick. Thunderbolt for gyara, surf for things like infernape, and dragon pulse for STAB and taking down mence after SR damage.

When changing latias to the scarfed variant you can make jirachi into a lucario which would be 252 Atk / 252 Atk / 252 spe / 6 HP Adamant @ Life orb. Moveset would be Close combat / Crunch / Extremespeed / Swords dance. E-speed gives you a priority move which is always great to have, crunch 2HKOs the bulkiest rotom and dusknoir after an SD, close combat is STAB and hits hard. Pretty standard.

But with having those changes your team because decently scizor weak as they can avoid your zappy and eventually SR damage/prediction will kill it. I suggest making zappy 248 hp / 84 def / 176 spe Timid @ Leftovers which beats jolly lucario by 2 points, ties with 216 spe gliscor, 248 hp lets you switch into SR 5 times instead of 4, 84 def survives a +2 e-speed from jolly luke. 248 hp is also a lefties point overshot by 1 because zapdos is weak to SR. Moveset would be Heat wave / Thunderbolt / Toxic / Roost. Helps you beat scizor easier. That's about it.

With running empoleon you could switch the SR on gliscor to knock off which cripples choicers and beats stall even more with bliss/hippo/skarm/rotom not having that 6% recovery every turn.

TTar looks fine and tyraniboah is part of your pretty solid core which beats stall well so i won't change it. But consider a bulky CBtar for trapping things easier like latias.

That's a lot of changes but hopefully you can take some into consideration.

gl

For starters, I would like to say that this is both a 24 hour bump and an update, as Latias has been massively revamped.

Regarding the quoted section, my bad for overlooking your post, as we both posted at the same time. About Empoleon, I agree that it does a better job as an anti-lead. However, it lacks Rapid Spin, which is extremely valuable to my team. Though my team does not take much damage from Stealth Rocks, with my playstyle any damage like this massively affects me. With my constant double switching, Stealth Rock wears down any of my Pokemon and commonly ends up in losses for me. The ability to use immunitys and synergy to absorb damage is severely hampered by any entry damage.

With Latias, I am heavily considering changing it to a scarfed version, as this has been on my mind for a while. However, I do NOT want to switch to a Lucario, as a bulky steel lets me better absorb attacks and keeps synergy more constant. So, any advice on an offensive set (preferably physical) on a bulky steel would be greatly appreciated, as I could then make my change to a scarfed Latias.

On Tyranitar, I have been considering a few different sets, including a scarf tyranitar for pursuits that kill a pokemon whether it switches or not, before it has a chance to attack. I have seen this work very well in conjunction with scarfed U-turners, so I could slightly rework my team to fit this.

Thanks for the rate, you definitely made me consider some things :)

EDIT: I forgot to mention Scizor. With my recent updates, Scizor has become much less of a threat due to HP Fire Latias.

Current ideas for replacements on Jirachi if I make Latias a choice scarf;

Physical Mix Jirachi
http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/jirachi
Mixed Metagross/Tanking Metagross
http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/metagross

I'll update this and expand upon my ideas more tomorrow after school.

 

[Oddish On Fire]

My final bump/update. Unless anyone rates again, I'm letting this thread die. I just changed Latias to a scarf version, switched Jirachi for a mixed Metagross, and made Tyranitar a choice band user. Any advice regarding the new changes would be appreciated. Thanks for the help everyone! I'm consistently winning more and more games.