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Community Create-A-Team #2: Aggron (OU)
- Thread starter Justinawe
- Start date
Voting Substitute +3 attacks
Reasons: Building a team around a choiced pokemon is unacceptable especially one with low speed and common 4X weaknesses. As a choiced pokemon Aggron has no assets, no pursuit, no uturn, nothing. As I begin to feel that I am the only one who has actually played with aggron recently I must ask people not to vote for sets that they haven't used. Before you ask, I have tested the CB set, and I have found it to be less than exciting.
Now, those are the reasons i have for voting against CB, but i also have reasons for substitute +3 attacks. Aggron can easily come in on choiced pokemon that are using attacks that aggron resists and with a sub up, he will almost certainly kill anything but a hard counter such as swampert. With the sub acting as an extra life, Aggron can break stall much more easily. These are the reasons that I'm voting for the substitute set.
Reasons: Building a team around a choiced pokemon is unacceptable especially one with low speed and common 4X weaknesses. As a choiced pokemon Aggron has no assets, no pursuit, no uturn, nothing. As I begin to feel that I am the only one who has actually played with aggron recently I must ask people not to vote for sets that they haven't used. Before you ask, I have tested the CB set, and I have found it to be less than exciting.
Now, those are the reasons i have for voting against CB, but i also have reasons for substitute +3 attacks. Aggron can easily come in on choiced pokemon that are using attacks that aggron resists and with a sub up, he will almost certainly kill anything but a hard counter such as swampert. With the sub acting as an extra life, Aggron can break stall much more easily. These are the reasons that I'm voting for the substitute set.
This. My vote is CB because we want to be throwing out Head Smashes whenever we can, as hard as we can. Choice Band gives the quickest boost. In addition, Adamant will work on a CB set, as opposed to RP, which I presume people will run Jolly for to beat SCarfTran. Aggron's assets are his raw power with his STAB Rock Head, not his speed. If you want a speed booster with good attack, there's already Gyarados, Salamence, TTar, etc.
I vote CB
Just look at Justinawe's damages post. Pretty convincing.
Just look at Justinawe's damages post. Pretty convincing.
My vote goes to Choice Band as it effectively shows what Aggron can do as opposed to what people think it should be doing. Rock Polish Aggron is simply just outclassed, hell I'll admit that it's not outclassed by much but it is still outclassed. It seems people are trying to force Aggron into the spotlight with the Rock Polish. The Choice Band set seems to benefit the team more as a whole with it's support.
Justin's calcs, as well as the numerous reasons others have provided such as raw hitting power, ability to OHKO/2HKO all but (6 was it?) Pokemon in OU.
Voting Rock Polish
I'm quoting myself here, I don't want to sound ignorant, but I still believe I make a valid point:
I'm quoting myself here, I don't want to sound ignorant, but I still believe I make a valid point:
Well, I voted for a Sub+Magnet Rise moveset. Why? Becuse, I think it makes a good wall set.
Aggron@Leftovers
EV's 252HP, 244 Def, 6 Attack
Subsitute
Magnet Rise
Head Smash
Iron Head(?)
Maybe, like this one above.
I have not tryed it yet, though.
Aggron@Leftovers
EV's 252HP, 244 Def, 6 Attack
Subsitute
Magnet Rise
Head Smash
Iron Head(?)
Maybe, like this one above.
I have not tryed it yet, though.
I have a question: Are we centering around Aggron so that it solely be used to sweep teams, or so that it can fit into (a) competitive teams and be of use competitively? If it's used solely for sweeping, Rock Polish would have the best chances (in my opinion). But if it's to fit into a useful role into a team other than sweeping, well there are other sets that can provide that. It seems there are quite a few people fixated on RP Aggron because this CCAT is about sweeping with said pokemon?
Granted, I haven't used Aggron so feel free to ignore my vote for:
Rock Polish
Arguments about Metagross' superiority as a speed boosting sweeper didn't really change my mind.
Metagross is a better Pokemon period.
It quite possible that it's a better Choice Bander as well (faster, higher attack, useful ability, access to Explosion) so maybe we can't do a Choice Band Aggron because it's again outclassed.
The Pokemon used for the CCAT so far have generally been underdogs that the community is going to try to make work with the proper team support.
So I don't think the fact that Agility Metagross might be better by some measure should necessarily rule out a Rock Polish Aggron.
Personally, I believe a choice item is a horrible tradeoff and I can't imagine building a team around a star player than cannot change it's moves without switching.
To exacerbate matters, Aggron cannot switch out without granting a free turn as Scizor can with U-Turn.
Choice Band has its merits but I don't think it appropriate for a project such as this.
Nonetheless, I'd be interested to see how the team evolves even if CB is ultimately chosen.
Rock Polish
Arguments about Metagross' superiority as a speed boosting sweeper didn't really change my mind.
Metagross is a better Pokemon period.
It quite possible that it's a better Choice Bander as well (faster, higher attack, useful ability, access to Explosion) so maybe we can't do a Choice Band Aggron because it's again outclassed.
The Pokemon used for the CCAT so far have generally been underdogs that the community is going to try to make work with the proper team support.
So I don't think the fact that Agility Metagross might be better by some measure should necessarily rule out a Rock Polish Aggron.
Personally, I believe a choice item is a horrible tradeoff and I can't imagine building a team around a star player than cannot change it's moves without switching.
To exacerbate matters, Aggron cannot switch out without granting a free turn as Scizor can with U-Turn.
Choice Band has its merits but I don't think it appropriate for a project such as this.
Nonetheless, I'd be interested to see how the team evolves even if CB is ultimately chosen.
Voting for CB.
If we want to use Aggron effectively, we need to use the main advantage over every pokemon: a 225 base power attack coming off of 525 attack, which no pokemon can boast. As soon as this baby has a chance to switch in, Head Smash will be destroying any switchin that doesn't resist it, easily 2HKOing anything that doesn't resist it. As seen by the calcs, only pokemon like Hippowdon and Metagross can sustain more then 3 hits from this beat. They are easily countered by pokemon like Rotom and Celebi though, and CB Head Smashes are too good to pass up. As someone pointed out, its much better to switch in and Head Smash a counter, then switch in and Rock Polish when your counter comes in. What a waste of a turn that Rock Polish would be. Let's go CB!
If we want to use Aggron effectively, we need to use the main advantage over every pokemon: a 225 base power attack coming off of 525 attack, which no pokemon can boast. As soon as this baby has a chance to switch in, Head Smash will be destroying any switchin that doesn't resist it, easily 2HKOing anything that doesn't resist it. As seen by the calcs, only pokemon like Hippowdon and Metagross can sustain more then 3 hits from this beat. They are easily countered by pokemon like Rotom and Celebi though, and CB Head Smashes are too good to pass up. As someone pointed out, its much better to switch in and Head Smash a counter, then switch in and Rock Polish when your counter comes in. What a waste of a turn that Rock Polish would be. Let's go CB!
I was convinced Choice Band is a great set due to some calcs that pretty much show Aggron raping the entire metagame with one move. (100%+ on scizor and heatran, etc)
I acctually don't agree with you that Meta is better than Aggron simply because its hard to compare them. Yea they can get off with the same movesets at times but really with their main moves Meteor Mash and Head Smash respectivally these moves alone stop them from being compared entirely. They each have thier own targets and assasians. I don't think I'll ever see metagross taking on a Scizor like Aggron can and I personally think Metagross has a better shot at taking on flygon than Aggron.
According to the poll, RP would be the winning set right now. However, many people have stated they wanted a revote, after seeing people making great points towards the CB set. Now after counting up the revotes, here are the totals:
Choice Band-9
Rock Polish-4
Subtitute-4
It gives me great pleasure to announce, that after the bolded revoting, CB is the winner, and the set that will be chosen for the basis of the team.
Now, let's discuss what the team style will be!
Choice Band-9
Rock Polish-4
Subtitute-4
It gives me great pleasure to announce, that after the bolded revoting, CB is the winner, and the set that will be chosen for the basis of the team.
Now, let's discuss what the team style will be!
i think a bulky offensive team or even a heavy offensive team could work.
things like aggron with its resistances, celebi and rotom can all function as pretty bulky pokemon skewed offensively to deal damage and counter the few pokemon that can live through a head smash.
i think the lead should a) set up rocks, and b) OHKO hippowdon.
ok more open discussion.
things like aggron with its resistances, celebi and rotom can all function as pretty bulky pokemon skewed offensively to deal damage and counter the few pokemon that can live through a head smash.
i think the lead should a) set up rocks, and b) OHKO hippowdon.
ok more open discussion.
I like a team with Thunder Wave support. I mean sure the last CCAT used the same theme, but it is seriously working with the team i'm using now. I'm running a Specs Rotom with Discharge and a Rest Talk Gyarados with Thunder Wave + Waterfall. The Celebi also has Thunder Wave. So far Aggron nets about 2 to 3 kills against, and i always use at least 5 Head Smashes per game. Choice Band Aggron is so hard to defend against, trust me.
Sandstorm isn't necessary for CB, especially since some of his better partners don't like losing there leftovers. besides, his special defense is still crap and we won't invest enough evs to fix that on an offensive set
Yeah, I'm not participating in this besides my vote in the initial poll, but you REALLY need to make a new thread for team strategies if you want this to go smoothly. People are going to look at the poll and think that you're using the Rock Polish set, when in fact you're using the Choice Band set. Also, people aren't even going to know what you guys are currently discussing, since topic just randomly changed to teammates now at some random page. I think a new thread is in order here so you can have some kind of organization, because frankly, a lack of organization is what made the Heracross one take like 2 weeks longer than it should have.
@ Bologo
Considering the first CCAT was in fact the first one probably contributed to its shaky-ness. And it was not like people were throwing out suggestions on how the process should be or should of been. Speaking of which, if there is going to be another CCAT there should/ will be a process discussion thread beforehand.
Considering the first CCAT was in fact the first one probably contributed to its shaky-ness. And it was not like people were throwing out suggestions on how the process should be or should of been. Speaking of which, if there is going to be another CCAT there should/ will be a process discussion thread beforehand.