Heavy Offense

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When i made the original special ubers HO team (the team anachronisms is based upon) these where the pokemon i used, but anachronisms is better so you should use that: Deoxys-e spikes lead with Shadow ball and sometimes signal beam, wobbuffet, darkrai, giratina-0, mewtwo, kyogre. This team actually went like 150-25 the first month i used it. After that first month i stopped playing through mid july and early august. When I came back I found the original team to be way to slow and it just wasn't what i wanted. By that time anachronism made this really bitching version of it that was pretty much owning the entire ubers metagame. Anachronism's team put like 5 people in the top 10 or something ridiculous like that.
 
The Plant said:
I'm not pretending I know more then goof because I don't. But if the scarfer is faster you haven't weakened anything.

Say you have a gyrados. You DD as they switch to Latias. If Latias isn't scarfed LO Dos usually Ko's so you'd want to stay in. If it is you are down a gyrados. They might have brought in Latias to kill you or they might have been predicting you to use waterfall tgo soften rotom You can't really know.
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Yes, but then they're locked into a TBolt/DPulse/Ice Beam, or w/e it is, leaving you knowing its item and its moveset (most likely), as well as giving you free entry to a sweeper that is immune or resists the attack Latias is locked into, therefor letting you set-up. Sacrifices such as these are what make HO so deadly, your Choice Scarf'd Ice Beam from Latias on my +1 Sala just gave me the opportunity to get Lucario a free switch in and a free SD, which is game breaking.
 
How many times have stathakis and I states that HO does NOT require prediction? It does indeed require thinking and when I'm on a computer I'll provide an example.
 
In some ways HO is much more straightforward to play than other styles, because for the most part you are avoiding prediction, so there's no need to try to guess what the other player will do. On the other hand, you clearly can't just play like a donkey and expect to win unless their team is super-vulnerable to whatever monster you just powered up. I find it difficult to state how exactly to play HO optimally, because I'm kind of a middling player, but I suspect there is a lot more scouting and safe prediction early on followed by setup --> sweep than some people are implying.

Also, I'm not sure whether I can mount a solid defense of this, but I feel as though it's a lot harder to construct a very strong HO team than perhaps any other style, and a lot of the skill required to use HO shows up in the teambuilding process. You need to have the raw power to crush walls and storm through bulky teams, robustness to all sorts of disruption (status, trick, phaze, etc.), and also I find it critical to have a very strong defensive structure (in terms of resistances) in order to maximize your ability to set up and handle enemy offensive threats. I do think it's very difficult to make an optimized stall team as well (see IPL's crazy shenanigans with Spiritomb and Bronzong), and optimizing bulky offense is complicated partially just because of the sheer volume of candidates that could fit into that style, but I think by nature it is much easier to give them resilience to a lot of things. Dunno, just thought I'd toss this out there.
 
The reason Salamence is in a lot of HO teams though is the threat it possesses. Not many pokemon can boast about being able to hit hard on the Special AND Physical side. All of the different movesets it can have as well make it a threat, although most HO teams use DD Versions.
 
piercetheveil said:
If you don't agree with goofballs statements then you must have little to no experience with HO or you're just way too biased.

I would like someone to show me examples of HO not being;

"Send in X sweeper"
"Use X stat booster"
"Use X STAB attack"

There's no more to these teams than switching in a sweeper, boosting your attack and or speed then attacking until that Pokemon dies. There is no prediction involved in these teams and no thought is required to win with them.
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You should talk to Stathakis then. He has the most experience with HO here, and he's actually teaching me to get better at it.
 
Doesn't anybody have any problems running this team? I play the team on the ladder so I like it but I have had issues. What exactly do you all switch into a a scarf Rotom T-bolt. What can set up on it even to revenge kill.
 
If you opt to use DDTar over Infernape then that works. Screens also help if you set those up. Salamence survives it and sets up too.
 
In my experience a good rotom counter is something that the person using it thinks they can beat. Empoleon draws out rotom pretty quickly, and +2 outspeeds scarf rotoms with a clean hydro pump OHKO after sr damage.

I should note I use a LO 3 attack empoleon, not subpetya.
 
This is a very interesting thread, I am going to attempt to make a HO team.
AgiliGross was never that great (for me at least)
but this style will really let it work!
 
Make sure you save Agiligross for later in the game. Using it early is a mistake, as it becomes quite easy to wall and defeat with Rotom-A/Zapdos/Skarmory/Bronzong/Swampert, depending on your moves. Early on, I prefer Gyarados, because with screen support, it can be devastating. After a Light Screen, a defensive Rotom's Thunderbolt doesn't OHKO, meaning that you can kill it, opening up a sweeping opportunity for something like Agiligross.

There's something to be said for using Jolteon or Flygon on a team like this, if only to check Rotom-A, who can be a serious annoyance. I disdain using Tyranitar because the Sand Stream really hurts non-immune Life Orb users, but to each his own.
 
mtr12 said:
Make sure you save Agiligross for later in the game. Using it early is a mistake, as it becomes quite easy to wall and defeat with Rotom-A/Zapdos/Skarmory/Bronzong/Swampert, depending on your moves. Early on, I prefer Gyarados, because with screen support, it can be devastating. After a Light Screen, a defensive Rotom's Thunderbolt doesn't OHKO, meaning that you can kill it, opening up a sweeping opportunity for something like Agiligross.

There's something to be said for using Jolteon or Flygon on a team like this, if only to check Rotom-A, who can be a serious annoyance. I disdain using Tyranitar because the Sand Stream really hurts non-immune Life Orb users, but to each his own.
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I use a Scarfgon on my team as lead, and it works well. Since it (like you said) threaten and check (almost) all rotom forms, but most notable Rotom-A.
 
I've started to use RP Torterra on a standard team of


DS Azlef
SD Infernape(best poke on team, also absolute favorite)
SubLiechi Nite(a frickin beast, not switching for salamence)
Agiligross
DDGyara
RP Torterra

Let me tell you, this thing is a BEAST. This thing was MADE to clear out walls early game. The best defensive types in the game Ground, Water, and Steel are easily hit by his STABs and on fast offensivwe teams, he out speeds and kills off most of their memebers. It finds many oppurtunities to switch in, being resistant to QuakeEdge, ThunderWave, and many other resists. It is extremely good early game wall breaker.
 
sora13 said:
I've started to use RP Torterra on a standard team of


DS Azlef
SD Infernape(best poke on team, also absolute favorite)
SubLiechi Nite(a frickin beast, not switching for salamence)
Agiligross
DDGyara
RP Torterra

Let me tell you, this thing is a BEAST. This thing was MADE to clear out walls early game. The best defensive types in the game Ground, Water, and Steel are easily hit by his STABs and on fast offensivwe teams, he out speeds and kills off most of their memebers. It finds many oppurtunities to switch in, being resistant to QuakeEdge, ThunderWave, Bug, Steel, Grass, and many other resists. It is extremely good early game wall breaker.
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What? Torterra doesn't resist bug... it's weak to it. And doesn't resist steel either. AND it's neutral to grass.
Skarmory, Celebi and most Latias... AND Breloom walls the hell out of Torterra.And no matter how much speed you got, Weavile and Mamoswine always revenge you with Ice Shard. Not to say Scizor that can take a EQ and kill you with Bug Bite/U-Turn.
He's better mid game when you know what pokes your enemy has, and the ones Torterra doesn't like are weakened or gone.
 
Hey guys, I want some help with a new HO team I am thinking of that is based on taking out steels and bulky grounds. I know that Stathakis has wanted to create a team like this and it seems quite promising, considering how many things in the metagame that Scizor checks for people. The old HOs that focus on breaking down bulky waters is kind of not working like it used to, mostly because so many of the members have specific counters other than bulky waters. This team must have more synergy to prevent this problem.

The basis will be a pair of outragers ( probably DD Mence and DD Nite), and then some steel sweepers that draw in other steels. All of these together should make it easy to take out the 2-3 steels commonly on teams and then will allow for an easy sweep of the other members.

DS Azelf is obvious for the lead position

DD Mence and DD Nite obviously get spots

The steel types are the hard part. I see 4 possible options:

RP Aggron, Agiligross, SD Lucario, and SD Scizor. Opinions on this would be appreciated. We should probably choose 2 of these.

The last slot should probably go with DD Tar. It has a miraculous ability to draw in Scizor while also filling in some defensive holes in our lineup. He would go especially well with RP Aggron I think (the main reason that Aggron appears on the list considering the other 3 are probably better out of the context of this team). If we don't use Aggron, this slot could also go to Kingdra if we feel the need for a third outrager.

Anyway, this could be a cool new team. Any opinions on sets would be appreciated. I am not sure when I will have time to test this, so that is another thing that would be helpful. This could be like a create-a-team specifically for HO!
 
I hit the top 15 a minute ago with the standard azelf/salamence/gyrados/lucario/metagrosstyranitar. I really wish garchomp was there to eq metagross, take t-bolts, take t-waves, and outspeed mence.

To Anachro: I feel like Meta is needed. Stuff has to be hard to scarf revenge kill or its hard to beat jirachi.
 
The Plant said:
I hit the top 15 a minute ago with the standard azelf/salamence/gyrados/lucario/metagrosstyranitar. I really wish garchomp was there to eq metagross, take t-bolts, take t-waves, and outspeed mence.

To Anachro: I feel like Meta is needed. Stuff has to be hard to scarf revenge kill or its hard to beat jirachi.
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how did you manage this with all the rotoms and gliscors/skarmories around? o.O do you use different sets or something, please do tell us :naughty:

congrats btw, not many people have hit top 15 with HO... all the ones I know of are Rey, Brksosc and maybe Stathakis... any tips you can offer btw? I can't seem to make HO work for me somehow :/ stupid scarfers/statusers annoy the hell out of me...
 
Sparko said:
how did you manage this with all the rotoms and gliscors/skarmories around? o.O do you use different sets or something, please do tell us :naughty:

congrats btw, not many people have hit top 15 with HO... all the ones I know of are Rey, Brksosc august and maybe Stathakis... any tips you can offer btw? I can't seem to make HO work for me somehow :/ stupid scarfers/statusers annoy the hell out of me...
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In my experience on the ladder with HO, Skarmory seems to think its easy to spike against things like AgiliGross, DDTar, and DDMence (2hko'd after SR by the above most the time) so its not that big of an issue. Gliscor is generally a huge bitch, but literally everything on that team has the ability to 2HKO Gliscor with a boost (sucks that Tar activates sand veil though), and Tyranitar is awesome on HO because it provides a nice switch into Scarf Rotom, while defensive ones are generally easier to take down, taking a +1 Gyara Waterfall after SR generally means Metagross can KO it next time it cones in, which opens up a nice hole to sweep.
 
august said:
In my experience on the ladder with HO, Skarmory seems to think its easy to spike against things like AgiliGross, DDTar, and DDMence (2hko'd after SR by the above most the time) so its not that big of an issue. Gliscor is generally a huge bitch, but literally everything on that team has the ability to 2HKO Gliscor with a boost (sucks that Tar activates sand veil though), and Tyranitar is awesome on HO because it provides a nice switch into Scarf Rotom, while defensive ones are generally easier to take down, taking a +1 Gyara Waterfall after SR generally means Metagross can KO it next time it cones in, which opens up a nice hole to sweep.
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woah sorry I didn't list you amongst those that got to top 15 with HO, I forgot you played this style as well for some time xD

I guess you're right about them 2hko's, but whats putting me off lately is the lack of consistency DS azelf has lately, especially against trick scarfers/aero leads, which then leaves the rest of the team at a disadvantage...

lately I've been using this team:

DS Azelf
DD Gyara
DD Tyra
DD Salamence (I wonder, could mixmence work here?)
SD Lucario
AgiliGross

If gyara is down gliscor can have its way with the team, though yeah, salamence can kinda take care of it, but then they normally send it something like swampert, which isn't easily ohko'd, in such situations it just seems like if ds azelf doesn't do its job somehow, the team has few chances to win :/
 
This is only my opinion but I had mix mence for a long time and think DD Mence is better. If there are no rocks he is very hard to take out. Obviously experiment but I like the standard team, nothing was very unusual on mine.
 
Sparko said:
how did you manage this with all the rotoms and gliscors/skarmories around? o.O do you use different sets or something, please do tell us :naughty:

congrats btw, not many people have hit top 15 with HO... all the ones I know of are Rey, Brksosc and maybe Stathakis... any tips you can offer btw? I can't seem to make HO work for me somehow :/ stupid scarfers/statusers annoy the hell out of me...
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Stathakis hates laddering because he gets haxed too much, he says. I believe him too, because the only way I can beat him is with hax...
 
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