CAP 9 CAP 9 - Part 7a - Ability Discussion

[Deck Knight]

I am in the Guts and Poison Heal camp.

Guts: Guts has the obvious and immediate benefit of punishing Will-O-Wisp, a common debilitating attack on Ghost Pokemon. Combined with STAB Pursuit and high attack, Guts turns Pursuit into an offensive threat even if the Ghost stays in to Reflect or stall.

Poison Heal: Poison Heal plays a bit differently. It's better than outright immunity to Toxic Spikes, and gives defensive variants much more leeway in their function. I forsee it being used more with Leftovers than Toxic Orb TBH, since Toxic is a fairly common status and Leftovers + Poison Heal with Sandstorm immunity brings absurd defensive prowess. You could Sub/Protect like Stallrein I suppose, but it'd be highly conditional.

Poison Heal actually might actually be too powerful with some of the spreads. If it is, Immunity works to much the same effect.

Since everyone and their brother is suggesting a custom ability, here's my throw in:

Strikes Back: If the opponent uses a non-damaging attack on the turn CAP9 switches in, that attack effect is applied on both sides.

Eg. if CAP9 comes in on Celebi Thunder Wave, Celebi becomes paralyzed, if it switches in on Toxic Spikes, A layer of Toxic Spikes is added to the opponent's field. Not sure if it should not include direct stat-boosters like Swords Dance, but I would like it to work on things like Taunt, Screens, Hazards, and Status attacks. Note that it doesn't actually use a move, just applies the effect, switching in on Taunt or Encore would apply it to both sides (go Encoring Encore). Basically it would apply the effect %chance to both sides, so you could switch into Jirachi Body Slam and have a 30% chance to paralyze it.

I oppose Shed Skin. If Revenankh taught us anything, it's that Shedrest with any decent level of bulk is ridiculous.

 

[Objection]

It seems some people are overly keen on giving CAP9 a custom ability and some suggestions, particularly Mysteriousfellow's, would be broken even if given to Magikarp.

As scampy said, the main secondary effect that CAP9 is going to struggle with given its typing and anticipated stat spread is status. Perhaps therefore we should consider giving CAP9 abilities that make it immune to or benefit from its opponent's status moves. Guts has received a lot of support already, but I'm going to throw Insomnia into the mix as well because, let's face it, Sleep Talk is not exactly reliable, especially if you don't know how many turns the sleep is going to last for. Plus, if CAP9 gets both Guts and Insomnia, it could run the latter while feigning the former.

 

[FlareBlitz]

I oppose Shed Skin. If Revenankh taught us anything, it's that Shedrest with any decent level of bulk is ridiculous.

Revenankh was what, Ghost/Fighting? That has weaknesses to Flying, Psychic and Ghost. Not exactly common attacking types.
Our CAP has weaknesses to: Water, Ice, Grass, Bug, and Fighting. It simply cannot pull of a ShedRest set when the most popular pokemon in OU can come in and flat-out OHKO it with high powered STAB attacks. Hell, even a Vaporeon with 0 s.atk investments 2hkos some of these sets, and Luke ohkos most of them.

I'd say that if anything is ridiculous, it would be making our CAP into a bulkier, stronger, (and based on some sets) faster Swellow with better typing. Seriously, what's going to enjoy a Guts-boosted STAB sucker punch? Or Guts-boosted STAB Earthquake? I think as far as brokenness goes, I'd prefer to have a bulky CAP that still takes high damage from offensive pokemon but completely wrecks weaker tanks to a fast, strong, and still pretty bulky CAP that abuses Guts to 2hko the entire metagame.

Edit: I feel like I'm threadhogging so I'll just leave my point at that. If the community disagrees then that's fine.

 

[beej]

I see a lot of ability suggestions that are really way too passive and focus entirely on giving this immunities to things like various status and Trick. While it's obviously useful to be immune to these things, it should be noted that we've taken an aggressive response to this concept (which I definitely think was the best idea), and having the ability reflect this is for the best.

The way I see this concept performing its goal is by switching directly into a Pokemon that is pursuing a secondary damaging strategy and hopefully not just thwarting it, but actually punishing the user. You can find by looking at the mechanics of the game that there are a lot of really creative options that serve to outright punish secondary damage abusers, and haven't been discussed yet. I made a post discussing a few possibilities back in concept assessment (lol polljumping :X) but since then, I've come up with a more refined idea that I would like to suggest now, as we're discussing abilities.

Auto-Magic Coat (this obviously wouldn't be the name): This is definitely my favorite idea, assuming the mechanic is that the ability activates on switches only. Hypothetical scenario: Your bulky lead is at a disadvantage against a faster sleeper lead, like Roserade, Smeargle or Breloom. Switch in CAP9 on their respective sleep move and watch the tables turn completely. Is a Rotom spamming WoW? Switch in CAP9 with impunity and threaten to ruin it with <Dark STAB>. This ability means that our Pokemon can switch into any status abuser short of Body Slam Jirachi and completely flip the tables on them, and with the type of Pokemon we're creating here, CAP9 will hopefully also threaten to pseudo-trap a majority of these status abusers with Pursuit. In addition, this grants CAP9 an immunity to Leech Seed on the switch, which will be very handy assuming one of the massive HP spreads wins.

There are other Auto-<anti secondary> options that can potentially work too. On IRC, Deck Knight brought up two interesting ideas in Auto-Snatch and Auto-Mirror Move, which can potentially work similarly (especially Mirror Move). His Strike Back idea also works similarly to the idea I have here, and it's another great option for an ability. But Auto-Magic Coat grants us immediate immunity to on-the-switch status moves, the absolute most difficult kind to avoid, but from an offensive standpoint that punishes secondary damage abusers and, metagame-wise, forces people to consider the consequences of running such strategies. For these reasons, I think it's arguably the best ability choice for CAP9.

For the record, I also support Guts, as it's another offensively-oriented ability that responds to status users aggressively. I support Auto-Magic Coat more, but Guts is fine as well.

 

[hydrolphin]

Poison Heal seems to be the best ability for this guy. He can switch in on a T-Wave or non-statusing move, get healed every turn AND be immune to Status. I don't think this would be broken in anyway with Poison Heal-you can still hit it hard with Ice Beam or Surf or Grass Knot or Close Combat or any other good SE move. And if this thing ISN'T immune to TS, then we will have quite a bit of trouble. ALL OU spinners are immune to TS in some way. Donphan-who has great stats and a good movepool-is not that good of a spinner right now because he is hurt by TS. So if Poison heal is considered to be "broken beyond all belief" I would support Immunity next.

Guts is currently my third favorite, but I worry with it that people will focus on sweeping, and not stopping the secondary. This isn't terrible, but I don't want to see the primary set being EQ/Pursuit/Facade/Filler with a Flame Orb-we already know how this works.

On other things we know about, Shed Skin offers nothing new. Revvy has similar STABs (Dark and Ghost are very similar, and Fighting and Ground are similar as well), Shed Skin, good defenses and attack-exactly what most people are thinking.

 

[billymills]

I am vehemently opposed to anything remotely defensive. Guts or Quick feet seem to be the best submissions so far. That gives us one. I'm against Natural Cure, Shed Skin, Synchronize, and and variations thereof. We have made the decision to take this offensively, given typing and build bias, and that's exactly what I expect we do. I'm not extremely opposed to Poison Heal, but I think we can do better.

Shed Skin and synchronize do not stop secondary effects. They stop them against a specific pokemon. They provide little-to-no deterrent to actually using them on suspected switches - the majority of pokemon paralysing are not afraid of t-wave. Guts and Quick Feet provide a deterrent.

Natural cure is even worse: it encourages status moves such as sleep, expecting you to switch out, or it creates a whole new mindgame surrounding when and which status moves to use, on which switches.

I'd recommend some ability that boosts attack power if the opponent uses a status move (1.2-1.3ish) on the same turn, if we really want to create a new ability (It seems everyone wants to make one, the best I can hope to do is make sure it's a good ability. I do not support the creation of new abilities.)

 

[viol and bass]

Auto-Magic Coat (this obviously wouldn't be the name): This is definitely my favorite idea, assuming the mechanic is that the ability activates on switches only. Hypothetical scenario: Your bulky lead is at a disadvantage against a faster sleeper lead, like Roserade, Smeargle or Breloom. Switch in CAP9 on their respective sleep move and watch the tables turn completely. Is a Rotom spamming WoW? Switch in CAP9 with impunity and threaten to ruin it with <Dark STAB>. This ability means that our Pokemon can switch into any status abuser short of Body Slam Jirachi and completely flip the tables on them, and with the type of Pokemon we're creating here, CAP9 will hopefully also threaten to pseudo-trap a majority of these status abusers with Pursuit. In addition, this grants CAP9 an immunity to Leech Seed on the switch, which will be very handy assuming one of the massive HP spreads wins.

I think this is my favorite idea at the moment. It'd clearly be effective; the question is whether or not it'd be broken. And considering we're going with an excellent BSR and have a great offensive typing, I'm not sure it wouldn't be.

 

[Naxte]

I think this is my favorite idea at the moment. It'd clearly be effective; the question is whether or not it'd be broken. And considering we're going with an excellent BSR and have a great offensive typing, I'm not sure it wouldn't be.

However, we can't be sure either way on that until it's actually implemented and tested. Until that point, it's nothing more than theorymon, so that's no reason to hold it back. If it does end up being broken, we can fix that, but until it is in fact tested, we have no way of knowing if it's just good, broken, or what. I'd personally rather us end up making a broken CAP and know that it's actually be broken then risk simply stand back and let ourselves be taken in by theorymon, and not actually find out that something which appeared broken is in fact quite timid in practice.

Personally, I find the idea really interesting and am in full-support of it. It will make CAP9 more than just another Guts sweeper or Shed Skin tank, and also allow us to explore more of the mechanics and potential of the effects of Mirror Coat. Since this is newer territory, it will also let us find out if secondary effects really can be countered through such a method, or if for some reason or another it doesn't work too well in practice (which comes back to us not knowing until we try again). Putting all this together, I'm very interested in the idea and am supporting Auto-Magic Coat right now.

 

[Raikizen]

Strikes Back: If the opponent uses a non-damaging attack on the turn CAP9 switches in, that attack effect is applied on both sides.

Eg. if CAP9 comes in on Celebi Thunder Wave, Celebi becomes paralyzed, if it switches in on Toxic Spikes, A layer of Toxic Spikes is added to the opponent's field. Not sure if it should not include direct stat-boosters like Swords Dance, but I would like it to work on things like Taunt, Screens, Taunt, and Status attacks. Note that it doesn't actually use a move, just applies the effect, switching in on Taunt or Encore would apply it to both sides (go Encoring Encore).

I oppose Shed Skin. If Revenankh taught us anything, it's that Shedrest with any decent level of bulk is ridiculous.

I have to agree that Revanankh proved that Shedrest is ridiculously useful and powerful. With the level of attack this thing will most likely have, I would definitely oppose that at this point.

I didn't just quote you for that, though, DK. I have to say, your custom ability definitely intrigues me. Rather like a "I can do whatever you can do better", pseudo-ability. I think we would have to temper it down a bit. I believe just Status, Taunt, and Encore would be more than enough to make him outright scary. Throwing in Screens, for me, just seems like way too much of a benefit without any sort of side effect.

Otherwise, I suppose I will be concurring with Guts. As many people before me have explained, it severely punishes the common users of secondary skills. Coming in on a Will-o-Wisp or Toxic will give it enough power to muscle through even the most bulky of Secondary users. Hardly anything is going to want to wantonly toss status around when the repercussions are almost a guaranteed loss of a Pokemon.

 

[KnightoftheWind]

I like the idea of the Auto-Magic Coat ability. A lot of people have been suggesting a status countering CAP, so this might be the one they are looking for.

I'll also like to propose this custom ability:
Ignorance: Taunt and Torment do not affect the user

Simple reason being that Taunt is an extremely threatening non-damaging move, bringing a halt to indirectly beating those that can take direct damage. Torment isn't as dominant, but is deadly on stuff like Torment Heatran.

 

[Deck Knight]

I have to agree that Revanankh proved that Shedrest is ridiculously useful and powerful. With the level of attack this thing will most likely have, I would definitely oppose that at this point.

I didn't just quote you for that, though, DK. I have to say, your custom ability definitely intrigues me. Rather like a "I can do whatever you can do better", pseudo-ability. I think we would have to temper it down a bit. I believe just Status, Taunt, and Encore would be more than enough to make him outright scary. Throwing in Screens, for me, just seems like way too much of a benefit without any sort of side effect.

The easiest way to do that would simply be that it duplicates the effects of attacks that target the opponent's pokemon and side-specific field effects. Encore, Taunt, and Status all target the opponent's pokemon, Hazards are all side-specific field effects. The updated verbiage:

Strikes Back: If the opponent uses a non-damaging attack that targets the opponent's pokemon or field on the turn CAP9 switches in, that attack effect is applied on both sides' pokemon/fields.

Incidentally I ripped the name Strikes Back from the Base Set Pokemon TCG's Machamp card.

 

[Leman]

Looking at the stat thread, it looks like this cap will get some really good stat spread. So, we should probably tone it down with the ability. Something like Magic Guard or Guts seems like it will be way too good. Something that gives a simple stat immunity (Immunity, Water Veil, Insomnia) sound good. Personally I like Immunity, since it gives an immunity to Toxic Spikes, which makes CAP9 a lot more viable as a Spinner. Otherwise it'll suffer Donphan syndrome. Poison Heal works too, but its already got Ground, and the main reson for that was to get the T-Wave immunity, so just giving it that psuedo status immunity, to me makes Ground a lot more lame. I also like the Sticky Hold idea to give it a great way to beat Trickers, since you don't have to worry about the revenge set ups. Thats my 2 cents. :o

 

[Scoopapa]

I'd like to suggest Drought as an ability. Drought would have the primary effect of stopping Sand Storm, which is a prevalent source of secondary damage. Stopping Sand Storm would make him a thorn in the side of stall teams (who rely on secondary damage) as well, so it would really help him achieve his objective of stopping the secondary. This is especially feasible since he has the typing to switch in on and beat most Tyranitar. It would have the added bonus of nullifying his water weakness, so TTar can't beat CAP9 with Aqua Tail.

Perma-sun wouldn't be broken (while Perma-rain probably would be) because most pokemon who benefit from it have shallow movepools, bad offensive typing, and/or lack the combo speed/attack boost that rain offers those with Swift Swim. Also, TTar can switch in on Fire type moves and Solar Beam, and fire/grass resists aren't hard to find anyway.

Drought could also breathe new life into Pyroak, as well as giving some reason for Revenankh to try Moonlight.

Finally, it works quite well flavor-wise, since droughts occur in deserts (ground) and causing a drought is a nasty thing to do (dark).

 

[Walvren]

Insomnia/Vital Spirit

Quite a few setteruperers utilise sleep-inducing moves to help them do their job (think Smeargle, Crobat, Bronzong). A part of stopping secondaries is making sure that the setting up never occurs.

Guts is also a good option to punish status users with, but I'm liking sleep immunity more.

 

[Naxte]

Looking at the stat thread, it looks like this cap will get some really good stat spread. So, we should probably tone it down with the ability. Something like Magic Guard or Guts seems like it will be way too good. Something that gives a simple stat immunity (Immunity, Water Veil, Insomnia) sound good. Personally I like Immunity, since it gives an immunity to Toxic Spikes, which makes CAP9 a lot more viable as a Spinner. Otherwise it'll suffer Donphan syndrome. Poison Heal works too, but its already got Ground, and the main reson for that was to get the T-Wave immunity, so just giving it that psuedo status immunity, to me makes Ground a lot more lame. I also like the Sticky Hold idea to give it a great way to beat Trickers, since you don't have to worry about the revenge set ups. Thats my 2 cents. :o

I disagree. I mean, just look at Machamp (high attack, and relatively bulky, similar to the way CAP9 seems to be going) and Hearcross--they have great stats and Guts, but yet, they're not broken by any stretch of the imagination. Thus, it's very unlikely that even if we give CAP9 Guts, that it'll be broken. As for Magic Guard, I've already explained by feelings on that earlier, which are the same way I feel about Guts.

Personally, I don't think simply giving it something like Insomnia or Flash Fire will really be enough to fulfill the concept, as it'll still only be able to actually deal with a very small number of secondary moves. Thus, something like Guts, Magic Guard, or Auto-Magic Coat is preferable to me, so it'll be able to handle a larger variety of secondary effects without much worry.

If that does indeed end up being broken, then we can go back and fix that later. However, we don't have any way of actually knowing if something like them will be broken (which I personally feel very sure Guts wouldn't be, and fairly sure of on the others) until they're actually tested. Until that point, all we have is just theorymon. And as I put it earlier, "I'd personally rather us end up making a broken CAP and know that it's actually be broken then risk simply stand back and let ourselves be taken in by theorymon, and not actually find out that something which appeared broken is in fact quite timid in practice," and thus I'd prefer for us to simply go for what seems it would give CAP9 the actual best shot of fulfilling it's concept, and put fears of making CAP9 being broken that are just theorymon (actual valid fears, like introducing a base 120-all Pokemon into the standard metagame are of course valid, but worries over stuff like putting Guts on a Pokemon without actually seeing what would happen first aren't, to put into more perspective what I mean) aside until we actually get to testing this thing.

@Drought: No. It was tested and found to be broken a while ago. Plus, many of the Pokemon who'd benefit from it (ex. Victreebel) have only gotten larger movepools (in the case of Victreebel, Weather Ball, opening up room for a Hidden Power other than Fire) since DP, so I can't really see much having changed since then. Auto Rain/Sun are broken, and I'm not all that interested in seeing another test just to confirm that once more.
Plus, it's not just Pokemon with Chlorophyll and such that benefit from Sun. Infernape really appreciates it getting another boost to it's STAB Fire-moves, for example, as does Heatran. Rotom-H appreciates that as well. Then we go back to stuff like Exeggutor, Tangrowth, and Jumpluff getting a boost... Plus, then you have the bulky waters becoming a lot less threatening to the fire types all of a sudden in the Sun, with their STAB moves both essentially becoming neutral to each other, with the result of them having to rely on their other moves, which doesn't work so well in the case of some of the Bulky Waters. It really is too much.

Beyond that, all it's doing is stopping one weather condition (and only that if it's actually the slower Pokemon, should both of them leading... and since a lot of the spreads are looking faster than Ttar, it doesn't look like it will work to well there), just to become an abuser of a different form of weather itself. Again, I'd rather take a more wide focus, and though Drought certainly has wide effects, they're not focused on the areas central to this concept.

 

[Deck Knight]

I'd like to suggest Drought as an ability. Drought would have the primary effect of stopping Sand Storm, which is a prevalent source of secondary damage. Stopping Sand Storm would make him a thorn in the side of stall teams (who rely on secondary damage) as well, so it would really help him achieve his objective of stopping the secondary. This is especially feasible since he has the typing to switch in on and beat most Tyranitar. It would have the added bonus of nullifying his water weakness, so TTar can't beat CAP9 with Aqua Tail.

Perma-sun wouldn't be broken (while Perma-rain probably would be) because most pokemon who benefit from it have shallow movepools, bad offensive typing, and/or lack the combo speed/attack boost that rain offers those with Swift Swim. Also, TTar can switch in on Fire type moves and Solar Beam, and fire/grass resists aren't hard to find anyway.

Drought could also breathe new life into Pyroak, as well as giving some reason for Revenankh to try Moonlight.

Finally, it works quite well flavor-wise, since droughts occur in deserts (ground) and causing a drought is a nasty thing to do (dark).

Not only is Drought broken simply by its support function [we playtested this during Pyroak and found it to be the case], it bolsters the usability of a host of CAP9's counters, and your arguments for it focus entirely on CAP Pokemon, thus having absolutely zero relevance to anything we would learn in the playtesting period. Furthermore this pokemon is immune to Sandstorm and Sandstorm most assuredly helps it KO several secondary users. Water attacks are almost entirely predictable, this doesn't need a defense against them, especially one that drastically increases the ability of the opponent to apply offensive pressure, say through Salamence Outrage/Fire Blast combination, Heatran, Infernape, etc.

Your flavor reasoning is specious too. I sincerely hope you were just joking around.

 

[Walvren]

Personally, I don't think simply giving it something like Insomnia or Flash Fire will really be enough to fulfill the concept, as it'll still only be able to actually deal with a very small number of secondary moves. Thus, something like Guts, Magic Guard, or Auto-Magic Coat is preferable to me, so it'll be able to handle a larger variety of secondary effects without much worry.

So far, CAP9 can deal with Trick, Twave and Sandstorm. It might be little, but the idea is that its stats will give it elbow room to punish secondary users in general. (Also, it was never said in the concept that it had to cover as much as possible. Otherwise we'd have chosen Steel) An ability that helps CAP9 use its stats to do its punishing is vital. A simple immunity does the job.

Flash Fire is definitely inferior to Guts, just as you say, but Insomnia gives CAP9 the power to be more proactive in its destruction of the secondary users.

 

[Naxte]

So far, CAP9 can deal with Trick, Twave and Sandstorm. It might be little, but the idea is that its stats will give it elbow room to punish secondary users in general. (Also, it was never said in the concept that it had to cover as much as possible. Otherwise we'd have chosen Steel) An ability that helps CAP9 use its stats to do its punishing is vital. A simple immunity does the job.

Flash Fire is definitely inferior to Guts, just as you say, but Insomnia gives CAP9 the power to be more proactive in its destruction of the secondary users.

True, but really... to get to the gist of it, I just don't want this thing to be inferior to Fidgit in fulfilling a concept that wasn't even it's own, with us having already seen how something with the extent of Fidgit's ability to handle status interacts with the users of it. Vital Spirit Fidgit is immune to sleep and T-wave, resists Stealth Rock, is immune to Poison, absorbs Toxic Spikes, and doesn't care much about Burns since when it does attack (and usually it's doing something like using Encore, spinning, or setting up hazards of its own), it's more of a special-attacker.

Simply giving CAP9 something like Insomnia would still quite possibly leave Fidgit being the overall better choice. Thus, I'd personally prefer something like Auto-Magic Coat or something akin to that to make it fulfill the concept to the best of it's ability and push the concept more to the limits as a result, instead of ending up with something akin to Fidgit (in the respect of it's ability to absorb status) once again.

Edit: @ProfPeanut: Eh... If we were to go with something like that, I'd prefer it to be a bit more broad. Spikes isn't the most common entry affect after all, and it's just a chance of the effect occurring--it isn't even guaranteed. Thus, a better ability would be "any move this Pokemon makes has a 65% chance of eliminating any entry-hazards on it's side of the field" so it can also get rid of Stealth Rock and Toxic Spikes in the same go. Since it's only a chance anyway, there's not much chance of it being broken or anything, so I don't see the reason to not take it to that extent.

 

[beej]

So far, CAP9 can deal with Trick, Twave and Sandstorm. It might be little, but the idea is that its stats will give it elbow room to punish secondary users in general. (Also, it was never said in the concept that it had to cover as much as possible. Otherwise we'd have chosen Steel) An ability that helps CAP9 use its stats to do its punishing is vital. A simple immunity does the job.

Flash Fire is definitely inferior to Guts, just as you say, but Insomnia gives CAP9 the power to be more proactive in its destruction of the secondary users.

Yeah I really don't like this reasoning. The whole point of the CAP project is to learn new things, and for that reason it's kind of our duty to push the limits of the metagame. Whether or not a simple immunity "does the job" is irrelevant when we have something that can do the job and more. While it's important not go completely overboard, being too conservative with what we give our Pokemon is a really dangerous thing and it's something that we consistently seem to fall victim to.

While it's not as safe as Insomnia, Auto-Magic Coat is new and metagame-shifting, and I believe it is the way to reap the maximum amount of lessons out of this CAP project. It doesn't matter whatsoever whether the concept itself implies that we need to cover as much as possible, because I would argue that CAP *itself* implies that we should be covering as much as possible with the concept given to us.

 

[Scoopapa]

Your flavor reasoning is specious too. I sincerely hope you were just joking around.

I only mentioned it to point out that there wasn't a flavor contradiction, so I guess you could call that joking around. I'm not sure what you thought you would do if I wasn't, but I guess I glad you were so sincere in hoping for the best.

To all: I was unaware that drought had been tested and deemed broken, had I known this, I wouldn't have suggested it.

Guts seems like an effective way to punish burn and poison users, creating an offensive behemoth with great typing. Quick Feet could be a cool alternative too, depending how the stats turn out.

Auto Magic Coat seems likely to be broken, since it trashes pretty much every secondary move with no risk other than switching in. Magic Coat is cool with prediction, where it becomes a strategic choice. Auto Magic Coat would trash strategy, becoming a status move panacea that would make Clefable jealous. It's just too much with too little effort. That's not how a balanced game should work.

 

[Res Ipsa Loquitur]

There was already an extensive thread on Drought. Many people are of the opinion that even a level 1 Feebas with Drought would be overly centralizing in OU. Some suggested that maybe auto-sun that only lasts X turns might work ok, so we could try that, although I still don't like it for reasons articulated by Deck Knight.

For the first time in this CAP, Deck Knight and I are actually pretty much on the same page. I like the Strikes Back, and was planning to suggest a similar custom ability, one that always sends entry hazards back, even on the switch-in. Deck Knight's is fine with me too, though.

As for abilities that already exist, I like the ones that grant status immunity by encouraging self-inflicted status. Shed Skin encourages Rest, which is one way, but a problem for the Revenankh reason. This causes me to favor Guts and Poison Heal. I disagree that Poison Heal is "too defensive," as Breloom comes upside many teams like a tube sock full of rusty wood screws. If CAP9 ends up hitting "only" as hard as Breloom, that's pretty ok.

I also think that Magic Guard is fine, but it restricts the move pool. Fortunately, I can't think of any powerful recoil moves CAP9 can't live without, so it seems ok. It would allow a Life Orb sweeper to do some damage, but without Clefable's insane sturdiness I can't imagine it being that terrible. Just don't give it Extremespeed. Often, the opponent will just roll out a fast sweeper like Starmie or Infernape to OHKO, rather than wearing the thing down, making freedom from Life Orb recoil less relevant. Since this would lead to such different builds, I would favor a CAP9 with two abilities: Magic Guard and one of Guts/Poison Heal. This is assuming Deck Knight's ability or a similar one doesn't get used.

 

[ninja death strike]

There are two custom abilities that I think have excellent potential.

DeckKinghts' Strikes Back ability would certainly discourage the use of secondary moves. However I think all secondary moves would completely overpower CAP9. Anything that effects only stats shouldn't work (Sword Dance, Agility, Screens). If CAP9 gets rapid spin this would also give him the option to come in on Stealth Rock or Spikes, get a free set on his opponent's side of the field and then spin away the hazards on his side. I'm still a little worried that it might be too powerful though. Especially given CAP9 stat rating. I guess not being immune to status is a discouragement, but it still seems like it might be a bit much.

The other custom abilities I liked was Mysteriousfellow's Unlucky. Not only does it fit wonderfully with the dark theme (not that that's important), but adding an immediate 20% reduction to the accuracy of all non-damaging moves would allow CAP9 to mess with secondary moves without being broken. WoW and Hypnosis are now essentially a coin flip. As a lead CAP9 would threaten to kill all suicide leads before they could do anything useful. Would Roserade risk trying to sleep or even spike with a large chance of failure? I think Unlucky definitely deserves some consideration.

If we're going with already existing abilities, Guts would be the most helpful. Insomnia, sticky hold, and klutz are decent choices as well.

 

[Maci12]

Out of the existing options, I believe that the following have the most to offer:

Levitate: Immunity to Toxic Spikes & Spikes, as well as Ground Attacks. Works well with out CAP as it has a SR resistence.

Magic Guard: I'm on tenuous ground here. The suggested spreads have mostly had base attack stats of 110+, so something that could stop LO recoil and have attacks that come off that stat could be seriously overpowered, in addition to being status immune.

Poison Heal: I like the idea of Poison Heal, it disables LO recoil, adds to Leftovers, but Poison is a rather rare status to find outside of stall, so its hard to implement this WITHOUT giving it Toxic Orb (which, of course, totally works =P). It guards it against every other status which is a definite plus.

Guts: I love Guts too. I think that on a pokemon with such an attack stat (and possibly speed stat from a lot of the spreads I have seen so far), it could be extremely useful, and encourage people to stop using secondary out of pure fear that out CAP will come in and kick their ass. Also because CAP 9 is immune to the most common form of paralysis (Thunder Wave), it doesn't need to worry about it as much as other user.

Quick Feet: There have been some spreads with higher attack and lower speed (mine-ISH, as well as many others), and they could greatly benefit from getting a speed boost to scare the shit out of people so they don't want to use secondary =P.
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One Custom Idea:

Balanced Marvel Scale: Marvel Scale works brilliantly on Milotic because it has kick ass Special Defense (Base 130), and respectable health (Base 95). The submitted spreads so far have more balanced defenses (around the 80-95 area on either) and thus they could use a boost to both. What I suggest is instead of having 50% just go to defense, increase both defenses by 25% so that you get an overall bulkier CAP who can still do a crapload of damage.

 

[Magmortified]

I actually really like Beej's Auto-Magic Coat suggestion. Simply because it works really well as an active deterrent for the secondary. Abilities such as Guts can passively stop the secondary (since you can't be statused if you've already burned yourself) and give benefits, but Auto-Magic Coat actually makes your opponent think twice about using the secondary in the first place. "Should I use Toxic if CAP9 could just switch in and force it back at me?"

I think it could probably use some more discussion as to the specifics. When it should apply (only on the switch-in, permanently, etc.), what it should apply to (status only, entry hazards and status, everything real Magic Coat applies to, etc.) to balance out usefulness against being broken. But otherwise, I feel Auto-Magic Coat could be a really strong contender for ability here.

After Auto-Magic Coat, Guts is solid also. It provides offensive benefits while allowing you to absorb your opponent's status (if you're packing Flame Orb) or make them think twice about using WoW. Guts also provides Pseudo-Trick Protection by statusing the opposing Tricker, though I'm not sure how much benefit you'll get from that since Rotom and the like are probably going to eat a Pursuit later.

 

[VKCA]

I'm opposed to insomnia, it doesn't really punish the enemy, besides giving you a free switch. And its not like insomnia will decrease the use of sleep.

"Auto magic coat" though sounds very interesting. Opponent set's up early and risks cap nine coming in or set up late causing less damage.
Guts and quickfeet also both sound interesting.