Suspect Test Process Stage Three - Version 2.0!

I've played suspect and I've been using the Yache berry version of chomp. The Yache berry works pretty well except if I have to face a scarf'd chomp.

So far I've noticed chomp's destruction as a revenge killer.
Also, a lot of people seem to carry a magnezone paired with chomp.

Lastly, I've noticed a lot of lum berry metagross leads. They work pretty well.
 
Deucalion2 said:
Garchomp isn't sweeping, and if it is sweeping, it's a sure sign you're playing badly. Garchomp certainly shouldn't be considered Uber under the Offensive characteric, as if you pack the right Pokemon you shouldn't really be losing more than one Pokemon per match to a sweeper Garchomp. Garchomp's real strength is as a revenge killer.
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I agree. I haven't seen Garchomp perform that well in the sweeper role, personally, and certainly not at the extent at which it breaks the offensive characteristic. Personally I think Garchomp appears to slot in very nicely into the OU metagame; it's the sort of check for Steel-types that I've been missing, and it can function as a sweeper, revenge-killer or lead, none of which are too difficult to handle, but then I never thought it was Uber originally. Naturally it's being used most, I assume due to a combination of notoriety, nostalgia and SEXP, but I don't think that anybody is still arguing that that is indicative of Uber status. In short, Garchomp is, from my experience, pretty predictable, vaguely interesting to face and undoubtedly top-tier. But Uber? I doubt it. If it comes down to nothing else, I honestly far prefer this metagame to the current Standard play.

Manaphy... I don't really know where to put it. It's been underwhelming on my team and certainly quite awkward to deal with at times by reasonably good opponents. Not as long-lasting as it seemed during the secluded test, but I feel still a tricky customer. Not Uber, just something I have trouble with. Hmm...

Latias: No comment.

Today, every single team with Garchomp has Magnezone with it. Most of those teams also carry Brongzong, who happens to be about the one thing which can stop Garchomp 100% of the time. 3 slots per team centralised around Garchomp.
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So... like most teams with sweeper Scyther in UU carry a rapid spinner, a stealth rocker and something to take its weaknesses? I don't see your point.

Garchomp, as you probobly summaried from the 'Zone to help Chomp, Sandstream, Chomp, and Bronzong to best Chomp on every team' thing before, is Uber. It's in a whole other class to Manaphy and Latias. Usually, when a pokemon fares well in Ubers, especially when it's weak to a common attacking type there (x4 to Ice, x2 to Dragon), and it's stats are not as large as other Ubers, yet it is still highly used and sucessful, that's usually a sign of being Uber. When it's sweeping in a OU-like metagame prepared for it, that's a sign of Uberness.
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Scizor, Tyranitar and Forretress perform well in Ubers, as do a number of Pokemon in OU. There's also Lucario. And, if it weren't for Rayquaza, Salamence would probably be added to that list. Plenty of Pokemon do well in Uber and aren't strong enough to break OU. Second point, Garchomp isn't really sweeping, not if you don't count running a scarf and killing two weakened Pokemon at the end of a game as 'sweeping', nor locking itself into Outrage and getting itself revenge-killed. Perhaps, overall, it's better than Latias or Manaphy. But all three do completely different things, which is why nobody can compare Lucario and Salamence as individual Pokemon.
 
So far this metagame has actually been quite manageable and enjoyable. One item I have seen which could become problematic as the metagame develops is that controlling the weather often means you will control the game. Right now having the weather constitutes a distinct advantage, but if it goes further into the range of the Manaphy test - in which controlling the weather almost always meant that you won the game, and not being able to change the weather simply wasn't an option - the metagame could become stale and frustrating.

So that's something to watch out for =)
 
TAY said:
So far this metagame has actually been quite manageable and enjoyable. One item I have seen which could become problematic as the metagame develops is that controlling the weather often means you will control the game. Right now having the weather constitutes a distinct advantage, but if it goes further into the range of the Manaphy test - in which controlling the weather almost always meant that you won the game, and not being able to change the weather simply wasn't an option - the metagame could become stale and frustrating.

So that's something to watch out for =)
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I have been noticing the same thing,
I have taken to adding rain dance/sunny day to pokemon on my team just to counter other wether effect's (it really works! no one expects it)
 
Oh goodness gracious for the second Stage 3 test!

I'm really glad that our Garchomp is still part of the list. That less number of people registering for the Suspect test really sure did took a bite on the decision making. Alright, I've decided I will take part in the test this time, just to make the impossible the possible.

If Manaphy and/or Garchomp somehow manage to break free of the vonluntary Uber status, then the Hyper Offence themed teams will surely make for an instant hit of the metagame.
 
I'm running a fairly successful (I think, I seem to win most of my games) stall-based team in this meta. It is pretty different than traditional stall as Garchomp and Manaphy are tougher to take than the OU threats, but I seem to have them checked decently.

So yeah, stall is still viable, it just has to adapt.
 
latias is still more of a threat then garchomp, wasnt really getting much luck though faced people i lost to over and over again.
i see azelfs. taking advantage of a glaring weakness to turn the tables.
garchomp has not had all its own way
Garchomp lost 100% of its health.
Mass's Garchomp fainted.
The Yache Berry weakened Ice Punch's power!
decided running Tar is dumb as good as it is, might as well lose the sandstorm and use other pokes to my advantage
 
Scarf Chomp is a beast right now. Killing unsuspecting Latias and just being what can be considered the physical ScarfTran is awesome.

But Manaphy is easily hammared on by Chomp and Latias, who are basically on every single team. I remember back in the Manaphy Testing days I had some sucess with Agility pass to Mana, I might attempt that sometime again. In this enviorment, I do not see Manaphy as an uber.

Latias is doing just as well as it has in OU, nothing to say really, though its very common.

I would say one of the best pokemon right now is Skarmory. It is nearly fearless of Garchomp (any that lack a strong Fire attack) and can turn Scizors that are trying to revenge your Chomp or Latias into a delicous turn to put in spikes. Spikes are very powerful right now with Chomp, a main component of most teams, and the still often seen Manaphy on the ground getting picked off by them. I had a match where surprising Skarm with a Flamethrower on a physical attacker was the difference between victory and an absolute loss.

Also, I'mma going to try hard to be a voter again, I like having that pwnage little checkmark box under my name =)
 
From my experience Garchomp isn't sweeping teams, don't get me wrong it's still a top sweeper but not taking everything out at once, mainly because of latias and scizor to check it. It's probably the best revenge killer no doubt about it.
 
nah garchomp is doing very little to mine either, i usualy find a way around it
is latias killing pokes i set up so cheaply thats annoying, the skill of getting into position to set up is wiped out so easily.
i would love to be a voter buit shoddy has been less then friendly (how the hell am i supposed to test if i battle 10 people in 20 odd battles? espoecially as my rating would be far better if it wasn't for repeats against the people i lost to) now deviation is too low, its not 100 yet though.
i know whati would vote uber already though.
 
With Latias/Skarm everywhere, Garchomp really can't do too much in this meta. I usually only get one kill of him before being promptly killed by Latias. Locking yourself into Outrage is almost suicide now lol.
 
I think I'm seeing more latias than garchomp. She really makes it hard to use, mine sits in the stables for most of the game. I dropped manaphy completely, it's really underwhelming to me. A poke I've liked so far now is LO jolteon. Running thunderbolt/shadow ball/hp ice it can really trounce all 3 suspects, and a lot of chomps switch into thunderbolt expecting specs. I threw on fake tears as well if I want to get gutsy prediction. I just hope I can get over this rng bout I've been under lately(I had one person critical ko 3 of my pokes in one game).

This whole "GARCHOMP IS ON EVERY TEAM BAWW" isn't holding much weight to me. First of all it's not on every team, and second of all that's not a reason to vote uber(you gonna vote scizor uber now too?). To me if latias is ou then garchomp is ou. I wouldn't mind seeing both of them gone either.
 
scizor is not uber
and i have had what? 60% of battles with azelf garchomp latias AND manaphy all on the opponants team, and add another 10 with infernape instead of azelf
seriously
shadow ball miss
HP ice miss
HP ice miss
complete utter tosh, did manage a clean 6-0 with a vire though, i dot see what testing is achieving here if i'm facing more or les the same team every time and the sheer number of mirrors isn't going to help testing, just because it is TESTING doesnt mean test all 3 at once it sort of defys the point as we only find out which of the 3 is better half the time.
metagame is slowly becoming even more stale then before, getting some joy with WoW spam on garchomp though.

is the ladder broken? its shwoing 2 people with 0.0
 
I do believe the ladder is a little messed up because by looking at it I am having a hard time understanding why so many people with lower ratings than me are on it but I am not.

I think it's a little foolish to say every game is a mirror match and everyone is using the same pokes when that is entirely untrue. Why would anyone complain about Chomp or Latias being on every team when the whole point of the ladder is to test these Pokemon.
 
If you are makng an argument that Garchomp is uber in sand, so is Gliscor, Froslass in hail etc. The point of testing is to see if the pokemon is uber under the conditions of the test. Just because there are a lot of Garchomp, and similar teams, doesn't make it uber. Thats like saying Kyogre is too good for ubers.. Garchomp is easily stopped by a number of pokemon like bronzon and skarm. and it needs magnezone support for them.

About the ladder, you need below 100 "real" deviation. That is only taken at the end of the day, 23:30 PDT iirc.
 
the problem with everyone using the same pokes is, it doesnt test the poke on a wide selection of pokes, NOT every team is the same (encountered a few differant things) its just people rushing to throw them in. its all well and good seeing how you function with them, but 50% of testing is seeing how it faces other pokes, i dont want them in my team, i'm happy with what i have unless i see some reason why i need one of them i wont use them, i dont NEED them to test, but its still testing if i'm fighting them, but there just isn't any mix, i think it is more benifical if the pokes are tested in a more diverse enviroment.
and garchomp IS ALMOST on every team, i have no use for it yet :P
 
I still don't see your point because on the standard ladder it's Scizor and Salamence on nearly every team, the only difference I notice on Suspect is that people have basically just thrown Chomp in over Mence. I don't see how using the same Pokemon is a bad thing. Players will use the Pokemon that will let them win, and if that Pokemon happens to be Garchomp then why not.
 
I agree that Garchomp hardly seems to be wreaking the havoc that everyone said he would in OU. Personally I'd love to see him go down to OU, if only so that people would run more Magnezone and I wouldn't have to see Scizor anymore (Chomps lack of a monstrous priority makes him easier to KO IMO). Any balanced OU team can adjust to Chomp IMO, all they have to do is switch their physical wall with Bronzong and Chomp is checked.

Manaphy on the other hand can't truly be tested in this environment. Many Garchomp teams run sand, which really makes Manaphy hard to use unless it's on a dedicated Rain Dance team, which I have yet to see on the ladder. But to be honest the previous argument that Suicune is better than Manaphy is dead on.

Latias and Garchomp are like that disfunctional couple in High School that keeps breaking up and getting back together... i.e. they are so annoying they deserve each other. If Chomp is Uber, so is Latias. If Latias is OU, so is Garchomp.
 
im using scarfchomp, and while its not sweeping or anything i find that scarfchomp can check pretty almost every single threat in the metagame (i have outrage, eq, stone edge, dragon claw) chomp beats DDmence, DDgyara, SDnape, SDluc (somewhat), and dragon claw is there to prevent being locked into outrage. latias and scizor, arguably their #1 and #2 counters, are easily handled by scizor and magnezone respectively (seriously, since anything other than draco meteor and bullet punch is a stupid idea) except i realized my team is really weak to RD, thank god i havnt faced one yet

not sure if this means its uber or not, doesnt really fit any of the 3 categories =/

oh and stating my surprise at the ridiculous number of dual screen azelf leads, probably gonna drop my meta =/

and also coronis says you need a deviation of <100 but is there any minimum rating?
 
This sounds awsome, I am definately going to try this for the first time.

I really do not see Garchomp as overpowering either, we'll see...
 
erm, im really not getting the whole "garchomp isn't that great atm" ideas. is it just me? over 50% of my games are decided by garchomp, either mine or the opponents. although a lot of these games are fun, I don't even really mind when things like my "chomp wins the speed tie and misses dc and I lose".
 
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