The MMA/Boxing/Fighting Sports Thread

[Trax]

That's after you've yourself noted "stoppage aside".

You might agree or not with the ref's decision but there is one thing you certainly can't say, which is that Paulo Thiago ran through Kos. He was getting outpointed something fierce beforehand.

Kos was grazing him with some strikes, the Knockdown alone would've won that round at a bare minimum, plus I would say that Kos on his back is virtually worthless.

I say stoppage aside because it was pretty heavily disputed, I thought it was fair enough.

Can Marius even make 265? I remember him huge.

He's round about 277 now, so I'd assume he could.

 

[Shinryu]

Well, what did everyone think of UFC 107? Didn't get to watch it (>.>), but I did check up the play-by-play on Sherdog. Impressions:

Penn/Sanchez did sound more epic that I thought it would be. I had a feeling BJ would be dominant, but not to the extent it sounded like he performed at. And that kick to finish it looks sweet (http://www.sherdog.com/pictures/gallery/fighter/f_15906/102809/48).

Mir/Kongo, meh. Lame Mir got such a quick and easy win.

Fitch/Pierce sounded fun, though Fitch probably regretted deciding to trade blows with Pierce there in the final round, sounds like he almost got KOed from it.

Florian/Guida, well I was rooting for Guida, so my opinion is a bit biased. But Florian did as he should, choked him out.

 

[Trax]

BJ mauled another crappy fighter, and nobody was surprised.

Fitch did his usual thing until the last round.. man alive does he need to remember his head movement.

Struve/Buentello was a decent fight, I am more and more reaching the conclusion that Struve will be a monster in a few years.

Mir seems super motivated, but still, I am not impressed with a submission over a guy with near zero grappling skills. Mir vs Big Nog part II please.

Belcher made a statement in the Gouveia fight.

Also, keep an eye on Johny Hendricks.

 

[mirza]

Unless your name's Prime Jens Pulver you're not going to beat Penn at 155 :)

Mir looks like he put on 20 lbs and it's not fat either. Good win.

Fitch gets another UD, talk about the safest bet in the history of MMA.

EDIT: Mariusz must be a huge football (soccer) fan!

 

[Trax]

Unless your name's Prime Jens Pulver you're not going to beat Penn at 155 :)

It's sad that Jens was never the same after Ludwig knocked him out.

I think Penn's mystique is getting a little overinflated at this stage, he's beaten 3 guys outside the top 10 and 2 who are possibly in the lower half of it (certainly not in the top 3), and looked good doing it. That's what you'd expect of a top 5 guy though.

EDIT: Mariusz must be a huge football (soccer) fan!

Yeah, it looked like a guy chasing a soccer ball eh?

I think he watched the Sakuraba/Williams fight (Sakuraba leg kicked the boxer into a confused state then took him down).

 

[Vineon]

UFC lightweights are definitely underrated in most top 10s. Considering they only get to fight similarly underrated UFC LWs, they dont have much of a chance to move up in the ranks.

The simple fact they have an incredibly one dimensional fighter like Aoki ranked so highly demonstrates how messed up those rankings are. Not mentionning how insanely long they kept Gomi there when he kept looking like fucking crap in his fights.

I don't think there is any LW anywhere that would cause much problems to BJ Penn, not in the UFC, not elsewhere, and I'm convinced many UFC LWs including Diego Sanchez would have a lot of success fighting in japanese promotions.

 

[mirza]

Actually Trax I was reffering to the way most soccer fans fight since they throw kicks nonstop when they get into fights. Soccer players are even worse lol

I agree with you Vin on UFC LW's being underrated. As for the asian fighters, most of them would be undersized against most of UFC's LW's anyways, so I don't think they're that far ahead.

 

[Trax]

I agree with you Vin on UFC LW's being underrated. As for the asian fighters, most of them would be undersized against most of UFC's LW's anyways, so I don't think they're that far ahead.

Actually the only one who would really be undersized relative to the UFC LWs is Joachim Hansen (who is pretty much a natural LW).

Aoki is around 170, Kawajiri is similar (if not bigger), and Alvarez is bigger than either of them. Sure, none of them are Gleison Tibau, but that guy is ridiculously big - Tibau would be big at welterweight.


For a size reference you can all (hopefully) understand, here is Aoki vs Sotiropoulos in Shooto -- the fight is at 170, George has since dropped some mass to make LW in the UFC.

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x3nj4f_shinya-aoki-vs-george-sotiropoulos_sport


In lighter news: ufc 108 is shaping up nicely despite injuries.

Hazelett vs Daley
Dos Santos vs Gilbert Yvel (Yvel by coma inducing head kick, btw)
Rashad vs Thiago Silva
VMAT vs Cantwell should be fun too, VMAT by mauling though.

 

[mirza]

Eh the guy's 5 foot 11 so I can see how he'd look skinny for a LW but he's still a fucking twig. Maybe it's just me but I could never rank a skinny, almost completely one-dimensional, no power fighter over the guy with some of the best hands, take-down defense, and great BJJ games in all of MMA. Ever.

I can see a good few guys at UFC's 155 that'd beat Aoki's face into the ground. Don't get me wrong though the guy's a fucking stud at subs, but that's ALL he's got.

edit:

 

[Vineon]

I would feel so bad throwing this guy up against someone like Thiago Alves.

 

[Shinryu]

Off-topic, but I remember the first time I saw Gleison Tibau at LW, I was like damn, that mini hulk is welterweight? No way...

But yes, he is huge for a LW...

 

[Trax]

I would feel so bad throwing this guy up against someone like Thiago Alves.

But really, are there any lightweights you'd feel good throwing to Alves, urge to seem them mauled aside.

I'm pretty confident that no 155 pounder on the planet can beat GSP, Fitch or Alves at 170 and despite GSP and Fitch being better fighters I think Alves would actually do more damage and end the fight quicker simply due to his style.

 

[mirza]

Penn vs Alves is a fight I've wanted to see for a long time. Penn vs Fitch would be interesting too since Fitch is almost (no disrespect to Fitch) a lesser GSP.

 

[Trax]

I can see a good few guys at UFC's 155 that'd beat Aoki's face into the ground. Don't get me wrong though the guy's a fucking stud at subs, but that's ALL he's got.

Aoki can wrestle pretty well too, he's in the same boat as Sakuraba in some senses; people don't realize the man can actually wrestle (Sakuraba could also strike reasonably well, not that he used it much -- but he was handling Belfort on the feet in the second round of their fight).

I disagree that BJ has "some of the best hands" - his technique is nothing to write home about (not to say it isn't good, but it's not amazing), however he has natural KO power, is virtually impossible to cut and has a solid chin which does make him a constant menace standing. People (some people here, some elsewhere) talk about his striking like he's Masato or Buakaw, he's nowhere NEAR that good.

Edit: most of the Dynamite 2009 card is up at http://nightmareofbattle.wordpress.com/ (which, btw, is THE source for Japanese MMA news).

I hope Izumi doesn't fight like an idiot this time though, his debut was fucking painful to watch. Sakurai vs Gono should be a great fight too.

 

[mirza]

Penn completely worked the best WW in the world on their feet the first time they fought. Illegal pokes or not he worked GSP in every exchange.

He's never been rocked.

He gets through fights without a nick on his face.

He slips punches and counterpunches better than anybody you'll ever see step in the cage with him. IMO this all credits him with pretty good boxing ability.

Also, there's more to boxing than just technique. If technique alone won fights then Fedor should have been put to sleep vs. Arlovski. Same thing goes with other really technical fighters. Sure, Aoki's a skilled grappler but he doesn't have the size or power to get someone like Penn to the ground. And even if he did, what's he gonna do?

 

[mirza]

EDIT: changed link:
http://forums.mmajunkie.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=20377

This is going to be nasty. A Russian mobster with Nazi tats is going to be fighting a Polish national hero. I'll be cheering for Mariusz though his chances of winning this fight are VERY slim.

This fight is definantly appealing though lol

One of the best strikers in the HW division takes on the world's strongest man.















































Poor Mariusz.



edit: Henderson will be taking on Shields. After he gets killed I think Shields is going back to 170.

http://www.fiveknuckles.com/mma-new...inalized-for-April-CBS-Strikeforce-event.html

 

[Shiv]

107 was sweet!

Loved the Penn/Sanchez fight and I thought Mir did amazingly. I mean sure it was a sub win but he rocked Kongo with a pretty good punch right off the bat, which isn't easy to do.

 

[Trax]

Penn completely worked the best WW in the world on their feet the first time they fought. Illegal pokes or not he worked GSP in every exchange.

He's never been rocked.

He gets through fights without a nick on his face.

I assume you're referring to the first BJ/GSP fight, you know, the one a year before Serra destroyed GSP on the feet.

Pulver had him visibly staggered.

And yes he doesn't cut / bruise much, he has very tough skin.

Also, there's more to boxing than just technique. If technique alone won fights then Fedor should have been put to sleep vs. Arlovski. Same thing goes with other really technical fighters. Sure, Aoki's a skilled grappler but he doesn't have the size or power to get someone like Penn to the ground. And even if he did, what's he gonna do?

Fedor doesn't use boxing technique for his punches in most fights -- that "wild looping punch" as several idiot commentators refer to it is called a Casting Punch and is commonly used in combat Sambo to set up throw and clinch opportunities (thus Fedor tossing Rogers down like a rag doll amongst others).

At any rate, RE: technique.

Fedor doesn't move directly backwards with his chin out (which has cost Arlovski both the Rogers and Rizzo fights).

Fedor doesn't drop his hands or forget to defend properly when he has his opponent hurt (which has cost Arlovski twice -- Fedor and Timmy II).

Those are 2 massive technical holes in Andrei's game.

 

[Trax]

And Gil Melendez just avenged his only remaining unavenged loss in dominant fashion.

Lawal also hammered Whitehead in brutal fashion. And as I expected, Jacare overwhelmed Lindland.

 

[mirza]

Casting punches aren't used in boxing....my point was that Arlovski is a much more sound boxer than Fedor. The fact that he was KOed on his feet only shows that you don't have to be more technical with your hands to still win a stand-up battle.

I've been working on casting punches myself and trust me, they'd get you flat out murdered in an actual boxing match. It's just that Fedor is fluid with his style, and it's extremely difficult to gauge his timing. Also I think everyone is so scared of his trips they don't pay as much attention to his striking. Arlovski got very careless and paid for it.

As for GSP getting KOed by Serra... I'm 100% certain he's still the best striker at 170. He got caught just like anybody else and it was his lack of heart that lost him that fight. Do you think him getting beat on his feet makes Serra the better striker? I'd say it would if Serra worked him for several rounds. Keep in mind that anybody can be KOed with a clean shot. Anyhow GSP wins that fight 99/100 times.

He's dropped everyone he's fought since that fight on his feet. Alves didn't do anything to him whenever they traded, and he was considered by many to be GSP's toughest fight to date.

Penn vs Pulver where Pulver won was such a long time ago it's irrelevant to how good either of these two are today. The rematch was pointless since Pulver was already long past his prime and Penn was apparently just approaching his. The guy's a different animal today.

Anyway I'm not gonna bother with this.

As for the SF event, King Mo needs an actual challenge and not another out of shape can.

Jacare is starting to look a little less one-dimensional but Lindland is like 30 years past his prime.

Scott Smith never fails to entertain or show more and more heart every time he steps in the cage.

I think Fedor will be fighting in the spring and it'll be free on CBS (I think.) Whenever Fedor's on a card, so is Mousasi so I'm already hyped

 

[cook]

man the april strikeforce card is looking pretty exciting. between fedor/werdum, i expect a knockout by fedor similar to arlovski/rogers, but i wouldnt be surprised with some ground and pound from guard either. henderson/shields is exciting too, but i cant see shields doing anything but shooting 20 times and backing far away from henderson every time he gets stuffed.

is anyone else pumped as hell for ufc 110? 108/109 are kinda blah, but 110 is a pretty stacked card. nog and wandy are going to tear it up. i doubt cro cop is going to win, but you can always hope. Left head kick for the win!

 

[Trax]

man the april strikeforce card is looking pretty exciting. between fedor/werdum, i expect a knockout by fedor similar to arlovski/rogers, but i wouldnt be surprised with some ground and pound from guard either. henderson/shields is exciting too, but i cant see shields doing anything but shooting 20 times and backing far away from henderson every time he gets stuffed.

He might also do what Misaki did to Hendo; move away from the power shot and jab him to death.

is anyone else pumped as hell for ufc 110? 108/109 are kinda blah, but 110 is a pretty stacked card. nog and wandy are going to tear it up. i doubt cro cop is going to win, but you can always hope. Left head kick for the win!

Cro Cop should win by punches, even if he's in the twilight of his career he's still more refined than Rothwell.

I'm interested in what Nog and Wandy do, Wandy is definitely not as sharp as he once was and I suspect he'll be fodder for a Bisping title shot. Nog is up in the air too, he could still be the Nog we've seen over the last 4-5 years, but then again he might not, I think he's a good shot to beat Cain though.


UFC 108 lost some interest for me though, Cantwell is out of his the fight with Vlad.

 

[Vineon]

What the fuck is Shields doing fighting a much, much bigger Henderson.

O_O

Moreover, what would Dan prove by beating Shields?

 

[Trax]

What the fuck is Shields doing fighting a much, much bigger Henderson.

O_O

Moreover, what would Dan prove by beating Shields?

Not sure that Hendo is all that much bigger than Jake, Shields has packed on some mass in his (apparently temporary) move to Middleweight and Dan was never the biggest MW (infact for his bouts at 205 he tended to come in small, like 200ish) whereas to make WW Shields was a big cutter of weight -- take a look at his fight with Okami, admittedly a smaller version of Okami than exists today (though not by a lot) and they're fairly similar size.

As for why, I have no freaking idea.

 

[Vineon]

Well Lawler seemed a lot bigger to me than Shields when they fought and I'd definitely say Henderson is bigger than Lawler.