I think your comparison between Grass and Wood is quite similar to mine between Fossil and Rock. Grass has come to be the umbrella term in Pokemon for all Pokemon based on flora, even those including elements from wood (Abomasnow, Torterra). Similarly, Rock has come to be the umbrella term for all mineral-based Pokemon, including the fossils. However, I think Fossil is a more feasible type because there are already quite a few Pokemon who are related to fossils.
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Pokemon Black & White, aka Gen 5. Coming to Japan in Fall 2010.
- Thread starter Firestorm
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Persian has a tiny little dot on its head, and I normally wouldn't think of those orbs on Grumpig as "gems". Also, how do you explain Corsola and Probopass? They learn the move, and don't have anything remotely gem-like on them.
That's why I said you're missing the point. The interaction is not between my SR and yours, it's between my SR and your Rapid spin. It's like this:
My Swampert comes in, I set up SR
After 3 Switches, you get Starmie in, Rapid Spin
Result:
Me: I paid 1 Turn
You: You paid 1 Turn and took 3 hits from SR
After 4 more switches, I bring Swampert back in, set up SR.
After 2 more switches, you bring back in Starmie and Rapid Spin
Result:
Me: I paid 1 Turn
You: You paid 1 Turn and took 2 hits from SR
After 5 more switches, I bring Swampert back again, and SR
After 6 more switches, you bring back Starmie and Rapid Spin
Total Result:
Me: I paid 3 turns
You: paid 3 turns and took 11 hits from SR
This continues on until Swampert is taken out.
With this, you can clearly see that Starmie is fighting a losing battle. It'll never get the upper hand. It's exactly like recovering in the face of a 60% hitting attack.
You see? While the instances are stretched out, this is not a match up between your SR user and mine, it's a match between my SR user and your rapid spinner (since we are discussing the function of rapid spin). The fact is that your rapid spin will never break even against my SR. It is exactly like Recovering in the face of a 60% attack.
If I choose to not use Rapid Spin altogether, I can use my valuable turns to do things that may be more useful, like setting up or outright attacking. Those options at least have a chance of breaking even or more! Rapid Spin though, will always be losing against SR. This is the main fundamental reason why it's so bad.
You need to look at causation on both sides. Spinner's are shitty pokemon in part because Rapid Spin is shitty.
If Rapid Spin was a strategy that actually worked, than maybe pokemon like Donphan and Foretress would see more use-- they certainly have decent enough stats/typing. But, because Rapid Spin is a shitty strategy, it really isn't worth using them over say, Hippowdon or Skarmory.
Like I said, the biggest issue with Rapid Spin is not the chance of missing against ghosts. It's the fact that you are using up a turn to use it, and thus will never break even against Stealth Rock.
The only thing that can really change the situation is a means of Hazard Removal that can beat SR in terms of cost, either by costing less (not taking a turn to use) or by adding more value (Dealing a shit load of damage while removing the hazard at the same time).
Don't forget how Espeon's gem for some reason can't unleash power of any sort.
Amazing this comes from the exact person who had me waiting 30 minutes online to chech an SID, then told me he had the wrong FC. So, you want the IV system abolished, yet you ask me to help you with the RNG abuse?Tell me about it. It's something that leads to abuse anyway, since people will always find a way to crack whichever RNG system is chosen for the game, or make "legal hacks" with AR anyway. And the majority/the purists are stuck with countless hours of breeding just to get something competitive
Ok, here are my ideas for 5th gen:
Keep SR as it is, it keep threats as Salamence or Gyarados away from Uber, besides, for Nintendo, Doubles 4vs4 is the only known competitive metagame, where switching is incredibly rare
No new types, but help Poison type somehow, if not by changing effectiveness, at least giving them better moves
More Rock- Fighting- types Special moves, Aura Sphere is scarecely distribbuted, Focus Blast has awful accuary and Power Gem doesnt have enough power or distribution, so theres no reason not to have more
Has anyone brought up formes in here yet? (sorry, this thread doesn't need another topic). However, I think one of the problems brought up earlier is significant: that GF makes too many pokemon so that it becomes impossible to counter everything, and the metagame goes completely hyper offense. I think formes of old pokemon would be perfect, as the pokemon wouldn't change too much besides a change in stats here, or a type added/removed there. For example (I can't think of anything too good now, so don't yell at me for this one), I think the Regis with alternate formes could really make them and the metagame more exciting. The base stats could switch to create more offensive versions of the Regis, or a type/ability could be added to make them more capable defensive wise (all three have problems with Fighting- any ideas there?) It's just an idea to include more metagaming without adding too many new pokemon/changing the metagame too much.
I'd say adding a form is just like adding a new pokemon. I don't think anyone would argue that Rotom-A changed the game significantly. Looking at pokemon like Azelf-Mesprit-Uxie or Salamence v. Dragonite, one can see that just adjustments to stat distribution can completely change the way a pokemon functions, and thus completely alter what effect it has on the metagame.
For instance, players who tried flygon after Garchomp was banned can tell you that just the immunity to Earthquake (and spikes/t-spikes) and U-Turn makes the feel of flygon a lot different, and lets it function quite a bit differently.
For instance, players who tried flygon after Garchomp was banned can tell you that just the immunity to Earthquake (and spikes/t-spikes) and U-Turn makes the feel of flygon a lot different, and lets it function quite a bit differently.
Well, I don't know anyone who really likes this IV system. I guess anyone would at least prefer a smaller IV range than the current one (seriously, 32 possible IVs for each stat THEN Hidden Power THEN natures...).
I was thinking of some new attacks that will hopefully make some existing types useful and among other things:
-Poison is THE worst attacking move ever; even normal type attacks are superior due to the usefulness of Return and Fake Out for example. I'm not suggesting a change in the type effectiveness chart, but instead it should strengthen the usefulness of Toxic. I'm thinking of an attack with 5-10 PP, 50 BP, 70 accuracy, and inflicts Toxic upon contact. Any subsequent attacks that hit on a Pokemon inflicted with Toxic will increase the Toxic damage counter by 2. In addition, some currently existing poison attacks should inflict Toxic poison instead of regular poison, most notably Cross Poison and Sludge Bomb.
-What if Steel types got a physical equivalent of Charge Beam? Maybe call it Blade Dance? I don't know.
-Like I suggested earlier (but the post got deleted for some reason), an attacking move that inflicts the Taunt status upon contact. To make it less overpowering, give it low base power, 5-10 PP, and -1 priority to prevent regular Taunt from being obsolete. If needed, make it a Ghost-type move so that Normal types resist it.
-Poison is THE worst attacking move ever; even normal type attacks are superior due to the usefulness of Return and Fake Out for example. I'm not suggesting a change in the type effectiveness chart, but instead it should strengthen the usefulness of Toxic. I'm thinking of an attack with 5-10 PP, 50 BP, 70 accuracy, and inflicts Toxic upon contact. Any subsequent attacks that hit on a Pokemon inflicted with Toxic will increase the Toxic damage counter by 2. In addition, some currently existing poison attacks should inflict Toxic poison instead of regular poison, most notably Cross Poison and Sludge Bomb.
-What if Steel types got a physical equivalent of Charge Beam? Maybe call it Blade Dance? I don't know.
-Like I suggested earlier (but the post got deleted for some reason), an attacking move that inflicts the Taunt status upon contact. To make it less overpowering, give it low base power, 5-10 PP, and -1 priority to prevent regular Taunt from being obsolete. If needed, make it a Ghost-type move so that Normal types resist it.
Hmm, good point. I figure the general same counters could be used on the formes though, with general exceptions (i.e. a move added or an ability change) which wouldn't affect the game as much as stat changes or a type difference. It could be a sense of more defensive-based forms even, which brings me to my next point: if GameFreak reads anything about pokemon reviews/fans/sites (for good-to-know knowledge or something, haha), Smogon would be one of the first sites out there. I'm not saying that GameFreak is currently writing down everything we've said in the forums, but they probably know about competitive battling to some extent. My guess is that they would implement something in the game that doesn’t matter to the casual 8-year old gamers, but would affect the metagame considerably.
For example, look at natures. Do they affect any gamer at all? Not really (I never worried about it before competitive), but I’d say it helped out a lot with competitive battling. Another example is IV’s: they barely matter in an in-game environment, but are very important when battling. Hidden Power is another example (who uses it in in-game teams? I never knew it was a set type based on IV’s back then) that changes the metagame.
Therefore, my hypothesis for the 5th generation (please don’t yell at me too much!) is the inclusion of a lot more defensive based pokemon. If GameFreak looked at anything on the forums on any competitive battling site, they would find Pokemon that we consider to be “hyper offense”. Stall could come back and more balanced teams would, too. It calls for a more stable metagame, but it would be more of a challenge (at least, more like 3rd gen battling, which I never did). In addition, it would not affect the casual gamers at all in the sense that they will most likely use pokemon they find appealing or strong. So there’s my two cents. Last point: Hidden Power physical alternative for the win! Haha
For example, look at natures. Do they affect any gamer at all? Not really (I never worried about it before competitive), but I’d say it helped out a lot with competitive battling. Another example is IV’s: they barely matter in an in-game environment, but are very important when battling. Hidden Power is another example (who uses it in in-game teams? I never knew it was a set type based on IV’s back then) that changes the metagame.
Therefore, my hypothesis for the 5th generation (please don’t yell at me too much!) is the inclusion of a lot more defensive based pokemon. If GameFreak looked at anything on the forums on any competitive battling site, they would find Pokemon that we consider to be “hyper offense”. Stall could come back and more balanced teams would, too. It calls for a more stable metagame, but it would be more of a challenge (at least, more like 3rd gen battling, which I never did). In addition, it would not affect the casual gamers at all in the sense that they will most likely use pokemon they find appealing or strong. So there’s my two cents. Last point: Hidden Power physical alternative for the win! Haha
That's my selling point on the game. And, if the make a Fire-type SR, it needs to be either Napalm, or Magma Stones (something with Magma...).
What I think could work with Poison is for moves to have effects that ignore the type charts and/or do more damage to certain types. In example, Bonemerang could ignore Ground immunity, and Sky Uppercut could ignore Flying's resistance (which means Staraptor and Aerodactyl would be weak to it), or do 50% more damage to it.
While I could see every type getting 1-2 moves with this kind of effect, ignoring their "main resistance" (like Electric ignoring Ground, or Grass ignoring Fire), I think the one which could/should get the most moves is Poison. 1-2 moves for each type, being it a specific kind of poison for them; in example, Acid could not only ignore Steel's immunity, but also have a 50% bonus against it (or 100%, what have you); a new move called Acid Bomb, with 80 BP, would have the same effect and be the main response of Poison-type pokémon to Skarmory and friends. As long as these moves aren't learned by, well, all the Poison pokémon, I could see it being self-balanced (I mean, they still are Poison moves, they won't hit much for SE damage besides Grass and possibly the type related to its move effect).
...Unless, of course, they revamp Dragonbreath and make it 100BP and ignoring Steel's resistance.
I'd rather have Natural Gift not consuming the berry... Liechi Berry is a 80 BP Grass-type move, I guess every physical attacker in need of something to kill Swampert would also like the Attack boost in a pinch.
@Pokemon_Pimp--What the hell? Stall and tankish pokemon do not make a more stable metagame than hyper offensive ones. Every powerful OU pokemon brings a slightly different dimension to the meta, and represents its own type of threat.
A team that was trounced by Gyarados is no less trounced than one that got owned by Vaporeon.
A team that was trounced by Gyarados is no less trounced than one that got owned by Vaporeon.
Were Stall teams really that fun and good before or only within Gen4? I never understood the appeal of Stall and preferred a most offensive approach to things.
Someone mentioned their dislike towards new TM/HMs. IF GF felt the same way about it, my question would be which of the old TM/HM would they dump in order to make more room for new ones? Any existing move you want to see turned into a TM/HM?
Someone mentioned their dislike towards new TM/HMs. IF GF felt the same way about it, my question would be which of the old TM/HM would they dump in order to make more room for new ones? Any existing move you want to see turned into a TM/HM?
I seriously think that having it at 0 or higher in priority would be best for a damaging Taunt. You're giving it to slow Pokemon anyway, it's not like they could use Taunt any better.
I really do wish that would happen in Gen5. They're also the idea of using Arceus' plates to dictate what type Natural Gift is. Becomes 80 BP plus an addition 20% bonus.
It's weird to think another game is coming out soon when no new Pokemon have been shown yet.
I personally hope they add a Light/Holy type. It would make sense with Dark being around and it would kind of make sense as another Dragon weakness. They could also make it weak to Normal and balance that type a little bit too.
I personally hope they add a Light/Holy type. It would make sense with Dark being around and it would kind of make sense as another Dragon weakness. They could also make it weak to Normal and balance that type a little bit too.
I've been playing Crystal recently, and only having to care about gender is very refreshing.
Changing the IV system could be really annoying though. They've kept it through RSE to DP. If anything I'd imagine they'd make the RNG more difficult to crack in terms of the underlying basics.
I'm fairly certain there won't be other status-inflicting entry hazards though. Consider having Toxic Spikes and Magma Stones up at the same time when the opponent switches in lets say Vaporeon, is it Burned, or Poisoned?
They kept the TMs the same in the transition from RSE to DPPt, only adding a few more. They may do a similar thing with this game, considering to my knowledge it's not console-specific, and trade between D/P/Pt and the new one should occur.
I'm fairly certain there won't be other status-inflicting entry hazards though. Consider having Toxic Spikes and Magma Stones up at the same time when the opponent switches in lets say Vaporeon, is it Burned, or Poisoned?
They kept the TMs the same in the transition from RSE to DPPt, only adding a few more. They may do a similar thing with this game, considering to my knowledge it's not console-specific, and trade between D/P/Pt and the new one should occur.
I'm not entirely sure who said it before me, but I like the idea of there being a % chance that you get burned/poisoned. I also like the idea that maybe if you use one, then it will over-ride any other spike-types setup. That way it kind of limits each team of SR type-abusers to 1 type to build around.
Idk, I like the idea of Generation V from a gaming standpoint; not so much from the metagame standpoint.
Also, I doubt that anyone mentioned this, but it's because of the well forgotten status: curse. It has been rejected because of its limitations (only Ghost types, who usually have low HP, can use it at the expense of half their max HP). I really hope that they make better use of it. For example, they could make an ability assigned to a Ghost or Dark type that, when the user is attacked by moves that make physical contact, the attacker gets the curse status and a quarter of their health is deducted each turn (until they switch out of course). It would be neat if they made more use of it because it is the most powerful status out there, as its only remedy is switching out.
I was really surprised when this was announced. Like most of you, I thought it was too soon - what with HG/SS not even released here. Then I realized it has been 4 years since D/P have been out in Japan, and it made sense. People are getting tired of Sinnoh.
I'm not going to make any speculations when it comes to the gameplay; moves, natures, battles, etc. What I will say is that I am looking forward to seeing how they improve the graphics. If this is indeed Generation 5, it follows that they will have better graphics; the question is - where do they go from here? It's already somewhat 3D with the overworld sprites looking like Animal Crossing characters. Do they make the overworld completely 3D - like Final Fantasy III for the DS? Will they keep Night and Day? Will pokemon still follow you?
I hope they show us just a few seconds of gameplay on Sunday - anything is better then Junichi Masuda just saying "Oh, here are two new pokemon (cute ones for the kids) and they're the ones appearing in the new movie. Kthnxbai."
Also, please please please, keep the evolutions of classics to a minimum - as much as I support a Farfetch'd evolution, I want to see more creative pokemon like with Hoenn or Kanto. And the less legendaries, the better. Seriously, they're not legends anymore if everyone and their grandmother has at least 3 copies of them.
Last but not least - new environments. I loved the feel of the battle frontier in Platinum. The whole tropical rainforest environment was a step in the right direction. If you use the same environments over and over, people get tired of them. Keep the weather conditions random in most places but not constantly changing to the point where they become annoying.
I'm not going to make any speculations when it comes to the gameplay; moves, natures, battles, etc. What I will say is that I am looking forward to seeing how they improve the graphics. If this is indeed Generation 5, it follows that they will have better graphics; the question is - where do they go from here? It's already somewhat 3D with the overworld sprites looking like Animal Crossing characters. Do they make the overworld completely 3D - like Final Fantasy III for the DS? Will they keep Night and Day? Will pokemon still follow you?
I hope they show us just a few seconds of gameplay on Sunday - anything is better then Junichi Masuda just saying "Oh, here are two new pokemon (cute ones for the kids) and they're the ones appearing in the new movie. Kthnxbai."
Also, please please please, keep the evolutions of classics to a minimum - as much as I support a Farfetch'd evolution, I want to see more creative pokemon like with Hoenn or Kanto. And the less legendaries, the better. Seriously, they're not legends anymore if everyone and their grandmother has at least 3 copies of them.
Last but not least - new environments. I loved the feel of the battle frontier in Platinum. The whole tropical rainforest environment was a step in the right direction. If you use the same environments over and over, people get tired of them. Keep the weather conditions random in most places but not constantly changing to the point where they become annoying.
Or you could think with your head and not with a reflex. Remember WAAAAAAAY back when Tauros was king of the crop? How about Slowbro? Rhydon?
My point is, threats will be handled because some old threats (I put good money on Snorlax if he doesn't get Slack Off) will become unthreatining and only a few new ones (and MAYBE 1 or 2 GSC to RSE Gyarados cases) make the cut. Meanwhile, I hope for a Physical Blissey, which would keep the metagame completely stable. Just don't make it look fat. =P
give snorlax slack off. he will catch blissey
give porygon-2 alternate evolution with better defenses
I also use my psychic skillz to see a chatot evolution, a muk/weezing evolution, a zangoose (normal/fighting) and seviper evolution, Lapras evolution, dragon/normal evolutions, and pinsir evo
This'll seem totally out of left field but...
Give Ho-Oh dragon Dance. Take dat, you damn rayquazas!
give porygon-2 alternate evolution with better defenses
I also use my psychic skillz to see a chatot evolution, a muk/weezing evolution, a zangoose (normal/fighting) and seviper evolution, Lapras evolution, dragon/normal evolutions, and pinsir evo
This'll seem totally out of left field but...
Give Ho-Oh dragon Dance. Take dat, you damn rayquazas!
Here is a Rumored Famitsu scan. Until it's legitness is confirmed, take it with a grain of salt.
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