Pokemon Black & White, aka Gen 5. Coming to Japan in Fall 2010.

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well i think gamefreak and nintendo are on opposite ends of the spectrum. gamefreak developed a game that, on the outside, seems pretty straightforward: you get some pokemon, level them up to collect badges, complete the story and beat the game. but in reality the game has a tremendous amount going on "under the hood," with training and battling pokemon actually being very intricate and complex.

nintendo on the other hand, who markets pokemon, more or less treat the games just like other aspects of the franchise (namely the anime), as a happy-go-lucky "i know my charmander can win this battle because i believe in him so much!!" kind of a thing. aiming the entire franchise towards kids, this sort of puts gamefreak's amazing game design on the back burner.

not that the game ISN'T fun, care-free and enjoyable to casually battle others without considering natures, EV training and such, but hardcore competitive players will have to rely on chain breeding and IV's, throwing the idealistic philosophy that the show pushes out the window.
 
Right, but imagine this scenario. I have a perfectly IV'd pokemon that I trained hapahazardly. No EV's whatsoever. An EV trained Pokemon will always kick its ass. So in essence the effect of proper training is greater than the effects of natural ability.
 
Aminar said:
Right, but imagine this scenario. I have a perfectly IV'd pokemon that I trained hapahazardly. No EV's whatsoever. An EV trained Pokemon will always kick its ass. So in essence the effect of proper training is greater than the effects of natural ability.
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yes. you're right. i guess i got off on a bit of a tangent there, but i meant to end with IV's should NOT be abolished. the complexities of training and battling is what makes the RPG series so brilliant, and wiping the game of IV's and such would only hurt it, making the 5th generation an empty shell of what it could have been. every battle would be 2 pokemon shooting Hyper Beam at each other until someone wins.
 
I don't follow??

How would the removal of IV's make the game spam bad moves fest. I don't think they are a terrible thing, but they are overly random for a competitive game. I'd personally like to see them done more like D&D stats. When you catch a Pokemon it makes 3 random numbers from 1 to 6. This gives an average of 10, a max of 18, a minimum of 3, and a reasonable chance at decent numbers. Only Speed would be a hug issue, as anyhting less than max is a liability. But it would work better than rolling a 32 sided dice and subtracting one. The numbers are two variable. Any change to the IV system and the 4th gen becomes incompatible with the 5th gen. The impacts of that are... unlikely to matter considering the release timing of Heart Gold and Soul Silver.
 
Well I know it said in the manga or something that 6 Pokemon in a party works the best together, but manga =/= games, and it was never said in the games so that kind of makes it invalid. Anyways I think adding more team slots and/or move slots is the most probable idea for a major change. It would allow you to import stuff from DPPtHgSs instead of rendering them useless like in the RSE transition, since you would just add more moves when it got to the 5th gen. It almost seems like they HAVE to add more move or team slots in this game, since there will probably be like 600+ catchable Pokemon and even more moves, it would become very hard to build an effective team with only 6 members and 4 moves.
 
Expansion of the party seems a bit less than optimal. Granted, I could see maybe adding an option for 7-8, but I don't think it should happen. Games take a long time as is. And while yes there are more threats to answer for, if each type as a decent number of viable pokemon then it shouldn't be too hard to arrange a team with decent enough coverage to manage. And eventually the metagame will contract and centralize into something close to what it is now. Personally I like the idea of enough variety where there is no perfect team.
 
Tbh, increasing pokemon per party and moveslots is just a stupid idea. Maybe increasing both by one would be ok, but I just don't like it.

The only problem I have with taking ivs out is what will they do with hidden power? Maybe cutting it to 0-15 and changing the damage to 40-70?
 
Scuba Stevee said:
The only problem I have with taking ivs out is what will they do with hidden power? Maybe cutting it to 0-15 and changing the damage to 40-70?
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Hidden Power could just become it's own individual hidden "Stat", and have a constant base power (always 70 I think would be good). Simple.

I like what someone mentioned about picking alternate stories. It'll never happen but I'd love to be on the evil team.
 
There are dozens of ways to manage hidden power, I'd almost like it to be based upon EV's just to see how that would affect people's use of it.
 
Hidden power could be made to coincide with a different time of the day. Every hour and a half it changes or something. 16 x 1.5 = 24
 
Rather than changing Hidden Power, it'd be better if they just made a new attack.

EDIT: Also, the IVs have remained because GF -want- each pokemon to be individually randomised. I don't think it was their intention to have people breeding the perfect stats.
 
Nyoodles said:
yes. you're right. i guess i got off on a bit of a tangent there, but i meant to end with IV's should NOT be abolished. the complexities of training and battling is what makes the RPG series so brilliant
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I think IVs should either be abolished, or made manipulatable. (Perhaps the Vitamins and Berries could switch to affecting IVs instead of EVs). By doing so, you make competitive Pokemon easier to obtain. By doing THAT, you encourage cartridge players to try different Pokemon and different tactics, since it's so much easier to get a great Pokemon - you just catch it, give it a load of Vitamins, and EV it. Take a couple hours I reckon, not including the time hammering the E4 for money.

I hope we can agree that more people trying novel tactics is a good thing.

It would also reduce the incentive to cheat. At present traditional breeding takes ages, and RNG manipulation is a complicated business - the temptation to just hack a perfect Pokemon is huge. If the legitimate method's made much easier, why cheat?
 
Scuba Stevee said:
Tbh, increasing pokemon per party and moveslots is just a stupid idea. Maybe increasing both by one would be ok, but I just don't like it.

The only problem I have with taking ivs out is what will they do with hidden power? Maybe cutting it to 0-15 and changing the damage to 40-70?
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LO Starmie Surf/Recover/IceBeam/Thunderbolt/Rapidspin OR Psychic OR Hiddenpower
This would be awesome when it has an agility/sub passed!
 
DiamondMaster said:
LO Starmie Surf/Recover/IceBeam/Thunderbolt/Rapidspin OR Psychic OR Hiddenpower
This would be awesome when it has an agility/sub passed!
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The thing with larger movesets is that is is harder to cover threats as it is. Add another moveslot while not allowing more party pokes makes it a battle of luck as to what you do have covered defensively. Basically adding more moveslots promotes aggressive play and adding more party slots increases defensive play.
The other thing is that more pokemon are going to be coming. That already makes more offensive threats. The reason it doesn't really help defensive teams is that there are only a number of options for a defensive poke whereas there are so many ways to construct an offensive poke. Add to this the fact that HO teams are relitively popular now imagine what it will be like when more moves come out and more varied pokes.
Adding moveslots may sound cool and all but it would completely screw with the metagame. Pokemon like Umbreon and registeel will become less and less useful due to the lack of presence garnered by new options for attackers.
Keeping everything the way it is results in the ideal enviroment due to the coverage v options ratio that exists at the moment. The only thing that could mess that up is the addition of more pokes that need checking. However that is easily fixed by the teiring system and thus the problem is erased.

So basically the moral of this post is that all these new changes would be cool and all but very few of them are likely to occur as they would completely mess with the tried and tested method that has been around since gen one.
 
ILoveLiza said:
The thing with larger movesets is that is is harder to cover threats as it is. Add another moveslot while not allowing more party pokes makes it a battle of luck as to what you do have covered defensively. Basically adding more moveslots promotes aggressive play and adding more party slots increases defensive play.
The other thing is that more pokemon are going to be coming. That already makes more offensive threats. The reason it doesn't really help defensive teams is that there are only a number of options for a defensive poke whereas there are so many ways to construct an offensive poke. Add to this the fact that HO teams are relitively popular now imagine what it will be like when more moves come out and more varied pokes.
Adding moveslots may sound cool and all but it would completely screw with the metagame. Pokemon like Umbreon and registeel will become less and less useful due to the lack of presence garnered by new options for attackers.
Keeping everything the way it is results in the ideal enviroment due to the coverage v options ratio that exists at the moment. The only thing that could mess that up is the addition of more pokes that need checking. However that is easily fixed by the teiring system and thus the problem is erased.

So basically the moral of this post is that all these new changes would be cool and all but very few of them are likely to occur as they would completely mess with the tried and tested method that has been around since gen one.
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Total agreement. Umbreon just so happens to be one of my favourites, and looking at it, it should be a very good defensive pokemon. It's just that with all the offensive bias in the 4th gen, it just can't keep up with pokemon carrying LO/Band/Specs. My hopes lie in some sort of defensive-type boost in 5th gen for defensive minded pokemon.
 
I'd like to state more facts why I think this pokemon will be a dark type, just look at this link below

http://img706.imageshack.us/img706/8162/watchi.jpg

You notice the watches, suicune has a blue strap for water typing, celebi has a green strap for its grass typing, but what strap the watch with the question mark have? black! Isn't it obvious! Or I could be wrong, they just put it as a placeholder and will totally end up differently.
 
uhh, probably not quite right there dhoni. if you look closely youll see that the whole watch is "painted" black (name, design, even the highlights). so while there is a possibility of it being a dark type, this doesnt exclude any of the other types (except probably water, fire, grass, lightning and fugly pikachu lightning).
 
Someone made a concept art of what they think it looks like, and I thought i'd share it to help thoughts on this new Pokemon.

Generation_5_Pokemon_by_Xous54.png
 
Like the looks of that, now make it Dark type and not Legendary and I'm definately using that;)

EDIT: Probably will end up as the Dark counterpart to Mewtwo with my luck. With high Attack and Defense, with moderate HP and Speed and sucky Sp defense. Something like that.
 
Azule said:
Someone made a concept art of what they think it looks like, and I thought i'd share it to help thoughts on this new Pokemon.

Generation_5_Pokemon_by_Xous54.png
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Looks nice.
I'd be glad for the pokemon to look like that.
However, I can't help but see the resemblance of this and knuckles and shadow of sonic the hedgehog XD
 
I would laugh my ass off if that that fandom version of said mystery Pokemon was actually accurate. I mean what are the odds someone actually being right in terms of guessing out a new Pokemon's appearance?
 
Atlas said:
uhh, probably not quite right there dhoni. if you look closely youll see that the whole watch is "painted" black (name, design, even the highlights). so while there is a possibility of it being a dark type, this doesnt exclude any of the other types (except probably water, fire, grass, lightning and fugly pikachu lightning).
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yeah you're right, silly me rushing in to misleading thoughts .-.
 
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