Signal Beam?
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Pokemon VGC 2010 DATES / rules announced for the US!
- Thread starter POKEMONBATTLEBRAIN
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I second this, great suggestion.
i will keep this short since i am at a hotel lounge (-_-;)
rein...your palkia idea isn't too viable in my honest opinion.
spacial rend's accuracy is pretty ignorable, protect is obviously fine, thunder's accuracy is often times "perfect" as it will most likely have (hopefully) rain support.
the only prob is fire blast but i wouldn't use an item for fb :/
rein...your palkia idea isn't too viable in my honest opinion.
spacial rend's accuracy is pretty ignorable, protect is obviously fine, thunder's accuracy is often times "perfect" as it will most likely have (hopefully) rain support.
the only prob is fire blast but i wouldn't use an item for fb :/
Oh and I'm curious as to why protect is a good choice if he can't be hit by surf/earthquake. I do plan on using Snorlax with selfdestruct, though.
Sorry about the nature confusion w/ Bold. I googled Pokemon natures and apparently got a bad website for them.
Jolteon should only be used over Zapdos if you absolutely have to outrun Mewtwo and Weavile. Otherwise, Zapdos is the better choice. And if you still need something fast, Zapdos' base 100 speed makes him faster than all ubers bar Mewtwo and Palkia(who he ties w/). LO and Roost might be viable.
Protect is in case the enemy is obviously about to explode (Mewtwo/Snorlax at below 25% HP, or in the red) and so Zapdos isn't destroyed when you know Kyogre will use Water Spout. Zapdos Protects, while his partner knocks Kyogre's HP down to the point Water Spout becomes unusable.
Jolteon should only be used over Zapdos if you absolutely have to outrun Mewtwo and Weavile. Otherwise, Zapdos is the better choice. And if you still need something fast, Zapdos' base 100 speed makes him faster than all ubers bar Mewtwo and Palkia(who he ties w/). LO and Roost might be viable.
Protect is in case the enemy is obviously about to explode (Mewtwo/Snorlax at below 25% HP, or in the red) and so Zapdos isn't destroyed when you know Kyogre will use Water Spout. Zapdos Protects, while his partner knocks Kyogre's HP down to the point Water Spout becomes unusable.
it can be hit by surf. but it's there for explosions, predicting, etc.
@Rein, recovery moves aren't good choices in doubles... maybe signal beam for mewtwo?
I could use some help.
Mewtwo @idk
Timid
252 SpA/ 252 Spe/ 4 HP
Grass Knot
Thunder
Protect
Shadow Ball / Aura Sphere
Kyogre @idk
Modest
idk what EVs are good in Double Battles
Water Spout
Surf
Ice Beam
Thunder
Zapdos @?
-Thunder
-Heat Wave
-Protect
-Signal Beam
Snorlax @idk
Adamant?
idk EVs
Body Slam
Selfdestruct
Earthquake
crunch
Mewtwo @idk
Timid
252 SpA/ 252 Spe/ 4 HP
Grass Knot
Thunder
Protect
Shadow Ball / Aura Sphere
Kyogre @idk
Modest
idk what EVs are good in Double Battles
Water Spout
Surf
Ice Beam
Thunder
Zapdos @?
-Thunder
-Heat Wave
-Protect
-Signal Beam
Snorlax @idk
Adamant?
idk EVs
Body Slam
Selfdestruct
Earthquake
crunch
Sorry to change the subject but did Nintendo World annouce the early release yet? I'm getting very impatient considering its about a week away! I'm probaly just going to make a raindance team just to get to nationals. Then techniques will come.
What would be a good counter or check for Mewtwo, I have nothing that can take a mewtwo right now.
If your running Water Spout, than Protect should be used on Kyogre so he can wait until he gets a chance to attack at full HP. I don't like the idea of Scarf. Being locked into a move (like mentioned earlier in this thread) is very risky in VGC, especially when Water Spout is completely blocked by Palkia and Ludicolo from opposing Rain teams, and many people will be expecting Kyogre and might have a Pokemon that can wall the attack hes locked into. And if you wait later in the game to switch him in, you might end up on your last 2 Pokemon and unable to swap Kyogre out and shift moves. Choice items don't work as well in doubles as they do in singles....
Jolly Weavile might be able to outspeed neutral nature Mewtwo, and hurt him w/ Night Slash ore you could even put Sucker Punch on a powerfull Pokemon who gets STAB for it and a decent attack.
Shedinja is immun to everything Mewtwo has bar Flamethrower, and easily checks rain teams, but if Mewtwo is on a Hail team, or someone send in the rare Tyranitar, or the almost non-existent Hippowdon, Shedinjas out quickly from residual damage.
Giratina/ Giratina-0 could work. While he's hurt by Ice Beam, he has Shadow Force and Shadow Sneak.
BTW, Mewtwo is commonly used w/ Abomasnow, to abuse Blizzard, so...a Dragon Pokemon might not be the greatest counter. I'm also seeing a lot of people carrying Ice Beam, even on a few RMT here on Smogon.
Scizor completely destroys Mewtwo. It resists all of his attacks except Flamethrower (rare on Mewtwo, anyway) and has Bug Bite + STAB + Technician boosts to destroy Mewtwo's defense-EVless existence (most carry Speed and Sp Attack, and sometime attack and Sp Defense, but rarely defense). Metagross can wall Mewtwo as well w/o a double weakness to Flamethrower.
Jolly Weavile might be able to outspeed neutral nature Mewtwo, and hurt him w/ Night Slash ore you could even put Sucker Punch on a powerfull Pokemon who gets STAB for it and a decent attack.
Shedinja is immun to everything Mewtwo has bar Flamethrower, and easily checks rain teams, but if Mewtwo is on a Hail team, or someone send in the rare Tyranitar, or the almost non-existent Hippowdon, Shedinjas out quickly from residual damage.
Giratina/ Giratina-0 could work. While he's hurt by Ice Beam, he has Shadow Force and Shadow Sneak.
BTW, Mewtwo is commonly used w/ Abomasnow, to abuse Blizzard, so...a Dragon Pokemon might not be the greatest counter. I'm also seeing a lot of people carrying Ice Beam, even on a few RMT here on Smogon.
So how are you suggesting I use Kyogre with that team?
There is nothing wrong with using Kyogre, just not Scarf/Specs. A lot of his EVs/set depend on when he's sent out.
If Kyogre is a lead, then the set you have is fine. Outside of Scarf, Kyogre barely comes short of outrunning Mewtwo, but Signal Beam can be used to take care of Mewtwo to some extent, but I would still keep Protect if you plan on making Water Spout your primary attack. You can remove Surf, Water Spout, or Thunder Kyogre's move pool is somewhat limited.
Water Spout should not be used if your making Kyogre slow to get weather up. If it is slow, than Water Spout is a bad idea.
The calculations for Kyogre's Signal Beam are 56.7-66.9% when used on 0 Sp Defense Mewtwo.
If you want/Mewtwo is that much of a threat, you can run Timid on your Mewtwo and give it Dark Pulse. You have to be careful, though. Mewtwo w/o any Sp Defense EVs will only take 61.2-72.5% from max Sp Attack Timid Mewtwo using Dark Pulse (yours).
I would remove Ice Beam from Mewtwo, though, because Kyogre already has it and there is no need for it to be on Mewtwo (this is assuming there both your leads. If Kyogre and Mewtwo won't be out at the same time, than ignore out what I said about giving Mewtwo Dark Pulse and weather you keep Ice Beam or not is up to you).
And one last thing. Unless you want the paralysis, run Return on Snorlax instead of Body Slam. Paralysis shouldn't be used that much considering the VGC is about taking out Pokemon, not crippling them.
If Kyogre is a lead, then the set you have is fine. Outside of Scarf, Kyogre barely comes short of outrunning Mewtwo, but Signal Beam can be used to take care of Mewtwo to some extent, but I would still keep Protect if you plan on making Water Spout your primary attack. You can remove Surf, Water Spout, or Thunder Kyogre's move pool is somewhat limited.
Water Spout should not be used if your making Kyogre slow to get weather up. If it is slow, than Water Spout is a bad idea.
The calculations for Kyogre's Signal Beam are 56.7-66.9% when used on 0 Sp Defense Mewtwo.
If you want/Mewtwo is that much of a threat, you can run Timid on your Mewtwo and give it Dark Pulse. You have to be careful, though. Mewtwo w/o any Sp Defense EVs will only take 61.2-72.5% from max Sp Attack Timid Mewtwo using Dark Pulse (yours).
I would remove Ice Beam from Mewtwo, though, because Kyogre already has it and there is no need for it to be on Mewtwo (this is assuming there both your leads. If Kyogre and Mewtwo won't be out at the same time, than ignore out what I said about giving Mewtwo Dark Pulse and weather you keep Ice Beam or not is up to you).
And one last thing. Unless you want the paralysis, run Return on Snorlax instead of Body Slam. Paralysis shouldn't be used that much considering the VGC is about taking out Pokemon, not crippling them.
I don't have Ice Beam on Mewtwo... I planned on using surf over water spout, but someone recommended it. I was gonna make it slow because of weather, but if I use mewtwo grass knot can OHKO Groudon.
Actually I think I am gonna take thunder off mewtwo so I can have Aura Sphere and Shadow Ball. Kyogre and Zapdos already have Thunder.
Yeah that's what I was thinking. What are your EVs?
Quiet Kyogre would work well there, w/ max Sp. Attack, and probably the rest would be dumped into HP. While Mewtwo can take out Groudon, you will still need to be slower than Groudon to set up rain. As powerful as Water Spout is, running it on a slow ogre will usually be fruitless. You'll never out run anything and be attacked before you attack, resulting in a low powered Water Spout. That doesn't make slow Kyogre bad, it just makes Water Spout unusable and Surf/Hydro Pump/Muddy Water better choices.
Removing Thunder is a good idea. Having one attack on more than 3 Pokemon is usually overkill and unneeded (i.e. trainer #99 in Pokemon XD Gale of Darkness. 5 out of 6 of her Pokemon knew Explosion, and I laughed as she ripped her own team apart).
Despite what Theamericandream38 said, running Timid on Mewtwo will be nice, since the whole point of Shadow Ball is to take other Mewtwo, and opposing Mewtwo outrunning you and hurting you before u hurt them doesn't help you out much. It also keeps Weavile in check.
I'm assuming Mewtwo and Kyogre are your two leads.
Also....let me just ask....what would normally be a good EV yield for a slow Pokemon? I know you obviously need to max the Pokemon's main attacking stat, but would you really just dump the rest into HP and Special Defense? I don't have much experience in EVing slow Pokemon.
Hmm... about the EVs on Kyogre. I would assume so. I don't know much about EV distribution anyways.
Do you think Mewtwo will be really common in needing to run Timid Mewtwo to be the fastest Pokemon?
Hows this updated version look?
Mewtwo @ Expert Belt
Modest or Timid(opposing Mewtwo)
252 SpA/ 252 Spe/ 4 HP
Grass Knot
Shadow Ball
Protect
Aura Sphere
Kyogre @ ?
Quiet
252 SpA/ 252 HP / 4 SpD
Surf
Protect
Ice Beam
Thunder
Zapdos @ Lum Berry/Leftovers/other stuff
Dunno about EVs for this format. Probably want to focus on SpA, HP, and Sp Def
Modest
Thunder
Heat Wave
Protect
Signal Beam
Snorlax @Lum Berry/Leftovers/other stuff
Brave
252 Atk / lots of HP and Sp Def
Return
Selfdestruct
Earthquake
Crunch
Yeah, I'm curious though. Timid Palkia vs Timid Zapdos 252 EVs in Speed, same IV. Who goes first?
Dude, you can do the calculations yourself.
http://serebii.net/games/iv-calcdp.shtml
Zapdos - 167 speed
Palkia - 167 speed
It is a tie, so it is 50/50 chance to go first
252 SpAtk/252 HP/6 SpDef
I dunno, it works for me. It can usually take at least one Thunder/Tbolt or Spacial Rends or what have you and it runs Protect in case someone is getting Grass Knot happy and I need time to deal with it.
Well I didn't know if a tie was 50/50 or if it was something else.
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