New and 'creative' moveset/EV spread thread Mk. 5

[Pollux-Castor]

Fire Spin indeeds traps opposing pokemon but when Blaziken switches out, this is canceled, meaning your opponent is no longer trapped and that he can switch out again. This can be solved however with the move Baton Pass, which Blaziken is able to learn.

Hey thanks, I only really used Will-O-Wisp competitively. I used Fire Spin once, I guess the opponent just decided not to switch out. :/ ?

I'll have to test it more now anyways. It would be similiar to Umbreon's passing except Blaziken is faster so he can pass before getting hit. Fire Spin only has a 37.5% chance of trapping only 2 turns so set up moves are useable, or you could just kill the foe right then and there.

Edit: Will-O-Wisp has always been very useful though and I could replace the Fire Spin slot for another attack.

 

[Universal Berry]

Now here's a lead set with a different philosophy. If you don't mind entry hazard set up or have a dedicated spinner waiting in the back then this lead is a great way to start off with a 6-5 or possible 6-4 advantage.

Shaymin Lead set
@ Occa Berry
Modest 252 sp. atk 252 speed

-Seed Flare
-Hp Fire
-Earth Power
-Psychic

A similar possibly preferred set can be run with yache berry over occa and natural gift over psychic. But shoddy has no natural gift. So eh.

Seed flare hits everything hard. Earth Power is for the inevitable heatran/infernape switch in after you massacre their lead. Occa berry is so you can take an attack from either poke and ohko back. Hp Fire is for scizors who will bp and not do as much as they expected. Any other move and scizor is outsped and hp fire ohkos.

Psychic is for machamp's and your biggest problem salamence. Psychic is a 2-3 ko which isn't ideal but with natural gift/yache salamence is ohko'd.

Shaymin is ideal over celebi which can run a similar set. Celebi has rocks but is hit for 4x damage by opposing u-turns and has leaf storm which is inferior to seed flare.

Ugh... You little copier!

I already posted a Anti-Lead Shaymin in thsi thread as you can see here:
http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=62724&page=22
(at the bottom, cant miss the huge pic)

I believe it is superior but you're free to do what you want. I also have a more in depth analysis as well as matchups. Psychic is completely useless since Seed Flare does equal damage to Machamp as Psychic and accuracy is not an issue because No Guard affects both pokemons.

I tested that lead A LOT of times and already wrote an analysis in C & C thread.
I don't say that lead is not good, just that it was already posted. BY ME.

Good try though.

 

[MetaGross66]

I really don't see why anyone should care. The lead shaymin isn't all that fantastic anyway. Celebi outclasses it in nearly every way even learning SR while still maintaining almost everything that shaymin can do.

Aside from that, I've been using a different variation of the wall breaker Gliscor. This one however, it far more offensive.

Gliscor (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Hyper Cutter
EVs: 40 HP/252 Atk/216 Spd
Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Earthquake
- Roost
- Ice Fang
- Night Slash
---
This Gliscor is meant to lure in things like Latias for a Tyranitar sweep (using the Taunt variation posted a few pages back) simultaneously weakening things like Swampert (2KO with spikes doing 35.9% - 42.6%) for Tyranitar to break through. Night Slash was used to hurt the Rotom forms as they can be quite a bother. I used to have Swords dance and at one point Agility here, but I found Night Slash worked best in case I didn't want to reveal Tyranitar too early. Ice fang was here to catch things like Salamence, Flygon, Dragonite, and Latias on the switch.

 

[ck49]

Donphan @ life orb
adamant
80HP/252att/172 speed
-Earthquake
-seed bomb
-ice shard
-Stealth rock

Lead Donphan, which can KO or 2ko manny common leads, or set up stealth rock. Speed evs are enough to outspeed 8 speed metagross, and will KO 95% of the time. Aero is 2ko'd with ice shard, and heatran dies to Earthquake. Infernape loses to Earthquake, and Swampert always is outsped and KO'd by seed bomb. The only problem I've found is Azelf, which you just gotta hope it doesn't taunt as you SR, then switch. Roserade and smeargle also kill it, but If you run lum, you lose the KO on Metagross.

 

[Pollux-Castor]

Donphan @ life orb
adamant
80HP/252att/172 speed
-Earthquake
-seed bomb
-ice shard
-Stealth rock

I posted a set nearly identical to this a long time ago. The only difference was mine had Focus Sash, I used it as my primary lead for over 100 battles and it did excellent in about 90% of those battles. Life Orb is not so great, with Focus Sash he still 2hko's Metagross with EQ and Salamence with Ice Shard. Focus Sash let's him survive special attacks that he obviously wouldn't like Roserade's Leaf Storm so he can 2hko with Ice Shard, and in general it allows him to tie or beat a wider array of leads.

Later on I decided on Rapid Spin instead of Seed Bomb because the only use would be Swampert. Rapid Spin breaks the Sash while removing rocks making him more effective against Aerodactyl and others.

 

[Boondocker]

Dragonite @ Leftovers
Adamant 84Hp 244Atk 180 Spe

Substitute
Focus punch
Dragon Claw
Extreme Speed

The ev's : 344hp ; 86hp sub maximum lefties recovery etc..
The speed is 241 ; rotomH sleeptalker , Breloom , ....
401 Atk : this was the remaning amount of ev's so we have maximum power.

The moveset :

Substitute serves as a buffer and helps us fire of focus punch
extreme speed is broken in the sens of focus punch + ES : Ko
dRAGON cLAW ; looks almost filler but its not this way we can hit the ghost with our
stab move .

Against anything that resist fighting i use dragon claw =
gyarados , zapdos , gliscor , rotomH ; 3hko all of them dragon claw
on the switch , followed by another as they try and break the sub , followed by extreme speed to finish them of . not bad for something without a statup move
anything not resisting focus punch can be picked of by extreme speed
physical walls ; are beaten down to the point where they can just heal or be destroyed ( skarmory , forretress , ...) this is with focus punch if your wondering.
if they try to phaze you youre second punch should hit them before your shuffled.

I remember a sub set being in the analysis a while ago, but it got taken down for some reason. I think it had sub, punch, ice beam, thunderbolt or something. As for your set i would replace dragon claw with draco meteor and extreme speed with roost/toxic. Then he becomes a killer wall breaker with a very short lifespan.

 

[Eggbert]

Forretress@Choice Band
Brave
252 HP/252 Atk/6 Def (0 Speed IV)
~Gyro Ball
~Payback
~Earthquake
~Explosion

No one will expect the wrath of forretress, who can hit stuff hard on the switch with payback and a 414 attack stat.

 

[Delko]

Forretress@Choice Band
Brave
252 HP/252 Atk/6 Def (0 Speed IV)
~Gyro Ball
~Payback
~Earthquake
~Explosion

No one will expect the wrath of forretress, who can hit stuff hard on the switch with payback and a 414 attack stat.

This reminds me of a Rock Polish, Power Swap Forretress I used not so long ago. Although it might work, Forretress is better of as a supporter. The suprise factor deserves a 10 out 10 though. ^^

 

[Bologo]

Forretress@Choice Band
Brave
252 HP/252 Atk/6 Def (0 Speed IV)
~Gyro Ball
~Payback
~Earthquake
~Explosion

No one will expect the wrath of forretress, who can hit stuff hard on the switch with payback and a 414 attack stat.

First, I'm pretty sure you mean 459 Attack since Forretress has 90 base Attack.

Unfortunately, TrickZong is a lot better than CB Forretress. Bronzong can not only learn every move on this set, but his Gyro Ball (the main attacking move) is also a lot stronger due to the lower Speed, and he can Trick off his Choice Band to a special attacker or supporter to cripple something else (it would probably go over Payback). Also, Bronzong has a much better typing and ability than Forretress. He has the same Fire weakness as Forretress, but only 2x when he uses Levitate as opposed to Forretress's 4x weakness. In addition, Bronzong's immunity to Spikes means that he can come in several more times against Spike-stacking teams, and he also has a resistance to Stealth Rock as opposed to a neutrality. Finally, Bronzong's Special Defense is way higher than Forretress's, meaning that he can come in on a wider variety of opponents, which is very helpful for a Choice Bander.

CB Forretress is surprising though, I'll give it that.

 

[Universal Berry]

I really don't see why anyone should care. The lead shaymin isn't all that fantastic anyway. Celebi outclasses it in nearly every way even learning SR while still maintaining almost everything that shaymin can do.

Try it before making any comments. Seriously, that thing is really cool. Only loses to fire leads and it survives Azelf's fire blast.

Why I use it over Celebi is because it has Seed Flare and Quick Attack. Seed Flare is freaking powerful and has a nice secondary effect. Also, it doesnt lower your Sp Atk. Quick Attack may seem ridiculour but it's really useful against sashed leads. Try it, you'll see.

And YES, it is all that fantastic.

(Lack of SR hurts but anyway it needs every of its moves. Also, a LOT of things learn SR and are better to set them up than Celebi)

 

[PI-Dimension]

lolwutScizor

Jolly Scizor@Muscle Band/Expert Belt/Life Orb
188 HP/252 Atk/68 Spe
- Agility
- Bullet Punch
- Superpower
- U-Turn

68 speed lets it reach 366 speed after an agility, which lets it outrun Scarf TTar and OHKO with Superpower (Since BPunch doesn't have the power to OHKO anymore), as well as +Nature 115 bases, and Scarf Magnezone.

Usually, I use U-Turn to scout if they have magnezone. Next time I have scizor in, i'll agility and then KO.

This is a great set as a lure, if you're setting up a CM Jirachi sweep, etc.

Yeah

Okay

Alternatively, you can run 172 Spe, which outruns scarftran and OHKOs with superpower.

 

[WECAMEASROMANS]

I have been using a nice Skarmory set for a while and would like to share it. It's basically an imorovision of the Torment Spiker set, with my own EV spread and change of moves. It has been very successful for me. Here it is:

Skarmory@leftovers
ability: keen eye
252 HP/220 spdef/36 def
substitute
torment
protect
spikes

Instead of making him a physical wall I made this skarm specially bulky to set up on more theats. Even with only 36 EVs, skarm is still able to take many Physical attacks well. With its nice number of resistances of both attacks of the spectrum, skarmory should have no trouble getting up a sub. One main reason substitute is chosen over roost is that this set is not designed to be a wall, its supposed to set up spikes, force switches, and die. Most pokemon cannot successfully break skarm's sub with only one attack. Lefties is chosen over shed shell because Scarf Magnezones attempting to switch into you get turned into an opportunity to set up spikes, since it will be forced to struggle. Shed Shell is just not needed. The other moves are pretty self explanantory.

 

[Pika25]

I have been using a nice Skarmory set for a while and would like to share it. It's basically an imorovision of the Torment Spiker set, with my own EV spread and change of moves. It has been very successful for me. Here it is:

Skarmory@leftovers
ability: keen eye
252 HP/220 spdef/36 def
substitute
torment
protect
spikes

Instead of making him a physical wall I made this skarm specially bulky to set up on more theats. Even with only 36 EVs, skarm is still able to take many Physical attacks well. With its nice number of resistances of both attacks of the spectrum, skarmory should have no trouble getting up a sub. One main reason substitute is chosen over roost is that this set is not designed to be a wall, its supposed to set up spikes, force switches, and die. Most pokemon cannot successfully break skarm's sub with only one attack. Lefties is chosen over shed shell because Scarf Magnezones attempting to switch into you get turned into an opportunity to set up spikes, since it will be forced to struggle. Shed Shell is just not needed. The other moves are pretty self explanantory.

You're taunt bait unless you protect the turn they taunt. I guess lefties/protect makes up for not having roost like most skarms...

 

[tubbablubba]

Ugh... You little copier!

I already posted a Anti-Lead Shaymin in thsi thread as you can see here:
http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=62724&page=22
(at the bottom, cant miss the huge pic)

I mean I ran that set in OU in the metagame immediately after shaymin was voted BL. That was quite a while ago. I don't want this conversation to devolve into who came up with it first (even though I totally did).

It's good to see someone else uses this set because I find it hard to convince people about the viability of this set. The fourth slot is pretty much open. At one point I had aromatherapy, at another point I had quick attack. Even rest. But the raw power, plus durability makes this set great. I remember sweeping an entire team with my shaymin lead (a respectable player's team too).

On another note. Would you really call this an anti-lead? Even though the term is essentially meaningless I always felt anti-leads were leads able to prevent hazards from coming up? So this set isn't really an anti-lead, it just kind of different.

 

[Ferrouswheel]

I have been using a nice Skarmory set for a while and would like to share it. It's basically an imorovision of the Torment Spiker set, with my own EV spread and change of moves. It has been very successful for me. Here it is:

Skarmory@leftovers
ability: keen eye
252 HP/220 spdef/36 def
substitute
torment
protect
spikes

Instead of making him a physical wall I made this skarm specially bulky to set up on more theats. Even with only 36 EVs, skarm is still able to take many Physical attacks well. With its nice number of resistances of both attacks of the spectrum, skarmory should have no trouble getting up a sub. One main reason substitute is chosen over roost is that this set is not designed to be a wall, its supposed to set up spikes, force switches, and die. Most pokemon cannot successfully break skarm's sub with only one attack. Lefties is chosen over shed shell because Scarf Magnezones attempting to switch into you get turned into an opportunity to set up spikes, since it will be forced to struggle. Shed Shell is just not needed. The other moves are pretty self explanantory.

Assuming that your running a +spdef nature, magnezone still does 86.2% - 102.4% to you. Thats almost a guarenteed 1HKO with stealth rock. And scarf Magnezone is only 35.5% of all magnezones run, the others would manage to finish you off with any other move. And struggle from the scarf magnezone has a change of finishing you off anyways, if you had taken stealth rock damage.

 

[haunter]

Well, if he subs on the turn Magnezone switches in, which is likely to happen, then he can use torment on the turn Magnezone breaks the sub with thunderbolt and prooceed to set up spikes while Maggy tries to break the next sub with hp grass\ice\flash cannon (hp ice does 21.6% - 25.1%, so it will almost never break the sub). A skilled player will probably switch out, but unless they taunt, you might be able to set up 2-3 layers of spikes in the meanwhile by alternating sub\protect\spikes.

 

[Coldcut]

lolwutScizor

Jolly Scizor@Muscle Band/Expert Belt/Life Orb
188 HP/252 Atk/68 Spe
- Agility
- Bullet Punch
- Superpower
- U-Turn

68 speed lets it reach 366 speed after an agility, which lets it outrun Scarf TTar and OHKO with Superpower (Since BPunch doesn't have the power to OHKO anymore), as well as +Nature 115 bases, and Scarf Magnezone.

Usually, I use U-Turn to scout if they have magnezone. Next time I have scizor in, i'll agility and then KO.

This is a great set as a lure, if you're setting up a CM Jirachi sweep, etc.

Yeah

Okay

Alternatively, you can run 172 Spe, which outruns scarftran and OHKOs with superpower.

This is a good idea, but I think the moveset might not be ideal for an Agility sweeper. Without CB, Bullet Punch is relatively weak, U-turn makes you switch, losing your Agility boost, and Superpower drops your attack, so this set will only work for 1 or 2 turns max, so you might as well use the choice band set.

I would recommend Iron Head over Bullet Punch and Bug Bite over U-turn. Iron Head is more powerful than Bullet Punch and has a chance to flinch. Plus, with Agility you will not need the priority. Bug Bite will allow you to stay in and do damage while maintaining power. Also, if you use Agility right away, you can OHKO any Magnezone that switch in anyway instead of scouting with U-turn. And experienced players will notice the drop in power due to a lack of CB or the recoil from Life Orb.

Brick Break is a significant drop in power over Superpower, but it doesn't drop your attack and defense and has an added bonus of removing screens. However, this makes you lose the OHKOs on Magnezone and Heatran (but still easily OHKOs Ttar).

These options make for a better late game sweeper, when foes are weakened and you won't miss the drop in power. Just some suggestions.

 

[Universal Berry]

I mean I ran that set in OU in the metagame immediately after shaymin was voted BL. That was quite a while ago. I don't want this conversation to devolve into who came up with it first (even though I totally did).

It's good to see someone else uses this set because I find it hard to convince people about the viability of this set. The fourth slot is pretty much open. At one point I had aromatherapy, at another point I had quick attack. Even rest. But the raw power, plus durability makes this set great. I remember sweeping an entire team with my shaymin lead (a respectable player's team too).

On another note. Would you really call this an anti-lead? Even though the term is essentially meaningless I always felt anti-leads were leads able to prevent hazards from coming up? So this set isn't really an anti-lead, it just kind of different.

Okay, I believe you. And I promise I didn't steal it from you, since I got the idea with Anti-Lead Nite, destroying everything with its attacks and finishing off sashers with ESpeed. I thought about Shaymin being Able to destroy Mamo, Pert and Hippo, and I just added moves to fit the other leads.

and I also know that Psychic is useless other than for Gengar Leads. Which a rare these days.

Anyway, I'm happy that you had this great idea too! :D
(even if our leads are quite different)

Also, I made an analysis in C&C (although i doubt it will make it on site), so you can check it out and comment.

 

[Pollux-Castor]

This time I actually did some testing:

LV2 Endeavor Revision
Clefable@Sitrus Berry
Ability: Magic Guard
IVs: 0HP
-Endeavor
-Substitute
-Protect
-Recycle/Gravity

I was laughing pretty hard when this actually worked. In battle I had Jirachi struggling to beat me. Clefable has trouble switching in but when she is in the opponent will have a long day. It is absolutely necessary to get Abomasnow to start up a storm. If you want you can use Toxic Spikes as well to stall out some ghosts, Rotom falls to Gravity (Gengar avoids sadly). If not then Recycle is the best option if you can find the time because it can let her stall out forever. Leftovers is not an option, as far as I know it doesn't heal any HP (Shoddy totally ignored Leftovers). With Sub+Protect she will always beat the normal Life Orb users fast and really anyone not using Leftovers. Setting up or recovering will just give her time to use Endeavor or Recycle/Gravity.

*Little known fact is that Clefable's Magic Guard blocks Full Paralysis when Paralyzed. That may be a switch in opportunity. The speed drop is obviously negligible.

 

[EvilMario]

lolwutScizor

Jolly Scizor@Muscle Band/Expert Belt/Life Orb
188 HP/252 Atk/68 Spe
- Agility
- Bullet Punch
- Superpower
- U-Turn

68 speed lets it reach 366 speed after an agility, which lets it outrun Scarf TTar and OHKO with Superpower (Since BPunch doesn't have the power to OHKO anymore), as well as +Nature 115 bases, and Scarf Magnezone.

Usually, I use U-Turn to scout if they have magnezone. Next time I have scizor in, i'll agility and then KO.

This is a great set as a lure, if you're setting up a CM Jirachi sweep, etc.

Yeah

Okay

Alternatively, you can run 172 Spe, which outruns scarftran and OHKOs with superpower.

I would run, at minimum enough speed to outpace Scarf Magnezone after an Agility, like you said. You might consider Baton Pass over U-Turn, as Scizor can still function as a revenge killer, but has a much easier time Baton Passing out of its usual Counters like Rotom, Zapdos, and Heatran, who.. for instance, hate Tyranitar and oppossing Heatran at +2 speed. Baton Passing might be considered counter productive carrying Superpower though, but alas.

 

[Lucalibur]

i have being trying 2 sets these days that got a LOT of counters by surprise and turned out to be kind effective, specs metagross and agility scizor:

(Metagross) @ Choice Specs
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 90 HP/16 Def/136 Spd/252 SAtk/16 SDef
Modest nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Psychic
- Trick/ shadow ball
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Grass Knot

this set can work great if your enemy think you run something like agility metagross or the normal lead one, because it get most of its counters off guard, psychic is a powerful stab that come from 474 special atack(specs) will hurt everything that dont resist, ohko offensive rotom and 2hko defensive ones, and different from a physical set, burn dont affect a lot, hp fire hurt almost all steel types not named heatran, 2hko even specially defensive skarmory and magnezone, and of course, ohko foretress and scizor, grass knot is just great for bulky waters, deal heavy damage to suicune and even 2hko gyarados, trick is just great for blissey and friends, when you dont need specs anymore, just trick away! this set hate heatran, so get a good counter would help.

(Scizor) @ Life Orb
Ability: Technician
EVs: 22 HP/252 Atk/236 Spd
Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Agility
- Bug Bite
- Superpower
- Night Slash/pursuit

what is more fun the SD scizor? agility scizor, most of you would think:why not agility metagross instead? and i am going to say right away:different typing, different stab, and most important, the surprise value.

to put it short, the evs make sure you outspeed neutral base speed 100 pokemons with a choice scarf after agility, it also outspeed scarf heatran and magnezone, bug bite get a total of 135 power with scizor ability and STAB together, and its the main atack of this set, superpower ohko magnezone and heatran, both so called counters or checks, brick break miss the ohko on both, so its not a option for this set, the best part of this set is that you are not forced to run a steel-bad-coverage-move-like-bullet-punch so you got a free slot, night slash is just so fun for rotoms, but you might want to use pursuit instead to abuse scizor ability and get a random pokemon like scarf latias on the switch, but night slash is still recomended for the extra power, both of those sets got a lot of surprise value and can work great mid or later game, just try to keep the surprise value for when the enemy less expect.

 

[lati0s]

This time I actually did some testing:

LV2 Endeavor Revision
Clefable@Sitrus Berry
Ability: Magic Guard
IVs: 0HP
-Endeavor
-Substitute
-Protect
-Recycle/Gravity

I was laughing pretty hard when this actually worked. In battle I had Jirachi struggling to beat me. Clefable has trouble switching in but when she is in the opponent will have a long day. It is absolutely necessary to get Abomasnow to start up a storm. If you want you can use Toxic Spikes as well to stall out some ghosts, Rotom falls to Gravity (Gengar avoids sadly). If not then Recycle is the best option if you can find the time because it can let her stall out forever. Leftovers is not an option, as far as I know it doesn't heal any HP (Shoddy totally ignored Leftovers). With Sub+Protect she will always beat the normal Life Orb users fast and really anyone not using Leftovers. Setting up or recovering will just give her time to use Endeavor or Recycle/Gravity.

*Little known fact is that Clefable's Magic Guard blocks Full Paralysis when Paralyzed. That may be a switch in opportunity. The speed drop is obviously negligible.

without a sash you will rarely get off an attack

 

[Phantom_IV]

@Pollux:
Focus sash is ABSOLUTELY necessary, every attack in the game OHKOs you.

No, you cannot use sub to stall things as anything that you come in on will attack you.

Sitrus Berry is completely useless, and recycle is an inferior softboiled (not that you're going to need recovery.

Encore is rather necessary to stop things from recovery stalling you.

No, magic guard does not block full paralysis in Shoddy.

@Lucalibur:
The Metagross set might do better with LO and something to bluff a physical set, like Meteor Mash. The problem is that after the first move, your opponent can do some calcs and know you're running max SpA Specs and then Metagross becomes dead weight with his poor coverage and shallow special movepool. Plus, two one of your most common switch-ins, skarm and swampert, are covered by different attacks (HP Fire vs GK), and neither has particularly good coverage or power. Therefore, you're pretty much betting one poke on a slim chance you'll guess right.

 

[Lucalibur]

yea, i pretty much wanted some feedback on those sets, i think life orb could be used to bluff a physical set just like you said, i will give it a shoot....

 

[haunter]

Unless you also use baton pass on that set, I see really few reasons to not use agility Metagross. Meta has higher attack, speed and better overall defences. Clear body is also a more useful ability when you consider that Gyarados is a common switch into Scizor.