there is still the surprise value, has people often find no problem at all in switching heatran and magnezone against scizor, scizor also has les problems with rotom thanks to night slash, but the surprise value is really one of the most important parts of the set, higher atack barely matter, its just a 5 base points difference, but hey, cant make the perfect pokemon right?
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New and 'creative' moveset/EV spread thread Mk. 5
- Thread starter Lee
- Start date
As far as "new and creative Pokemon" goes, that Agility Scizor looks pretty decent. Unlike Metagross, Scizor can OHKO Scarf Rotom-A with Night Slash, and 2HKO those defensive ones. Bug Bite is also very useful against Starmie (whom Metagross cannot outright OHKO w/out Explosion), defeating Swampert, as well as Vaporeon and Suicune. Swarm and X-Scissor could even be used to give you a very powerful attack under the right circumstances. I agree however, Clear Body would be helpful though =/
Wouldn't Pursuit be better? You lose 10 BP, but gain the ability to trap Rotom-A if it knows what your doing.
if you notice, pursuit is slashed has a option over night slash if you want to trap stuff, but the extra power from night slash make up for losing the ability to trap and the high crit rate can work for some lol hax.
I have been working on a different Tyranitar set to be used as a lead. This is the eventual result. It doesn’t stop opposing leads from setting up Stealth Rock themselves but it can OHKO the majority of the standard leads. Pokemon as Gliscor will most of the time Taunt against Tyranitar so Ice Beam can score a quick OHKO so your opponent cannot set Stealth Rock up. If you have another pokemon to set up Stealth Rock you could replace that with another move (Rest, Flamethrower, …)
Tyranitar @ lum berry/ Brave/ sand stream
252 HP, 32 Atk, 28 Def, 144 SAtk, 52 SDef
- Ice Beam
- Payback
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
What to do against other leads?
Azelf: Payback does 144.3% - 169.8% (OHKO and if Sash’ed Sandstorm will finish it)
Aerodactyl: Payback does 73.5% - 86.8% (2HKO while Earthquake does 42.1% - 49.5% back = no 2HKO)
Gliscor: Ice Beam does 108.5% - 128.8% (OHKO if Sand Veil doesn’t kick in)
Dragonite: Ice Beam does 94.1% - 111.5% (OHKO after Sand Storm)
Roserade: Payback does 96.6% - 113.7% (OHKO after Sand Storm while Leaf Storm isn’t a OHKO in return)
Heatran: Earthquake does 61.7% - 72.8% (2HKO despite Shucka Berry while Earth Power only does 32.7% - 38.6% to Tyranitar)
Swampert: Stealth Rock + switch out
Metagross: switch out
Infernape: switch out
Tyranitar @ lum berry/ Brave/ sand stream
252 HP, 32 Atk, 28 Def, 144 SAtk, 52 SDef
- Ice Beam
- Payback
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
What to do against other leads?
Azelf: Payback does 144.3% - 169.8% (OHKO and if Sash’ed Sandstorm will finish it)
Aerodactyl: Payback does 73.5% - 86.8% (2HKO while Earthquake does 42.1% - 49.5% back = no 2HKO)
Gliscor: Ice Beam does 108.5% - 128.8% (OHKO if Sand Veil doesn’t kick in)
Dragonite: Ice Beam does 94.1% - 111.5% (OHKO after Sand Storm)
Roserade: Payback does 96.6% - 113.7% (OHKO after Sand Storm while Leaf Storm isn’t a OHKO in return)
Heatran: Earthquake does 61.7% - 72.8% (2HKO despite Shucka Berry while Earth Power only does 32.7% - 38.6% to Tyranitar)
Swampert: Stealth Rock + switch out
Metagross: switch out
Infernape: switch out
May I ask why the elaborate Ev spread? Also, will Dragonite not switch out fearing stone edge, meaning you can run significantly less Spatk (e.g 60)?
UltiMario - the only difference between that TTar and the smogon standard is that it beats Gliscor, but is less bulky. Also, I really need to put my message regarding the use of "fail" back into my sig...
UltiMario - the only difference between that TTar and the smogon standard is that it beats Gliscor, but is less bulky. Also, I really need to put my message regarding the use of "fail" back into my sig...
I have been working on a different Tyranitar set to be used as a lead. This is the eventual result. It doesn’t stop opposing leads from setting up Stealth Rock themselves but it can OHKO the majority of the standard leads. Pokemon as Gliscor will most of the time Taunt against Tyranitar so Ice Beam can score a quick OHKO so your opponent cannot set Stealth Rock up. If you have another pokemon to set up Stealth Rock you could replace that with another move (Rest, Flamethrower, …)
Tyranitar @ lum berry/ Brave/ sand stream
252 HP, 32 Atk, 28 Def, 144 SAtk, 52 SDef
- Ice Beam
- Payback
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
What to do against other leads?
Azelf: Payback does 144.3% - 169.8% (OHKO and if Sash’ed Sandstorm will finish it)
Aerodactyl: Payback does 73.5% - 86.8% (2HKO while Earthquake does 42.1% - 49.5% back = no 2HKO)
Gliscor: Ice Beam does 108.5% - 128.8% (OHKO if Sand Veil doesn’t kick in)
Dragonite: Ice Beam does 94.1% - 111.5% (OHKO after Sand Storm)
Roserade: Payback does 96.6% - 113.7% (OHKO after Sand Storm while Leaf Storm isn’t a OHKO in return)
Heatran: Earthquake does 61.7% - 72.8% (2HKO despite Shucka Berry while Earth Power only does 32.7% - 38.6% to Tyranitar)
Swampert: Stealth Rock + switch out
Metagross: switch out
Infernape: switch out
Wow did you steal that from me? I never posted that set on Smogon but I use almost the same exact set lol. And yes, it does work against the most common leads.
......I like this. A lot. Mind if I steal it?
While I'm in here, I guess I may as well contribute.
Moveset Name: Neo-CB Flygon
Move 1: Outrage / Dragon Claw
Move 2: Earthquake
Move 3: U-Turn
Move 4: Thunderpunch
Item: Choice Band
Ability: Levitate
Nature(s): Adamant / Jolly
EVs: 80 HP / 252 Atk / 176 Spd
Well, wait, this looks like plain-old Band Flygo-- O hello, what's this? Thunderpunch?
Yes, let me explain... Thunderpunch, the only different move here, acts as a compromise for the much-debated choice between Fire Blast / Punch and Stone Edge. Like Fire Blast and Fire Punch, it allows Flygon to hit Bronzong and Skarmory, while like Stone Edge, BETTER than Stone Edge even, it allows a OHKO on Gyarados even after Intimidate. On the downside, you lose a supereffective hit on Bronzong and Zapdos both, plus have the added problem of allowing Ground-types to switch in on you... but hey, they won't be expecting it the first time, and after the first time, well... that's what prediction's for.
In my opinion this is the best way to use Flygon when he's holding a Choice Band... and technically, no one else really uses it, so it fits the thread criteria... right....? o___o ...okay so no one else already posted it, but then again it's not really all that creative, since I'm only changing one move from the standard Band set. >.> ...I can still take it down if need be.
Thanks for the positive reactions guys ^^
144 SAtk EV's is so Dragonite and Gliscor are OHKO'ed by Ice Beam (yes Dragonite can switch out but so can any other lead).
32 Atk EV's is there to score the OHKO against Roserade while you while you can't be put to sleep due to Lum Berry. (Lum berry is prefered over chesto berry because it can heal all status). Of course you can take some EV's from SDef to score the definite OHKO onn Smeargle, a lead I forgot to mention.
28 Def EV's let's you survive 2 EQ's from Aerodactyl and you can 2HKO in return. (you don't need more EV's for this one as his sash will let him survive anyay and thanks to his immunity for Sandstorm every hit will be a 2HKO anyway).
252 HP EV's are there to give Tyranitar as much as possible without maxing out a defensive stat.
The rest (52) is dropped in SDef to make Tyranitar specialy bulkier.
144 SAtk EV's is so Dragonite and Gliscor are OHKO'ed by Ice Beam (yes Dragonite can switch out but so can any other lead).
32 Atk EV's is there to score the OHKO against Roserade while you while you can't be put to sleep due to Lum Berry. (Lum berry is prefered over chesto berry because it can heal all status). Of course you can take some EV's from SDef to score the definite OHKO onn Smeargle, a lead I forgot to mention.
28 Def EV's let's you survive 2 EQ's from Aerodactyl and you can 2HKO in return. (you don't need more EV's for this one as his sash will let him survive anyay and thanks to his immunity for Sandstorm every hit will be a 2HKO anyway).
252 HP EV's are there to give Tyranitar as much as possible without maxing out a defensive stat.
The rest (52) is dropped in SDef to make Tyranitar specialy bulkier.
Yes, although not all anti-lead 'nites use Superpower.
Most Dragonite leads have Earthquake, although that is a good question. I'll do some calc to see I can outspeed LeadNite.
Wouldn't flail be better with STAB coming off his pitiful 20 base attack stat? In all honesty, Endeavor would be so much better, or even Explosion with the halving of the opponent's defense and STAB, but Flail coming from that attack stat isn't scratching much...
Hmm... Im doing good damage with Reversal surprisingly, but I think I'll try with Flail & Explosion.
Explosion does like as much damage as Flail and Reversal combined.
So I would go Explosion lol
For that LeadTar.... very interesting to say the least. I guess any people agree that Smogon's currently LeadTar has some... issues. It looks like my idea of a LeadTar is different from other's, though. :p Just search for my posts in this thread and you can find mine if you're curious.
So I would go Explosion lol
For that LeadTar.... very interesting to say the least. I guess any people agree that Smogon's currently LeadTar has some... issues. It looks like my idea of a LeadTar is different from other's, though. :p Just search for my posts in this thread and you can find mine if you're curious.
Unless Dragonite has superpower, it loses to the standard, so they won't stay in. The standard Tyranitar requires 80 speed to outrun 'Nite, and with a -speed nature, 160. You really cannot afford that. Also, some Nite leads run more than that to get the jump on Metagross. This will only be of relevance against inexperienced dragonite users and those packing superpower. So, as I suggested earlier, 60 Evs in SpAtk should suffice (and I make it that you only need 140 to make the KO on Dnite anyway)
You need no attack investment for Roserade. If you run 56 attack Evs, smeargle will die to Sandstorm at least by the second turn, denying it any chance of setting up hazards, assuming it puts you to sleep given the chance.
Chesto berry is obviously the superior option only when running rest.
Lead Smeargle @ Choice Scarf
Spore
Trick
Destiny Bond/Trick Room
Rapid Spin
Max Speed and put the rest in defense to survive Lum Metagross leads. This lead tries to counter every other lead out there. With max speed and scarf, no lead except Ninjask/Yanmega and other Scarfers can out speed it. That being said:
Spore Azelf, Aerodactyl, Gliscor, Dragonite, Roserade, Heatran and
Infernape and any other lead not mentioned below. You will have to predict if Roserade is staying in or not.
For Swampert and other slower SR users without taunt, you want to use trick, locking them into SR. Then use spore on the incoming pokemon, and follow up with rapid spin. You also want to use Trick on Champs, as they usually are sub-lum'ers.
Metagross and other Lum leads are troublesome. Having a Magnezone in the wings will help if Smeargle manages to trick a scarf on it, which it usually does. Assuming it isn't locked into EQ, most Gross stay in locked to bullet punch/Mash.
Destiny bond is very helpful if Smeargle is still holding the Scarf later in battle.
Trick Room is there to screw up Ninjask leads
Okay, I made some changes about the EV's spread. The result is:
Tyranitar @ lum berry/ Brave/ sand stream
252 HP, 56 Atk, 28 Def, 60 SAtk, 114 SDef
- Ice Beam
- Payback
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
Changes: Removed the unneeded EV's from SAtk and added some to Atk (enough to OHKO Smeargle) and the rest in added to SDef for some more bulk. Thanks for the suggestions people.
@ Ultimario: I'll check it out. ^^
Tyranitar @ lum berry/ Brave/ sand stream
252 HP, 56 Atk, 28 Def, 60 SAtk, 114 SDef
- Ice Beam
- Payback
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
Changes: Removed the unneeded EV's from SAtk and added some to Atk (enough to OHKO Smeargle) and the rest in added to SDef for some more bulk. Thanks for the suggestions people.
@ Ultimario: I'll check it out. ^^
Alright so I have been testing a new EV spread for the "Bulky Dragon Dance" for Dragonite and it's been working out great. This thing can take hits from both sides of the spectrum, but is significantly bulkier on the special side. One interesting thing to add is that if this Dragonite is the last member on your team, and you are facing stall, there is a good possibility of you making a comeback since you cannot be phazed out and you are immune to toxic spikes. Anyways, here's the set.
Dragonite @ leftovers
Ability: Inner Focus
EV spread: 224 HP/28 atk/100 def/16 spe/140 spDEF
Nature: Careful (+ spDEF - spATK)
-Dragon Dance
-Dragon Claw
-Earthquake
-Roost
With 228 HP 100 def and 140 spdef with a careful nature this thing is a monster at taking hits. It will NEVER be OHKOed by a swampert/suicune ice beam even after SR. I have roost stalled ice beams while setting up dragon dances, this thing is that bulky. (freeze hax or crit is gay though) 16 EVs in speed allow it to reach 300 speed after one dragon dance, allowing it to outpace neutral natured salamence and other base 100s by exactly one point. 28 attack EVs to have some edge in power. I would recommend Magnezone support for this dragonite, since it's easily walled by skarmory and bronzong.
Dragonite @ leftovers
Ability: Inner Focus
EV spread: 224 HP/28 atk/100 def/16 spe/140 spDEF
Nature: Careful (+ spDEF - spATK)
-Dragon Dance
-Dragon Claw
-Earthquake
-Roost
With 228 HP 100 def and 140 spdef with a careful nature this thing is a monster at taking hits. It will NEVER be OHKOed by a swampert/suicune ice beam even after SR. I have roost stalled ice beams while setting up dragon dances, this thing is that bulky. (freeze hax or crit is gay though) 16 EVs in speed allow it to reach 300 speed after one dragon dance, allowing it to outpace neutral natured salamence and other base 100s by exactly one point. 28 attack EVs to have some edge in power. I would recommend Magnezone support for this dragonite, since it's easily walled by skarmory and bronzong.
I'm not sure what the EVs are for on that Dragonite, exactly. 252 HP/200 SpDef with a Careful nature is required to survive an Ice Beam from max SpAtk Timid Suicune (without a Life Orb) after SR and 252 HP/28 SpDef with an Adamant nature is required to survive an Ice Beam from 0 SpAtk Suicune after SR. Also, 252 HP/32 Atk/84 Def/124 SpDef/16 Spe gives you the same physical and special bulk and the same speed with 1 more Atk.
Edit: You should consider running 208 speed (48 EVs) to outspeed Suicune before a Dragon Dance and Roost before it Ice Beams. Also, 252 HP/104 SpDef with a Careful nature allows you to survive an Ice Beam from 0 SpAtk Vaporeon after switching into SR.
Edit: You should consider running 208 speed (48 EVs) to outspeed Suicune before a Dragon Dance and Roost before it Ice Beams. Also, 252 HP/104 SpDef with a Careful nature allows you to survive an Ice Beam from 0 SpAtk Vaporeon after switching into SR.
Heatran@Choice Band/Life Orb
Naughty/Adamant
6 Hp/252 Atk/252 Spe
-Stone Edge
-Earthquake
-Explosion
-Fire Blast/Fire Fang/Iron Head/Crunch
Have fun with blissey. Great coverage, unexpected, and yet still with a 90 base attack stat.
Earthquake and stone edge have great coverage, resisted by bronzong and breloom, who aren't exactly switching into heatran anytime soon. If they do, they have fire blast to answer to. Explosion can hopefully get a KO. Fire fang is a poor attack though though.
Without Adamant, Choice Band, and Iron Head you can't 2HKO standard Wish Blissey and even then you need SR. I'd suggest going with something like Iron Head/Earthquake/Explosion/Overheat. Iron Head and Earthquake get almost as good of coverage as Stone Edge and Earthquake and Overheat makes sure Skarmory doesn't switch in once it realizes you're running Choice Band. Overall, you're probably just better off using a Choice Scarf and blowing up on Blissey since Bulky Waters will still switch in all day on anything but Explosion.
Taunt LO Heatran can already beat most Blissey 1 vs 1, that set is at best a gimmick. Heatran lacks the Atk and the physical learnset to be an effective choice bander, there's really no reason to sacrifice that massive 130 base SpA and wide special movepool for something like that.
Salamence@Draco Plate/Lum berry
Naive
6 Hp/84 Atk/168 SpA/252 Spe
-Draco Meteor
-Dragon Dance
-Outrage
-Earthquake/Fire Blast/Roost
(EVs are open for change, Dragon Claw can be used with Roost)
With Plate or Lum, fake a scarf or specsmence with a quick DM or Fire blast on your first switchin, then Meteor or DD against their switchin next, hopefully sweeping.
From personal experience this set takes out around 2-3 pokes a game, and even repeat opponents have a difficult time dealing with it (maybe i was just playing poor battlers)
Naive
6 Hp/84 Atk/168 SpA/252 Spe
-Draco Meteor
-Dragon Dance
-Outrage
-Earthquake/Fire Blast/Roost
(EVs are open for change, Dragon Claw can be used with Roost)
With Plate or Lum, fake a scarf or specsmence with a quick DM or Fire blast on your first switchin, then Meteor or DD against their switchin next, hopefully sweeping.
From personal experience this set takes out around 2-3 pokes a game, and even repeat opponents have a difficult time dealing with it (maybe i was just playing poor battlers)