np: UU - Rain Drops Keep Falling on my Head

[Heysup]

Whistle, that has probably been the first time I have actually needed the tl;dr at the end.

Guys, if you think all the teams are the same, create an anti-metagame team. For example, the teams that use Lass/Moltres/Swellow have a severe Rock weakness. So abuse Rock-types and you'll fare well against those teams.

I disagree, Rock-types don't do too much good when those three are almost always backed by something like Donphan or Hitmontop as Spinners.

In my opinion Rotom is the hardest Spin blocker to deal with, so Rotom is probably your best bet (Swellow can't fuck it up with Brave Bird) in addition to a reliable Stealth Rock mon.

 

[dbcb]

I think rotom is really under utilized. I love that thing as a defensive spin blocker or as a scarf revenge killer or as a status spreader.

also access to screens = win

I hate, absolutely hate, the sub charge set though. it never produced anything for me whatsoever

 

[Bluewind]

Stopping Clefable with stall is like stopping RestTalk Cresselia, it'll mostly take a while and you'll have to rely on PP stalling. However, you could use something like Trick (Bulky Trick Lass is amazing on stall) and make it much faster.

 

[GMLW]

Heysup, it was just an example. Obviously don't stack your team with Rock-types, that's stupid. I meant that using anti-metagame Pokemon can be very helpful. And even if you have a Donphan or a Hitmontop, having one resist doesn't fix the rock weakness.

 

[Lemmiwinks MkII]

I think Clefable's best set against stall is the Life Orb wallbreaker set with Double Edge / Fire Blast / Grass Knot and all-offensive EVs. That thing can 1-2HKO almost all common stall members with the minimum of hazards support (basically just one Spike layer for the most part). Spiritomb is only 3HKO'd, but often can do naff all back except weaken Double Edge with WoW, but even that ceases to become an option if Clefable makes a smart switch into Toxic first. You might be able to check it once or twice with a Hitmontop, Arcanine or something similar, but with the right offensive checks to these guys backing up Clefable to keep up offensive pressure, they can't forever. Whereas unlike most other hard hitters that can be worn down with hazards / smart switching etc, Clefable just keeps switching in and out without penalty, and even without any defensive investment it finds plenty of safe switches against stall teams, and that's what makes it so dangerous against those kinds of teams.

More defensive versions of Clefable aren't as effective IMO, as stall teams generally carry all the necessary tools to stall you out safely until the PP runs out, or just keep forcing you out until you're the last Pokemon then Perish Song you. They aren't as effective as you might think against stall.

 

[GMLW]

1-2HKO my ass. 4HKO'd Blastoise, 5HKO'd Umbreon. And it's ridiculously slow so it's harder to heal. It's good, but in no way is it an automatic win against stall. Its attacking stats aren't even that good.

 

[HR.]

I'd just like to post saying I agree with everything Whistle says. This is the first metagame for UU that I've been in where I can test random things just for fun, and has also been the first where I have been talking to the other UU players more often instead of hardcore laddering and flipping shit when my rating goes down after a loss. Almost everyone who is high up on the ladder uses niche pokemon or has a unique strategy that they follow. You just have to find what works best for you.

 

[Conflict]

Honestly i find a set of clefable with Encore/Toxic/DoubleEdge/Softboiled harder to deal with for Stall, exspecially when it comes in handy with Spikessupport.
Usually when i fight a Clefable with Stall it comes down to some PP-Stallwars..... it makes those matches unbelievable annoying.

As an sidenote this Set achieves also some use against offensive Teams.

 

[M BLADE]

"When something is easy and it's working very well, why the well should i bother doing something the hard way when it's not even guaranteed to work?"

There it is. Most people minds are like that.

This is a good reason why we see the same damn pokes everywhere.
It's easy to make a team with 6 widely used UU/OU pokes... and it works well most of the time.

I prefer doing something the hard way... when it works, it's more rewarding.
But that's only me.

 

[Lemmiwinks MkII]

1-2HKO my ass. 4HKO'd Blastoise, 5HKO'd Umbreon. And it's ridiculously slow so it's harder to heal. It's good, but in no way is it an automatic win against stall. Its attacking stats aren't even that good.

4HKO on Blastoise, really?

295 SpA LO Grass Knot vs. 252 / 4 neutral Blastoise: 49.72 - 58.56%

A 2HKO, but I assumed the more conventional physically defensive versions, but if you were to use a specially defensive one:

295 SpA LO Grass Knot vs. 252 / 252+ Blastoise: 36.46 - 43.09%

A 3HKO, but this is actually pointless because Double Edge now outdamages it.

As for Umbreon:

215 Atk LO Double Edge vs. 252 / 0 neutral Umbreon: 35.79 - 42.13%

A 3HKO and outpaced, but at least Umbreon has recovery besides Rest, and can also run Defense if it wants to. So essentially, Blastoise has no chance whilst Umbreon has a shot. But neither of them are exactly common Pokemon on stall. Most of the more common sights on stall (Chansey, Omastar, Donphan, Tangrowth, Rotom, Hitmontop, Milotic etc) are potentially 1-2HKO'd like I said.

Also, Clefable is slow but not ridiculously so. It can still outpace base 70s and below, which is a fair chunk of stall pokes, and most of those faster don't threaten it much.

 

[PK Gaming]

I was going through the RMT section earlier, and my God this tier has turned to complete and utter shit. Anyone who argues that UU has more variety than OU needs to seriously reconsider uttering those words before they choke on them. The teams dominating the ladder at the moment are all seemingly carbon copies of one another. It's pretty gay.

Playing is better than watching. I've seen the best of players using a variety of things and still succeed. RMT's certainly do not equal the metagame.

OU is very difficult metagame to use non-standard pokemon. Something "special" around the 40 mark. UU's are out of the question (rare exception occurs)

I've used Raichu and made a pretty decent spot on the leaderboard.

Edit: Agree's with the above. Rotom is UU's best spin blocker, bar none.

 

[SJCrew]

Nothing is out of the question for OU. I've been using lead Claydol for the past year or so and it's absolutely perfect. Nothing else has the speed and bulk to trick a Scarf, set up rocks, and spin the others away. Once its done or I need a free switch-in, I can blow it up. If I see lead Breloom, I can blow up right away and laugh at my opponent. Best lead ever. Duggy works on my heavy offense teams too for those absolutely vital kills on stuff that normally gives my teams hell, like Bliss, non-scarf Hera, and Breloom.

Anything is good in OU so long as it fits your team and there's nothing else that does its job better.

 

[Acritter]

OU is very difficult metagame to use non-standard pokemon. Something "special" around the 40 mark. UU's are out of the question (rare exception occurs)

I'd say the main reason for this is because OU players are more "professional" about the whole game. This isn't an insult to OU or non-OU players, just a description. OU players play OU because it's the most played tier and has the best Pokemon (besides the unbalanced Ubers). They choose OU because it is the most serious tier, and they play seriously. That means that a team with a weak Pokemon on it will get wrecked; it's facing stiff competition on all fronts. UU players are more focused on discovering the game. If they wanted to carefully polish the "perfect team", they'd be in OU. That means that a UU player is more likely to come across players running more unorthodox sets and so a possibly sub-par Pokemon will not be punished, as the opponent has a similar disability.

That's just my take on it, as a casual OU player who stays in OU because he doesn't want to learn a new threat-list.

 

[Thorns]

Uh, I'm tilting like hell these few days. Is it just me playing badly, or does everyone pretty much know my team now (It has been around for a very long time) and how to deal with it?? Should I make a new team??

no heysup and i just use the same team, yours is fine

 

[PK Gaming]

I've played OU too and i'm no pro. There simply isn't any room. Heatran and Infernape literally out do every single fire type collectively. (It's a bit ridiculous really)

 

[M BLADE]

Why we're discussiong OU here?

 

[Golden Sun]

Why we're discussiong OU here?

Because we're comparing UU to OU. I think.

 

[MSB]

Public Service Announcement: Don't test Rampardos. He's just not good...

 

[FlareBlitz]

Actually, I was using a Rampardos lead that worked out decently. Focus Sash, SR, Head Smash, Toxic, Earthquake. His Earthquake actually does a retarded amount of damage to Rhyperior (ignores Solid Rock due to Moldbreaker) and Head Smash 2hkos all Uxie. Additionally, Froslass that try to Taunt you die without getting spikes up and Froslass that try to Dbond you die to Toxic.

 

[MSB]

Focus Sash + Head Smash = wat

And I used a scarf one.

 

[Thund91]

I was going through the RMT section earlier, and my God this tier has turned to complete and utter shit. Anyone who argues that UU has more variety than OU needs to seriously reconsider uttering those words before they choke on them. The teams dominating the ladder at the moment are all seemingly carbon copies of one another. It's pretty gay.

That's what I love about it. I've been abusing gimmicks and less seen Pokemon and it's had some fantastic (and hilarious) results. TrickPlot Tomb and Heal Bell Lopunny ftw.

 

[capefeather]

I think it's just that most UUs are ill-equipped to deal with random threats in comparison to their OU brethren.

 

[froggrunner]

Focus Sash + Head Smash = wat

And I used a scarf one.

I'd think Scarf would be more effective than Focus sash, because with Rampardos's awful speed, it might be able to outrun something, and then you get an extra slot because you won't want to use SR right? Also, if you have sash, Adamant is suggested over Jolly, correct? I apologize in advance if I sound like an idiot; I haven't played very much in actual online gameplay.

 

[Heysup]

Actually, I was using a Rampardos lead that worked out decently. Focus Sash, SR, Head Smash, Toxic, Earthquake. His Earthquake actually does a retarded amount of damage to Rhyperior (ignores Solid Rock due to Moldbreaker) and Head Smash 2hkos all Uxie. Additionally, Froslass that try to Taunt you die without getting spikes up and Froslass that try to Dbond you die to Toxic.

Sorry but you clearly didn't test that.....(FYI Head Smash breaks sash).

That's what I love about it. I've been abusing gimmicks and less seen Pokemon and it's had some fantastic (and hilarious) results. TrickPlot Tomb and Heal Bell Lopunny ftw.

Lol there is a difference between a "good" gimmick (HBell Lopunny) and a bad gimmick (TrickPlot Tomb...come on really??).

I think it's just that most UUs are ill-equipped to deal with random threats in comparison to their OU brethren.

I think this just ties in with the immense instability that is the UU metagame at the moment. Too many "centralizing" threats / walls = not enough counters / sweepers to deal with them.

 

[FlareBlitz]

Yeah I forgot Rampardos doesn't get Rock Head (really GF? >_>). I used Stone Edge. It was a long time ago, give me a break. Rampy isn't all that slow either, as far as the lead position goes, since it's still going to outrun defensive Uxie and everything below, and probably 2hko them.