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I don't what to take exactly, but I don't understand why Shadow Tag is so excellent. Yes, I can stop a switch if they don't have Baton Pass, but to be honest, that's not too useful. Until we get the movepool sorted out, Shadow Tag will only counter status-users/ Choice holders using the wrong move (i.e. Thunderbolt) properly. Not so useful in my opinion. Could be proved wrong if it works.
Also, while this may or may not be considered "flavour", we cannot advocate whether an ability will work with the chosen artwork. For example, if CAP 10 ends up looking like a stormcloud, then Battle Armour will make no sense. Similarly, a crab wouldn't work well with something like Sticky Hold, for example, as the ability suggests something ooze-like, not something with a firm shell.
TL;DR, if we choose to decide now, we may as well go with Intimidate/ Magic Guard. The only "real"* threat against CAP 10 is looking to be Earthquake in terms of direct attack for now, while Leech Seed is looking to be the most problematic Grass move against CAP 10, due to a general agreement to have low-weight. This means we can choose to either be more effective against direct attacks or immune to things such as SR, Spikes and Leech Seed.
I think we should wait for the artwork to be finished before sorting this out however - I cannot see a cute Pokemon running Intimidate, and if Wyverii's Polar Bear concept wins, it looks like a Static user rather than anything else.
@ *: Please note I mean in terms of SE hits - '+1 Outrage from DDMence' is much more dangerous in terms of use, as we cannot make CAP 10 immune to Dragon. Similarly, Wood Hammer is definitely damaging but it isn't run by many Pokemon.
Shadow Tag would be game breaking on so many pokemon. I mean, how many times do you have to switch out to a counter? You know how Magnezone had that massive surge in popularity when Scizor got Bullet Punch, because of its ability? Now imagine that same situation but with an ability which can trap anything.
E.g. just to rub it in: Something like Lucario switches in against a Blissey. Blissey can't switch. This Shadow Tag abusing hypothetical pokemon then proceeds to Swords Dance, kill Blissey, then sweep.
Shadow Tag would be game breaking on so many pokemon. I mean, how many times do you have to switch out to a counter? You know how Magnezone had that massive surge in popularity when Scizor got Bullet Punch, because of its ability? Now imagine that same situation but with an ability which can trap anything.
E.g. just to rub it in: Something like Lucario switches in against a Blissey. Blissey can't switch. This Shadow Tag abusing hypothetical pokemon then proceeds to Swords Dance, kill Blissey, then sweep.
If CAP10 gets Shadow Tag, it probably won't get any kind of set up move (he doesn't need them to do his job anyway). I'd rather have a Pokémon which can grant me to take out that specific threat my team falls to, rather than a more generic wall, sweeper. Also, to all the people who think that Shadow Tag is broken because it allows CAP10 to take on too many Pokémon at once: do you really think that the spread/moveset ideal to take on, say, Metagross (which will probably involve high def along with decent SpA and Speed), can let you kill also Latias (which require high SpD investment and decent Atk or very good SpA)?
EDIT: @Seizen: Mawile has Intimidate. More generally, we don't let artwork influence competitive decisions at all, and viceversa. Period.
While for the most part I disagree with custom abilities... I think that an ability similar to Shadow Tag could be used. Hypothetical move, Anchor.
Anchor:
When this Pokemon switches in neither Pokemon can switch-out. This effect ends when this Pokemon faints. Once this Pokemon switches in it cannot switch-out unless it uses Baton Pass, U-Turn, etc...
I'm surprised how few times Technician has been mentioned. If CAP10's movepool is comprised of mostly low base power moves then the choice between technician to boost their power and another ability could aid in the customizability aspect. This could be thinking too far ahead, but if the pokemon has no moves stronger than hidden power that could be his customized trump card move to counter not much more than what it is supposed to.
Another ability I would recommend would have to be something defensive. I have nothing specific in mind.
Shadow Tag is broken beyond belief and I'm stunned that this discussion is even happening.
CAP10 is only supposed to counter a given set of Pokemon, OK, but what the hell do you think it does against the ones it hasn't been tailored for? Roll over and die? CAP10 needs no customisation at all to be countering Pokemon such as Skarmory, Vaporeon and even Heatran. With Shadow Tag then, CAP10 can dispatch those guys 100% of the time. And the ability to guarantee a kill on any Pokemon you desire through customisation ontop of this? That's just ridiculous.
Because Shadow Tag is still being brought up, I feel the need to address it in more detail. We already know that CAP10 will have excellent speed, and that it will have either 84 Atk and 83 SpA, or 81 Atk and 80 SpA. For the sake of argument, let's say that this Pokemon is using Modest 252 SpA, 252 Speed//6 HP, Life Orb, with a set of Surf/Thunderbolt/Ice Beam/HP Fire. With Deck Knight's stat spread, that set using Shadow Tag would single-handedly spell the death of virtually every defensive team, particularly used in tandem with a U-turn user. With this set, it is possible to OHKO Skarmory, Gyarados, Hippowdon (likely with Surf, guaranteed if you use Hydro Pump, and if Hydro Pump hits), Forretress and Gliscor. Of these, the only Pokemon that has any chance at all to beat CAP10@Shadow Tag (assuming CAP10 comes in on U-turn) is Gliscor, which can at least outspeed it (assuming Deck Knight's spread), but still only does 60.9% - 71.8% with a relatively weak Earthquake. In other words, a Shadow Tag Pokemon with even mediocre offensive capabilities like CAP10 can dismantle an entire defensive team with little effort.
Edit: By the way, against offense the same set would essentially auto-kill Heatran, Empoleon, Jirachi without Calm Mind, Scizor, Suicune, Tentacruel, Starmie, Gyarados, Vaporeon and Dragonite. None of those woud be able to deal any kind of significant damage to CAP10 if it comes in on U-turn (except Dragonite with Extremespeed). Note that Shadow Tag would guarantee that all of these die, essentially for free.
Shadow Tag gets a mention just to say this: Are you guys insane? Wobbuffett is Uber because of Shadow Tag. It's moveset hasn't changed much from G/S/C, and he was abysmally bad back then. Since then, he got Shadow Tag. It's like Drought/Drizzle, an ability that is Uber.
Trace I'm throwing support towards. Both Tracers fail to hit hard enough, or last long enough, but Porygon2, despite this, almost made OU. Imagine something which could be bulkier than Porygon 2 getting Trace? It would be very useful.
Levitate is a no-go. Immunity to Ground would write out the customisability of this CAP, because, let's face it, everyone would use Levitate.
Natural Cure might be useful, helps in countering Status users. I'm against Poision Heal, if only because I think on something with this much HP, it would make too good of a wall, if it's healing 12.5% each turn, and is immune to being effected by Toxic.
I'm going to throw something out of the left wing, and suggest Magic Guard. CAP10's major issue, without a trapping ability, or Persuit, is going to be:
"OMG it's CAP10 being sent aout against my Mance! It must be Anti-Mance [Switches out]"
CAP10 then has to switch out, and racks up hazard damage.
Magic Guard would remove the effect of this piling damage, meaning that the "OMG CAP10 {Switches}" thing is not going to harm CAP10, which will greatly aid in countering. In fact, not taking hazard damage will do this in the first place. With offensive stats not even topping 90, Life Orb attacks without recoil will not be broken either, Clefable has 70/85 Offenses, and a large movepool, but it's UU, sure the Speed may make it otherwise, but, at least we know we won't be hitting like a truck.
So, yeah, the two abilities I am throwing major support for are: Magic Guard
Trace
I'm giving some aknowledgement towards: Natural Cure
I'm AGAINST: Levitate
Poision Heal
Shadow Tag
All other abilites mentioned strike me as 'Meh'. Neither bad, nor good.
It is a combination of Shadow Tag and Encore that makes Wobbuffet Uber. However, the ability I suggested previously, seems like the perfect ability for this Pokemon.
Anchor:
When this Pokemon switches in neither Pokemon can switch-out. This effect ends when this Pokemon faints (or U-turns, Baton Pass). Once this Pokemon switches in it cannot switch-out unless it uses Baton Pass, U-Turn, etc...
I couldn't believe it when I saw Shadow Tag come up in this discussion in the first place, but some of these recent posts are even more insane. Giving this ability to the attack-less Wobuffet was enough to elevate it to Ubers after having been a mere curiosity in the 2nd gen - am I seriously seeing people dismissing it as not powerful enough?
To the people who say Shadow Tag fulfills the mission statement because it allows CAP 10 to eliminate a single threat and won't help it against the rest of the opponent's team, I have one thing to say. Even if this claim was true (and it's not, as reachzero's calcs clearly show) a CAP 10 with Shadow Tag would not be in accordance with the mission statement. This Pokemon is supposed to be a Utility Counter - a person using it must plan in advance what specific enemies they want it to defeat. It should not be able to switch into anything and defeat it, even if it will be KOd after doing so. That would be a suicide mon, not a counter.
Edit: @God Bless Atheism: The ability you propose is interesting, but I feel it's still a bit overpowered. Also, it may lead to CAP 10 losing versatility, which would go against the spirit of the project. I'd rather CAP 10 had a less powerful ability, and could use moves like U-Turn, Encore, Safeguard, etc. With Anchor, having these moves would break it, so they'd have to be removed...do you get what I'm trying to say?
While for the most part I disagree with custom abilities... I think that an ability similar to Shadow Tag could be used. Hypothetical move, Anchor.
Anchor:
When this Pokemon switches in neither Pokemon can switch-out. This effect ends when this Pokemon faints. Once this Pokemon switches in it cannot switch-out unless it uses Baton Pass, U-Turn, etc...
But that removes this Pokemon's ability to bluff away potential threats. With a different ability, I could swap in my anti-Tyranitar CAP10 against a MMence and he would have to choose whether or not to call my bluff. I take a big risk with this ability, and CAP10 shouldn't be about risks, it should be about versatility.
In principle, I find Special Intimidate great. After listening to Reach a bit (And that obnoxious Porygon fellow! What a dick!!), I feel as though a Special Intimidate - given the typing of the CAP - might not be necessary. It already resists the STAB options of so many of the special attackers in OU, that it isn't that much of an issue to not carry Special Intimidate.
For that reason, I'm currently in support of Intimidate and Trace in that order.
In theory, CAP10 is suppose to be some kind of suicide/cannon fodder Pokemon. It suppose to be useful against one thing and crap-tastically bad against everything else. After it kills it's intended target, it's generally considered useless or not needed and can be left there to die since it just fulfilled it's mission statement.
OK, let's consider how Intimidate would affect CaP10 with the following set, assuming Deck Knight wins the stat poll (he's got a 2/3 majority at the moment; it seems likely).
Now, that's a very large number of physical attackers. You've basically got Metagross, offensive Gliscor, CB/DDTar, Offensive Swampert, and Machamp that you're not countering. Metagross, CB/DDTar, and Machamp are decently common, but offensive Gliscor and Swampert were nearly unheard of in January's stats. If CaP10 doesn't get recover, you can always throw in some more coverage like Grass/Fire move to cement more counters. Intimidate is really a little too much for something that's supposed to be able to not counter too many things at once.
Realy cool ability, allowing it to switch in and take hits no matter the weather hazards and so on. If 3 layers of spikes SR and sandstorm is up, you severly lose your countering potential. Even just SR and Sandstorm can make you lose to 2HKOs you'd otherwise take with ease.
Trace
Realy good, I like it alot but it might be a lil too powerfull. I mean when Porygon2 can counter Heatran, Mence, and Gyra at the same time thanks to it, imagine what this CAP would do. Allthough Pory have to get some luck on switch you'd eliminate that problem with this CAP thanks to it's speed, and with a more diverse offensive movepool you get something terrifying.
I may have overexadurated, there would only be a small group of pokes it would counter at the same time thanks to Trace. Still think it would be a good ability.
Shadow Tag
This, this is an awesome ability. It got me thinking and relized I realy want to use a bulky Shadow Tager. It would be realy fun to use along with a U-Turner. But it might be over the broken line. And yeah, would turn to a suicide mon. Allthough on the other hand, if the poke just switch out you'd just wasted your pokemon as it should have taken enough damage so it can't avoid those 2HKOs from the same pokemon later in the game.
I suport it just because i wont to try a Shadow Tager in OU enviorment. (We might learn something from it argument) This would let us see it it was Encore that made this ability so powerfull.
Special Inimidate, Stupid idea, limits both ability slots, just increase chance of it being used as a general wall not very original and we are making new abilities we can be more creative then that.
Defensive Download, Like special intimidate but suports a mixed wall and stays even if the other pokemon switches out.
Custom Ground Grass imunities. Didn't we chose this typing so we wouldn't need any of those? And if you fear SE hits, type resist berries is an option. Sure it removes any other item but an ability removes other abilities.
Since when does CAP10 get Recover and Hydro Pump? I seriously doubt it will need either of those and I believe Recover goes against the mission statement. I think this is a bit of poll jumping.
Sure, it'll counter some of those threats (as some of the ones you listed won't really do the trick case and point Breloom) but if you don't poll jump to giving it certain very valuable moves, it will really only counter some of these one at a time. For example it won't be able to handle DD Mence after it deals with CB Mamoswine.
Invalid reason - this project is about taking a concept and creating a pokemon to fulfil that concept, not just about making whatever the hell we want.
Invalid reason - this project is about taking a concept and creating a pokemon to fulfil that concept, not just about making whatever the hell we want.
I'm not making it whatever the hell i want. I still try to fulfil the role. Still, the reason I'd give suport for this is that i want to use a Shadow Tager in OU enviorment.
Not like i would wote for it over some other abilities just because i want to. I can still suport something while suporting something else more.
I'm going to try and make a case for Download as one of this CAP's best ways to achieve its goals within the bounds of the concept. Before I do that, I'm going to give a rundown of OU and what boosts they would give our CAP as it switches in:
As you can see, a solid majority of OU Pokemon are weaker on the special-defensive side, so Download CAP will in most cases be getting a SpA boost. However, there are still those 19 Atk boosters and 10 50/50s (29 total) that could spoil the fun and one ever-present pink blob that could force you out, so the effect is somewhat balanced. The point is that, before the battle, you can look at your countee and see on which defense it is more vulnerable, tailor your movepool and EVs to threaten that particular threat at +1 (which these attack stats would really appreciate) and then actually threaten the countee in the battle.
For example, say I am in dire need of a Machamp counter and I have Download as an ability. I see that it is weaker physically, so I can expect to get an Attack boost upon switching in. So, using Deck's stats and an EV spread of 252 Atk, 252 Def Adamant, I would get final stats of 446 HP / 293 Atk / 245 Def / x / 184 SpD / 246 Spe, which would do only 33.6% - 39.8% with Waterfall and 44.8% - 53.1% with Zen Headbutt. Waterfall is walled with Leftovers and Rest, while Zen Headbutt is not, however, you will be taking at least two DynamicPunches for 39% - 46% damage as you try and take it out and might not even defeat it due to confusion. Now, at +1, thanks to Download, your Waterfall does 50.3% - 59.4%, a possible 2HKO, and Zen Headbutt does 67.2% - 79.2%, a very clean 2HKO, meaning you only have to take one DynamicPunch (or two, taking into account confuse hax, as opposed to three previously. I also won't discount flinch hax from Zen headbutt, but I can't say for sure whether or not CAP will get the move to begin with). Whereas before RestTalk Machamp could potentially defeat your Machamp counter one-on-one, now it is effectively countered.
So you just defeated Machamp and now you're ready to sweep at +1, right? No, your speed is too low to run through an opponent's team. But say you went with the doomsday sweeper spread of 252 Atk / 216 Spe Jolly, well, you just 2HKO'd Machamp (ONLY if you didn't switch into DynamicPunch. If you did, you lost because you were 2HKO'd) but ate 52% - 61.4% from DynamicPunch (if you survived through Confusehax, which, if you didn't, Machamp is still alive and kicking and you're not), and you are still revenged just as easily sitting at 48% max health (36% w/ SR) by anything Scarfed or with usable priority (Lucario) or able to take a physical hit (of which there are plenty). You're also sitting at 400 Atk due to the +Spe nature and have roughly the sweeping potential of Agiligross (albeit quite a bit slower).
That's just one example.
A (non-binding, but interesting) caveat to this, which I think some people who fear giant movepools might appreciate, would be a coverage movepool of 80 BP or lower attacks, ensuring that it will be tailored to counter specific Pokemon without going on a rampage, which I don't think is inappropriate at all. This, however, is neither here nor there.
tl/dr: The doomsday sweeper concern with Download CAP 10 is not too much of a concern, as, even at +1, this CAP is still weaker than Metagross, Salamence, Alakazam, Magnezone, Porygon-Z (all of which manage to find ways of being walled or defeated outright in common battle conditions) or what have you and doesn't have the incredible physical STAB potential of its nearest comparable Pokemon, Garchomp. It can choose which stat it will benefit from raising only before the battle starts (customizing!) and must pick coverage moves to abuse the stat boost (again!) that are tailored to specific threats that are weak on that particular spectrum.
But I do understand the fear of a special sweeper CAP 10 if it gets Download. To address this concern, I have supplied the necessary calcs and my own analysis:
Based on this, I say Hydro Pump is just a bit too overpowered for Download CAP, as it has the ability to OHKO almost half of the spreads I've listed here if Stealth Rock is down. The accuracy of the move is somewhat of a balance, but CAP has the bulk to miss once or twice, and bad accuracy can't be depended on always. On the plus side, there is plenty of precedent for Water-types not learning Hydro Pump, including the Slowpoke, Seel, Shellder, and Krabby lines, among many others. Besides, is anybody really going to miss it, considering it's a primarily defensive Pokemon? I don't want to rule out Download based off of the assumption that it will get a certain move, but I also don't want to argue that it should get Download so long as it doesn't get that same move, so I'll just leave it there and hope nobody else makes those arguments either.
These numbers are much more manageable and give a much more appealing results for a non-sweeper. A huge number of opponents move into the 2HKO range and the OHKO list is cut by over half, giving the opponent plenty of time to retaliate defensively, if not offensively.
Okay now, here are the Pokemon that are reliably OHKO'd by CAP 10's +1 STAB Surf and Thunderbolt + one turn of SR damage:
Aerodactyl
Azelf
Gengar
Gliscor
Heatran
Hippowdon
Infernape
Mamoswine
Ninjask
Smeargle
Empoleon
Gyarados
Salamence
Skarmory
Starmie
Offensive Suicune
Now we'll add Ice Beam to the set because it's a natural coverage move.
I would add a fourth coverage move, but I have no idea what this thing's movepool will look like, and I imagine the fourth move will change depending on what in particular is being countered.
Anyway, here's the new list of OHKOs, incorporating Ice Beam:
Aerodactyl
Azelf
Gengar
Gliscor
Heatran
Hippowdon
Infernape
Mamoswine
Ninjask
Smeargle
Empoleon
Gyarados
Salamence
Skarmory
Starmie
Offensive Suicune
Breloom
Dragonite
Roserade
Offensive Zapdos
Remove things that outspeed CAP and do defensive calcs:
Keep in mind these Pokemon are switching into CAP 10 after it gets its boost. If CAP switches in against Azelf or Infernape as they Nasty Plot (or CC in Infernape's case), Gengar as it Subs (or Gengar in general, as it gives an Atk boost and +0 Surf doesn't OHKO), ScarfTran as it Earth Powers, or Aerodactyl as it Earthquakes, it will lose.
So, assuming you've found a way of advantageously switching in on a non-threat that gave you a SpA boost and forcing it out, the chance of outspeeding and OHKOing after switching in on CAP 10 for these offensive threats is more or less average (with the possible revenge options of Azelf and Scarf Roserade), which is okay, in my opinion, giving CAP a solid list of offensive checks/non-counters depending on at what level of health you managed to get your CAP 10 in on.
The final list of Pokemon, then, who simply can't switch in on +1 CAP in any circumstance and threaten it out is this:
Gliscor
Hippowdon
Mamoswine (with the exception of the very rare Scarf set: 89.2% - 105.4% w/ Earthquake)
Smeargle
Empoleon
Gyarados
Salamence
Skarmory
Starmie
Offensive Suicune
Offensive Zapdos
This isn't a very overwhelming "sweeping" list. Most of these Pokemon would have no business checking or countering CAP regardless of ability. Based on this, I have come to the conclusion that this CAP won't be sweeping entire teams; it'll just be another bulky attacker like Colossoil that needs to be worn down more often than it needs to be OHKO'd, which is in no way broken or bad.
Now let's look at some check/countering possibilities that weren't listed above (using the same spread), including both revenge killing and defensive checking:
Code:
[B]Blissey
[/B][U]WishBliss:[/U] Full stop. Status cripples CAP.
[B]Celebi
[/B][U]Scarf:[/U] - 2HKO'd by +1 Surf --> +1 Ice Beam, but never OHKO'd by just Ice Beam
Leaf Storm: 110.3% - 129.6% [B]OHKO[/B]
[U]LO Celebi[/U][U]:[/U] - same as Scarf
Leaf Storm: 142.6% - 168.2% [B]OHKO[/B]
Energy Ball: 82.1% - 96.9% [B]~OHKO w/SR[/B]
Grass Knot (20 BP): 20.6% - 24.7%
Grass Knot (100 BP): 102.2% - 120.2% [B]OHKO[/B]
[U]Defensive Celebi:[/U] not 2HKO'd by +1 Surf --> +1 Ice Beam + SR + Leftovers, 2HKO'd by +1 Ice Beam
Thunder Wave: Stops the sweep
Grass Knot (20 BP): 12.6% - 15.2%
Grass Knot (80 BP): 49.8% - 59.2% [B]2HKO[/B]
Grass Knot (120 BP): 74.4% - 87.9%
[B]Bronzong
[/B][U]Standard Wall:[/U] - only potentially 3HKO'd by +1 Surf
Earthquake: 39% - 46.2% [B]~2HKO w/SR
[/B]TrickBand/Iron Ball: Partial stop.
Explosion: 97.1% - 114.3% [B]OHKO
Electivire
[/B][U]MixVire:[/U] - outruns if it switches into Thunderbolt, isn't OHKO'd by +1 Surf
HP-Grass: 46.6% - 55.4% [B]2HKO w/SR
[/B][U]Physical:[/U] - same as Mixvire
Earthquake: 75.8% - 89.2% [B]2HKO
Flygon
[/B][U]Scarf:[/U]
Earthquake: 74.4% - 87.9% [B]2HKO
Forretress
[/B][U]Physically Defensive:[/U] - never OHKO'd by +1 Surf
Earthquake: 40.4% - 48%
Explosion: 100.9% - 118.8% [B]OHKO[/B]
[U]Specially Defensive[/U]: - small chance of being 2HKO'd by +1 Surf if SR is down
Earthquake: 38.1% - 44.8%
Explosion: 93.9% - 110.5% [B]OHKO w/SR
Heracross
[/B][U]Scarf:[/U] - is never OHKO'd by +1 Surf, but is OHKO'd after 1 CC
Megahorn: 57.2% - 67.5% [B]2HKO
Jirachi
[/B][U]CM Wish:[/U] - takes 42.6% - 50.5% from +1 Surf with no boosts, can set up on CAP 10
[U]Scarf:[/U] - potentially 2HKO'd by +1 Surf
Zen Headbutt: 29.8% - 35.2% [B]reliable 3HKO w/SR, flinch hax makes it a viable option
Jolteon
[/B][U]Specs:[/U] - never OHKO'd by +1 Surf, can come in on Thunderbolt with ease
Thunderbolt: 59.2% - 70% [B]2HKO[/B]
HP-Grass: 58.3% - 69.1% [B]2HKO[/B]
[U]LO:[/U] - same as Specs, but has chance of fainting to LO recoil as it 2HKOs
Thunderbolt: 51.6% - 61% [B]2HKO[/B]
HP-Grass: 50.7% - 59.6% [B]2HKO[/B]
[B]Kingdra
[/B][U]DD:[/U] - can DD through +1 Thunderbolt
+1 Outrage: 91.7% - 108.3% [B]OHKO w/SR
Latias
[/B][U]Specs:[/U] - 2HKO'd by +1 Surf --> +1 Ice Beam, never OHKO'd by +1 Ice Beam
Draco Meteor: 87.4% - 103.1% [B]OHKO w/SR[/B]
[U]Defensive CM:[/U] - sets up on CAP and able to CM before it attacks, taking 37.2% - 43.8% from +1 Ice Beam after one CM, Recoverable
[B]Machamp[/B][U]
RestTalk:[/U] - never OHKO'd by +1 Surf
DynamicPunch: 49.1% - 57.8% [B]2HKO w/SR, confuse hax can buy time
Metagross
[/B][U]Lead:[/U] - never OHKO'd by +1 Surf
Earthquake: 66.4% - 78.5% [B]2HKO[/B]
Expolsion: 165.7% - 195.1% [B]OHKO
[/B][U]Band:[/U] - never OHKO'd by +1 Surf
Earthquake: 99.6% - 117.5% [B]OHKO[/B]
[U]Agiligross:[/U] - same as CB, can set up one Agility
Earthquake: 87.4% - 103.1% [B]OHKO w/SR
Rotom-C
[/B][U]Scarf:[/U] - never OHKO'd by +1 Surf
Leaf Storm: 75.8% - 89.2% [B]2HKO[/B]
[B]Scizor
[/B][U]Band:[/U] - never OHKO'd by +1 Surf
U-turn: 51.3% - 60.8% [B]2HKO[/B]
[B]Snorlax
[/B][U]Curselax:[/U] Full stop. Sets up on CAP 10.
[B]Swampert
[/B][U]MixPert:[/U] - never 2HKO'd w/ SR + Leftovers
Earthquake: 64.6% - 75.8% [B]2HKO[/B]
[U]CursePert:[/U] - takes 34.2% - 40.1% from +1 Surf; can't set up, but can RestStall w/Leftovers
[B]Tyranitar
[/B][U]Scarf:[/U] - never OHKO'd by +1 Surf
Earthquake: 61% - 71.7% [B]2HKO[/B]
[U]Band:[/U] - same as Scarf
Earthquake: 100% - 117.9% [B]OHKO[/B]
[U]DD:[/U] - same as Scarf, can set up one DD
Earthquake: 66.8% - 78.9% [B]2HKO[/B]
+1 Earthquake: 100% - 117.9% [B]OHKO
CAP 10
[/B][U]0HP / 252 SpD+:[/U] - never OHKO'd by +1 Thunderbolt, small chance of being 2HKO'd w/SR
Thunder Wave: Stops the sweep
[U]Same Spread:[/U] - same as defensive spread, only 2HKO'd by + 1 Thunderbolt, gets SpA boost w/ Download
+1 Thunderbolt: 49.78% - 58.74% [B]2HKO[/B]
Totals: Revenge Killers: Celebi, Flygon, Latias, Rotom-C, Tyranitar
Offensive Checks: Electivire, Heracross, Jolteon, Kingdra, Metagross, Tyranitar, CAP 10
Defensive Checks: Bronzong, Machamp, Swampert, CAP 10
Counters: Blissey, CM Wish Jirachi, Defensive CM Latias, Snorlax
According to these calcs, there are plenty of common presences in the metagame to check special sweeper CAP 10, and that's "worst case scenario" special sweeper CAP 10, with maximum proper EV investment. I won't get into defensive Download sets, since they won't hit nearly as hard and will have many more checks and counters, especially defensive ones, nor will I go into physical sweeper sets, as most of the metagame is well prepared for physical attacks and this CAP will pose much less of a threat in that regard, so this is as bad as it gets. Download CAP 10 is an offensive force, absolutely, but it is far from a generic sweeper.
Keep in mind, this set must find an opportunity to switch in without taking too much damage AND get the appropriate stat boost in order to attempt a sweep. This set fails to switch into stat-upping threats such as DD Salamence, DD Dragonite, DD Gyarados, DD Kingdra, DD Tyranitar, NP Azelf, NP Infernape, SD Lucario (if it's taken at least 40% damage), Offensive CM Latias, etc. (especially considering some will give unwanted offensive boosts, depending on how you customize your CAP) and do much at all. A Scarf would be incredibly useful for customizing to these threats, but, as it locks you into a move, is just as counterable as every other Scarf-wielder in OU and is thus less threatening than non-Scarf variants. However, at the same time, bluff Scarf sets could play useful mindgames. All in all, the worry over sweeping is not adequately backed up by actual calculations and the ability actually helps the concept much more than it hurts it.
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Okay now final thoughts on pro-Download. Here's how you customize your CAP:
1) identify countee
2) identify weaker defensive side
3) EV for Atk or SpA enough to threaten countee, forfeiting ability to hit with any kind of power from the opposite spectrum
4) select proper SE move(s) from movepool on that side of the spectrum with which to hit your countee
In battle:
1) CAP 10 switches into countee, CAP 10's (Special) Atack is raised
2) opponent identifies increased threat towards current on-field Pokemon and recognizes inability to defeat it one-on-one due to the attack increase
3) opponent switches out current Pokemon
4) countee is countered
One of Download's greatest strengths is the mindgames it'll play. No one sees Download Porygon-Z and fears that it might have physical attacks to abuse. CAP 10 could switch in on Blissey and Hippowdon just the same and the opponent will need to make a decision to switch or stay, as he/she hasn't seen your moveset yet and whatever attack stat is raised has no bearing on what attacks you're actually carrying. It's a good bluff set and can help you deal with threats on a mental basis as well as a gameplay basis. I think that alone is enough to give Download a serious consideration.
I've seen a lot of people argue that Shadow Tag is far too broken for the concept, and I would agree; there is no way to counter a pokemon that you can't switch out on. However, as a Utility Counter, it should be able to trap the pokemon it is supposed to counter so that it can effectively eliminate it. Therefore I suggest a custom ability in the form of:
Target [Pokemon Name]: When CAP 10 switches into its target, the target pokemon is trapped. The pokemon cannot switch out, but may still switch via Baton Pass.
Basically, you would specify a pokemon your team has trouble with, and the ability will prevent just that pokemon from switching out. Since CAP 10 is meant to be a pokemon you can customize to defeat a specific threat your team is weak to, just the pokemon you specify as the target would be affected by the ability. This way, the ability isn't so overpowered that CAP 10 does something beyond its niche of Utility Counter, and it increases the capability with which it can counter something. In terms of existing abilities, I support Trace, Magic Guard, and Natural Cure. Trace allows CAP 10 to counter so many pokemon, making it a much more effective Porygon2. Magic Guard makes switching in easy and prevents harmful status effects from screwing CAP 10 from countering certain pokemon. Natural Cure is a less effective Magic Guard in that it protects from status (to some extent) but leaves it susceptible to SR, Spikes, and TS.
EDIT: God Bless Atheism's Ability seems similar to mine, but while reading it I wasn't sure whether he meant to just trap a target pokemon, or to trap a broader array of pokemon.
I've been toying with a couple of abilities that are like Colossoil's auto-Magic Guard... basically, they're the same in that they only last the first turn that CAP-10 switches in, and are automatic. I know custom abilities are mostly frowned upon, but I thought I'd throw these out there for consideration:
Auto-Taunt: It's a means of preventing SR setup on the switchin if you predict correctly. Could have any number of other applications, such as avoiding status like Thunder Wave and Will-O-Wisp, (in the event of a physical set) while preventing setup moves like Dragon Dance, Substitute, Screens, etc-- but only on the turn of the switch-in.
Auto-Haze: Cancels all stat changes on the switchin, simple. Possibly unnecessary or redundant next to an ability like Unaware or Intimidate... Also might not be much good against guys like Salamence or Scizor who only need one stat-up, but consider the possiblity of erasing a Suicune's 5-6 Calm Mind boosts just by switching in.
I'll repost the list and add some more as I think of them. I'm trying to think of moves that would be very useful, but not too good... for instance, like an auto-SR or auto-screens or something would be no good (well... too good, rather, but you get the idea).
Any thoughts on these?
-EDIT- Also, I think any abilities even remotely resembling Shadow Tag SHOULD BE AVOIDED. There's already an ability for this, and it's unquestionably broken. There's no reason why we should try to make a watered-down version of it-- barring the fact that Shadow Tag is broken, I'm opposed to it and all other similar abilities simply because it turns CAP-10 into a one-off counter, against which it'll probably die while taking its opponent down with it. THIS IS NOT WHAT WE'RE AFTER WITH CAP-10-- come up with something else, PLEASE.
You can just focus on Speed > Def as with the Attack boost you can still KO before Machamp can for the most part. Not to mention +1 Attack makes confusion more dangerous. And foes like Infernape have proven you don't need absolutely stellar offenses or speed in order to mixsweep. A good movepool and decent stats do this.
I don't think it would be a doomsday sweeper, however it takes the defensive focus away from CAP10. A Choice item isn't something most would like but it will be necessary in tank situations I would think. I'd rather limit CAP10's options with a Choice item than give it an ability with absolutely no recoil.
@Gothic Togekiss: I think you misunderstood what I was trying to say. I don't think CAP 10 would be a Suicide mon with Shadow Tag, I think it would just be incredibly overpowered. However, many of the people that do support Shadow Tag (such as yourself) justify their choice by saying that it would allow CAP 10 to counter one opposing mon perfectly and then get KOd. My point was that even if this was correct, it seems kind of a waste...if we wanted the ultimate suicide mon, we would have just made a normal type with base 160 attack, Explosion, and Scrappy. But that's a moot point, since Shadow Tag would have a much different effect if it was actually put into use.
In a perfect world, this CAP would be able to eliminate its counters while being completely useless against everything else. But we can't help the fact that it undoubtedly will counter other Pokemon...Skarmory, Scizor, and Gyarados spring to mind. Unless we cut all CAP 10s stab moves or severely lower its Special Attack, it will destroy these guys. Pokemon need to be able to switch out of CAP 10, or it will be broken.
@Zarator - I don't get the point of your example. You're right, a CAP 10 with Shadow Tag probably couldn't counter both Metagross and Latias at once. How does this make Shadow Tag any less broken? Even if it had Intimidate, or Special Intimidate, or Download, CAP 10 would still be unable to win in this scenario. What I find more troubling is that a CAP 10 built to counter Latias would also counter Skarmory, and Scizor, and Gyarados, and...look, why am I making this list all over again?
Edit: @Maci12 - I have nothing against most custom abilities, but your Target (Pokemon Name) is going a little far in my opinion. We have to keep the mechanics of the Pokemon games in mind when we're designing CAPs. Smogon-created abilities like Rebound and Persistent would work in-game, but yours runs into problems. How would a player select which Pokemon to trap? Would they open some sort of menu and scroll through 493 choices? And what's the point of a Pokedex, now that this feature can reveal Pokemon that the player has not seen yet?
@Reikaria: That's an interesting argument for Magic Guard - CAP 10 probably would rack up a good amount of entry hazard damage. I've ignored most of the arguments for this ability so far, because they seem a bit childish ("Hey, Magic Guard protects against Status! XD that's so cool!") However, I'm still worried that people would abuse this ability to make a sweeper, as it protects against Life Orb recoil. I'm probably gonna get flamed for saying this, but what about a custom ability that only protects against entry hazard damage? Personally, I still prefer the Intimidate/Special Intimidate combo, but what do all youse think?
@X-I omg: I'm sure that you would love to try a Shadow Tager (did you mean Tagger?) in an OU environment. Trouble is, a CAP 10 with Shadow Tag would only stay in OU for about five seconds before being sent to Ubers. Besides that, thank you for suggesting a brand new ability - Special Inimidate. It may look like Special Intimidate spelled wrong, but it's actually very different. Trust me.
@bgg1996: I think an ability that automatically causes fainting might be a little overpowered. In general, this idea just seems a bit too broad...you'll need to narrow it down if you want to get feedback from anyone.
insert_name_here: Specific pokemon/pokemon-type (determined by IVs or item or something) gains effect X/stat decrease Y/Faint when battling this pokemon.
I would like to suggest Klutz: giving CAP10 an item that could break a specific pokemon (such as giving a wall a choice scarf or black sludge, or a sweeper a lagging tail) without receiving it's negative effects would be a great asset that would make CAP10 easily tailored to a particular threat. Of course, this would require CAP10 to know Trick or Switcharoo.
