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np: UU - Rain Drops Keep Falling on my Head

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Omastar is easily one of the best spikers in the whole damn tier and I can readily attest to it's sheer power in spike staking.

It beats a WHOLE slew of leads in UU and should definetely be used more.


Let's check out the matchups shall we?

1. Froslass: A pretty bad matchup. Froslass can taunt you and set up spikes. Granted Surf is a 2HKO but, you've already let Froslass set up 2 layers of spikes.

2. Uxie: I love this one. Your pretty much guaranteed on setting up both Stealth Rocks and one layer of spikes. Psychic only manages around 34%, and staying in is just foolish.

3. Ambipom: Another easy matchup. Seriously, I honestly think Ambipom is on the dying end of the UU. He's just not useful anymore. He can taunt you... that's basically it. Surf manages to deal 64%, while Low kick is incredibly weak due to Omastars sky high defense stat and light weight.

4. Moltres: Ones without HP grass are easily dealt with. You can scout with protect and act accordingly.

5. Alakazam: A pretty bad matchup. Psychic is an easy 2HKO, and he can taunt you.

6.Electrode: Another bad one (but who beats Electrode anyway :P) Use the predicted taunt to switch into an appropriate counter.

7. Omastar: Lucky number 7. Use this time to Set up Stealth Rocks and 3 layers of spikes. The fun really starts from there.

8. Hippotas. Set up the rocks, and Spike and or surf. Easy matchup.

9. Rhyperior also easily beaten. If he DOES run speed EV's (troll) EQ cannot OHKO.

10. Cloyster: Surprisingly easy to deal with. Start by Stealth Rocking (while he spikes) and surf while he rapids spins. You can repeat to process, until he switches as Cloyster isn't going to kill you anytime soon.



It is in my opinion that Omastar is definetely one of the best leads in UU and possibly... dare I say it, THE best lead.
 
It honestly bothers me how people refer to Omastar as a "sucky spiker". I have used it in the past and I can tell for sure it can come on a LOT of pokés (much more than Froslass for instance) and proceed to setup hazards, that he happens to have access to every kind. So yeah, maybe Froslass is a better spiker due to it's spinblocking abilities, but that does not make Omastar sucky at all.

Btw, not wanting to kick up a shitstorm again, but of the three current teams in tour finals, two got there with RD teams (please do not start the quote war and say x haxed y who haxed z; as all I'm putting here are facts).
 
Some people might not agree but the ONLY reason why Froslass is the best spinner and arguably BL is because of her ghost typing. Tons of other spikers can get spikes down, but Froslass won't let you spin right in their faces. Another really nice perk is access to taunt so hitmontop and friends cant use foresight. Also, I'm really starting to side towards rain being broken. In the hands of an experienced player, rain is nearly impossible to stop. They control the momentum the entire game, and smart switches aren't even viable half the time because most rain sweepers can just stat up in your face. I'm still on the fence, but as of now, I'm leaning more towards Damp Rock being BL.
 
Bluewind said:
It honestly bothers me how people refer to Omastar as a "sucky spiker". I have used it in the past and I can tell for sure it can come on a LOT of pokés (much more than Froslass for instance) and proceed to setup hazards, that he happens to have access to every kind. So yeah, maybe Froslass is a better spiker due to it's spinblocking abilities, but that does not make Omastar sucky at all.

Btw, not wanting to kick up a shitstorm again, but of the three current teams in tour finals, two got there with RD teams (please do not start the quote war and say x haxed y who haxed z; as all I'm putting here are facts).
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Lol people who say that Omastar sucks as a spiker haven't used him. Plain and simple. It's amazing defenses allow it to setup on a good amount of physical sweepers. Sure it's typing is awful but it's also a blessing. 4X resistance on fire attacks is fantastic, and he can actually wall some fire types.

No problem. I played SUPER badly during mine so I can't complain about H4x. (Really REALLY bad)


You know what the metagame needs? Roserade.
Scar Roserade can work even BETTER than Venusaur due to it's ability to single handidly check Rain teams. Outspeeding a good sum of the rain dance sweepers. (Omastar, Gorebyss, Luddicolo)

having another Spiker/Toxic Spiker is great and she can check/counter a good sum of pokemon. It's a shame she was moved to OU due to usages. (Which I think is a tier that is too much for her) but she would be a serious welcome in UU.

BTW what the hell was Venusaur used as during the advent of Roserade?
 
What ability do you run on lead Omastar? I would think Swift Swim to help counter rain teams, since crits are fairly uncommon, regardless of how often you bitch about being haxed.
 
Swift Swim is a must. If Rain is present, I can actually deal some good damage with surf, and outspeeding a good portion of the metagame with 292 speed. (Assuming zero speed EV's)
 
I honestly never ran anything outside of Shell Armor. With no investment, Omastar is still outsped by all rain abusers, Electrode, Raikou and list goes on; so I really see no benefits of using Swift Swim over Shell Armor.
 
Bluewind said:
I honestly never ran anything outside of Shell Armor. With no investment, Omastar is still outsped by all rain abusers, Electrode, Raikou and list goes on; so I really see no benefits of using Swift Swim over Shell Armor.
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True. But some of the bog standard Rain users (I've seen Claydol's, Uxie's etc) are outsped. Meh, I just don't see Shell Armor doing anything. (I guess it's a matter of preference)

Anyway, doesn't anyone have anything to say about Roserade? I played UU After it packed up and moved to OU. I need to know about it, (and if anyone would like to counter my points)
 
Flamewheeler said:
Lol nothing. I to miss rosey, but as soon as she comes back, I'm sure there will be more bitching about how strong her lo set is/was.
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That's so sad. And he's the number one pokemon right now. Um doesn't she have dedicated counters though? Her life orb set clearly can't be stronger than Moltres (who admittedly can check Roserade herself)
other than that, she can't touch Registeel at all, and is also incredibly walled by Altaria.

And if people are afraid she might overshadow Venusaur, he can run a powerful SD set and is actually bulky. (Roserade CANNOT take a physical hit)

It's a shame though, people are bent on using it in OU, where it is a rather poor pokemon in my opinion.
 
Guys, sorry to say, but there is a better chance of Mamoswine, Smeargle, and Ninjask of dropping than Roserade, not to mention the ones already discussed (Dusknoir, Hippowdon, Tentacruel, and Heracross).

Personally, I think the tier system should be based more on power than usage, but I guess there would be no changes and then the metagame would be boring. Besides, I still like the tiering system and there is no way it will be changed.
 
What do you guys think is the most capable revenge killer in the tier? I'm looking for one to use on one of my teams (currently testing Primeape).
 
I like Scarf Primeape. Gets Close Combat, Ice Punch, Stone Edge, and most importantly, U-Turn. U-Turn is what separates it from Scarf Hitmonlee, who outclasses it in every other way.

I've started trying out Dragon Dance Crawdaunt. I used DD Whiscash before, but its Attack isn't strong enough and cannot OHKO Venusaur after one DD. Crawdaunt has a much higher Attack with Aerial Ace to hit Venusaur, and only has 5 lower base speed.
 
Thund91 said:
Have you actually used Cloyster and Omastar? It's just as easy (probably easier) to set up Spikes with them. I'm with Bluewind in that the only reason Froslass might be a suspect is because it's the only Spiker who can actually block Rapid Spin attempts. Other then that imo it's inferior to other Spikers.
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Yes, I have. They're not threatening in any way outside of Spikes, whereas Froslass is faster, can actually kill something before it gets hit, and is not as easily forced out. The threat of Destiny Bond or a special attack is enough to keep some of Froslass's enemies at by. Omastar and Cloyster are much slower and are forced out much easier. And if you want to keep those Spikes, you have to run two other Ghosts to make sure you keep them (this was a common technique in the tour battles) where as Froslass IS a Ghost and doesn't have to do anything other than sit there and laugh while she sets her minefield.

I've used Omastar and it's not a bad Spiker, but it's not better than Froslass. Getting 2-3 layers is non-negotiable with her. Many can argue that "it's ONLY better because of blah blah blah" but in reality, it just is. Omastar and Cloyster haven't caused any controversy as of yet because they're quite clearly overshadowed by Froslass, and for good reason.
 
The problem is deciding what exactly power *is*. Pokémon is a team game, so power is always relative to the surrounding pool of available partners. We could raise the OU cutoff a bit, which would achieve the same thing more or less.
 
Lonewolf9196 said:
Guys, sorry to say, but there is a better chance of Mamoswine, Smeargle, and Ninjask of dropping than Roserade, not to mention the ones already discussed (Dusknoir, Hippowdon, Tentacruel, and Heracross).

Personally, I think the tier system should be based more on power than usage, but I guess there would be no changes and then the metagame would be boring. Besides, I still like the tiering system and there is no way it will be changed.
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I actually disagree with this. Tiering system is really good as of now but it has a few bugs. Besides, I hardly think we are the position to talk about such things.

Yeah I remember that discussion. Good times, good times.
 
Even with Crawdaunt higher power, i prefer Whiscash.
Better typing, bulk, speed and STAB.
Immunity to Thunder Wave is nice.

And against any attacking Venusaur, after a DD, Earthquake has chances of a OHKO:

+1 Adamant LO Whiscash against 0/4 Venusaur: 95.7% - 113%

Guaranteed with Stealth Rock.

Well, there's always Bounce to hit grasses (i'm looking at you, Leafeon).


Crawdaunt on the other hand is too slow and has many weaknesses... Whiscash at least has only one weakness, making the DD work a lot easier.
Well, STAB Crunch is nice, and it's Waterfall is really powerful.
 
one argument that i feel is important yet hasn't been mentioned yet is that froslass can simultaneously act as a bulky spiker as well as a suicide spiker. against offensive teams, froslass can chuck one layer of spikes onto the ground (or even two if you use sash) as it gets koed by a fast super effective attack, while it sets up on a lot of bulky stuff as well. on the other hand, something like omastar or cloyster can be easily scared out by a wider range of attackers due to its lower speed, so it might be hard pressed to set up its hazards through the entire match if the opponent has the advantage in lead matchups and plays intelligently. the ability to play froslass suicidally is often important because against some offensive teams it won't get the chance to switch back in in the midgame, which means the only chance to get spikes up is the beginning of the match.

both roserade's life orb set and its spiker set were pretty ridiculous... there are some posts in the uu nomination thread (round 3) that outline it -- i agree with eo's the most. in recent uu it's probably the second hardest pokemon to switch into (yanmega -> roserade -> moltres imo, with the difference between 2 and 3 being pretty small). but lol why are we talking about roserade again -.-
 
Sorry about that LonelyWolf.


Crawdaunt? I don't know, doesn't it seem like a poor man's Feraligatr? The extra attack doesn't hide his weaker stats overall. Feraligatr also Ice punch for Venusaur too.


both roserade's life orb set and its spiker set were pretty ridiculous... there are some posts in the uu nomination thread (round 3) that outline it -- i agree with eo's the most. in recent uu it's probably the second hardest pokemon to switch into (yanmega -> roserade -> moltres imo, with the difference between 2 and 3 being pretty small). but lol why are we talking about roserade again -.-
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It's for me personally. The spiker set being ridiculous? Even more ridiculous than Froslass who has higher speed, better overall bulk, AND can spin block?

I really don't know much about the LO set so I'm going to check that out (thanks)

I mainly asked because I never got to experience a metagame with her.
(She's referenced in A LOT of analysis, and it feels like I'm missing an old friend...)


Edit: I searched for Nomination round 3 but came up short. It goes from 2 to 4. Am I missing something?
 
PK Gaming said:
Crawdaunt? I don't know, doesn't it seem like a poor man's Feraligatr? The extra attack doesn't hide his weaker stats overall. Feraligatr also Ice punch for Venusaur too.
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-_- Why didn't I think of that? Okay, fuck Crawdaunt, let's discuss something else.
 
PK Gaming said:
It's for me personally. The spiker set being ridiculous? Even more ridiculous than Froslass who has higher speed, better overall bulk, AND can spin block?
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Roserade is quite bulky on the special side, and got spikes up easily on things like Milotic, easier than Froslass (at the time, no one put defensive EVs on Lass)and was a key stall member. It also has recovery.
The LO set was honestly just ferocious. It only really got countered by SleepTalk Registeel since it could force out other counters with Sleep Powder (and Sludge Bomb pounded through Altaria with SR). Its a little better than Moltres imo since it required little to no support to be effective (no spinner/ spikes needed to plow through things).
 
What exactly made Roserade one the most broken things to enter UU? I wasn't here for that period and I'm just wondering. On paper it doesn't seem to have much over Venasaur
 
Well you see how great Venusaur is now? Make it faster and a lot stronger, and just that made Roserade near broken. It was also a much better Spiker than it seems on paper, one big thing it has over Venusuar.
 
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