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np: UU - Rain Drops Keep Falling on my Head

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Yeah I've also heard that some leads are also carrying sunny day as a way to counter the oh so many rain dance teams that are out there.

Lol PK Gaming that probably kills everything except Chansey, Flash Fire Pokemon, and really bulky waters like Slowking... just get a counter for those like Dugtrio and you can get around your best counters
 
SJCrew said:
Scyther is not a scouter. It loses 50% just switching in and has way too many weaknesses. Scizor only has one weakness, a number of useful resistances, is stronger, slower, more devensive, and gets by on weakening walls and abusing its boosted STAB priority in order to prevent a good number of OUs from sweeping. Scyther is a revenge killer at best

Even if they both have a Choice Band and STAB U-turn, they don't play anywhere close to the same because their typing, stats, and even movepools are vastly different in key areas.
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I've been experimenting with him and if you can keep SR off the field (not that hard to do) he makes an excellent revenge killer, scouter, pursuiter, and late game cleaner
 
Shnoogle said:
Lol PK Gaming that probably kills everything except Chansey
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It kills Chansey.

Specs Typhlosion Eruption at full health in the Sun vs. standard Chansey: 52.9% - 62.2%

Even better, Specs Typhlosion Fire Blast with Blaze activated in the Sun vs. standard Chansey: 63.2% - 74.4%

FB also stands a good chance of 2HKO'ing Milotic (which, by extension, means that Chansey is just under TWICE as specially bulky as Milotic. Dang.)
 
SJCrew said:
If I can get my free spin to take out that million layers of Spikes everyone thinks is up at all times, then mission accomplished, I'll happily let him die. If you come in on Surf, you're dead, and I'm still free to do whatever I want. If you come in on the revenge, whoop-dee-doo, I just killed your Pokemon, and I'm coming in to set up with another. Dugtrio is still the same one-trick revenge-killing pony it always was.

I'm still not getting what Tentacruel has that Dugtrio really wants to switch in on. Either I get rid of your entry hazards, kill Dugtrio with Ice Beam or Surf, or switch out myself. Dugtrio isn't countering Tentacruel in this lifetime, sorry.
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Why on earth would I switch Dugtrio into Tentacruel (unless I'm predicting Tspikes) when I can just switch to Froslass, set up more Spikes, faint, and take out your Spinner AND Moltres counter.

Good luck switching into Moltres with 3 layers of Spikes. You will literally need it, because the only way you're not losing right then is if Moltres's Fire Blast misses.

And please keep in mind Offense will likely have no room for Tentacruel for obvious reasons, and stall/balance cannot afford to lose a member of their core.

So yea, Tentacruel gets taken out by Dugtrio, that's why Milotic will probably still be used.

M BLADE said:
Yeah, both are very similar.


I'm going to post a quick response:

CB Scizor: slow, bulky scouter with strong priority that works around it's nice typing.
CB Scyther: fast scouter that has strong STAB moves and works around it's speed.

See the bolded part? That's the main job of both.
That's the similarity i'm talking about. And it's Scyther and Scizor main job.
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So are LO Moltres and defensive Lugia the same?

Moltres: Powerful special sweeper that uses Roost to recover HP.

Lugia: Defensive wall that uses Roost to recover HP.

You clearly are focusing on the wrong aspects of each Pokemon's role; it's so easy to find similarities between any two Pokemon, so to actually have a Pokemon be considered "relatively similar" they actually need to function in a similar way. For example, Chansey and Blissey are very similar. Even stuff like DD Feraligatr and DD Gyarados are similar. CB Scizor and CB Scyther have completely different uses. Even if I were to agree with them both being "scouters", it still does not mean they are similar.

That's really all I have to say about this. They are not similar. Well I guess they look similar and start with the letter "S"....
 
SJCrew said:
Scyther is not a scouter. It loses 50% just switching in and has way too many weaknesses. Scizor only has one weakness, a number of useful resistances, is stronger, slower, more devensive, and gets by on weakening walls and abusing its boosted STAB priority in order to prevent a good number of OUs from sweeping. Scyther is a revenge killer at best

Even if they both have a Choice Band and STAB U-turn, they don't play anywhere close to the same because their typing, stats, and even movepools are vastly different in key areas.
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It's not a question of playing. It's a question of job.
Playing of Scyther and Scizor are different.


And come on, if you use CB Scyther, you need a spinner.

I think that way:

Revenge killer: why not use Scyther with 4 attacks and LO? So you won't lock yourself on a attack, and you can U-Turn the hell out for additional damage (or U-Turn straight away).


I would use CB Scyther exactly to scout AND to deal damage when needed, since Scyther is quick. With spin support, of course.

Scyther has lots of weaknesses, but also has lots of resists (who's Venusaur anyway?).

I just have a different mind about things. Maybe it's all the beer...



@ Heysup: you posted all i wanted to say.

"Even if I were to agree with them both being "scouters", it still does not mean they are similar. "


Bam, straight into my thoughts.

Dunno if i'm bad at english or if i can't express myself clearly... but that's all i wanted to say.
 
Heysup said:
Why on earth would I switch Dugtrio into Tentacruel (unless I'm predicting Tspikes) when I can just switch to Froslass, set up more Spikes, faint, and take out your Spinner AND Moltres counter.

Good luck switching into Moltres with 3 layers of Spikes. You will literally need it, because the only way you're not losing right then is if Moltres's Fire Blast misses.

And please keep in mind Offense will likely have no room for Tentacruel for obvious reasons, and stall/balance cannot afford to lose a member of their core.

So yea, Tentacruel gets taken out by Dugtrio, that's why Milotic will probably still be used.
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Now that sounds like a completely different scenario (read: a real match) rather than simply stating Dugtrio auto-kills Tentacruel and leaves Moltres without a counter. I've been reading too many of these Dugtrio-centric arguments as it is and quite frankly, they're all fallacious and tiresome.
 
Running Shed Shell just for Dugtrio is probably not worth it, IMO. Tentacruel really likes Leftovers/Black Sludge to keep him healthy and bulky. Just switch and scout for Dugtrios coming in to eat Tentacruel.
 
Shnoogle said:
I've been noticing a big rise in sunny day teams for some reason... I don't know if that is just my luck facing a few in a row but there are definately more than there used to be.


Also, when do the voting things open up?
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Changing the subject:

Yes, i faced one.

I must say: Porygon 2 is a nightmare for those teams to face. No grass poke outside of Explosion Exeggutor/Shiftry can KO P-2, and P-2 happily paralizes them and stalls with Recover.
And any poke with Flash Fire will be paralized.

P-2 is proving to me it has good uses in this metagame filled with Moltres and Dugtrios around.
 
Heysup said:
Good luck switching into Moltres with 3 layers of Spikes. You will literally need it, because the only way you're not losing right then is if Moltres's Fire Blast misses.
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Not true. LO Timid Moltres deals 27.2% - 32.1%, not even a 2KO with max damage and 3 layers of spikes up, with Fire Blast to 252 HP/ 86 SpD/ 176 Spe Timid Tentacruel, which outspeeds Moltres and in return deals 60.4% - 71.7% back with Surf, a KO after Stealth Rock. Even if Moltres doesnt have SR damage, Tenta will beat it before Moltres does (albeit leaving Tenta very weak). Tentaruel hard counters Moltres with that set (SubRoost ones too).

I agree though that Tenta is Dugtrio food with a smart double switch, or a revenge kill/ switch into Rapid SPin or something.
 
Random Pizzaman said:
Not true. LO Timid Moltres deals 27.2% - 32.1%, not even a 2KO with max damage and 3 layers of spikes up, with Fire Blast to 252 HP/ 86 SpD/ 176 Spe Timid Tentacruel, which outspeeds Moltres and in return deals 60.4% - 71.7% back with Surf, a KO after Stealth Rock. Even if Moltres doesnt have SR damage, Tenta will beat it before Moltres does (albeit leaving Tenta very weak). Tentaruel hard counters Moltres with that set (SubRoost ones too).

I agree though that Tenta is Dugtrio food with a smart double switch, or a revenge kill/ switch into Rapid SPin or something.
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It seems like you misread my post completely.
 
Eh I was more picking on that one sentence. Tenta probably wont be used much on offensive teams (but it could be used as a fast defensive pivot or swords dance or something), but I think it could fill a spot on a balance team, which has the most issues with Moltres. I addressed the Dugtrio thing too, just saying Tenta WILL be able to switch into Moltres and force it out, while Dugtrio cannot switch in from there.
 
Brass said:
How important is rapid spinning in the round? And who in your opinion performs the best
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Very. Especially with Moltres and Froslass.

In my opinion the best Spinner is Donphan because of it's ability to 1-2HKO every Ghost in the metagame.

Random Pizzaman said:
Eh I was more picking on that one sentence. Tenta probably wont be used much on offensive teams (but it could be used as a fast defensive pivot or swords dance or something), but I think it could fill a spot on a balance team, which has the most issues with Moltres. I addressed the Dugtrio thing too, just saying Tenta WILL be able to switch into Moltres and force it out, while Dugtrio cannot switch in from there.
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Umm you didn't really address anything that I said at all actually...this is why I assumed you misread it.

Heysup said:
Why on earth would I switch Dugtrio into Tentacruel (unless I'm predicting Tspikes) when I can just switch to Froslass, set up more Spikes, faint, and take out your Spinner AND Moltres counter.

Good luck switching into Moltres with 3 layers of Spikes. You will literally need it, because the only way you're not losing right then is if Moltres's Fire Blast misses.
Click to expand...

You're talking about Tentacruel switching into Moltres...why? That has literally nothing to do with what I said.
 
Brass said:
How important is rapid spinning in the round? And who in your opinion performs the best
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Unless your team is heavy on offense and doesn't want to slow its momentum by rapid spinning, a rapid spinner is a MUST for any team

Hitmontop has always been my favorite because of its great bulk, intimidate, an insanely powerful STAB move in close combat, and foresight to spin in those ghost's faces

Hopefully froslass will be voted BL this round, making running a rapid spinner on every team a little less needed.
 
SPinning is practically necessary on balance and stall, but HO can go without it (i dont have a spinner and it really doesnt have an effect). And imo Blastoise is the best because he can take on all the ghosts (bar Rotom) and outlast them since it doesnt fear a burn.
 
HO shouldn't have a spinner unless i) You know what you are doing and/or ii) The Spinner is able to sweep a team anyway (Like Hitmonlee). Spinning gives you opponent back too much momentum (1 turn is a lot in the terms of an offensive team).
 
Shnoogle said:
Unless your team is heavy on offense and doesn't want to slow its momentum by rapid spinning, a rapid spinner is a MUST for any team
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This is the reason I find playing even Balance as offensively as possible is necessary. If you allow Froslass to set up on you, its too easy for the opponent to keep you on your toes and forcing you to switch into more and more residual damage. Keep the pressure on and Spikes really aren't even that noticeable.

But, like everyone said, Blastoise makes a great spinner. If I had to run one, it would be him.
 
Hmmm, can we open the nominations thread already? I think it would be more efficient if we opened it in the last few days of testing, so that by the time the testing is done, give or take a day or two, we know the suspects and can get in paras faster. Just an idea.

Of course, I just want to get rid of FUCKlass as fast as possible, so...
 
Yeah it would be beneficial to open the thread now to make the paragraphs easier and also is anybody else finding these upper reqs impossible to make?
 
Upper reqs are a bitch, yeh. I'm hovering around 1690 in terms of rating at the moment, only getting there once and then tilting and dropping back down to about 1660. Here's a suggestion for next time: You can keep the upper requirement ratings (1775/45), but also have a bit more leeway in that if you get two or three alts up to the lower requirement (1600/55), you also fill the upper requirement (I mean frankly, if you get those alts up there, it shows you've played more than enough).
 
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