Contradiction much, you say most Tyranitar's run Choice Scarfs? you couldn't be more wrong, i've battled several tyranitars and most of the ones I fight use life orbs or the steel reduction damage berry.
Semantic's argument.
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Salamence Theorymonning
- Thread starter SJCrew
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Contradiction much, you say most Tyranitar's run Choice Scarfs? you couldn't be more wrong, i've battled several tyranitars and most of the ones I fight use life orbs or the steel reduction damage berry.
Semantic's argument.
This is exactly the problem. I'm not gonna argue definitions of Ubers here, we all know it's intended as a ban-list, but every time you ban something there, you shake up the metagame so hard that other stuff rises to the top and appears 'broken'.
Then you end up moving stuff that isn't really too good for OU into the Ubers just because there's nothing LEFT in OU that's on a comparable power level. Sooner or later, you just have to accept that there'll always be a 'most broken' in any tier. Banning just leads the way for another. One you might not be able to deal with.
Your basically calling yourself a idiot because A Scarf set scenario isn't a "absolute" scneraio either.
We will deal with it at the time and at this time we are not ready to accept broken pokes in ou!
Please stop being so ignorant.
Aprils Shoddy Usage:
Tyranitar | Usage | 210988 | 21.5 |
| Tyranitar | Ability | Sand Stream | 100.0 |
| Tyranitar | Item | Choice Scarf | 37.8 |
| Tyranitar | Item | Leftovers | 17.7 |
| Tyranitar | Item | Babiri Berry | 10.1 |
| Tyranitar | Item | Other (6) | < 9.2
Less than 9.2% use life orb.
Latias can revenge kill or force it out at best. It is not a counter.
I don't see anyone saying that.
Also, I need to ask a question, you guys keep saying Latias was the mence counter...Even though I agree with Latias's ban, I just don't see how latias can counter a mence like you guys make him seem...Can somebody show me?
Experience != facts. The April stats confirm that Scarf Tyranitar was standard last month, and I don't think Latias's banning is soon enough to make that change.
S.T.A.R.S.: Latias isn't a 'mence counter, but it's a good check. Scarf Latias can revenge a once-Dragon Danced Salamence, and Timid Latias with max Speed can revenge a mixed or unboosted Salamence. It can also come in on Fire Blast and Earthquake, though it has to be wary of coming in on Draco Meteor, Dragon Dance, or Dragon Claw/Outrage.
I don't believe this is true. Even if it was true, that doesn't mean Salamence isn't too broken for OU. While it's pretty much inconceivable that OU would ever be perfectly balanced, and while there will always be a best Pokémon, OU still has potential to be balanced. I reference the FUK DRAGON tournament metagame, which was considerably more balanced and successfully diverse than the Latias/Salamence ladder we've been playing. Sure, one day, maybe in 4th or 5th gen, or maybe never, we'll reach equilibrium. There will still be Pokémon that dominate. But they have to go beyond that to be broken, and Salamence and Latias did that.
Latias doesnt counter mence. Nothing does. But by latias being faster it can revenge kill mix mence with near max spead, and can revenge kill dd mence if it has its own choice scarf. Latias was a check, and one of the few viable choice scarfers to outspeed dd mence. Also, if you dont understand, why are you even arguing :0
Edit-Damn got beat
Alright, then why did you ban latias first...Instead of mence? The way your guys make it seem that mence is a GODLY OU and can't be countered by anything EVER.
Except I don't fight on shoddy, I fight with my DS. Still the fact your bringing data into this further proves you people deal in absolute way too much for your own good.
Latias was made a suspect before Salamence. Latias was a suspect in the first place, being dragged down to OU; now we've finally decided on its tiering (Ubers) and are ready to examine Salamence.
Gairyuki - we use Shoddy Battle for a number of reasons. Our tiers are based on our Shoddy Battle experiences. And stats allow us to quantify our arguments. *shrug*
Gairyuki - we use Shoddy Battle for a number of reasons. Our tiers are based on our Shoddy Battle experiences. And stats allow us to quantify our arguments. *shrug*
(I lurk here a lot without posting much, but this thread has me interested)
I've been waiting to see a Salamence test for a long time. To be honest, the "everyone is just now realizing that he's too good for OU" argument doesn't hold any ground; the Suspect test process has just had other things going on.
I don't think he's absolutely horrible to face, nor do I believe that he'll always take down at least one of your pokes just to figure out which set he's running. But I do want to see him get the boot. I don't like having to give a Choice Scarf to something that's already really fast for no reason other than to revenge-kill Dragon Dance Salamence, in the event that he shows up.
The Ice Shard argument is also stupid; both Mamoswine and Weavile are forced to Ice Shard against a +1 Salamence or their team gets swept. Since Ice Shard is the obvious move, a switch to Scizor or Jirachi ruins the Ice Sharders day. If you (Mamo or Weavile) predict the switch to a Steel-type and Earthquake or Low Kick, you risk having the Salamence player call your bluff and sweep you, anyway.
And that's just revenge-killing. Switching in is another matter entirely. He's too unpredictable and too damn fast.
Everything about Salamence is a gamble, and I don't like it.
Well it pretty much cannot be countered by any viable pokemon in OU, without wasting a team slot on some otherwise worthless gimmick like skill-link cloyster in the days of Garchomp. And mence's usage certainly doesn't warrant such gimmicks.
As for your original question, the admins who run the tiering obviously thought dealing with Latias was more important, I don't know the details.
Meh, it just seems to me that you guys are just putting him in perfect scenarios. Like I said before, any pokemon in a good scenario is going to shine brightly. Also, you say Mence is too Unpredictable, the ENTIRE GAME OF POKEMON is unpredictable. The reason that the game the might seem predictable is because most of the trainers like to come to this site, and copy the exact move set. ANY pokemon can be just as unpredictable as mence, and if put in the right scenario will shine.
WRONG. Other pokes like lucario and infernape can beat their counters by using weird sets. Luke can ice punch gliscor, ape can eq tentacreul, etc. But by doing so they fail against something else. Mence can beat the dd counter by using the mix set and the mix counters are beaten by the dd set. Both sets fair extremely well in the metagame and both have perfect coverage. It is literaly a coin toss as to witch set you are facing and a wrong guess can cost you the game.
Yo guys keep saying Gimmicks...When did weavile become A gimmick Pokemon? Weaviles Base Speed is Faster Then Mence, Can Easily 0HKO mence, Normally Runs Ice Shard, Last time I check, Priority moves aren't gimmicks and are actually useful in times like DD mence, and normally runs a Focus sash, if the oppnent didn't set up a entry hazard then He is good to go. If you guys can put perfect scnerios for mence, why don't you put if for other pokemon in the OU amd ban them too?
Then whats the point of making him OU then???? He is just OU to make him look cool?
what kind of bullshit weed are we smoking to even consider testing salamence.........................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................
I'll bite. Weavile revenge kills Salamence. Meaning he has already killed 1 (or more) pokemon on your team. Weavile is largely useless due to it's unfortunate typing, weak to Steel, rock, fighting, fire, so better pursuit users are found in T-tar or even Metagross. Ice Shard would force the Salamence user to switch to a Steel (or other defensive/resistant typing) and put you on the back foot. Sure Salamence would be 25% weaker due to the omnipresent SR it'll probably still be alive. So stop bringing up Weavile.
No, Weavile is OU because it is used enough to be placed in the OU tier. Do some research before making a serious argument about how tiering works.
I'd like to ask you guys something - what does Salamence do that justifies it being Uber, but not Dragonite?
Now, let's see. The Speed makes a difference I guess - but Dragonite's Mixed and Bulky Dragon Dancer sets are as good as, if not better than, those of Salamence. Sure Mence does the offensive DD way better, but I think we can agree that offensive DD is easier to kill than other Salamence sets.
And, before you go "INTIMIDATE" - Intimidate only works on the switch in. If someone like Jirachi or Scizor comes in to revenge, Intimidate isn't helping you there.
Based on these factors, I believe that Salamence is OU. Sure, the bulky dancer is hard to kill, especially if Scizor is your designated check, but Dragonite's bulky dancer is just as good.
Please tell me if I'm wrong, or if I'm missing something here. Thanks.
Now, let's see. The Speed makes a difference I guess - but Dragonite's Mixed and Bulky Dragon Dancer sets are as good as, if not better than, those of Salamence. Sure Mence does the offensive DD way better, but I think we can agree that offensive DD is easier to kill than other Salamence sets.
And, before you go "INTIMIDATE" - Intimidate only works on the switch in. If someone like Jirachi or Scizor comes in to revenge, Intimidate isn't helping you there.
Based on these factors, I believe that Salamence is OU. Sure, the bulky dancer is hard to kill, especially if Scizor is your designated check, but Dragonite's bulky dancer is just as good.
Please tell me if I'm wrong, or if I'm missing something here. Thanks.
Weavile is a gimmick because he has horrible defences, is weak to sr, very few resistances, low base power attack, and cant beat steals. The only reason one would use weavile is to revenge kill a salamence. Like someone else said if you have to slap an ice shard user on your team just to deal with mence he is uber.
Im not even getting into the perfect senario thing again ill let someone else handle it.
Edit-100th post!
I know this question might be getting off track with the mence thing, but can somebody explain to me what makes a pokemon OU? I always thought OU pokemon are OU because they do there job the best. Mence is a Sweeper, and he does his job the best. Blissey is a tank, and she does her job the best. If weavile isn't a good Sweeper...Then whats the point of making him OU?
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