My main problem with this is you can still like the old Pokemon. They aren't going anywhere, and they aren't ANY less viable than before. Electabuzz gaining an evolution didn't make it any less viable, or change its design whatsoever. However, some people love Electivire, and it contributed something to competitive Pokemon. There's no rational reason to be against an evolution.
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Pokemon Black & White, aka Gen 5. Coming to Japan in Fall 2010.
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My main problem with this is you can still like the old Pokemon. They aren't going anywhere, and they aren't ANY less viable than before. Electabuzz gaining an evolution didn't make it any less viable, or change its design whatsoever. However, some people love Electivire, and it contributed something to competitive Pokemon. There's no rational reason to be against an evolution.
That's a bit untrue... How would you feel if a game studios for your favorite franchise suddenly crapped 12 terrible sequels? Sure you don't have to play them but they soil the good name of it, so to speak.
We just don't like tinkering with our childhoods very much; I wouldn't want 10 new Blastoises evolutions with cannons everywhere
Oh and haters gonna hate the new Pokemen, I think they look great and are a very nice [admittedly digimonesque] new direction for the designs, except for the furry of course.
Well, after a pokemon evolved you can't really use it in competitive play anymore... Okay, yes, you actually could but it would be stupid to use Porygon1 when it has evolution, even if you were an absolute fan of it. And i dont see the need to evolve a cute/cool looking pokemon into an ugly newer form just to give it better stats. Hell, make a whole new species! One example I have is Misdreavus. In GSC, it was one of my favorite pokemon, so cool and mysterious, and very interesting with Mean Look / Perish Song. Now they evolved it into a pseudo-witch which just sucks, even more when you look at the fact that it's stats are basically the same as Misdreavus, just higher : it doesnt bring anything more.... In this case, evolutions are both pointless and annoying.
The Pokemon you mentioned were never good in competitive play in the first place. Porygon's stats are just unusable, and Misdreavus isn't great either. Would you use Misdreavus as anything but a gimmick in UU if Mismagius didn't exist? Probably not. It's slow and doesn't have much power, even for UU. Hell, the only thing Misdreavus was useful for even back in G/S was Mean Look/Perish Song.
Plus, I like Mismagius :P
Can't wait for this
lol course they didn't.
The only Pokemon that got an evo that I could still see as being competetive is Magneton. It's still a good Pokemon to try and trap Skarmory and Bronzong but it's NU because Dugtrio can trap the grounded Steels in UU just as well, if not better, and can trap other grounded Pokemon like Chansey as well. Porygon2 is another Pokemon that got an evo and can be competetive, but it has a completely different role than Porygon-Z anyway. The other Pokemon that got them aren't useful competetively and wouldn't be used even if they didn't get their evos. I agree that some of the evo designs aren't that good but that really doesn't mean their prevos would be any more viable without them.
Edit: So anyway, who else wants to see a Water/Poison platypus?
Edit: So anyway, who else wants to see a Water/Poison platypus?
no, its actually the most pure truth possible. a pokemon dont become less viable by winning a more powerful evolution, it just that we get something that work better then him.
if you want to use a old pokemon instead of its evolution then just fucking use, he never lost anything, its movepool and stats are the same so why the fact it won a evolution would make not worth using?
haters always hate new generation pokemons because they are not simple(look like digimons who actually get some details on it, compare porygon1 to wargreymon btw) as they used to be. look at metagross or Lucario for example:they actually are more then just a super computer and bibepal jackal. so haters start hating.
Dusclops was OU before Dusknoir came around :p
i would guess it still would be if not for Noir.
i would guess it still would be if not for Noir.
Dusclops was only OU in Adv because it was the only remotely bulky Ghost (and thus, the only real candidate for blocking Rapid Spin). In DP, we got Spiritomb (and Mismagius) and Rotom-A in Platinum. Dusclops's low Atk would have pushed atleast into UU, even witout Dusknoir around.
but that is the point, duscops never became any less viable, we just got better options. we can still use duscops if we want and get almost the same results we used to get in ADV:a spin blocker and check for some physical treats.
in the end, its rare for a pokemon to become less viable, we just get better options(ok the loss of physical shadow ball sucks but you get my point).
in the end, its rare for a pokemon to become less viable, we just get better options(ok the loss of physical shadow ball sucks but you get my point).
YES
I'm sentimental toward Poison and Water, and I'm sentimental toward the noble platypus. And since platypuses are burrowing creatures, an ability which would lessen the power of Ground attacks would be perfectly in order. And it would get Egg Bomb to boot. :P
Its not that because Dusknoir came that Dusclops went down in tiers , it's the 100 or so pokemon that were introduced in Gen IV that changed dusclops and some other pokes down in tiers.
And I dont think its just because its "evolved" form....I do believe some pokemon can do way better than their evolved forms....and again its all based on the usage+statistics.
You know, that dragon thing looks a lot like a Phrynocephalus mystaceus a type of toadhead agame. See for yourself:how the FUCK does almost everyone see the dragon thing on here:
as a bug type
it doesn't look slightly insect like in my eyes and absolutely not mantis like
Except the fact that it has better stats in almost every stat.
Dusclops didn't become less viable like Lucalibur said, just that Dusknoir is a more viable option.
I see the similiarity, much more so than similarity to any "mantis". In fact, they look extremely similar when you consider that Pokemon are always *inspired* by creatures, rather than directly mirror creatures: you can see how that lizard's frills could be interpreted as the axehead we see on the Pokemon!
The more I read this the more confused I become. Especially since you can't use Dusknoir in UU at all... I'm assuming you got the names switched around or something?
They're talking about that there is no reason to use Dusclops in Ou. It should only be used in UU.
So in other words, my interpretation is correct and the names are just in the wrong order. If you read it as it stands now, it says "There is no reason to use Dusknoir over Duskclops" which implies that Noir is weaker than Clops and should only be used in UU.
Anyway, the whole point of this was that when a Pokemon receives an evolution, it's prevoius form, even if still viable, falls off the charts. I'd say a good example from this past generation is Magneton, it was popular enough in Gen III OU, but now after Magnezone showed up, Magneton is rarely seen even in UU. Magneton is a particularly good example because it's higher speed is a real asset over its new evolution.
I realize that Magnezone is better in every other way, but that's not really the point. The point is that if a Pokemon is relatively powerful and sees some competitive use, and then gains a stronger evolution, the previous form seems to be completely forgotten even in lower tiers.
Magneton really isn't a good example. The Adv Skarmory page says this:
While DP did give it Magnet Rise to allow it trap other Steels like Bronzong and Metagross and the rise is Scozor would certainly help it, it can't trap Steels in UU very effectively. Steelix should always be carrying Earthquake and usually has Roar as well, so even if you Magnet Rise, it will force you out. IIRC, Steelix isn't 2HKO'd by non Specs HP Fire either so it could still fire off an attack before going down. Registeel usually has Earthquake and Thunder Wave which would make Magneton need to choose between using Magnet Rise or Substitute or risk getting taken out or crippled (and I think Registeel can Thunderbolts just fine as well).
So the point is, that Magneton can't do its job effectively in UU because the things it's trying to trap can actually do something back and Dugtrio can trap the grounded Steels there just as effectively. Magneton would probably OU if Magnezone wasn't around, but it would really only be used to trap Skarmory and Scizor.
While DP did give it Magnet Rise to allow it trap other Steels like Bronzong and Metagross and the rise is Scozor would certainly help it, it can't trap Steels in UU very effectively. Steelix should always be carrying Earthquake and usually has Roar as well, so even if you Magnet Rise, it will force you out. IIRC, Steelix isn't 2HKO'd by non Specs HP Fire either so it could still fire off an attack before going down. Registeel usually has Earthquake and Thunder Wave which would make Magneton need to choose between using Magnet Rise or Substitute or risk getting taken out or crippled (and I think Registeel can Thunderbolts just fine as well).
So the point is, that Magneton can't do its job effectively in UU because the things it's trying to trap can actually do something back and Dugtrio can trap the grounded Steels there just as effectively. Magneton would probably OU if Magnezone wasn't around, but it would really only be used to trap Skarmory and Scizor.
Even though i agree with you in the general idea of your post, magneton is a poor example, the reason that is less viable is the UU/NU tier is simply because there are not that many steel types available competitively to trap and KO and the ones there, are better off just "dugtrioed" cause are grounded.
As a matter of fact dugtrio is the superior option cause it covers others random things like chansey and etc.
Edit: beaten by DDRMaster lol, yup pretty much the same that the post above.
Greetings everyone! AH YES! about 9 more new pokemon revealed. there is a new coffin looking pokemon that I hope is the stage 1 evolution of Spiritomb!( Meh he he, that would be brutal, considering no weakness type!) Looks like an alternate armaldo has joined the battle! and last, has Aridos(the pink spider pokemon) finally evolved into that spider looking pokemon we see, if so, It's type should be Bug/Dark and the name should be UMBRULA (latin base umbra meaning dark and Tyrantula spider). By the way people..... 3 Vs. 3 Pokemon BATTLING! I've seen the game play footage of it, and it looks WILD!
Now, opinions are such, of course. But I've never seen so much fail in one post. Mind reading the previous pages?
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