Lanturn (OU Analysis)

Both of the sets are very usable-I've been using the Agility set for a while.

Really great coverage,and it's power is pretty surprising,the Agility set can get walled by some Pokemon due to a lack of power,but it really shines against teams that don't have any strong special sponges.

Doesn't mean much,but both sets definitely get a thumbs up from me and work very,very well IMO.

Example of a Lanturn coming in on a Starmie and wrecking from there,the guy's team was pretty fragile I admit but there are so many Pokemon that can't really touch Lanturn because of it's typing.
Rules: Ladder Match, Sleep Clause, Freeze Clause, OHKO Clause, Evasion Clause, Species Clause, Strict Damage Clause
Wind2008 sent out Marie (lvl 100 Azelf).
hatsunemiku sent out Azelf (lvl 100 Azelf).
Azelf used Stealth Rock.
Pointed stones float in the air around the foe's team!
Azelf used Taunt.
Marie fell for the taunt!
---
Azelf used Stealth Rock.
Pointed stones float in the air around the foe's team!
Azelf used Fire Blast.
Azelf lost 68% of its health.
---
Azelf used Explosion.
A critical hit!
Azelf lost 100% of its health.
Azelf hung on using its Focus Sash!
hatsunemiku's Azelf fainted.
Azelf used Fire Blast.
But there was no target!
---
hatsunemiku switched in Starmie (lvl 100 Starmie).
Pointed stones dug into Starmie.
Starmie lost 12% of its health.
hatsunemiku switched in Heatran (lvl 100 Heatran ?).
Pointed stones dug into Heatran.
Heatran lost 12% of its health.
Azelf used Explosion.
It's not very effective...
Heatran lost 72% of its health.
Wind2008's Marie fainted.
---
Wind2008 switched in Infernape (lvl 100 Infernape ?).
Pointed stones dug into Infernape.
Infernape lost 12% of its health.
Infernape used Mach Punch.
It's super effective!
Heatran lost 15% of its health.
hatsunemiku's Heatran fainted.
Infernape lost 10% of its health.
---
hatsunemiku switched in Starmie (lvl 100 Starmie).
Pointed stones dug into Starmie.
Starmie lost 12% of its health.
Wind2008 switched in Lanturn (lvl 100 Lanturn ?).
Pointed stones dug into Lanturn.
Lanturn lost 12% of its health.
Starmie used Thunderbolt.
Lanturn's Volt Absorb absorbed damage!
Lanturn restored 13% of its health.
---
hatsunemiku switched in Flygon (lvl 100 Flygon ?).
Pointed stones dug into Flygon.
Flygon lost 6% of its health.
Lanturn used Agility.
Lanturn's speed was sharply raised.
---
Lanturn used Ice Beam.
It's super effective!
Flygon lost 94% of its health.
hatsunemiku's Flygon fainted.
Lanturn lost 10% of its health.
---
hatsunemiku switched in Lucario (lvl 100 Lucario ?).
Pointed stones dug into Lucario.
Lucario lost 3% of its health.
Lanturn used Hydro Pump.
Lucario lost 97% of its health.
hatsunemiku's Lucario fainted.
Lanturn lost 10% of its health.
---
hatsunemiku: YAY\
hatsunemiku switched in Scizor (lvl 100 Scizor ?).
Pointed stones dug into Scizor.
Scizor lost 12% of its health.
Lanturn used Hydro Pump.
Scizor lost 88% of its health.
hatsunemiku's Scizor fainted.
Lanturn lost 10% of its health.
---
hatsunemiku switched in Starmie (lvl 100 Starmie).
Pointed stones dug into Starmie.
Starmie lost 12% of its health.
Lanturn used Thunderbolt.
It's super effective!
Starmie lost 63% of its health.
hatsunemiku's Starmie fainted.
Wind2008 wins!
hatsunemiku has left the room.
My Lanturn had a Timid nature and a 252/252/4 spread for refrence.

I realize a single log doesn't do much since any Pokemon can sweep given the right conditions,but the log I posted was just a good example of how Agility Lanturn should be used.


Getting an Agility off is very easy-definitely rivals Suicune and similar bulky water sweepers,only shaky thing about it is Hydro Pump's accuracy,Lanturn can't afford to use Surf and lose the power so you have to rely on Pump hitting quite often.


Just repeating things already said and posting a log really,but I definitely think this deserves a spot in the analysis for what my opinion is worth.
 
[OVERVIEW]
<h4>OU</h4>
<p>Despite the many Water- and Electric-types in OU, Lanturn fills a niche in the OU metagame that no other Pokemon can. Resistances to some of the most common special attacks, a 4x resistance to Steel, and fantastic coverage with his two STABs and Ice Beam are all very appealing. Immunity to Thunder Wave and other Electric attacks is just the icing on the cake. Lanturn is the closest thing you will find to a 100% counter to Life Orb Starmie and Substitute/Thunder Wave Jirachi, both of whom run rampant in today's metagame. If you're looking for a Pokemon to reliably take on some of OU's top threats and open the floor for a Salamence, Infernape, Heatan, or Gyarados sweep of your own, give Lanturn a splash!</p>

[SET]
name: OU SubCharge
move 1: Substitute
move 2: Charge Beam
move 3: Hydro Pump / Surf
move 4: Ice Beam
item: Leftovers
ability: Volt Absorb
nature: Modest
evs: 52 HP / 252 SpA / 148 SpD / 56 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>Lanturn's unique typing and valuable ability have always given him plenty of opportunities to switch in in the OU metagame. However, his mediocre Special Attack, Speed, and ability to lure Blissey in without fail have always relegated Lanturn to using gimmick parafusion sets. This set attempts to fix that through Substitute and Charge Beam, turning Lanturn into a surprisingly dangerous mid-game Pokemon, capable of putting massive dents into the opponent's team.</p>

<p>Substitute will usually be the first move you use. Many of the Pokemon Lanturn easily comes in on are likely to switch out, and Substitute allows you to safely pick your next move. It also blocks status moves from Blissey and Vaporeon who often think they can stall Lanturn to death with Toxic. After Substitute, your next move is dictated by whoever switches in. Hydro Pump deals over 50% to most Machamp, Metagross, Scizor, Tyranitar, and Jirachi. Ice Beam is for Dragons, Gliscor, and Breloom. If you're met with bulkier Pokemon like Blissey, Zapdos, or Celebi, Charge Beam away and then hit them with Hydro Pump or Ice Beam when you're ready.</p>

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

<p>The lack of Thunderbolt may be surprising at first glance, but Charge Beam is really the better move for this set. Unlike other Electrics, Lanturn's Water STAB allows him to effectively run only Hydro Pump or Surf as his powerful STAB attack. The most common offensive switch-ins to Lanturn are hit equally hard by Surf as they are by Thunderbolt (Tyranitar actually being hit harder by Surf). Against bulky Waters where an Electric attack is needed, Charge Beam is more than enough; most bulky Waters can't touch Lanturn in the first place, so you are free to chip away at their health and stat up. Charge Beam also allows Lanturn to beat many Pokemon who would usually use an instant recovery move in his face repeatedly. Hydro Pump is recommended over Surf on this set for the OHKO on Heatran and the 2HKO on the aforementioned Pokemon. Surf also ruins any shot at taking Blissey down, something that can usually be done with with Hydro Pump and a couple of Charge Beams. Surf is still an option for more conservative players, but Lanturn really needs all the power he can get for this set to be effective.</p>

<p>52 HP EVs let you make 101 HP Substitutes, which together with Leftovers recovery and Charge Beam/Hydro Pump will more often than not let you take down Seismic Toss Blissey. The Speed EVs put you at 184 Speed, one point ahead of the standard Vaporeon. This is important as it allows you to set up on Vaporeon before he can Toxic you. The investment also helps against the occasional Scizor, Machamp, Tyranitar, or Metagross with a minimal investment in Speed. Special Attack is maxed to cause as much damage as possible with Lanturn's fantastic coverage. The rest is dumped in Special Defense, as Lanturn's resistances to common special attacks help his survivability and ability to switch in in the long run. With the above spread, Grass Knot (which hits for 40 Base Power) from a Defensive Celebi has a 50% chance to not even to break Lanturn's Substitute.</p>

<p>Depending on your opponent's team and playstyle, this Lanturn usually ends up being used in one of two ways: as a hit-and-run Pokemon, or as a setup sweeper. You will find opportunities to switch Lanturn in against the majority of OU teams, whether it be into a bulky Water or into choiced Electric- or Steel-type attacks (don't forget Lanturn's 4x Steel resistance). Lanturn's ability to easily force switches gives many opportunities to use Substitute, which prepares you for either playing style depending on your opponent's answer to Lanturn. If your opponent relies on bulky Pokemon like Machamp, Swampert, and Metagross to check Lanturn, using Lanturn as a hit-and-run attacker is recommended. Against stall teams using Charge Beam is preferred, but make sure you keep Lanturn away from Toxic spikes. One-on-one against Blissey, Lanturn will usually come out on top with 20-30% health left, a number of Charge Beam boosts and possibly a Substitute up; this means Lanturn will often be left in a position to take a second Pokemon down. Charge Beaming (note stating = gerund of state. Statting isn’t a word unfortunately) up against Calm Mind sweepers however, most notably Suicune and Jirachi, is more dangerous and should generally not be resorted to. Lanturn will need a critical hit to beat such opponents, but considering Suicune and Jirachi will need several Calm Minds to pose a threat to Lanturn, you stand a good chance of getting one with Charge Beam.</p>

<p>Gyarados partners wonderfully with Lanturn, as the former often lures bulky Waters and Electric attacks, both of which Lanturn loves to take on. Mixmence also works well with Lanturn, not only because he easily takes Ground-, and Grass-type attacks aimed at Lanturn, but because Lanturn sets up very easily on the most common Mixmence checks: bulky waters and CB Bullet Punch Scizor. If you want to go for a more defensive teammate, Skarmory is a great candidate; the two cover each others' weaknesses perfectly. Toxic Spikes can also help Lanturn when Charge Beaming against bulkier Pokemon like Celebi and Blissey, providing insurance against such threats in the event that Charge Beam misses or doesn't raise your Special Attack. They also help against Swampert, turning Hydro Pump into a 2HKO.</p>

[COUNTERS]
<h4>OU</h4>
<p>Without a Substitute up on the SubCharge set, most of OU's physical threats can easily force Lanturn out, as they will usually be faster than Lanturn. Be careful switching such Pokemon into Lanturn though, as between Lanturn's offensive coverage and the possibility of having a Substitute up, Lanturn can severely weaken many of OU's top physical threats. For this reason Flygon with U-turn makes a particularly good counter to SubCharge Lanturn, as he can remove Lanturn's Substitute and switch to an appropriate counter in the same turn. When using the Parafusion set, Lanturn becomes a lot harder to take down in one blow, especially if the opponent is not immune to Thunder Wave. For this reason Ground-type Pokemon with a powerful Earthquake are strongly recommended to effectively deal with this set.</p>

<p>On the special side, countering Lanturn is a lot harder. Choice Scarf Heatran's Earth Power is a 2HKO against the SubCharge set, but keep in mind that Hydro Pump will OHKO. Gengar is not usually a safe bet, but can always work in a pinch: Shadow Ball is a 3HKO if he is running Life Orb, and Lanturn cannot OHKO Gengar with Hydro Pump. He can always resort to Hypnosis or Explosion though, so watch out for those moves. Gengar needs Substitute to deal with the Parafusion set, as he hates paralysis. Electrics with HP Grass pose a decent threat to SubCharge Lanturn, especially if they catch Lanturn on the switch-in, but note that Hydro Pump usually puts the advantage in Lanturn's court in the event of such match-ups. Defensive Rotom-A can incapacitate Lanturn with Will-O-Wisp, but it should not stick around as Shadow Ball only does 30% while Hydro Pump is a 2HKO. Rotom-C works particularly well with its access to Leaf Storm however. Jolteon with HP Grass is easily one of the best counters to the Parafusion set, since he is immune to Thunder Wave, and Lanturn's Ice Beam won't hit Jolteon for much damage.</p>

<p>As far as defensive Pokemon go, Swampert deserves special mention as the only bulky water capable of handling Lanturn: Hydro Pump is only a 3HKO, while Earthquake will scare Lanturn away. Note that Swampert cannot switch repeatedly into Lanturn however, as he will quickly succumb to Hydro Pump. Celebi with Leaf Storm also poses a threat to Lanturn, as it is not even 2HKOed by Ice Beam. Grass Knot is a laughing matter for Lanturn though, as it hits for 40 Base Power. Blissey can handle Lanturn if she comes in when Lanturn is low on health, but be wary of a Charge Beam sweep if she comes in on a Lanturn with over 70% health or a substitute.</p>

<p>Residual damage in the form of entry hazards, Sand Stream damage, and status conditions are perhaps the most effective way to wear Lanturn down. Lanturn's ability to switch in on so much of the OU metagame is one of the huge draws to using him. Raising the penalty for switching quickly diminishes Lanturn's utility, especially against defensive teams where switching is common. Toxic Spikes are particularly effective at taking out Lanturn, as they remove any chance Lanturn has of sweeping or using parafusion.</p>
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GP Check 1/2

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2 GP checks is the minimum required for your analysis to be uploaded. If you want to speed up the process, PMing another GPer might help. If you add an Agility set and have it passed by Quality control, then PM and I'll check it.


I have also grammar-checked the on-site parafusion set to meet some of the new guidelines, but more needs to be done. Note that it is not in the right format having been copied directly off-site:
If you're looking to use Lanturn in the land of OU, this set is the way to go. (needs a new introductory sentence) "Parafusion" is a strategy that entails inducing both paralysis and confusion on the opponent. This means that the opponent will only be able to attack on 5 turns out of 8. This strategy is quite easy to pull off with Lanturn's unique set of resistances, allowing him to come in several times during the match and cripple the opponent. The best way to utilize the combination is to paralyze first and to then use Confuse Ray. This way, if Lanturn successfully paralyzes the opponent, he is guaranteed to get a Confuse Ray off as well. However, this is obviously not always possible due to the presence of Ground-types, Jolteon, and opposing Lanturn, so it is possible to use Confuse Ray first as well.

Thunderbolt and Ice Beam are the recommended attacking moves because of their near-flawless coverage, which helps Lanturn compensate for his below-average Special Attack stat. Discharge is an option over Thunderbolt for an extrachance at paralysis; however, it isn't the recommended choice because Thunder Wave is already on the set, and being able to control what you paralyze is very important. For example, you don't want to accidentally paralyze something you intended to put to sleep with a different Pokemon. In addition, Thunderbolt allows Lanturn an 87% chance to OHKO a min/min Gyarados even if Stealth Rock is not up, while Discharge has no chance without Stealth Rock. Discharge also cannot guarantee an OHKO on BulkyGyara even if Stealth Rock is up, while Thunderbolt can. Ice Beam is needed so that Lanturn can beat Celebi, Gliscor, and Zapdos one-on-one while also netting OHKOs on the 4x weak Dragons, provided Stealth Rock is up. Surf is a possibility in the last slot if you find that Lanturn has a lot of trouble with Magnezone or Mamoswine, but it's less useful than Ice Beam due to the poor coverage.

The EV spread is tailored for survival in the OU metagame. The biggest difference between it and the spreads of the UU sets is the large number of Defense EVs. Defense EVs are an absolute necessity for Lanturn's survival in OU without resorting to Substitute because without them, many unboosted neutral attacks can 2HKO him, and even resisted attacks take off massive chunks of damage. It should be noted that with these Defense EVs, Lanturn is easily able to survive a Life Orb MixMence's Earthquake. In addition, without any Defense EVs, Lanturn is 2HKOed by a +1 Life Orb Waterfall from Gyarados, but with them he doesn't even come close to a 2HKO. Lastly, these Defense EVs let Lanturn take next to nothing from Choice Band Scizor's Bullet Punch, making him a great switch-in to a very common move. Therefore, after maxing out Special Defense and reaching 401 HP for a Leftovers number, the rest of the EVs should be dumped into Defense. This will allow Lanturn to parafuse a much wider variety of opponents. This EV spread also works very well in UU, where it makes a great counter to Arcanine while acting as a check to Blaziken and Azumarill. It also helps Lanturn take non-STAB Earthquakes relatively well if you have no choice. Surf is recommended over Ice Beam in UU as Fire-types are much more common, as well as Steelix and other slow Ground-types.

Since Lanturn's job is to spread paralysis and confuse in the process, teammates that benefit from paralyzed opponents will greatly appreciate partnering up with it. Togekiss is the best example of this, as he and Lanturn cover each other's weaknesses extremely well while paralysis helps Togekiss hax things to death with Air Slash. Encore Supporter Togekiss is the best variation of Togekiss to use in tandem with Lanturn, because he can Encore all the Earthquakes aimed at Lanturn with ease, as well as offer Wish support for him. In addition, the two together are staples on a hax team, as they make it nearly impossible for the opponent to move. Dragonite and Salamence also greatly appreciate Lanturn's support, as it takes down the Ice Beam-wielding bulky Waters with ease, with the exception of Swampert. Lanturn also enjoys their support as they have near-perfect coverage of each other's weaknesses. Teammates with strong Grass-type attacks, such as Venusaur, complement Lanturn very well, as he has a lot of trouble with Swampert, and again, they cover each other's weaknesses. Rotom-C is also helpful for defeating Swampert and covering the Ground weakness, but it also helps against Electivire, who gives Lanturn a bit of trouble. A partner that can kill Blissey is helpful, as Lanturn is helpless against her. Something such as Machamp can fill this role, while being a great partner in hax as well. Lastly, something such as Roserade or Rapid Spinners that can get rid of Toxic Spikes are very helpful to Lanturn's survival, as it becomes very difficult for him to do his job while poisoned.
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This is titanic. Before any other GP member go over it, I want to ask you to condense this down substantially. The OU Counters paragraph(s) should be at most 2 paragraphs, not 4. We don't need you to list every single Pokemon that can hit it super effectively. You also should not have 4 paragraphs of "Additional Comments" for the SubCharge set, that's obscene. You should aim to have 2 paragraphs of "Set Comments" and 2 (3 absolute max) paragraphs of "Additional Comments". You do not need to be as wordy as you're currently being with this analysis.
 
jc104: Great, thanks for your proof-read. Caught a lot of small things and made a few sentences less awkward :)

Regarding the Parafusion and the Agility sets, I haven't (and won't in the near future) had the chance to test them out. I could probably get around to it in a couple of weeks, but seeing as the Agility set will have to go through QC, if someone wants to write it up now already that would definitely speed things up.

Then again I kind of want to get this set up on the site asap (as no one will care about it once 5th gen. comes out). So maybe once I get the second grammar approval the set could be uploaded, and the Agility/Parafusion sets could be subsequently added/modified.



Rising_Dusk said:
This is titanic. Before any other GP member go over it, I want to ask you to condense this down substantially. The OU Counters paragraph(s) should be at most 2 paragraphs, not 4. We don't need you to list every single Pokemon that can hit it super effectively. You also should not have 4 paragraphs of "Additional Comments" for the SubCharge set, that's obscene. You should aim to have 2 paragraphs of "Set Comments" and 2 (3 absolute max) paragraphs of "Additional Comments". You do not need to be as wordy as you're currently being with this analysis.
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First of all there's no need to be rude.

As for your actual "suggestions," I can't find it now but back when I wrote this write-up two months ago there was a very specific template for writing an Analysis. It went like this:

Set Comments
- one paragraph explaining what the set accomplishes in general
- one paragraph explaining what the specific moves do

Additional Comments
- one paragraph on alternative moves
- one paragraph on EVs
- one paragraph on how the set should be used
- one to two paragraphs on team-mates (notice I only have one)


Part of the reason the analysis is so long in general is that I have to justify using Lanturn in OU. People don't have nearly as much experience using him as using Salamence and Scizor, and people need to be convinced that this set is actually viable. Also nobody else in this thread has made any
remarks on the length of the analysis, so I'm not changing anything just yet.
 
We're trying to avoid set in stone formats for what exactly should go in what paragraphs, and going with "essential to use the set information in SC, non-essential but important information in AC, the writers and checkers can use common sense".

And, while obscene may be over the top given that it's a fairly complex Pokemon which many readers will know little about, I think you should look through and try to find ways to reduce the length (while keeping as much of the important information as possible, it's hard to strike the balance). The current size would be quite intimidating to many readers.

Edit: To clarify, just talking about AC and to a lesser extent Counters. Length wise, SC and Overview are great.
 
Well I think we can both agree the SC are fine in terms of length, maybe too short even. I can move the paragraph at the end about teammate to a general OU Lanturn Teammate section, as that stuff isn't specific to the analysis and can apply to other OU sets as well.

If Lanturn were a staple in OU I definitely wouldn't insist on the third AC paragraph, but I think because its so rarely seen, I think an explanation of how to successfully use this set is really needed.

Also I'll work on shortening the counters section a little.
EDIT: I removed the last paragraph from the counters section as it has been said in the analysis anyway several times.

Does that sound fair?
 
Jonathan said:
First of all there's no need to be rude.
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I'm not being rude. I am telling you exactly what you should do. Sorry if it's more blunt than you're used to, but that's how I roll. I'm glad that you shortened it a bit, it'll be a lot less terrifying for users to read this way. I don't mind it being a little lengthy because of its strangeness in OU, but remember that this stuff has to mesh with the OU Parafusion set, so it's going to get even longer. I'll GP check this later today eventually.
 
Additions in bold, removals in red.
[OVERVIEW]
<h4>OU</h4>
<p>Despite the many Water- and Electric-types in OU, Lanturn fills a niche in the OU metagame that no other Pokemon can. Resistances to some of the most common special attacks, a 4x resistance to Steel, and fantastic coverage with his two STABs and Ice Beam are all very appealing. Immunity to Thunder Wave and other Electric attacks is just the icing on the cake. Lanturn is the closest thing you will find to a 100% counter to Life Orb Starmie and Substitute/Thunder Wave Substitute + Thunder Wave Jirachi, both of whom run rampant in today's metagame. If you're looking for a Pokemon to reliably take on some of OU's top threats and open the floor for a Salamence, Infernape, Heatan, or Gyarados sweep of your own, give Lanturn a splash!</p> ((This doesn't describe the downsides of using Lanturn in OU at all, which should absolutely be mentioned in the Overview))

[SET]
name: OU SubCharge
move 1: Substitute
move 2: Charge Beam
move 3: Hydro Pump / Surf
move 4: Ice Beam
item: Leftovers
ability: Volt Absorb
nature: Modest
evs: 52 HP / 252 SpA / 148 SpD / 56 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>Lanturn's unique typing and valuable ability have always given him plenty of free switches opportunities to switch in in the OU metagame. However, his mediocre Special Attack, Speed, and ability to lure Blissey in without fail have always relegated Lanturn to using parafusion sets. This set attempts to fix that through Substitute and Charge Beam, turning which turn Lanturn into a surprisingly dangerous mid-game Pokemon, capable of putting massive dents into seriously denting the opponent's team.</p>

<p>Substitute will usually be the first move you use. Many of the Pokemon Lanturn easily comes in on are likely to switch out, and Substitute allows you to safely pick your next move. It also blocks status moves from Blissey and Vaporeon who often think they can stall Lanturn to death with Toxic. After Substitute, your next move is dictated by whoever switches in. Hydro Pump deals over 50% to most Machamp, Metagross, Scizor, Tyranitar, and Jirachi. Ice Beam is for Dragons, Gliscor, and Breloom. If you're met with bulkier Pokemon like Blissey, Zapdos, or Celebi, Charge Beam away and then hit them with Hydro Pump or Ice Beam when you're ready.</p>

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

<p>The lack of Thunderbolt may be surprising at first glance, but Charge Beam is really the better move for this set. Unlike other Electric-type Pokemons, Lanturn's Water STAB allows him to run only Hydro Pump or Surf as his powerful STAB attack. The most common offensive switch-ins to Lanturn are hit equally hard by Surf as they are by Thunderbolt (Tyranitar actually being hit harder by Surf). Against bulky Water-typess where an Electric-type attack is needed, Charge Beam is more than enough.: mMost bulky Waters can't touch Lanturn in the first place, so you are free to chip away at their health and stat up. Charge Beam also allows Lanturn to beat many Pokemon who would usually use an instant recovery move in his face repeatedly. Hydro Pump is recommended over Surf on this set for the OHKO on Heatran and the 2HKO on the aforementioned Pokemon. Surf also ruins any shot at taking Blissey down, something that can usually be done with Hydro Pump and a couple of Charge Beams. Surf is still an option for more conservative players, but Lanturn really needs all the power he can get for this set to be effective.</p>

<p>52 HP EVs let you make 101 HP Substitutes, which together with Leftovers recovery and Charge Beam/Hydro Pump will more often than not let you take down Seismic Toss Blissey. The Speed EVs put you at 184 Speed, one point ahead of the standard Vaporeon. This is important as it allows you to set up on Vaporeon before he can Toxic you. The investment also helps against the occasional Scizor, Machamp, Tyranitar, or Metagross with a minimal investment in Speed. Special Attack is maxed to cause as much damage as possible with Lanturn's fantastic coverage. The rest is dumped in Special Defense, as Lanturn's resistances to common special attacks help his ability to switch in and general survivability and ability to switch in in the long run. With the above spread, Grass Knot (which hits for 40 Base Power) from a Defensive Celebi has a 50% chance not even to break Lanturn's Substitute.</p>

<p>Depending on your opponent's team and playstyle, this Lanturn usually ends up being used in one of two ways: as a hit-and-run Pokemon, or as a setup sweeper. You will find opportunities to switch Lanturn in against the majority of OU teams, whether it be into a bulky Water or into choiced Electric- or Steel-type attacks (don't forget Lanturn's 4x Steel resistance). Lanturn's ability to force switches gives many opportunities to use Substitute, which prepares you for either playing style depending on your opponent's answer to Lanturn. ((You already said that above)) If your opponent relies on bulky Pokemon like Machamp, Swampert, or Metagross to check Lanturn, using Lanturn as a hit-and-run attacker is recommended. Against stall teams, using Charge Beam is preferred, but make sure you keep Lanturn away from Toxic Spikes. One-on-one against Blissey, Lanturn will usually come out on top with 20-30% health left, a number of Charge Beam boosts and possibly a Substitute up; this means Lanturn will often be left in a position to take a second Pokemon down. Charge Beaming up against Calm Mind sweepers however, most notably Suicune and Jirachi, is more dangerous and should generally not be resorted to. Lanturn will need a critical hit to beat such opponents, but considering Suicune and Jirachi will need several Calm Minds to pose a threat to Lanturn, you stand a good chance of getting one with Charge Beam.</p>

[TEAM OPTIONS]
<h4>OU</h4>
<p>Gyarados partners wonderfully with Lanturn, as the former he often lures bulky Waters and Electric-type attacks, both of which Lanturn loves to take on. Mixmence MixMence also works well with Lanturn, not only because he easily takes Ground- and Grass-type attacks aimed at Lanturn, but because Lanturn sets up very easily on the most common Mixmence MixMence checks: bulky waters Water-types and CB Bullet Punch Choice Band Scizor. If you want to go for a more defensive teammate, Skarmory is a great candidate; the two cover each others' weaknesses perfectly. Toxic Spikes can also help Lanturn when Charge Beaming up against bulkier Pokemon like Celebi and Blissey, providing insurance against such threats in the event that Charge Beam misses or doesn't raise your Special Attack. They also help against Swampert, turning Hydro Pump into a 2HKO.</p>

[COUNTERS]
<h4>OU</h4>
<p>Without a Substitute up on the SubCharge set, most of OU's physical threats can easily force Lanturn out, as they will usually be faster than Lanturn. Be careful switching such Pokemon into Lanturn though, as between Lanturn's offensive coverage and the possibility of having a Substitute up, Lanturn can severely weaken them. many of OU's top physical threats. For this reason, Flygon with U-turn makes a particularly good counter to SubCharge Lanturn, as he can remove Lanturn's Substitute and switch to an appropriate counter in the same turn. When using the Parafusion set, Lanturn becomes a lot harder to take down in one blow, especially if the opponent is not immune to Thunder Wave. For this reason, Ground-type Pokemon with a powerful Earthquake, such as Swampert, are strongly recommended to effectively deal with this set. Snorlax with Earthquake is a phenomenal switch-in to Lanturn, not particularly caring about paralysis and able to take the assaults of SubCharge sets with ease. Not many special attackers can switch into Lanturn without putting themselves at serious risk. Jolteon with Hidden Power Grass can switch into the Parafusion set well, as Ice Beam won't do too much to him.</p>

<p>On the special side, countering Lanturn is a lot harder. Choice Scarf Heatran's Earth Power is a 2HKO against the SubCharge set, but keep in mind that Hydro Pump will OHKO. Gengar is not usually a safe bet, but can always work in a pinch: Shadow Ball is a 3HKO if he is running Life Orb, and Lanturn cannot OHKO Gengar with Hydro Pump. He can always resort to Hypnosis or Explosion though, so watch out for those moves. Gengar needs Substitute to deal with the Parafusion set, as he hates paralysis. Electrics with HP Grass pose a decent threat to SubCharge Lanturn, especially if they catch Lanturn on the switch-in, but note that Hydro Pump usually puts the advantage in Lanturn's court in the event of such match-ups. Defensive Rotom-A can incapacitate Lanturn with Will-O-Wisp, but it should not stick around as Shadow Ball only does 30% while Hydro Pump is a 2HKO. Rotom-C works particularly well with its access to Leaf Storm however. Jolteon with HP Grass is easily one of the best counters to the Parafusion set, since he is immune to Thunder Wave, and Lanturn's Ice Beam won't hit Jolteon for much damage.</p> ((This whole paragraph is unnecessary. You shouldn't list random Pokemon that can 2 and 3HKO Lanturn if they get OHKOed or completely maimed before they can do so.))

<p>As far as defensive Pokemon go, Swampert deserves special mention as the only bulky water capable of handling Lanturn: Hydro Pump is only a 3HKO, while Earthquake will scare Lanturn away. Note that Swampert cannot switch repeatedly into Lanturn, however, as he will quickly succumb to Hydro Pump. Celebi with Leaf Storm also poses a threat to Lanturn, as it is not even 2HKOed by Ice Beam. Grass Knot is a laughing matter for Lanturn, though, as it hits for 40 Base Power. Blissey can handle Lanturn if she comes in when Lanturn is low on health, but be wary of a Charge Beam sweep if she comes in on a Lanturn with over 70% health or a substitute Substitute.</p>
I am going to hold off on giving my GP stamp until after you implement my suggested changes. Pay special attention to my notes in parenthesis in the proofread, as those parts need the most work. Pretty good write-up otherwise, though.

Cheers.
 
Rising_Dusk said:
I'm not being rude. I am telling you exactly what you should do. Sorry if it's more blunt than you're used to, but that's how I roll. I'm glad that you shortened it a bit, it'll be a lot less terrifying for users to read this way. I don't mind it being a little lengthy because of its strangeness in OU, but remember that this stuff has to mesh with the OU Parafusion set, so it's going to get even longer. I'll GP check this later today eventually.
Click to expand...

Any user "terrified" by a 3 paragraph counters section shouldn't be reading a Smogon analysis. In fact, the current UU counter section is roughly as long!

This analysis suffers from "I have a hard on for Lanturn syndrome". The Overview paragraph hypes it like no other (yup, best counter for Life Orb Starmie. There is no other, not even Blissey!!!). There's even a terrible pun at the end. You generally spend a lot of time promoting Lanturn, and other comments in the thread generally show that you're not trying to hide your intent here. The problem is the analysis is biased as a result.

Your "Counters" list is filled to the brim with non-counters to make it sound better, for example, when Lanturn has several counters. Fast Earthquakers, Blissey, Tentacruel, Swampert immediately jump to mind, as do Roar Suicune / Vaporeon (have fun trying to KO with Charge Beam!).
 
Chris is me said:
Any user "terrified" by a 3 paragraph counters section shouldn't be reading a Smogon analysis. In fact, the current UU counter section is roughly as long!

This analysis suffers from "I have a hard on for Lanturn syndrome". The Overview paragraph hypes it like no other (yup, best counter for Life Orb Starmie. There is no other, not even Blissey!!!). There's even a terrible pun at the end. You generally spend a lot of time promoting Lanturn, and other comments in the thread generally show that you're not trying to hide your intent here. The problem is the analysis is biased as a result.

Your "Counters" list is filled to the brim with non-counters to make it sound better, for example, when Lanturn has several counters. Fast Earthquakers, Blissey, Tentacruel, Swampert immediately jump to mind, as do Roar Suicune / Vaporeon (have fun trying to KO with Charge Beam!).
Click to expand...

It is an enthusiastic analysis but I find the above unfair.
Many of the Pokemon you mentioned are addressed in the analysis.

Fast Earthquakes don't counter Lanturn if it used Substitute on the switch unless they can shrug off a Hydro Pump.
Without a Sub, it can be forced out by faster physcial attackers but the analysis says that!
I'm questioning whether you read through the entire OP.

Blissey is also mentioned but since Seismic Toss cannot quickly break Lanturn's Sub Blissey risks being set up on and 2HKOed by +4 Hydro Pump unless Lanturn is low on health.
Swampert is also indicated in the counters paragraph as one of the best bulky waters to take on Lanturn due to it's Electric immunity.
I'm not sure how ordinary Tentacruel counters this when a +0 Charge Beam followed by one at +1 has it on the brink of fainting at which point it is just breaking Lanturn's substitute with Sludge Bomb.

Specially bulky waters with Roar do a good job of preventing any setup but that could be said without the condescending air, IMO.
 
Is anybody working on a UU analysis for Lanturn? It's a bit awkward to upload this when there are different formats for the UU analyses (no overview, different end headers, no AC, etc.). If not, I would like someone to step up and volunteer to do so.
 
Jonathan said:
Okay Rising Dusk I've implemented your changes, sorry it took a while.
Click to expand...
I've done a quick look-over and it seems that you have indeed done so. Good job on that, I'll toss my stamp on this now.

GP Check 2/2
gp2.png

Philip7086 said:
Is anybody working on a UU analysis for Lanturn? It's a bit awkward to upload this when there are different formats for the UU analyses (no overview, different end headers, no AC, etc.). If not, I would like someone to step up and volunteer to do so.
Click to expand...
Currently, not that I can tell. It would be good if the whole UU section got a revamp before this is uploaded, though, I agree. We should let this sit until the UU side is done.
 
Lanturn is a part of my UU QC round, and the changes I outlined in my thread are major enough that a revamp is feasible. If no one else is willing to do it I'd be glad to write it up in accordance with current standards, although I don't know how quickly I'll be able to get it done.
 
@FlareBlitz: are you still willing to write the UU analysis for Lanturn? If not, it'd be nice to see if someone else could volunteer.
 
Yes, I am. I do apologize, university just started up again and I am a bit swamped. I'll get it done by the end of labor day weekend.
 
I uploaded this. Great job! I reorganized the UU analysis for Lanturn to facilitate the implementation of this OU analysis. Whenever a new UU analysis goes in, it can go over the parts I've split up.
 
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