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Team Trials III - Round 2
- Thread starter DJXO9
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no because you're not able to use sleep powder + spikes roserade in OU... illegal movesets have been removed for all fully evolved pokemon, why do you think this has never been a big deal before? you think if you could use belly drum + aqua jet azumarill it would maybe have been picked up on before now?
i've faced spikes + sleep powder roselia before on the uu ladder, many uu players are aware of the fact that it's not banned on shoddy, it was even posted about in the UU megathread, so no need to get so worked up about it.
Just because it hasn't been posted about doesn't mean you should use it. Maybe you should wise up and post about it then eh? You aren't the brightest crayon in the box judging from this discussion. You know very well it's illegal, however you use it anyway, not only is it shitty behavior for any user, but a badged user, I expected you to have better judgment. Now you're just being a prick.
it's alright indra i'll write about this in the smog tabloid section
how does "LR is a no good cheater!!!" sound for a headline
sub headline "Gouki and Jackal split! Gouki seen with Atticus in downtown Montreal???"
how does "LR is a no good cheater!!!" sound for a headline
sub headline "Gouki and Jackal split! Gouki seen with Atticus in downtown Montreal???"
I don't really understand this ruling.. I don't see how it's any different than someone playing on Captain's Modded server, using Flare Blitz Flareon, and then getting the win just because there isn't a rule against using Flare Blitz Flareon. No matter what, it is still an illegal moveset.
It's illegal for a reason.......
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ok fuck this post doesn't even express how angry I am with the current situation at all. LegacyRaider used a set which CANNOT be in the game on a NFE pokemon and then flaunts it saying 'get over it I won whatever.' That shit is ridiculous. I know there's been some BS wins given in the past, but this one takes the cake. There's a difference between stalling a clock and using a pokemon which cannot actually exist. We banned Arceus from the Ubers ladder because 'no one can legally get it.' and we know the illegal combos BECAUSE we don't want people to use them. Playing to the simulators limitations means we live with the faults of it mechanics wise, however we should try as hard as we can do avoid it. That's why we made a list of all the errors in shoddy, that's why we had a ban on some of them in tournaments. I guess it never occurred to the community 'well fuck I can use this illegal moveset in a tournament since there's no rule against it,' because we don't want to win by cheating. I guess that there are some people who really just like to win, to this completely ridiculous standard. It's 'play to win,' not 'play to be a douche.'
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ok fuck this post doesn't even express how angry I am with the current situation at all. LegacyRaider used a set which CANNOT be in the game on a NFE pokemon and then flaunts it saying 'get over it I won whatever.' That shit is ridiculous. I know there's been some BS wins given in the past, but this one takes the cake. There's a difference between stalling a clock and using a pokemon which cannot actually exist. We banned Arceus from the Ubers ladder because 'no one can legally get it.' and we know the illegal combos BECAUSE we don't want people to use them. Playing to the simulators limitations means we live with the faults of it mechanics wise, however we should try as hard as we can do avoid it. That's why we made a list of all the errors in shoddy, that's why we had a ban on some of them in tournaments. I guess it never occurred to the community 'well fuck I can use this illegal moveset in a tournament since there's no rule against it,' because we don't want to win by cheating. I guess that there are some people who really just like to win, to this completely ridiculous standard. It's 'play to win,' not 'play to be a douche.'
Sorry this is my fault for bringing them into our SPL channel, I'm contagious
Also the date on that post LR linked is very interesting since it pretty indisputable he was knowingly/intentionally using an illegal moveset. I have no idea how you can justify giving a win for that. Impressively classless to exploit it knowing it was a programming oversight regardless. Got a good laugh at "no need to get worked up about it" to defend your own blatant/intentional cheating, though.
The difference is that these movesets can be used on a team made on the Smogon server. The TDs' stance on this is comparable to the stance on in-battle glitches. They are indeed illegal movesets, but the current stance is that we go by what you can do on the simulator (as long as it doesn't "break the game").
Most illegal movesets are already banned on the server anyway. RBG said that not all of them could be banned due to simulator limitations. Hopefully Roselia's illegal movesets will also be banned soon, since it seems like an important combination to ban.
Well EW, it's Smogon's fault for allowing these sets to be allowed, not the players who lose to them. So maybe Indra shouldn't be punished for losing to something he can't control, Legacy Raider wanted to be Barrack Obama, and congratulations he has achieved that status seeing as half of the tournament section hates him now.
I mean, it's okay if there's a glitch as shit happens, but knowingly using an illegal set and getting away with it because "you know you can", wheres the justice in that? Some tournament lol
I mean, it's okay if there's a glitch as shit happens, but knowingly using an illegal set and getting away with it because "you know you can", wheres the justice in that? Some tournament lol
It's completely ridiculous you'd loop an illegal moveset in with something along with the Choice Glitch. Just because something's not correctly implemented, does not give someone the right to abuse it, flaunt about it, and then get given their win even though it's clear it shouldn't be allowed. It seems so absurd you (the TDs) even would think about giving the win away scott-free. At the bare minimum the match itself should be re-done, without the illegal pokemon being used. This whole "we play to the simulator" shit is getting out of hand, sure, we play to win, but we certainly shouldn't play in a manner that the community (as you've clearly should have seen by the responses) deems horrible. If you don't cater to how the community feels then how do you expect there to be any interest?
"Oh well we've changed the rule so it won't affect anyone else," well great, but what about Light-Kun, he's just screwed over? Why hasn't this been brought up before e.g. why haven't people complained? I don't think people using illegal sets are actually common because they think it's a bad thing to do -- it's not competitive. Light-Kun shouldn't be given the match, but it should be redone.
"Oh well we've changed the rule so it won't affect anyone else," well great, but what about Light-Kun, he's just screwed over? Why hasn't this been brought up before e.g. why haven't people complained? I don't think people using illegal sets are actually common because they think it's a bad thing to do -- it's not competitive. Light-Kun shouldn't be given the match, but it should be redone.
by that logic someone can switch a sash poke in on a multi hit move. The poke faints and they can claim "ZOMG HE CHEATED" because it would have happened in game. I say you live with it. It is common knowledge that Shoddy has some illegal movesets allowed. I really don't see how it is that much of an issue. If you lost to powder spikes rose you probably would have fared badly against the legal powder tspikes rose anyway.
tbph Outside of Little Cup I would have no problem with my opponent using that or a wish scrappy kanga or whatever else is able to be used on shoddy. The aim is to win so you use what you can.
tbph Outside of Little Cup I would have no problem with my opponent using that or a wish scrappy kanga or whatever else is able to be used on shoddy. The aim is to win so you use what you can.
To address the situation, we are currently in an unorthodox situation where we are on the last legs of a gen AND a simulator. Under normal circumstances I would never say "illegal movesets are allowed", but this is an interesting case.
It is the sims job to inform me when a moveset is illegal. If the sim is not doing that, it needs to be changed so it does. However right now, we are currently in a state where sb1 work has been abandoned as far as I know for sb2 work, and thus no one is readily updating things like this.
The best thing that could happen in this situation would be obviously to fix the simulator... but i think if that was going to happen, it would be done already. We kind of have to awkwardly sit here and wait for Shoddy Battle 2, which sucks.
Despite this, I am here to decide rulings, not who is being a "douchebag". Our rules say play by the sim, and that stands. This moveset is allowed on the ladder, and the ladder is the metagame. If we can't regulate it on the ladder, it is pretty silly to do so in the tournament.
If I could fix the simulator right now, I would do it. It is a top priority thing in my books. These kind of things I take seriously, I am no cart purist, but illegal movesets should have no place in competitive play. However, for all the above reasons these circumstances dictate that the win stands.
Now on the question of morality/respect, that is something else to deal with. Some people pride themselves on acting with integrity and class, some people don't. That is how life works, not just pokemon! Deal with it.
It is the sims job to inform me when a moveset is illegal. If the sim is not doing that, it needs to be changed so it does. However right now, we are currently in a state where sb1 work has been abandoned as far as I know for sb2 work, and thus no one is readily updating things like this.
The best thing that could happen in this situation would be obviously to fix the simulator... but i think if that was going to happen, it would be done already. We kind of have to awkwardly sit here and wait for Shoddy Battle 2, which sucks.
Despite this, I am here to decide rulings, not who is being a "douchebag". Our rules say play by the sim, and that stands. This moveset is allowed on the ladder, and the ladder is the metagame. If we can't regulate it on the ladder, it is pretty silly to do so in the tournament.
If I could fix the simulator right now, I would do it. It is a top priority thing in my books. These kind of things I take seriously, I am no cart purist, but illegal movesets should have no place in competitive play. However, for all the above reasons these circumstances dictate that the win stands.
Now on the question of morality/respect, that is something else to deal with. Some people pride themselves on acting with integrity and class, some people don't. That is how life works, not just pokemon! Deal with it.
Perhaps you can elaborate on this point. You should outline which illegal movesets are apparently ALLOWED to be used and which are not. Until then isn't it just a guessing game of whether users can play with certain illegal sets or not? What are you doing to prevent this from happening again?
What constitutes as a "normal circumstance" to you? One where it is blatantly obvious that the moveset shouldn't be allowed?
If you feel this way then wouldn't the easiest solution be to ban all illegal movesets on tourney/ladder play (ie: enforcing disqualifications in tourneys/infracting on the ladder)?
So waiting for the new simulator causes you to make decisions that contradict everything you say? Obviously the best thing to solve this is to grant Light-Kun a rematch.
Why can't you regulate it on the ladder? It almost seems to me that you're giving up and saying "oh well it is too much work to moderate the ladder to make sure things are fair so why bother?"
If you want to fix something as badly as you say then wouldn't the next best thing be to manually fix it by moderating illegal movesets? Simply saying "deal with it" is not a good enough answer for me and I'm sure others feel the same way.
This is the only point that I will address. LegacyRaider did nothing that was against the tournament rules, so why should he be penalized? Sure it was immoral (in most people's eyes), but he did nothing against the rules. The moveset he used was allowed by shoddybattle, and the stickied thread says no glitches from shoddybattle are banned. The stickied thread also says the following
From my point of view, Legacy Raider did nothing against the rules and thus should not be penalized. Yeah, it sucks to be Light-Kun, but he shoudl have been prepared for something that was allowed by the simulator.
heh i really didn't mean to cause all this drama, and in response to me 'flaunting' it, it seems that way now but it's harder to see just how badly trolled i was being at the time by light-kun and his cronies... i was a little annoyed. i have no qualms about rematching him, if anyone has a look at the log it's unbelievably obvious that i would have beaten him even without the *1 extra layer of spikes* that the illegal combination gave me (seeing as my first sleep powder missed). i don't mind playing him again without that pokemon on my team, but really if he gets the win now i'd think it's slightly unfair :(.
truth is i'd been using the combo on ladder as a laugh because someone had pointed out that it was usable on shoddy, and i'd completely forgotten i had it on my team when i was due to play the tournament match. i played the game at 3 am my time, so i really didn't have the patience to put up with the shit i was getting about it and so sorry if i was short and acted like a douchebag. i don't see why an honest mistake followed by two overreactions has caused all this drama :(
i don't particularly want to win this way anyway, but i love how light-kun has managed to milk his way out of the fact that i would have trashed him either way by making such a big deal out of this. so while if it had made a difference to the game outcome like in the slightest, i would perhaps even go as far as to hand the win to him. but light-kun you know your team was complete spikes set up bait for a simple spikes roselia as well, you were using surf hp grass milotic ffs, and that registeel that i slept with my second sleep powder hit was an invitation for my roar torterra to come in. you know you would have lost but if you really want to go ahead and kick up such a fuss, use that moveset as an excuse, then fine. i'm coming off as the perceived guilty party and if it's a rematch you want then i don't mind playing you again.
truth is i'd been using the combo on ladder as a laugh because someone had pointed out that it was usable on shoddy, and i'd completely forgotten i had it on my team when i was due to play the tournament match. i played the game at 3 am my time, so i really didn't have the patience to put up with the shit i was getting about it and so sorry if i was short and acted like a douchebag. i don't see why an honest mistake followed by two overreactions has caused all this drama :(
i don't particularly want to win this way anyway, but i love how light-kun has managed to milk his way out of the fact that i would have trashed him either way by making such a big deal out of this. so while if it had made a difference to the game outcome like in the slightest, i would perhaps even go as far as to hand the win to him. but light-kun you know your team was complete spikes set up bait for a simple spikes roselia as well, you were using surf hp grass milotic ffs, and that registeel that i slept with my second sleep powder hit was an invitation for my roar torterra to come in. you know you would have lost but if you really want to go ahead and kick up such a fuss, use that moveset as an excuse, then fine. i'm coming off as the perceived guilty party and if it's a rematch you want then i don't mind playing you again.
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