Seriously, Why is everyone saying that this poke wont be getting this move and that move?? I mean current egg moves are all old gen moves meaning there are still a lot of possible egg moves, moreover tutor moves had yet to be revealed and a possible third version, I'm assuming grey version(the ice-dragon type called kyuremu is grey) they will get even more moves, like how scizor gets bullet punch. Besides, there might be a remake of RSE, (because HGGS remake hint was the gym leader dont know what's her name at sunnyshore city and I guess making dive as a HM is a hint for having a RSE remake), and if there really is wider move pool for a lot of pokes will be added, so dont look down on a poke just yet, no one expected scizor to be so powerful when DP released but when it gets Bullet Punch in platinum, it starts its havoc.
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Hydreigon
- Thread starter R.B.G.
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Because we can't just assume things. You know, because nobody was saying "Scizor will be deadly when it gets Bullet Punch" when D/P was released. When the moves/items/whatever comes, then people will talk. Forget Draco Meteor, I'm not even sure if Choice items have even returned this gen?
Nonetheless, I like Sazando. As soon as I saw that B/W would have a line of Dark/Dragon Pokemon a few days prior to release I had a good feeling. It plays different from OHNONO dragon, Salamence and Garchomp, but I still think it'll see some good use due to its bulkiness and mixed attacking capabilities. It doesn't have a hindering 4x weakness, and its common Fighting weakness can be fixed with Shanderaa. Actually, Shanderaa can help with its Ice weakness too. Shadow Tag the check and then blast it with an Overheat. Yep, sounds good to me.
True, although usually you'd have to sacrifice something to Shanderaa or predict the switch to Shanderaa first. Because of Shadow Tag, you can't make the normal "oh, switch to Pokemon that can take the hit" move.
I was looking through egg moves and thought I would point this out because it has competitive ramifications.
Breeding chain for Dark Pulse: Breed with Seviper / Arbok (TM79, DPPtHGSS ONLY)
Breeding chain for Earth Power: Breed with Garchomp (Tutor, PtHGSS ONLY)
Therefore Dark Pulse + Earth Power is illegal.
Breeding chain for Dark Pulse: Breed with Seviper / Arbok (TM79, DPPtHGSS ONLY)
Breeding chain for Earth Power: Breed with Garchomp (Tutor, PtHGSS ONLY)
Therefore Dark Pulse + Earth Power is illegal.
Despite his limitations (lack of set up moves, inability to get Earth Power + Dark Pulse), this Pokemon still has one of the strongest Draco Meteors in the game (other than Lati@s, Salamence and all the Uber dragons), and if Lati@s and Mence are once again out of the picture once the OU metagame is settled, then it is the highest. Too, Sazando has Flamethrower and Fire Blast, (which Lati@s lack), and more bulk, not to mention more auspicious typing when compared to Mence. This thing is definitely a beast.
'Cheer Up' is the perfect stat up move for this sort of mixed attacker, so I'm not sure what the complaint is aside from people wanting to bowl stuff over with Nasty Plot.
His move pool is massive, and he has good stats all around, working well with his defensives and offenses. In fact, he receives support moves like Thunder-Wave to make up for is 'lack of speed', and Taunt.
This people should be one of the main Speed receivers via Baton Pass this generation.
His move pool is massive, and he has good stats all around, working well with his defensives and offenses. In fact, he receives support moves like Thunder-Wave to make up for is 'lack of speed', and Taunt.
This people should be one of the main Speed receivers via Baton Pass this generation.
Personally, I feel this pokemon is overrated as a 'superior' Latias.
Firstly, a Fighting weakness is incredibly huge, more so than people realize. Latias was considered an Infernape counter--do you think it could still say that after it was weak to fighting and close combat?
Secondly, it is almost essential for a slow set up pokemon to have recovery (rest cursepert and rest suicune, Latias, curselax, etc). Without recovery, Sanzando would struggle to gain enough power to be threatening.
My final argument is against those "good" defenses. While as a typing Sanzando is solid, those defenses probably won't be in gen 5. In gen 4, yes. But then you could say that the Lamprey is usable in 5th gen OU. Sanzando is still going to cringe from powerful ice attacks. It cannot take many hits from the huge hitters out there. Lucario and the new Kojondo exist, and we just got 4 more fighting legendaries. Therefore, I believe Sanzando is severely overrated, even with Cheer Up (Ego Boost is such a cooler and appropriate name for Sanzando...). If Sanzando was released last gen, it would've been a definite OU. But will it be this gen? I made my point--now you make your decision.
Firstly, a Fighting weakness is incredibly huge, more so than people realize. Latias was considered an Infernape counter--do you think it could still say that after it was weak to fighting and close combat?
Secondly, it is almost essential for a slow set up pokemon to have recovery (rest cursepert and rest suicune, Latias, curselax, etc). Without recovery, Sanzando would struggle to gain enough power to be threatening.
My final argument is against those "good" defenses. While as a typing Sanzando is solid, those defenses probably won't be in gen 5. In gen 4, yes. But then you could say that the Lamprey is usable in 5th gen OU. Sanzando is still going to cringe from powerful ice attacks. It cannot take many hits from the huge hitters out there. Lucario and the new Kojondo exist, and we just got 4 more fighting legendaries. Therefore, I believe Sanzando is severely overrated, even with Cheer Up (Ego Boost is such a cooler and appropriate name for Sanzando...). If Sanzando was released last gen, it would've been a definite OU. But will it be this gen? I made my point--now you make your decision.
1. Infernape is hardly scary in a generation with things like Shanderaa, Burunkeru, Drizzle Politoed, Boiling Water and Urugamosu roaming about, among other things.
2. Because Sazando is utilizing both of its attacking stats with Cheer Up, less set up is needed; it can just attack from the stat where the opponent has a weaker defense.
3. Just as you don't absorb Earthquakes with Heatran or let Salamence soak up Ice Beams, you switch out Sazando in the face of a fighter.
You do have some valid points, but I'm afraid I disagree with some. Cheer Up is not Swords Dance--even though the boost is powerful, it is simply not strong enough to dent counters hard enough, I.E. Swampert if it lacks HP Grass. And I doubt Vaporeon, Mamanbou, Blissey, that grass/steel thing, and other walls will be OHKOed by Sanzando. Unless there is something I am missing (even with life orb, which cuts down on its health even more).
Infernape was a general example--I saw many new pokemon that replaced it in Fifth gen. This does, however, does not change the fact that there are several fighting pokemon, and many powerful fighting moves. A resistance to fighting is huge, and is a reason why Ghost, with an immunity, is such a great type. And therefore, Infernape is replaced by many powerful threats such as Scizor, Kojondo, Onokuresu, Lucario, some things you mentioned, and more. Thus, it makes Sanzando's durability even harder to pass off. And I don't think burn affects fire types, despite Boiling Water. And I don't even want to talk about Shaandera--obviously, everyone will be adjusting their teams so they won't be swept by it.
Whether or not a fighter is out, there are still pokemon (like the ones you mentioned) that can dent Sanzanda hard enough. Recover is an essential tool that Sanzanda can't afford to miss. If Sanzanda doesn't have the defenses to be able to set up against an opponent, then it is not very durable, and is unlikely to be a potent threat.
Note: U Turn weakness is also rather painful.
Yeah I haven't understood all the hype around Sazando, sure he's a great counter to ghost types. But he get's crushed by a lot of other things. I don't think he's bad at all, but a superior latias? Hell nah.
Wouldn't it make more sense to have a Speed+ nature on Happy Hydra instead of Modest? It would probably appreciate that extra speed more than the boost in its SpAtk considering it's planning on boosting it with Cheer Up.
I think Sazando biggest perk is being able to fire off Choice Specs Draco Meteors from that 125 Base Sp.Atk and switching out without worrying about Pursuit or SR weakness. His Specs Draco Meteors will dent almost everything.
Pursuit weakness is much more detrimental than fighting weakness. Latias could do nothing to Tyranitar/Scizor after it fired off a Draco Meteor. She either stayed in and took a lethal blow, or switched out and died. Sazando can just switch.
Pursuit weakness is much more detrimental than fighting weakness. Latias could do nothing to Tyranitar/Scizor after it fired off a Draco Meteor. She either stayed in and took a lethal blow, or switched out and died. Sazando can just switch.
How about a sub set?
Sazando @ Leftovers (Timid/Modest)
86 HP/ 176 SpA/ 248 Spe
-Substitute
-Draco Meteor
-Earth Power/ Fire Blast/ Flamethrower
-Dragon Tail
A little bit bulky approach. Sub when you can force a switch, Dragon tail just as a Roar that can put a little damage down, and rack up some residual as they may not have may pokes to handle Sazzy. May make a decent phaxer next to Skarm resisting his fire/ electric, while skarm resists dragon/ bug. Meteor to punish someone with that beast SpA, EP for heatran that may want to switch in. 248 to outspeed OHNO! before a DD.
Maybe if you want to sacrifice somme coverage you could try a Sub + Cheer up. I'm only really saying sub sets because 98 base Spe is just not QUITE at that benchmark point. Or, if you can pass and agility with something like Jolt (who potentially draws ground attacks), then you may just screw over the other team with cheer up + 3 attacks.
Just some thought, although (of course) they cant be tested yet. By far this is (right now at least) my favorite poke of gen 5, as i've been having to use Kindra as my Draco Meteor spammer since Lati is gone :'(
Hopefully these sets are viable, but i've never been great at making sets, except for gimmicks (which mine never work, they're just fun to use :P)
Sazando @ Leftovers (Timid/Modest)
86 HP/ 176 SpA/ 248 Spe
-Substitute
-Draco Meteor
-Earth Power/ Fire Blast/ Flamethrower
-Dragon Tail
A little bit bulky approach. Sub when you can force a switch, Dragon tail just as a Roar that can put a little damage down, and rack up some residual as they may not have may pokes to handle Sazzy. May make a decent phaxer next to Skarm resisting his fire/ electric, while skarm resists dragon/ bug. Meteor to punish someone with that beast SpA, EP for heatran that may want to switch in. 248 to outspeed OHNO! before a DD.
Maybe if you want to sacrifice somme coverage you could try a Sub + Cheer up. I'm only really saying sub sets because 98 base Spe is just not QUITE at that benchmark point. Or, if you can pass and agility with something like Jolt (who potentially draws ground attacks), then you may just screw over the other team with cheer up + 3 attacks.
Just some thought, although (of course) they cant be tested yet. By far this is (right now at least) my favorite poke of gen 5, as i've been having to use Kindra as my Draco Meteor spammer since Lati is gone :'(
Hopefully these sets are viable, but i've never been great at making sets, except for gimmicks (which mine never work, they're just fun to use :P)
This looks nice, although using Substitute and Draco Meteor will wear you down. Substitute does give you the opportunity to nail the switch in on the next turn. I think Flamethrower should be Slashed in the final slot as that would give you perfect coverage alongside Earth Power and Draco Meteor.
Man this thing has an awesome movepool. Personally I like the fact that it got Tri attack. While useless on a choiced set Try attack can give nice neutral coverage while also getting those chances of Status.
Are people just saying hype around these forums for the sake of being funny? or is it just a retarded trend that seems to be in every thread? I mean seriously. Sometimes I wonder if people even use the word properly.
Regarding the "hype" of this Dragon is not like the others. It will indeed turn out to be good in various ways. It isn't an "inferior Latias" when it can't be pursuit trapped. It has a mixed set that can be extremely potent, while a choice specs set is fully viable. In fact, a choiced sazando may come in handy against Ono, who is slower then it, and can possibly revenge it depending on it's set. Even with all that, Sazando itself has a great movepool to compliment it's very well balanced stats. As such, it can focus on various other aspects, and even be a reliable tank in some cases.
The Cheer up set is more then viable if your looking for something along the lines of nasty plot/calm mind. Reason behind it working so perfectly is because it'll be boosting both attacking stats in one go while still being under the influence of it's mixed attacks, which coincidently, makes it a stronger wallbreaker, and everything. Did I forget to mention that Sazando can counter most of the new ghost on it's own? Catching Shaderra in the wrong move will more then likely bring the death of the poor ghost, and vice versa for others (bar the ground/ghost maybe because of his punching sets). IMO, if it had gotten pursuit, it would be eveng greater then it already is (or atleast hopefully it still can in someway).
Regarding the "hype" of this Dragon is not like the others. It will indeed turn out to be good in various ways. It isn't an "inferior Latias" when it can't be pursuit trapped. It has a mixed set that can be extremely potent, while a choice specs set is fully viable. In fact, a choiced sazando may come in handy against Ono, who is slower then it, and can possibly revenge it depending on it's set. Even with all that, Sazando itself has a great movepool to compliment it's very well balanced stats. As such, it can focus on various other aspects, and even be a reliable tank in some cases.
The Cheer up set is more then viable if your looking for something along the lines of nasty plot/calm mind. Reason behind it working so perfectly is because it'll be boosting both attacking stats in one go while still being under the influence of it's mixed attacks, which coincidently, makes it a stronger wallbreaker, and everything. Did I forget to mention that Sazando can counter most of the new ghost on it's own? Catching Shaderra in the wrong move will more then likely bring the death of the poor ghost, and vice versa for others (bar the ground/ghost maybe because of his punching sets). IMO, if it had gotten pursuit, it would be eveng greater then it already is (or atleast hopefully it still can in someway).
Oh that is indeed nice! That makes Sazando even more excellent then it already is! I can see Sazando gaining a spot alongside Ono because of it's ability to check some of his steel switch ins.
I feel that Sazando's bulk for a potent special attacker is the easiest thing to miss.
Really, 92/90/90 defenses are just below the the pixies and Sazando has Water, Fire, Grass, Electric, Ghost and Dark resists + a Psychic immunity and a Ground immunity through Levitate.
It should defnitely find a number of chances to switch in and fire off powerful attacks; just don't come in on the types it is 2x weak to.
Really, 92/90/90 defenses are just below the the pixies and Sazando has Water, Fire, Grass, Electric, Ghost and Dark resists + a Psychic immunity and a Ground immunity through Levitate.
It should defnitely find a number of chances to switch in and fire off powerful attacks; just don't come in on the types it is 2x weak to.
Sazando has a lot of stuff over Latias; it checks Ghosts better and can't be Pursuittrapped due to its tyimg, and it's one of the few things to resist STAB combos like Ghost / Ground, Ghost / Fire and Ghost / Water (all of which appear on viable mons this gen) as well as the common coverage combo Ghost / Electric. Also, it gets Flamethrower; Latias has BIG problems with Nuttre and Sazando just laughs in its face. It OHKOs Scizor, Forretress etc. as well.
The set, I think, is probably going to be:
Sazando @ Choice Specs
Levitate
4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid (+Spe, -SpA)
Draco Meteor
Flamethrower
U-Turn
Dragon Pulse / Dark Pulse / Surf
Latias' fighting resistance, higher Speed, higher Special Defense and Trick access are obviously going to be useful, but Latias is much less reliable in a metagame populated by Nuttre and Tyranitar to counter weather. It depends a lot on team, of course.
The set, I think, is probably going to be:
Sazando @ Choice Specs
Levitate
4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid (+Spe, -SpA)
Draco Meteor
Flamethrower
U-Turn
Dragon Pulse / Dark Pulse / Surf
Latias' fighting resistance, higher Speed, higher Special Defense and Trick access are obviously going to be useful, but Latias is much less reliable in a metagame populated by Nuttre and Tyranitar to counter weather. It depends a lot on team, of course.