Ditto

DoctorOctagonapus said:
How would this function in a double switch? would you copy the mon switching out or switching in? or would it be random?
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I don't know if this has been answered yet, but I'm pretty sure it copies the Pokemon in the top slot (the opponents left side).

Thorhammer said:
As someone pointed out, Ditto doesn't necessarily have lower HP than the original. Because its other stats are determined independently of its EVs, it can have max HP, beating some lower-HP sweepers that don't invest such as Lucario.
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This is legit. Too legit.
I hope that Eccentric using Dittos become either Uber or frowned upon in certain environments.
 
Emperor said:
Right here in smogon actually lol

http://www.smogon.com/dp/moves/transform

"The stats are copied exactly, without regard to EVs, IVs, and level"

meaning that ditto copies the EXACT current stats the pokemon it transforming into has, including the stat increases
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Wow, that is actually really cool. Although I can not see him serving any other purpose than revenge killing, having something consistently able to do it on just about everyone is a huge plus.
 
Pidgey Pox said:
This is legit. Too legit.
I hope that Eccentric using Dittos become either Uber or frowned upon in certain environments.
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I don't see why it should be. While Ditto will be able to revenge kill anything that has set up and start sweeping, he isn't perfect. Most of the time, you will need to sacrifice something in order to get Ditto in safely. Not exactly ban material. Ditto will also do nothing against a stall team. Yes, you can check movesets, but after that, what will Ditto do? If you're choiced you can't do anything with a stalling pokemon and even if you aren't choiced, you only have 5 PP of each move which means you will lose the stalling match eventually and have to switch out.

Ditto will probably be used as an pivot point for more balanced teams that want an easy button if the opponent manages to set up a sweeper. This makes him a bit of a gamble, as you won't always fight offensive teams and Ditto will probably only be as good as the stat boost he transforms into.
 
NecknNeck said:
I don't see why it should be. While Ditto will be able to revenge kill anything that has set up and start sweeping, he isn't perfect. Most of the time, you will need to sacrifice something in order to get Ditto in safely. Not exactly ban material. Ditto will also do nothing against a stall team. Yes, you can check movesets, but after that, what will Ditto do? If you're choiced you can't do anything with a stalling pokemon and even if you aren't choiced, you only have 5 PP of each move which means you will lose the stalling match eventually and have to switch out.

Ditto will probably be used as an pivot point for more balanced teams that want an easy button if the opponent manages to set up a sweeper. This makes him a bit of a gamble, as you won't always fight offensive teams and Ditto will probably only be as good as the stat boost he transforms into.
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I can see him being used in much the same way against stall teams as well, though with the cost of not being able to effectively revenge kill anymore. You forget that ditto's pp refreshes with being switched in, and a majority of stall teams run phazing moves.
 
Nanoswine said:
Ditto has all the right to have such a hype, but seriously it isn't going to be that hard to beat it. Although it knows your moveset, as such you know it's moveset making it predictable as hell, and locked in by choice scarf.

Lets take this situation for example: Your Lucario at +2 Atk takes out the opponent's Nuttree. Ditto comes in to revenge kill. It is obviously forced to Close Combat, no other move would take out your Lucario, so if you choose to stay in they lose Ditto for no reason. So guess what you do? You switch in Shanderaa, set up a sub, and get to +6 SpAtk/SpDef with CM. Obviously a textbook example, but you get the idea.
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Looks like we think alike. I literally came up with this exact same strategy and was just going through the thread to make sure nobody posted it before I did. As a note to this, it's probably worth using a moveset of:
Shadow ball
Calm Mind
Nitro Boost
Substitute
and you'd have to check to make sure lucario's struggle won't break a sub.

To the guy who said that you risk getting owned by a prediction and crunch, I say: just have your +2 lucario use CC. If he predicts, he dies. If he uses CC and kills you, you have your Chandelier trap. If he switches, even to a ghost type, you still have your +2 Crunch or Bullet Punch and can attempt to continue your sweep.

I'm not sure what hard Ditto counters there are, since Ditto gets its PP back by switching. However, it shouldn't be all too hard to play around a Ditto, since you aren't countering one of your own pokemon; you just need to counter one of your pokemon after it's locked into one move. Another idea would be that mole thing (can only be revenge killed through EQ) and a Gyarados of some sort @ Swim Goggles, but that's in trouble if Ditto just switches out.

While I'm here, the new generation of WiFi annoyances: No species clause, 6 Dittos.
 
Ucal said:
I can see him being used in much the same way against stall teams as well, though with the cost of not being able to effectively revenge kill anymore. You forget that ditto's pp refreshes with being switched in, and a majority of stall teams run phazing moves.
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But if you're switching against a stall team often, that means stall is winning. And if you give up scarf, you lose your ability to revenge kill 50% of the time. All it seems that Ditto can do is revenge kill and even that will require some prediction to use effectively.
 
For extra fun, name the Ditto so nobody can tell it's a Ditto unless their Pokémon has a gender and they look at your Ditto's gender.

But... The problem is that you will need to keep catching Dittos until you find one with a 31 HP IV, since you can't breed Ditto.
 
This thing is going to be monstrous.
Presuming that Eccentric works in the same way that Transform works. Nothing will be able to set up safely. I can see Ditto 'shaping' (lolpun) the metagame into either stall or mass revenge killing. I think the latter is most definitely going to be the forte of this metagame.
 
TorchicBlaziken said:
For extra fun, name the Ditto so nobody can tell it's a Ditto unless their Pokémon has a gender and they look at your Ditto's gender.

But... The problem is that you will need to keep catching Dittos until you find one with a 31 HP IV, since you can't breed Ditto.
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Why can't you breed ditto? I thought ditto + ditto makes ditto eggs?
 
Thorhammer said:
As someone pointed out, Ditto doesn't necessarily have lower HP than the original. Because its other stats are determined independently of its EVs, it can have max HP, beating some lower-HP sweepers that don't invest such as Lucario.

Opponents not carrying moves super effective against themselves isn't necessarily a problem, either. Say you're facing an Infernape. You don't need a super effective hit when you can just outspeed with a Choice Scarf and use its Close Combat against it. It could be a problem for some sweepers that resist their STABs, though, such as Suicune.
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I actually thought of the max HP a little after I originally posted. So I the calculation and I was actually surprised that max HP Ditto gets all the way to 300. I could see how sweepers would be in that general range, but stall Pokemon would typically be much higher than that.

When I said that Pokemon don't always carry super effective moves against themselves, I was thinking of dragon dance Gyrados (or at least the one with taunt). Suicune is also a good example.

All things considered, I think that Ditto might be relatively common threat to deal with, but there are enough situations where Ditto would lose to stop it from being overpowered.
 
Yogi Bear. said:
I just realized that Eccentric Ditto is a good scout for Zoroark: if it transforms into a Pokemon that ISN'T the one you see, then it must be a Zoroark (with Illusion: idk if Zoroark gets a DW ability).
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A Zoroark lead would be "uncovered" by a Ditto lead. But Eccentric Ditto will auto-Transform into Zoroark and gain Illusion, right? Wouldn't that instantly reveal one of Ditto's teammates?
 
Imagine how fun it would be to use a team of 6 dittos. It would be like using a new team every match. Too bad species clause is usually enforced in most battles.
 
This is for future Ditto analysis
Set Name- Me First (Revenge)
Ability: Eccentric-You transform into the Pokemon in front of you - ie your opponent.

Item-Choice Scarf
Nature- Timid Or Jolly
EV's 252hp 252speed 6 def

Move Set-
Transform

Overview-
In the OU inviorment Ditto's new dream world ability allows who
to become a counter or revenger with the ability to come in on any pokemon anticipated to throw out a resisted stab ditto can come in and tank the hit and then strike back. A good Example is Ditto Comin in on Heatrans FireBlast, taking no damage and striking back with EarthPower if its on the set. Ditto can also come in on a DragonDancer and outspeed it if
it has only danced ones and strike back with outrage to Kingdra or Earthquake to Tyranitar.
ExpertBelt Is also an Option but you are risking speed ties, and will be out ran by Dragon and ButterFly Dancers

Set Name- Utility Ditto
Ability: Eccentric-You transform into the Pokemon in front of you - ie your opponent.

Item- Leftovers/Lum Berry
Nature- Timid or Jolly
EV's= 252hp 252speed 6 def,

Move Set-
Tranform

Overview-
With Leftovers Ditto can now come in on walls,stealthrockers, spikers and spinners.Ditto can then proceed to set up its own entry hazards or spin them away. Blissey and rosarade are good pokemon for Ditto to come in on, as they may be carrying aromatherapy and a status move allowing you to keep ditto in after you aromatherapy.
 
Ditto with quick claw might make a revenge killer
Ditto Lead

I think ditto scarf is less reliable than quick claw for revenge killing because of Dragon Dance and agility
 
red12345 said:
Ditto with quick claw might make a revenge killer
Ditto Lead

I think ditto scarf is less reliable than quick claw for revenge killing because of Dragon Dance and agility
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Quick Claw and reliable in the same sentence? Are you feeling OK? :P

The point of using Ditto is that the transformation copies the opponent's stat stages as well (the move does, so I assume the ability works the same way). If you switch into something with +2 Speed, Ditto will get +2 Speed (as well as a Scarf), ensuring it will outspeed the opponent.
 
Wouldnt countering a ditto sweep be simple depending on your sweeper. Lets say ditto switches in to +6 Salamence, use weavile as a revenge killer. A weavile with focus sash pursuit and ice shard could kill the ditto.

Ditto attacks weavile
Weavile lives with 1 hp
Weavile uses Pursuit
Weavile uses ice shard

that either forces a switch because the ditto is scared of ice shard, which makes pursuit severly weaken it. Or ditto doesnt switch, making ice shard OHKO. So you would simply need a perfect counter to your sweepers in your team, which isnt hard because most teams (that i have played) only use 1 set up sweeper.
 
shadow0x0cloud said:
Wouldnt countering a ditto sweep be simple depending on your sweeper. Lets say ditto switches in to +6 Salamence, use weavile as a revenge killer. A weavile with focus sash pursuit and ice shard could kill the ditto.

Ditto attacks weavile
Weavile lives with 1 hp
Weavile uses Pursuit
Weavile uses ice shard

that either forces a switch because the ditto is scared of ice shard, which makes pursuit severly weaken it. Or ditto doesnt switch, making ice shard OHKO. So you would simply need a perfect counter to your sweepers in your team, which isnt hard because most teams (that i have played) only use 1 set up sweeper.
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Well, I think the proper response would be to switch. A Pursuit on the escape would hurt, no doubt, but at least Ditto is alive to come back in later. And considering his Scarf, coming in again is as good as ensuring that he gets at least one more move in before going down.
 
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