Chandelure

sturdy requires full hp right so entry hazards screw that strategy to hell

... but what id love to see is a bulky shanderaa(cm and acid armor) with shadow tag(still unsure of compatability of dw abilities) try to curse everything to death

(yess i realize the ineffectiveness of this strategy by comparison but he is the only ghost who can force an oponnent to be eaten up by curse)

plus anyone mention a tr shanderaa??? can get speed down to 148 which is pretty low
 
KokoaKiwi said:
As much as I want to deny that "guaranted kill" I must admit I can't. So, I can just focus in possible counters.
If shandy carries nitro charge instead of sub, sturdy pokemon can counter it easily. They can actually counter almost everything if played correctly. For example (regardless of tiers), Donphan and Aggron. Sturdy kicks in, they survive, and proceed to EQ. If for some odd reason Shanderaa has a focus sash and there's no sandstorm (I've never seen this happen), donphan can just Ice Shard. I'm also pretty sure Thick Fat snorlax can take a hit and counter with EQ, but I haven't done calcs. I'm sure a somewhat bulky heatran can survive a +6 shadow ball and just ohko back with Earth Power.
Click to expand...

As Elfam mentioned, entry hazards will take care of that problem. For flash fire shandera, if the sturdy pokemon come in on the switch, nitro charge could ruin that strategy if enough attack EVs are invested so that it does more than leftovers recovery. (but that may require more EVs than is worth it).

An interesting revenge killer for Shandera might actually be eccentric Ditto. If shadow tag shandera gets in on something, sets up, and kills it, then sending in a scarfed eccentric ditto suddenly turns all of that work setting up against you, as ditto will auto-transform, copying all of your stats (except HP) and boosts, and with a choice scarf it will outspeed you. This forces you to switch your shandera out if you don't want it to eat a shadow ball to the face, and you'd better have something that can take a hit to switch in otherwise you just basically just snatched defeat from the hands of victory.
 
yeah i keep forgetting how potent ditto is... with scarf he auto copies all of your stat boosts and with a scarf he bocomes faster than you... not to mention that he will probably then have higher hp than you. dittois going to stop a lot of sweeps this generation, but substitute pretty much still guarauntees that kill on ditto... still a stab super effective shadow ball will decimate anything.

sub seems like the safest option to get at least 2 kills

ditto is probably more of a dragon dancing pokemon without sub revenge killer, but at least ditto could switch out
 
RocketSurgery said:
An interesting revenge killer for Shandera might actually be eccentric Ditto. If shadow tag shandera gets in on something, sets up, and kills it, then sending in a scarfed eccentric ditto suddenly turns all of that work setting up against you, as ditto will auto-transform, copying all of your stats (except HP) and boosts, and with a choice scarf it will outspeed you. This forces you to switch your shandera out if you don't want it to eat a shadow ball to the face, and you'd better have something that can take a hit to switch in otherwise you just basically just snatched defeat from the hands of victory.
Click to expand...

I came.
 
From everything ive heard though battles now reveal all of your pokemon to your opponents meaning your opponents reaction to you using a shanderaa means they will refrain from chpoice attacks(if they are smart)... so most effective check is probably going to be on scizor... which means ttar will have fun. what i want to use shanderaa for is a check against sending out crazy amounts of bullet punches with scizor. as for ditto the only move i want ttar to know that can ohko would be a superpower(this would allow ditto to maybe kill ttar but then he becomes shanderaas bitch(course ditto is used to that)...(note must kill within 5 turns probably because ddanced struggles may still be deadly))

Of course this is all speculation but shanderaa is going to be ttars amigo... ttar sweeps become much easier except for against waters

if that isnt synergy i dont know what is
 
Actually, Shandera isn't them monster in this gen, it is weather teams. Shandera could be a counter to weather teams allowing you to come in and trap the pokemon with weather abilities. Hidden power fighting kills ttar, and probably politoad. shadow ball will do a lot to ninetails, and flamethrower would obviously kill abomasnow. (I haven't done the calcs, but I'm assuming)

So it is important this pokemon does not become uber, because if it does defeating weather teams will be harder.
 
ehh weather teams probably not going to be as viscous as you think... easily countered by other weather causers and teams are crippled without their weather starters but best way is to stall them out in old gen but with infistarters this becomes impossible so everyteam will have at least 1 weather starter but rain teams will be far outshadowed by sand because there is better pokemon with sand advantage than water. basically sandstorm teams become viscous because dont necessarily need weather, water and sun teams require a dedicated amount of weather.(shanderaa not best counter to ttar and hippowdon)

Keep in mind im just judging by dpp rain teams where i can handle with ease... not sure exactly how politoed will fair but ttar is useful as just starting weather and running
 
well the fact that you are revealed to have a shanderaa before the battle helps emensly rectify this... you know from the begining which attack you must refrain from on your choiced pokemon so falling into a trap will be very difficult to orchestrate. shanderaa is being blown out of proportions... he will be countered because he is that scary... his best asset is the changes he forces your opponent to make... using a dark steel? go ahead lock urself onto fighting attacks... same with ttar. this prevents your opponents strongest pokemon from exploiting your weakest points
 
Elfam said:
well the fact that you are revealed to have a shanderaa before the battle helps emensly rectify this... you know from the begining which attack you must refrain from on your choiced pokemon so falling into a trap will be very difficult to orchestrate. shanderaa is being blown out of proportions... he will be countered because he is that scary... his best asset is the changes he forces your opponent to make... using a dark steel? go ahead lock urself onto fighting attacks... same with ttar. this prevents your opponents strongest pokemon from exploiting your weakest points
Click to expand...

i thought it was confirmed that in actual 6v6 battles, your pokemon are kept secret, and only reavealed for random 3v3 wifi matches?
 
thewetmop said:
i thought it was confirmed that in actual 6v6 battles, your pokemon are kept secret, and only reavealed for random 3v3 wifi matches?
Click to expand...

i heard friend battles dont show your pokemon but nonfriend coded 6v6 wifi do... someone confirm or deny this?

this would have a great impact of the mind games available with shanderaa.... might want to use flashfire just for surprise factor plus still very effective on something this strong

also does nitro charge automatically raise your speed? cause that seems like it would be too good
 
Elfam said:
i heard friend battles dont show your pokemon but nonfriend coded 6v6 wifi do... someone confirm or deny this?

this would have a great impact of the mind games available with shanderaa.... might want to use flashfire just for surprise factor plus still very effective on something this strong

also does nitro charge automatically raise your speed? cause that seems like it would be too good
Click to expand...

I was sure that FC battles were 3v3 ONLY like in PBR.
 
Bombkirby said:
I was sure that FC battles were 3v3 ONLY like in PBR.
Click to expand...
i dont honestly care one way or the other about fc battles because not quite as fun (especially 3v3 that gives you not enough variety to accomplish a super synergetic team.) plus doubt shoddy mimics FC so real competitive play will involve showing teams right? which means id like a nitro charging flash fire shanderaa for unexpected switches (i firmly believe unique teams are going to thrive now because you will need a unique way using your pokemon if your opponent already knows your team then countering a normal moveset is a matter of thinking ahead)

And can anyone tell me if Nitro charge is like charge beam or if there is 100% odds of stat ups? (still rather agility shanderaa)
 
Elfam said:
i dont honestly care one way or the other about fc battles because not quite as fun (especially 3v3 that gives you not enough variety to accomplish a super synergetic team.) plus doubt shoddy mimics FC so real competitive play will involve showing teams right? which means id like a nitro charging flash fire shanderaa for unexpected switches (i firmly believe unique teams are going to thrive now because you will need a unique way using your pokemon if your opponent already knows your team then countering a normal moveset is a matter of thinking ahead)

And can anyone tell me if Nitro charge is like charge beam or if there is 100% odds of stat ups? (still rather agility shanderaa)
Click to expand...
Tested Nitro Charge. First use didn't raise anything. Pretty positive it's a % increase, not guaranteed.

And revealed teams have been concealed for every form of competitive play, be it 6v6 wi fi, link battles, friend battles, 3v3, etc. Hiding your team is simply not an option any more.
 
ShadesOfSolomon said:
And revealed teams have been concealed for every form of competitive play, be it 6v6 wi fi, link battles, friend battles, 3v3, etc. Hiding your team is simply not an option any more.
Click to expand...
huh? revealed teams have been concealed???? what is that suppose to mean exactly? but thank you so much for telling me that it isnt auto speed increase... forces me to want to trap and abuse stat ups when id definately prefer a flash fire boost and a nitro charge speed boost to killl common non scarf threats
 
Elfam said:
huh? revealed teams have been concealed???? what is that suppose to mean exactly? but thank you so much for telling me that it isnt auto speed increase... forces me to want to trap and abuse stat ups when id definately prefer a flash fire boost and a nitro charge speed boost to killl common non scarf threats
Click to expand...
I think he meant confirmed instead of concealed.
 
opponent has a scizor out
Shandera modest 252 Spatk 252 spe uses flamethrower
opponent switches in a TTar 0hp / 0 sp def
62-73 points of dmg to TTar
Shandera uses HP Fighting
244-288 points of dmg.
TTar uses Crunch shandera
242-288 points of damage.
So a TTar with no EVs in every stat can switch in on shandera take a flamethrow and a HP fighting survive with no berry help either, and then kill shandera with no atk investment at all.

but while shandera gets countered by TTar what i love the most about this oh so humble candle is that covers all of TTars major threats.
 
Anyone else feel like we've covered the big points with this guy? I'm juust asking because i want to starrt thinking best team mate options for this guy and i dont want to be getting off topic
 
Dogma said:
opponent has a scizor out
Shandera modest 252 Spatk 252 spe uses flamethrower
opponent switches in a TTar 0hp / 0 sp def
62-73 points of dmg to TTar
Shandera uses HP Fighting
244-288 points of dmg.
TTar uses Crunch shandera
242-288 points of damage.
So a TTar with no EVs in every stat can switch in on shandera take a flamethrow and a HP fighting survive with no berry help either, and then kill shandera with no atk investment at all.

but while shandera gets countered by TTar what i love the most about this oh so humble candle is that covers all of TTars major threats.
Click to expand...
biggest problem with this is shadow tag... no switches and uturn slower than shanderaa... scizor is raped by him
 
Elfam said:
biggest problem with this is shadow tag... no switches and uturn slower than shanderaa... scizor is raped by him
Click to expand...

lol i always forget something.
one of the main reasons i love shandera i forget about lol.
most of that situation is still quite true tho.
 
Dogma said:
lol i always forget something.
one of the main reasons i love shandera i forget about lol.
most of that situation is still quite true tho.
Click to expand...
Scizor's inability to switch out actually kinda wrecks the whole hypothetical, and even if it didn't, you're presuming no sub, no CMs, that the opponent won't predict the switch and lead with HP Fighting, etc.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top