I'm guessing that salamence will still have access to outrage even with overconfidence. There will most likely be a third game, and they'll add move tutors (like in emerald and platinum). He'll most likely just end up getting it that way.
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Salamence
- Thread starter Aerrow
- Start date
I highly doubt Overconfidence is going to make a real impact on the OU metagame since you cold figure out its set once it came in (Unless you can get breeding moves in Dream World)
Where it might see some more use is in Ubers considered since in there Salamence outspeeds quite a bit off the Metagame not counting scarfers and coul really appreciated the boost to deal a shitload of damage.
Where it might see some more use is in Ubers considered since in there Salamence outspeeds quite a bit off the Metagame not counting scarfers and coul really appreciated the boost to deal a shitload of damage.
Uhhh yeah, Salamence is good at killing things, so if Earthquake Spiral were available with Outrage, I would chose it over Intimidate every single time. Makes it way easier to get past those especially bulky walls like Suicune and Cressy (+2 Outrage OHKOs both).
EDIT: Aaah, my bad, I accidentally had it on +3. With +2 and a +Att nature, you can get through Cressy after rocks though.
EDIT: Aaah, my bad, I accidentally had it on +3. With +2 and a +Att nature, you can get through Cressy after rocks though.
It isn't 100% confirmed that it can't get Dragon Dance.
Yeah he won't ALWAYS get a kill, but he will get plenty of opportunities to get a kill even without Outrage. Draco Meteor is beastly, and he still has Earthquake/Fire Blast for those who resist dragon type moves. And Dragon Claw is not weak I don't know what you're thinking... sure it's not the amount of firepower that MENCE is used to putting out, but it's still pretty strong. I mean Gyarados wrecks shit with Waterfall, which is the same base power and he actually has lower attack.
I'm not saying Overconfidence is going to become used more than Intimidate -- that's outrageous, intimidate is one of the best abilities there is. I'm just saying I think it will have its uses, and the fact that OC Mence can't get Outrage isn't going to stop it from having its niche.
Why would Cresselia or Suicune be your SECOND switch into Dragon Dance Salamence.
Think boy.
Cresselia and Suicune are just examples, it can be any wall at all, or Steel types that try to revenge you during Outrage. If your first switch-in is something that takes Draco Meteor and I DD instead, you just missed your opportunity for Suicune and Swampert to ever get in safely.
We don't even know if Salamence gets Draco Meteor, do we?
The Draco Meteor tutor is apparently still in Gen 5, so it seems to be a safe assumption.
It gets Draco Meteor, but won't get overconfidence with Outrage nor with Dragon Dance.
UNLESS Dream abilities are breed-able which I HOPE they aren't.
UNLESS Dream abilities are breed-able which I HOPE they aren't.
It seems that Dream abilities are probably breedable, so it's a safe bet that it could get at least Dragon Dance. Probably not Outrage just yet, though.
Probably breed-able? Says who? Has it been confirmed?
Oh wow, I completely forgot Salamence learned Outrage as a tutor move. This is great, because now it definitely won't get Outrage with Overconfidence.
Oh wow, I completely forgot Salamence learned Outrage as a tutor move. This is great, because now it definitely won't get Outrage with Overconfidence.
well if the dream abilities are breedable, that'll be a bigger plus to this set for sure. That way it wont lose out on the possible damage it can achieve.
Personally, I see OC being really useful against some legendaries, allowing it to be even more distinguished then Rayquaza. It'll even allow it to be stronger in a OU game, but I get the feeling that I'll appreciate intimidate more in OU with all the monsterous attacks running around. A nice damper on their damage would be more then welcome as usual.
So if anything, Im thinking OC Mence will play well in Ubers/better against legendaries since intimidate had some perks in, but didn't really assist it too much with all the special fiends running a muck. Conversly, intimidate will be more welcome in OU/New 5th gen meta to help keep it's bulk, and lessen the attacking strength of other new pokes such as Ono, and the likes.
Personally, I see OC being really useful against some legendaries, allowing it to be even more distinguished then Rayquaza. It'll even allow it to be stronger in a OU game, but I get the feeling that I'll appreciate intimidate more in OU with all the monsterous attacks running around. A nice damper on their damage would be more then welcome as usual.
So if anything, Im thinking OC Mence will play well in Ubers/better against legendaries since intimidate had some perks in, but didn't really assist it too much with all the special fiends running a muck. Conversly, intimidate will be more welcome in OU/New 5th gen meta to help keep it's bulk, and lessen the attacking strength of other new pokes such as Ono, and the likes.
Someone here apparently tested it. Can't remember who. Certainly doesn't constitute confirmation, but it's still worth keeping in mind.
After some confirmations on IRC and glancing at a couple of posts on a couple of threads here, it seems that Dream World abilities are in fact breed-able. With this fact (hopefully) confirmed, I'm going to bump this thread to get the discussion on Salamence running again. Has it gotten m,ore useful after the changes Generation 5 brought it or has it gotten worse? You tell me.
I don't think there is any question that it got better. Even if Overconfidence turns out not to be as good as Intimidate because it becomes frailer, it still gives Salamence more versatility, which is always a positive.
Except it isn't +1 Dragon Claw vs. +0 Outrage. It's +2 Dragon Claw vs. +1 Outrage, since Salamence should already have a DD boost either way. +2 Dragon Claw has 160 BP while +1 Outrage has 180 BP, so Outrage is still the more powerful option. That said, Dragon Claw is probably the superior move in that situation, as it doesn't lock Salamence into it and therefore allows him to use his other moves, which are more powerful than with Intimidate, at least the physical ones.
The problem is that Salamence is worse off when getting to that point. He has to set up without the help of Intimidate, and then score a KO without Outrage. The sheer power of Outrage is usually what forces player to sacrifice something to bear Salamence, and Dragon Claw isn't quite as strong.
So, for now, Salamence is probably better off sticking with his old ability. He doesn't even have Overconfidence anyway, though, so it's kind of a moot point. We'll just have to see if he gets anything else useful in the meantime.
I think his point is you need a Dragon Dance to get a kill with Dragon Claw, but +0 Outrage = +1 Dragon Claw. You can just use Dragon Dance and have the same power with Outrage as Dragon Claw AFTER a kill and AFTER a Dragon Dance. Not really worth it imo, especially when you factor in Intimidate's utility.
Didn't I say all of that?
Well Overconfidence is deffinetly going to be a major update for Salamence.From what i see most people generally dont "Risk it" with him and just sacrifise something so the Check/Counter can come in unharmed.Now with this new Overconfidence Mence could Steamroll through the likes of Swampert,Hippowdon which could work as somewhat of a check before...The fact that you loose Intimidate is quite sad tho as it helps to set up in a lot of situations.This is ofcourse if Salamence does get Outrage.If it dsn't...Intimidate all the way =3.