Palkia (Update)

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calze6

I hope this is okay and right. I think that Palkia really needs some fixing.

Palkia Update/Revamp

http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/palkia

Overview

-Mention more about kyogre counter as well as the things it checks rather than speed tiering

[SET]
name: Choice Scarf
move 1: Spacial Rend / Draco Meteor
move 2: Outrage
move 3: Thunder
move 4: Surf / Fire Blast
item: Choice Scarf
nature: Hasty
evs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

Why this set deserves to be on-site:

-One of best revenge killers
-Great kyogre counter
-Changed slashes as Surf is only useful under rain, if used on sun team, fire blast is better
-Outrage is needed for that 100% acc, ability to certain KO latias and blissey
-Checks many common uber dragons

AC

-Discuss about slashes
-Discuss about blissey
-Mention about how it can be used on any teamfor kyogre counter
-Mention hydro pump and flamethrower

Teammates and Counters

-Blissey, ho-oh, groudon, wobbuffet can counter
-Lati@s, garchomp, dialga can check
-Pairs well with support groudon, steels etc.

[SET]
name: Mixed Attacker (Specially Based)
move 1: Spacial Rend
move 2: Outrage / Aqua Tail
move 3: Thunder
move 4: Surf / Fire Blast
item: Haban Berry / Lustrous Orb
nature: Hasty
evs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

Why this set deserves to be on-site:

-Great surprise for those who expect scarf set
-Explain use for kyogre counter
-Changed slashes as again, only surf is useful in rain whereas thunder is nearly always needed for palkia
-Added haban berry as primary option as it is capable of taking down garchomp, latias, latios etc for the revenge kill.
-Removed life orb as great deal of surprise used.

AC

-Discuss about slashes
-Discuss about advantages of haban berry
-Discuss about blissey
-Mention hydro pump and flamethrower

Teammates and Counters

-Similar to before except take out mentions of things that haban takes care of.

[SET]
name: Mixed Attacker (Physically Based)
move 1: Spacial Rend / Draco Meteor
move 2: Outrage
move 3: Fire Blast / Surf
move 4: Aqua Tail
item: Haban Berry / Lustrous Orb
nature: Hasty
evs: 4 SAtk / 252 Atk / 252 Spe

Why this set deserves to be on-site:

-Similar to set above, but can deal extra damage to blissey, tyranitar, etc with aqua tail.
-Makes more effective wallbreaker as can beat down forry lugia bliss combo as bliss struggles to get 2HKOed from set above
-Will make thunder AC mention as outrage does 71.1% - 83.6% to 4 / 0 / 0 Kyogre.
-Added Haban for same reasons as above.

AC

-Discuss about slashes
-Discuss about advantages of haban berry
-Discuss about blissey
-Discuss about wallbreaking ability
-Mention thunder, flamethrower, hydro pump.

Teammates and Counters

-Similar to before except take out mentions of things that haban takes care of.

[SET]
name: Choice Specs
move 1: Hydro Pump / Surf
move 2: Spacial Rend / Draco Meteor
move 3: Thunder
move 4: Fire Blast / Spacial Rend / Draco Meteor
item: Choice Specs
nature: Timid
evs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spe

Why this set deserves to be on-site:

-Removed Modest nature as it will fail to outrun important speeds such as other base 100s and base 95s.
-Put hydro pump as first slash as it can 2HKO bliss after SR.
-Gave thunder individual slash as can OHKO kyogre.
-Will mention that blissey is NOT a safe switch in for this set (how the hell is it different from kyogre?)

AC

-Can 2HKO bliss with Hydro pump
-Deals much more damage to things such as groudon
-OHKOs kyogre
-Discuss about slashes, mention flamethrower

Teammates and Counters

-Same/similar as before

[SET]
name: SubPunch
move 1: Substitute
move 2: Focus Punch
move 3: Spacial Rend
move 4: Surf / Thunder / Fire Blast
item: Expert Belt
nature: Hasty
evs: 100 Atk / 156 SAtk / 252 Spe

Why this set deserves to be on-site:

-Great wallbreaker as OHKOs calm blissey
-Checks switch ins with a sub.
-Considering a lefties mention with more atk EVs for extra durability.
-Changed thunder to 2nd slash as can 3HKO kyogre with focus punch and 2 spacial rends while surf helps to walbreak forry and lugia to an extent.

AC

-Mention lefties and lustrous orb
-Mention use of sub
-Discuss slashes

Teammates and Counters

- Same/simillar as before

[SET]
name: Choice Band
move 1: Outrage
move 2: Aqua Tail
move 3: Earthquake
move 4: Dragon Claw / Stone Edge
item: Expert Belt
nature: Jolly
evs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe

-Consider for retesting


[SET]
name: Bulk Up
move 1: Bulk Up
move 2: Aqua Tail
move 3: Outrage
move 4: Earthquake / Dragon Claw
item: Expert Belt
nature: Jolly
evs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe

- Add extra mention of wallbreaking ability.

[SET]
name: SubSalac
move 1: Substitute
move 2: Bulk Up
move 3: Outrage
move 4: Aqua Tail /Earthquake
item: Salac Berry
nature: Jolly
evs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe

-Retest. I sense garchomp inferiority.

Well that's it. I may add more.
 
Just remember to link to the Pokemon your making sets for/updating so its easier to cross reference with the current analysis ;). I'm not completely sure why this needs a full revamp, so a few examples of outdated stuff from the current sets would be good.

edit: this isn't a rejection, I just want to know why you think it needs a full revamp.

Destroy subsalac.
 
Well, firstly, the set's slashes should be changed as only surf is useful under the rain while fire blast is more useful otherwise. The set's descriptions are lacking as they fail to mention about what it does as a revenge killer and nearly totally about the important kyogre counter. The haban berry should be the primary option for reasons mentioned on OP.
 
calze6 said:
Well, firstly, the set's slashes should be changed as only surf is useful under the rain while fire blast is more useful otherwise. The set's descriptions are lacking as they fail to mention about what it does as a revenge killer and nearly totally about the important kyogre counter. The haban berry should be the primary option for reasons mentioned on OP.
Click to expand...

Well I guess those changes could be made, but it would be more of an update as opposed to a revamp; most of the sets still function the same way they have been forever, so changing everything may not be necessary.
 
Other than Haban Berry on the mixed sets and Surf slashing on the first, there doesn't seem much to change. Does this really need a full revamp, because it seems it could fit into the subjective changes thread.

PS: I was under the impression that part of the whole point of the Physical Mixed Attacker set is that with Lustrous Orb, the damage output for Spacial Rend mimics that of the Choice Scarfer. This would obviously not be the case if you used a Haban Berry.
 
Yeah Physical Mixed set needs Lustrous Orb, as bluffing a Scarf more effectively is the main reason to use it.

This does not need a revamp. Haban is an acceptable slash on the special mix set, but otherwise no changes really need to be made here. bojangles is right, this belongs in the subjective changes thread.
 
Well, since we are updating this a bit I would like to propose the removal of the SubSalac set.
-Priority is extremely common in Ubers
-The current set is easily phazed out by Groudon/Lugia
-Honestly the Speed Salac Berry provides isn't that impressive as unless your opponent misplays, you will have the Berry boost or a Sub and not both. Therefore, you still tie with the most common Scarfer, opposing Palkia
-It's pretty outclassed by Garchomp, although that isn't necessarily a reason to get rid of it, but still...
-SubSalac is a pretty bad strategy in general

Well that's my rant on the SubSalac. On the other hand, I would like to suggest Haban on the Bulk Up set, I've never used it, but unless Expert Belt provides you with significant KOs I don't see it being too useful. (I haven't run any calcs so it very well may...)
 
firecape said:
Well, since we are updating this a bit, I would like to propose the removal of the SubSalac set.
-Priority is extremely common in Ubers
-The current set is easily phazed out by Groudon/Lugia
-Honestly, the Speed Salac Berry provides isn't that impressive as, unless your opponent misplays, you will have the Berry boost or a Sub and not both. Therefore, you still tie with the most common Scarfer, opposing Palkia
-It's pretty outclassed by Garchomp, although that isn't necessarily a reason to get rid of it, but still...
-SubSalac is a pretty bad strategy in general

Well that's my rant on the SubSalac. On the other hand, I would like to suggest Haban on the Bulk Up set, I've never used it, but unless Expert Belt provides you with significant KOs I don't see it being too useful. (I haven't run any calcs so it very well may...)
Click to expand...
I support. A simple scarf chomp can easily swap while you don't have a sub, and kill you.
 
Tbh, I really don't care if it is a update or revamp. All I know is, that palkia needs a lot of fixing with the slashes, the haban additions are required. There should also be be more mention of palkia's role of kyogre counter. If it doesn't require that many changes, I'm fine with an update.

Btw, what is everyone's opinions about the haban berry as first slash?

So, has everyone agreed upon the sub salac removal?
 
calze6 said:
Tbh, I really don't care if it is a update or revamp. All I know is, that palkia needs a lot of fixing with the slashes, the haban additions are required. There should also be be more mention of palkia's role of kyogre counter. If it doesn't require that many changes, I'm fine with an update.

Btw, what is everyone's opinions about the haban berry as first slash?

So, has everyone agreed upon the sub salac removal?
Click to expand...
Haban should only be the first slash on the special set, since the whole point of both sets is to mimic rend's power to be like the scarf set, which 252 evs or the lustrous orb does. I wouldn't even mention it on the physical, as any intelligent player would know it's mixed due to spacial rend damage, rather than the physical attacks.
 
we discussed this on IRC. We agreed that Haban should be slashed in on the special mixed set and that SubSalc should be removed.

However, as this does not need a fuill revamp, there is no need to go any further. Locking.
 
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