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Genesect
- Thread starter Ad Terminum
- Start date
The scarf set is actually similar to a Pory-Z Scarf set, except it has much better defensive typing and has U-turn. This thing would be OU in Gen IV, but in the much more extreme metagame of V I'm not sure if that's even certain, especially since the U-turn won't be too amazing even with STAB if all it's EVs are in SpA and Speed.
I hope it stay Ou, too, but as far i seen it look like one of the strongest Finisher or Choicer in Gen 5.
It isnt slow and with HP Rock or Hp Water itll KO every FirePoke.
ANd after one ROck Polish its faster than every Scarfer if you just want to b faster. With only 60 Speed Evs youre faster than Scarf-Chomp, -Jira, -Gon, etc. and you can make him much faster.
ANd thanks to the perfeckt coverage you dont even need LO, you can just use Expert Belt and still have fantastic Bulk.
And you dont need to boost your Sp. Atk to more than a Lo Mence, because BoltBeam will have the same Power if it hits very effektive and Hp Water/ rock kill Fire-Mon.
Just say me 1 Pokes, which arent hit very effektive by BoltBeam+Hp Water, and has no 4X Weak (it could kill it thanks to Hp) and is bulky enough to survive two Attacks with is as Strong as Garchomps Earthquake (a normal effektive BoltBeam+Download will be as Strong) and then remind yourself thats its just a finisher.
ANd its may the best Outrage Counter thanks to bulk, Stel-Type and Ice beam
@P.S. Scizor was so strong because it dont need any speed to be a thread, have access to STAB-U-Turn and excellent Typ. Of course BP was a reason but it was strong anyway
It isnt slow and with HP Rock or Hp Water itll KO every FirePoke.
ANd after one ROck Polish its faster than every Scarfer if you just want to b faster. With only 60 Speed Evs youre faster than Scarf-Chomp, -Jira, -Gon, etc. and you can make him much faster.
ANd thanks to the perfeckt coverage you dont even need LO, you can just use Expert Belt and still have fantastic Bulk.
And you dont need to boost your Sp. Atk to more than a Lo Mence, because BoltBeam will have the same Power if it hits very effektive and Hp Water/ rock kill Fire-Mon.
Just say me 1 Pokes, which arent hit very effektive by BoltBeam+Hp Water, and has no 4X Weak (it could kill it thanks to Hp) and is bulky enough to survive two Attacks with is as Strong as Garchomps Earthquake (a normal effektive BoltBeam+Download will be as Strong) and then remind yourself thats its just a finisher.
ANd its may the best Outrage Counter thanks to bulk, Stel-Type and Ice beam
@P.S. Scizor was so strong because it dont need any speed to be a thread, have access to STAB-U-Turn and excellent Typ. Of course BP was a reason but it was strong anyway
I honestly think people are jumping the gun here. Genosect is top tier for sure, but not broken in the slightest. It's got it's fair share of counters (Heatran, Blissey, Nattorei~if lacking Flamethrower) and 99 speed is a bit slow in this high-speed metagame. His bulk isn't that impressive either. (71/95/95)
I remember around 60% with my mach punch Breloom.
He just "fits" in my opinion.
Edit: The set I like to abuse is Choice Scarf. It fixes his speed and he becomes a grade A revenge killer, and his coverage is RIDICULOUS.
I also like Rock Polish set, and even with 2 moves he hits most of the metagame.
I remember around 60% with my mach punch Breloom.
He just "fits" in my opinion.
Edit: The set I like to abuse is Choice Scarf. It fixes his speed and he becomes a grade A revenge killer, and his coverage is RIDICULOUS.
I also like Rock Polish set, and even with 2 moves he hits most of the metagame.
Set: Speedmonger
Genosect @ Expert Belt / Aqua Cassette
Ability: Download
Nature: Timid
Moveset:
1. Thunderbolt [Electric]
2. Ice Beam [Ice]
3. Rock Polish [Rock]
4. Hidden Power Water / Techno Buster [Water]
Reasons behind Movepool:
1 & 2: Offensively, BoltBeam provides excellent coverage. Not many Pokemon resist this.
3. Rock Polish boosts its Speed.
4. Hidden Power Water is for if you have Expert Belt. However, Aqua Cassette makes Techno Buster turn into a Water-type move. Either way, the move itself serves to counter its only weakness of Fire-types.
Genosect @ Expert Belt / Aqua Cassette
Ability: Download
Nature: Timid
Moveset:
1. Thunderbolt [Electric]
2. Ice Beam [Ice]
3. Rock Polish [Rock]
4. Hidden Power Water / Techno Buster [Water]
Reasons behind Movepool:
1 & 2: Offensively, BoltBeam provides excellent coverage. Not many Pokemon resist this.
3. Rock Polish boosts its Speed.
4. Hidden Power Water is for if you have Expert Belt. However, Aqua Cassette makes Techno Buster turn into a Water-type move. Either way, the move itself serves to counter its only weakness of Fire-types.
As i allready have written before, this set turns Genusekuto to a Monster.
Personally, I would use Expert Belt+ HP Water, bechause 15 Power isnt so much when you could boost every move 20% but for WIfi this will fit Great
Anyway, this set is monstrous. I would suggest, as i written before, 60 Speed to be faster than Scarf-Chomp, max Sp. Atk and 196 HP.
ANd with this Sprite hes definitly bulkie: without Lo or something an Admant Mach Punch from Breelom do ca: 124 from 331 Hp (not even a 3KO), with LO:
161 from 331 HP (with Rocks or SPikes a 2KO) and only with Band 184 from 331
And do you really want to use a Choiced Breelom? Or do you like with this Slow, Fragil OPoke to lose 10% every turn? WHat was the Set from your Breelom?
Ok, so eve one priority-user who can 2Ko him, and the Rest is not very effektive or to weak. ANd this priority user is easily KOt.
And if Revenche Kill with Priority dont work and and you cant outspeed it, how do you want to stop him?
Of course, Blissey, but what if Blissey are gone or you havent got any Blissey?
Of course theyre Ways to stop him, but its the fastest Poke after one Rockpolish, has 371+ 1 Stage Sp.Atk and perfekt coverage, and remind you, its just a cleaner, so itll come if the oppenent is weakenend and the counters are gone or weakened. Zhins thing will be terrible good, not OP but very good.
But some People said the same from the candle so well see...
Personally, I would use Expert Belt+ HP Water, bechause 15 Power isnt so much when you could boost every move 20% but for WIfi this will fit Great
Anyway, this set is monstrous. I would suggest, as i written before, 60 Speed to be faster than Scarf-Chomp, max Sp. Atk and 196 HP.
ANd with this Sprite hes definitly bulkie: without Lo or something an Admant Mach Punch from Breelom do ca: 124 from 331 Hp (not even a 3KO), with LO:
161 from 331 HP (with Rocks or SPikes a 2KO) and only with Band 184 from 331
And do you really want to use a Choiced Breelom? Or do you like with this Slow, Fragil OPoke to lose 10% every turn? WHat was the Set from your Breelom?
Ok, so eve one priority-user who can 2Ko him, and the Rest is not very effektive or to weak. ANd this priority user is easily KOt.
And if Revenche Kill with Priority dont work and and you cant outspeed it, how do you want to stop him?
Of course, Blissey, but what if Blissey are gone or you havent got any Blissey?
Of course theyre Ways to stop him, but its the fastest Poke after one Rockpolish, has 371+ 1 Stage Sp.Atk and perfekt coverage, and remind you, its just a cleaner, so itll come if the oppenent is weakenend and the counters are gone or weakened. Zhins thing will be terrible good, not OP but very good.
But some People said the same from the candle so well see...
Apparently, Team Plasma was restoring Genesect from a fossil and genetically modifying it to make it the ultimate Pokemon or something. N stopped the project because he felt that any Pokemon tampered with by science was no longer pure, but one of the scientists perservered anyway and created Genesect. The scientist in question tells you all this when you bring him a Genesect and he gives you the cartridges that change the type of Techno Buster. I think he only gives you two of them, based on your version, though.
Becausewith Hp Water youve got much better coverage. You can KO zhe Candle, Dory, Hihi, Blaziken, Urugamuso, Terakion etc. and kill Tran after stealth Rock Damage.
So i exspeckt, Hp Water is one of the best available
ANd Hp Rock is fine if you dont use BoltBeam, because you can kill Mence, Nite, Gyara, Urugamuso, etc.
Edit: Thanks Missigno, for the background-story. The story looks pretty cool, maybe this poke will be my new Fav :)
So i exspeckt, Hp Water is one of the best available
ANd Hp Rock is fine if you dont use BoltBeam, because you can kill Mence, Nite, Gyara, Urugamuso, etc.
Edit: Thanks Missigno, for the background-story. The story looks pretty cool, maybe this poke will be my new Fav :)
I hate to be point the obvious, but HP Ground hits all of those threats for Super effective too... How could miss this?!?
Don't make me sig you.
No... HP Rock is absolutely horrible. Bolt covers all those threats. Aside from Urugamuso, none of those pokemon are outright OHKOed by HP Rock.
You clearly haven't played gen 5, at all... and apparently don't grasp type coverage at all.
Yeah, youre right, exsceopt Urugamuso it hit them as hard, sorry, i must be tired^^
Of course, if you use BoltBeam or even one of the you dont really need this, but in Kombination with FLamethrower or Bug Buzz its still an option, because you can hit Mence , Gyara, zapdos, Cadndle, hihi and some other. But the BoltBeam+Hp Water/Ground would be better, i aggree.
BU is see a point, Hp Gropund is the better option, because you can hit Steels very effektive
Of course, if you use BoltBeam or even one of the you dont really need this, but in Kombination with FLamethrower or Bug Buzz its still an option, because you can hit Mence , Gyara, zapdos, Cadndle, hihi and some other. But the BoltBeam+Hp Water/Ground would be better, i aggree.
BU is see a point, Hp Gropund is the better option, because you can hit Steels very effektive
so, let me get this straight, turbo buster is outclassed by flamethrower, thunderbolt, and ice beam. so the only reasonable excuse to use it is as a 85 BP water move with only 5 PP. wow, someone got shafted when it comes to signature moves.
So I wrote the Genosect analysis a few days back...it's worth checking out if you dig this guy as much as I do!
http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=80135
The Rock Polish set is my favorite at the moment. I'm not a big fan of set-up sweepers generally speaking...I steered away from them in DP for the mostpart and will probably do the same in BW but Rock Polish Genosect doesn't have any of the problems that put me off other set-uppers. Those being:
- Difficulty setting up
- Vulnerability to priority
- Vulnerability to Scarfers.
Genosect has 9 resistances and an immunity so you'll always have opportunities to grab your boost. He resists Bullet Punch, Extremespeed, Ice Shard, Sucker Punch, Fake Out...you name it. And I realise that we play in a game where priority has become so powerful that even a resist doesn't neccesarily save you but even the mighty CB Scizor is averaging a paltry 31%. As for Scarfers, the spread I listed in the analysis outruns + Spe Choice Scarf Darkrai/Weavile/Swellow and you still have the option to pump it up even higher to beat the likes of Timid Scarf Mewtwo/Shaymin-S (probably worth doing if they're in the same metagame once things settle down). You can even go Timid to outrun Jolly Sand Throw Doryuuzu. Put simply; this thing is a real mother to revenge kill.
Now lets talk about the power. THE POWER. Check out these sample calcs (all assume Modest nature, a Download boost and Life Orb)
Bug Buzz vs 252/0 Swampert = 80% - 95% (8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock)
Bug Buzz vs 4/0 Garchomp = 94% - 111% (guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock)
Thunderbolt vs 252/0 Suicune = 92% - 108% (guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock)
Bug Buzz vs 252/0 Tyranitar in SS = 98% - 116% (guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock)
Thunderbolt vs 4/0 Shanderaa = 87% - 103% (guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock)
That is some freakish power especially considering he can hit like that off the bat. Most Pokemon would be pleased to hit that hard after a Nasty Plot but Genosect does it without wasting a turn. Great stuff!
As for the coverage, Bug Buzz/Flamethrower/Thunderbolt is the way to go. HP Water or Ground is a waste because Thunderbolt already OHKO's every common Fire type with the exception of Heatran who still loses 70ish%. Ice Beam only really helps against Zapdos and Dragonite (The other Dragons and Gliscor are OHKO'd by the relevant attack). Techno Buster is a joke.
edit: Forgot to mention that this guy is a death sentence for heavy offense teams. Show me a heavy offense team and I'll show you a team that Genosect has very little difficulty dismantling.
http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=80135
The Rock Polish set is my favorite at the moment. I'm not a big fan of set-up sweepers generally speaking...I steered away from them in DP for the mostpart and will probably do the same in BW but Rock Polish Genosect doesn't have any of the problems that put me off other set-uppers. Those being:
- Difficulty setting up
- Vulnerability to priority
- Vulnerability to Scarfers.
Genosect has 9 resistances and an immunity so you'll always have opportunities to grab your boost. He resists Bullet Punch, Extremespeed, Ice Shard, Sucker Punch, Fake Out...you name it. And I realise that we play in a game where priority has become so powerful that even a resist doesn't neccesarily save you but even the mighty CB Scizor is averaging a paltry 31%. As for Scarfers, the spread I listed in the analysis outruns + Spe Choice Scarf Darkrai/Weavile/Swellow and you still have the option to pump it up even higher to beat the likes of Timid Scarf Mewtwo/Shaymin-S (probably worth doing if they're in the same metagame once things settle down). You can even go Timid to outrun Jolly Sand Throw Doryuuzu. Put simply; this thing is a real mother to revenge kill.
Now lets talk about the power. THE POWER. Check out these sample calcs (all assume Modest nature, a Download boost and Life Orb)
Bug Buzz vs 252/0 Swampert = 80% - 95% (8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock)
Bug Buzz vs 4/0 Garchomp = 94% - 111% (guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock)
Thunderbolt vs 252/0 Suicune = 92% - 108% (guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock)
Bug Buzz vs 252/0 Tyranitar in SS = 98% - 116% (guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock)
Thunderbolt vs 4/0 Shanderaa = 87% - 103% (guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock)
That is some freakish power especially considering he can hit like that off the bat. Most Pokemon would be pleased to hit that hard after a Nasty Plot but Genosect does it without wasting a turn. Great stuff!
As for the coverage, Bug Buzz/Flamethrower/Thunderbolt is the way to go. HP Water or Ground is a waste because Thunderbolt already OHKO's every common Fire type with the exception of Heatran who still loses 70ish%. Ice Beam only really helps against Zapdos and Dragonite (The other Dragons and Gliscor are OHKO'd by the relevant attack). Techno Buster is a joke.
edit: Forgot to mention that this guy is a death sentence for heavy offense teams. Show me a heavy offense team and I'll show you a team that Genosect has very little difficulty dismantling.
First I have to say: Your analysis is very good^^
Then I really have to say, I agree ´nearly everything youd said, Geno is a scary Set-Up-Sweeper, with very good Movesets, etc. and especially the RP-Set loocks really good.
But Ive some possible Evs and Movesets (see the last pages) for the Rock-Polish-Set:
I dont think you need so much Speed, ca. 60 Speed Evs you can outspeed CS-Chomp, and everything slower. WIth this little investment you could give the Rest to HP (196 Evs) and with that youve got more Bulky than DD-Nite from Gen4!
ANd ive got an other possible Set:
Insekuta@ Expert Belt
196HP/ 60 Spe/ 252 Sp.Atk/
Modest
Download
- Rock Polish
- Ice Beam / Bug Buzz
- Thunderbolt
- HP Ground
With this Set youve got nearly perfect coverage about just everything exspect maybe Dusknoir and Swampert (Checks for your Set, too), and you dont lose 10% each turn of your life. and the pokes you written in your calcs are kiled by this Set, too
Your Set is may better, but it would be possible, too and give a lot more Staying-Power.
The calcs are very, very nice :)
Then I really have to say, I agree ´nearly everything youd said, Geno is a scary Set-Up-Sweeper, with very good Movesets, etc. and especially the RP-Set loocks really good.
But Ive some possible Evs and Movesets (see the last pages) for the Rock-Polish-Set:
I dont think you need so much Speed, ca. 60 Speed Evs you can outspeed CS-Chomp, and everything slower. WIth this little investment you could give the Rest to HP (196 Evs) and with that youve got more Bulky than DD-Nite from Gen4!
ANd ive got an other possible Set:
Insekuta@ Expert Belt
196HP/ 60 Spe/ 252 Sp.Atk/
Modest
Download
- Rock Polish
- Ice Beam / Bug Buzz
- Thunderbolt
- HP Ground
With this Set youve got nearly perfect coverage about just everything exspect maybe Dusknoir and Swampert (Checks for your Set, too), and you dont lose 10% each turn of your life. and the pokes you written in your calcs are kiled by this Set, too
Your Set is may better, but it would be possible, too and give a lot more Staying-Power.
The calcs are very, very nice :)
Bliss said:
Yes, you certainly do have the option to run a little less speed and focus on the bulk to make him even tougher to revenge kill but I would set the absolute minimum as 184 Spe EVs. This puts you at 280 Speed which lets you outrun Adamant Lucario before a Rock Polish. 95 base Def, Extremespeed resistance and Flamethrower makes Genosect into a really good offensive check for Lucario. Perhaps more importantly, 280 Spe also allows you to outrun Adamant Sand Throw Doryuuzu after a Rock Polish (and he's all the rage at the moment).
N00b Lyf3 said:
Getting a Download boost isn't all that hard. The prevalence of physical threats such as Garchomp and Doryuuzu force teams to lean more towards physically defensive Pokemon than specially defensive ones. Look at all the bulky waters, bulky grounds and Steels out there. But yes, the dependance on Download should always be taken into account when using Genosect.
Yeah, to outrun Dory is really a good Argument, is Geno able t survive a Earthquake after Sd? If that fit, it would be a good check to him, too.
But The problem with Luca and dory is, that you have to hope that theyre Adamant, and even if they need the Atk-Nature for some KOes, the ability to Outspeed and kill Geno would may be a reason to play them with +Speed-Nature.
Anyway with the Speed youre may right, it would make him usable even without a RP-Boost.
@Specs: The Specser is of course a very good Poke, but with his "troll" Speed hes not so fast, and i dont like to kill his good Type-Synergie with a choice-item, as long as you dont want to revenge kill.
Anyway, a great Poke, maybe my favourite Poke in Gen5^^
But The problem with Luca and dory is, that you have to hope that theyre Adamant, and even if they need the Atk-Nature for some KOes, the ability to Outspeed and kill Geno would may be a reason to play them with +Speed-Nature.
Anyway with the Speed youre may right, it would make him usable even without a RP-Boost.
@Specs: The Specser is of course a very good Poke, but with his "troll" Speed hes not so fast, and i dont like to kill his good Type-Synergie with a choice-item, as long as you dont want to revenge kill.
Anyway, a great Poke, maybe my favourite Poke in Gen5^^
Your analysis was pretty good.
But I'd like to ask. What would you do against Special Walls? You would have no physical attacks and you wouldn't get the Sp.Attack Boost.
But I'd like to ask. What would you do against Special Walls? You would have no physical attacks and you wouldn't get the Sp.Attack Boost.
Why, go get a Physical teammate and U-Turn out of there! That takes care of those Blisseys and Snorlaxes.
It's pretty obvious it has to U-Turn to SOMETHING that can take care of Special walls. Don't recommend Dugtrio because of Wish stalling and being frail in general. Wobb's okay.
Oh, and you could theoretically go with Explosion and use the Attack boost, but it got nerfed.
So what would you remove for U-turn?
Flame thrower? Rock Polish? Thunder Bolt? Bug Buzz?
Flame thrower? Rock Polish? Thunder Bolt? Bug Buzz?
Depends on what your team needs, and if the team's centralized around Genosect. I'd probably go with U-Turn because it still makes a great scout/Special attacker that actually survives things. Personal preference, really.
~Yadoking~ said:Lanturn says hi.
The rest of the OU metagame consisting of Physical Attackers say hi.
A good rule of thumb is 'don't switch your special attackers into special walls.' Yes, Blissey stops Rock Polish Genosect cold. He doesn't need to be able to beat everything - that's why you have 6 Pokemon on your team.
Don't use U-turn on Rock Polish Genosect. He can't afford to lose any coverage and, with RP, he's best used as a late game sweeper...not some hybrid mish mash of different roles.