Espeon

ungulateman said:
Sure, Espeon isn't tough, but that's an exaggeration. It can easily survive most neutral priority and takes resisted moves pretty damn well. I've seen it take less than 50% from my Roopushin's +1 Guts-boosted Mach Punch before.
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well dude thats a 40 base power move, I'm not surprised. It takes like 90% from hippowdon's minimum attack earthquake which means it is weak and anything it doesn't resist and has a decent attack stat will probably OHKO. 65 hp/60 def is worse than lucario ffs.
 
Ala said:
well dude thats a 40 base power move, I'm not surprised. It takes like 90% from hippowdon's minimum attack earthquake which means it is weak and anything it doesn't resist and has a decent attack stat will probably OHKO. 65 hp/60 def is worse than lucario ffs.
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Guts boost and +1 gives Mach Punch 90 BP, which is nearly as strong as Earthquake. Coming from a Ropushin, it did less than half to Espeon. Are you one-hundred percent sure of your calculations?
 
Nearly as strong as Earthquake maybe, but Espeon doesn't resist Earthquake. Saying Espeon can resist weak priority attacks isn't the same as saying it's bulky.
 
well actually STAB (since you're going by stab as well) Earthquake is 150 base power, which is a little bit more than mach punch even with a guts boost. I am very sure that Espeon takes a shitload of damage from Hippowdon because I've PLAYED IN THAT SITUATION. Do the math: EQ does around 85% being 150 bp (this is an estimate, i've seen it do 77% to 90%). You're forgetting that Mach Punch is resisted, in which case it becomes 45 base power. If you are so unsure of my calculations then prove me wrong.
 
Ala said:
well actually STAB (since you're going by stab as well) Earthquake is 150 base power, which is a little bit more than mach punch even with a guts boost. I am very sure that Espeon takes a shitload of damage from Hippowdon because I've PLAYED IN THAT SITUATION. Do the math: EQ does around 85% being 150 bp (this is an estimate, i've seen it do 77% to 90%). You're forgetting that Mach Punch is resisted, in which case it becomes 45 base power. If you are so unsure of my calculations then prove me wrong.
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And Mach Punch is also STAB to Ropushin. But as others have said, Mach Punch is resisted Priority which is the point of what ungulateman said.
 
Venator said:
And Mach Punch is also STAB to Ropushin. But as others have said, Mach Punch is resisted Priority which is the point of what ungulateman said.
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Ah so you don't have a point.

Anyway Espeon is obviously an incredibly useful pokemon for Offensive / Balanced teams that previously may have struggled with status / entry hazards / phasing, which a lot of them did.. EspyJump is probably the set with the most utility once Espeon's switched in and reflected the status move. It's up on the analysis site, but for those who don't know it's essentially just a Substitutue Baton Passer that typically trades power for bulk.

However it seems if Espeon is to become effective in OU I believe it may have to adopt a more attacking perspective so it is not rendered useless by threats such as Scizor or Tyranitar. Im thinking something like:

Espeon @ Leftovers
~Substitute
~Baton Pass
~Psycho Shock / Psychic
~Grass Knot / HP Fire
Timid
Magic Mirror
4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

Under Sandstorm Grass Knot does 51.5% - 60.8%, an impressive 2HKO, to 4 HP Tyranitar and heavy damage to Suicune and Hippowdon, whereas HP fire OHKO's Scizor, Forretress and Nattorei so the choice is dependant on your team. Psycho Shock may be rendered pointless however, it only does 33.2% - 39.2% to WishBliss which is the main target, and it will do even less to Pre-Evo Chansey. Psychic should probably be considered for its ability to OHKO most Roobushin, something which Psycho Shock cannot do.
 
I'm about to switch to a bulkier set. Prediction can be a coin flip on this thing, and bulk will really help. Thanks to priority taunt and magic mirror, people are starting to put stealth rock on heavy hitters like Tyranitar, Metagross and Heatran, and Espeon has trouble switching into these dudes. Dedicated spikers like Forry and Natty are going the way of the dodo, and the standard psycho shock/hp fire/grass knot set needs to adapt.

Not sure if dual screens or CM passing will be more effective.
 
I've been using a set of:

Espeon @ Leftovers
Timid - Magic Mirror
248 HP / 64 Def / 196 Spe
- Psychic
- Reflect
- Baton Pass
- Hidden Power Fire

to quite good success on a stall team. It's so great being able to come in on basically any attack from Forretress / Nattorei and render them basically useless... opposing entry hazards tend to be a huge threat to defensive teams that switch around a lot, and Espeon just nullifies it almost completely. I still pack a spinner, but it gets put under a lot less pressure with Espeon waiting in the wings. Espeon also packs a good deal of speed and helps deal with threatening Pokemon like Roobushin well.
 
I find that Espeon can't deal with Roobushin very well, at least my Careful Bulk Up set. Simply Payback'd if it switches in, as Psychic/Psycho Shock cannot OHKO.
 
That's a highly customized Roopushin though. Most Roopushin are Adamant and even with SpD EVs don't like to sit in on STAB Psychic.
 
Don't try to make Roobushin live anything that is SE, it's not invincible. Acknowledge that SE are SE and they hit very hard.
I've seen many people say "Oh I thought i could live it" when that move was SE, and the funny thing is, the move is usually STABed.
 
I like leading with Dual Screens Deoxys-S (since most people expect it to Spike/SR), and leaving Espeon in the wings until they bring their spiker out to bounce it back on their side.
 
I am going to love espeon even more then I already do

Imagine this:

turn 1:
you bring out a latios
they brings out a blissey

you switch to your espeon
blissey uses toxic and redirecting it back to-itself

this gives espeon a free turn to set up since blissey NEEDS to switch out to recover the toxic

turn 1:
you bring out a latios
they brings out a Deoxys-S

you switch to your espeon
Deoxys-S uses stealth rock and reflecting it so the stealth rock damages them

now Deo-S has to switch since it ususally has stealth rock, spikes, taunt and superpower

and since Superpower will not kill even with Atk EV's then you can set up calm mind or recover off the damage with morning sun
 
Stealth Rock doesn't damage stuff that it gets reflected back on unless it switches, and I'm pretty sure that will never happen until the turn after the thing has used SR. But yes, we know Magic Mirror has epick utility.
 
Not to mention...Blissey can't really touch Espeon with its normal options and will have to resort to Seismic Toss if Espeon is running Calm Mind, deflecting Special Attacks. My gripe about Calm Mind Magic Mirroring in general is the fact that faster Pokemon exist and might slow Espeon down a notch, especially ScarfTar. I wonder if Choice Scarf Tyranitar is even viable anymore, but it's going to take some Pursuit bait.
 
I like Espeon as a bulky Magic Mirror user, but it just sucks that its 130 SpAtk is put to waste in a way. Could specs work?

Espeon @ Choice Specs
4 HP/252 Sp Atk/252 Spe, Timid
Psychic
HP Fire/Ice
Grass Knot
Fuuuu

Espeon's movepool really sucks, I didn't realize. I was thinking Trick but it's a Gen IV tutor...

This whole post is rather unproductive.
 
Is yawn maybe a decent option on Espeon as it should reflect hazards when it comes in and then force alot of switches if someone doesnt want to lose a pokemon to sleep?
 
Here's something I want to know, does Magic Mirror reflect status when you have a Subtitute up? Or does it just absorb it? Subpassing could be really useful.
 
The Pokemon Pimp said:
I like Espeon as a bulky Magic Mirror user, but it just sucks that its 130 SpAtk is put to waste in a way. Could specs work?

Espeon @ Choice Specs
4 HP/252 Sp Atk/252 Spe, Timid
Psychic
HP Fire/Ice
Grass Knot
Fuuuu

Espeon's movepool really sucks, I didn't realize. I was thinking Trick but it's a Gen IV tutor...

This whole post is rather unproductive.
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I've played with a Specs Espeon, and while it is a little underwhelming, it pulls its own weight.

Espeon@Choice Specs
same EV's, Modest
Psycho Shock
HP Fire
Grass Knot
Shadow Baaaaaall

Whether Psycho Shock or Psychic is better is kind of iffy. HP Fire hits Nattorei/Forretress/Metagross and the like after you reflect Spikes/Stealth Rock, Grass Knot hits things like Swampert and Hippowdon, Shadow Ball hits ghosts and doesn't leave you completely helpless against Shandera (thank you team preview!).

I used it a lot to take out Roopushin back when I was too lazy to build a team that was not horrendously Roopushin weak, but of course it gets a lot less use in that area if you're not lazy like I am.

It's main use is still Magic Mirror though. I could've run nothing but HP Fire and Grass Knot 75% of the time and not noticed the difference, srsly.
 
I wish this post had more substance to it, but I have a question for those using Magic Mirror Espeon:

How well does Stall-oriented variants of this Espeon fare in reality against teams in general? I know that Smogon now has a policy for team-viewing and such, but Espeon having to rely on Hidden Power Fire for fending off Scizor and Nattorei and Skarmory seems a bit iffy to me since things like Heatran already does it as a teammate.

I know this requires a two-Pokemon combo, but I don't think Espeon likes doing multiple things at a time. Support and Offensive play suit Espeon if it's running Cheer Up / Baton Pass.
 
I've been trying out 252 HP/252 Def Bold Espeon and surprisingly, it actually works really well. Now he's not getting OHKOed or 2HKOed by opponents he's trying bounce shit back at. In fact, a lot of the things have trouble 3HKOing. Ie. Nattorei's Power Whip is only doing about 38% now instead of the massive amount it was doing before. Because he only has 256 Speed compared to 350 Speed, Gyro Ball isn't nearly as powerful either.

It's also useful since he can now take Pursuits pretty well, and he isn't instantly OHKOed by Roopushin's Payback either.

It's a strange spread for something as offensive as Espeon, but it actually works.
 
Bologo said:
I've been trying out 252 HP/252 Def Bold Espeon and surprisingly, it actually works really well. Now he's not getting OHKOed or 2HKOed by opponents he's trying bounce shit back at. In fact, a lot of the things have trouble 3HKOing. Ie. Nattorei's Power Whip is only doing about 38% now instead of the massive amount it was doing before. Because he only has 256 Speed compared to 350 Speed, Gyro Ball isn't nearly as powerful either.

It's also useful since he can now take Pursuits pretty well, and he isn't instantly OHKOed by Roopushin's Payback either.

It's a strange spread for something as offensive as Espeon, but it actually works.
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Well seeing as how this Gen, Espeon might be taking the bulky route (although it doesn't have the bulkiest defensive stats), this spread looks very well playable. HP Fire for Nattorei, as others have mentioned, and Psychic for dealing with Roopushin make Espeon more than just "usable". Good spread!
 
AccidentalGreed said:
I wish this post had more substance to it, but I have a question for those using Magic Mirror Espeon:

How well does Stall-oriented variants of this Espeon fare in reality against teams in general? I know that Smogon now has a policy for team-viewing and such, but Espeon having to rely on Hidden Power Fire for fending off Scizor and Nattorei and Skarmory seems a bit iffy to me since things like Heatran already does it as a teammate.

I know this requires a two-Pokemon combo, but I don't think Espeon likes doing multiple things at a time. Support and Offensive play suit Espeon if it's running Cheer Up / Baton Pass.
Click to expand...

Thing about using HP Fire on Espeon is you have to have a 30 Speed IV to do it. You therefore lose speedties against Base 110s like Gengar, other Espeon with Shadow Ball, Lati@s, etc. So there's no point in using Timid with max speed if you're going to use HP Fire.

My experience with Espeon is mixed. He's a fantastic team player, but he's super frail and has horrible coverage. I usually have to play him early against certain leads and it's really hard for him to survive much longer. Support wise he can throw up screens or CM/Sub Pass fairly well. I'm discovering it's better to go either full bulky support or full speedy sweeper with him, don't try to do both as it will be underwhelming.

I'm currently trying a fast and more bulky spread with CM, BP, Reflect and Psychic. We'll see how it goes.
 
If you want magic mirror, max speed and signal beam, you can use hidden power with 30 IVs in attack, defense and special defense.

Max speed hp fire doesn't exist, right?
 
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